Space is boiling over with energy.

Or should I say, it's just beginning to boil.

I'm thinking it's remnant energy from an imperfect symmetry-breaking in the very early evolution of the universe.

Our space is energetic, in that it's producing more space, which is energetic.... making our universe not a closed system, with this input that appears to be from "outside."

Of course, "boiling" may be a little overstating. It is an extremely small input per very large volume of space, imperceptible locally. But throughout the vast, vast stretches of the visible universe, it apparently adds up. With such a small residual effect locally, the symmetry breaking must have been almost perfect.

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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

What do you mean it's producing more space? Space is not being produced, it is inevitable. What would there be if there wasn't infinite space in every direction?

It is interesting how similar the idea of 'space producing space', and therefore energy is to Hoyles steady-state concept, where new galaxies pop up out of nowhere as the universe expands: This is also a theory in which space is turned into energy, or in this Hoyle hypothesis, mass.

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jwj

If you always believe what you already know, you can't learn anything - Liz

Yes, but space is quite different from matter. "Space" is also much easier to imagine coming out of "nowhere."

Since this input seems to come from "outside", but affects every point in space, it could be viewed as an added "dimension" to our universe, with its own axis and values. I don't see it as a particularly deep dimension....

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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

C'mon C-man,

I have a hard time believing you have never lain on your back and looked up at a night sky so clear and full of stars you were sure you could just fall off the world?

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"The beauty of that discussion of averages is that you don't have to be an expert in Apollo or in photography in order to see where this time study "analysis" breaks down. You just have to be, well...not an idiot." -JayUtah

Cougar

I also think the vacuum of space is "boiling" but not meaning hot just turbulent because of the electromagnetic ,gravitational and who knows what energy passing through it.
When the disturbance is enough to break off a droplet that becomes a particle ,neutral with no spin,positive one way spin,negative other way spin.The equivalent of a bubble would be an anti particle.

I suggest that this constantly stretched and released space time does not relax back to its original small size but is just a tiny bit larger,space is being made from the energy of the turbulence.Space is expanding for this reason.
Matter and antimatter destroy each other and nuclear decay make turbulence,which can make matter. They interconvert . E=MC^2.

I was afraid that part was a little unclear. I was talking about the added, invisible dimension that seems to supply this new energetic space -- as compared to the x-y-z dimensions we inhabit, which, as you say, are "deep" indeed.

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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

Just that. According to redshift measurements, most everything appears to be getting farther away from us. Because more space is being "injected"... everywhere.

Now let me ask what you mean.

There are lots of possibilities. A very large "hall of mirrors"?

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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

Sorry Cougar.

I understood, I was just being intentionally dense and took you out of context as a way to poke fun at you. You strike me as someone who doesn't get enough fun*. No offense.









*Definitions may vary. Use with caution. May cause smiling and a jovial feeling. Do not have fun while driving or operating heavy machinery. Cases of relaxation and a feeling of calm have been reported.

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"The beauty of that discussion of averages is that you don't have to be an expert in Apollo or in photography in order to see where this time study "analysis" breaks down. You just have to be, well...not an idiot." -JayUtah

I don't like either idea. Since 'more space' puts more distance between galaxies, the gravitational potential between them must increase, and that takes energy. But I will admit that the very 'stringyness' of galactic distributions is more or less consistent with expanding void volume - growing empty bubbles in space.

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jwj

If you always believe what you already know, you can't learn anything - Liz

Yeah. So?



That's what I'm saying. A tiny, tiny volume of (barely) energetic space is being added at every point in space throughout the universe. It's like it's coming out of another "dimension," and it can certainly be modeled as such, but I think it's as likely that it is just a quality of the space we inhabit, still "hot" after the goings on in the very early universe.

My "verbal model" addresses current expansion, which can only add to existing voids, not create them in the first place. For that, the bets are on an early period of hyper-rapid expansion (apparently from very energetic space), which expands the quantum fluctuations to the sizes of the temperature variations on the CMB. That lays the foundation for the subsequent gravitational conglomerations.

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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

I don't know why but I was thinking maybe someone hi-jacked your ID . A Cougar thread in ATM ... great. Congrats.Now I certainly agree with the part that everything appears to be moving way from us. In fact everything seems to be moving away from everything else for the most part, co-moving reference frames and all that. But why does space have to be being injected? Can't everything just be moving away from everything else in existing space?

Bogie

>Can't everything just be moving away from everything else in existing space?>

Not just moving,being pushed.Newly made space is the "dark energy" being looked for.
Conservation of energy?.Space is made from kinetic energy ,nuclear particles accelerating (such as in stars) stretching space then relaxing it back to almost the original size.(Almost, just a little larger.)

Are Undidly and Cougar one in the same?

You say galaxies (for example) are being pushed by new space that accounts for "dark energy". That could be. But if mass has initial moment imparted to it when it forms, then "dark energy" is not necessary to explain apparent separation momentum. The eventual formation of galaxies from matter formed early in the expansion would faithfully reflect the combined momentum of the matter that makes them up would it? No dark energy necessary.

Thank you. My pleasure.

Right, right.

Technically, yes, as a mathematical model, but you'd have to carefully hand-set the apparent recessional velocities of distant objects to be in perfect proportion to their distances. To say such a relation would be unlikely if all the matter was flying through existing space as if from an explosion, that would be a large understatement

But the whole arrangement is 'naturally' explained by the "expansion" of space. The solution falls out of this simple model.

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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

I don't know this Undidly dude.

I would avoid such language in my model.

Mostly right. But I'm going out on limbs that mainstream scientists may not want to climb so far out on. Like specifying the origin of this residual energy "glow." Picturing its essential mechanism....

Laws have their ranges.

Ha! Pretty imaginative. But then what's expanding the voids?

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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

I couldn’t agree more, but why do we need an exotic injection of new space when expansion of the primordial plasma will suffice?

No hand setting necessary and not an explosion if …
Can I refer to the initial “stuff” of our expanding observable universe as “plasma soup”?
No hand setting necessary if the initial expanding plasma soup was the source of the formation of matter.

If matter formed within an expanding plasma soup, the matter would have expansion momentum when it formed meaning that all matter that formed would be moving away from all other matter right from the start.

One of my college physics professors was actually an astrophysicist. He used to say pretty much the same thing.

He also told us that every so often in any given volume of space, a quark or a lepton would either pop into, or pop out of existance. He went on about this phenomenon for about five minutes, so I'm sure I heard him correctly.

If that's the case, and more are popping in than popping out, perhaps there wasn't actually a Big Bang and that the observed expansion of space might be explained by this...

I've always wondered why, if there was a Big Bang, all that mass together in a very small volume, it didn't just go FOOMP into the mother of all black holes.

Perhaps this might explain that.

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I am Mugs, of the Alien clan of Usa, Nordamerica, a Terran, of Sol.

Mine: "Perception isn't reality. It's merely an abstraction thereof, and quite often not a very good one at that."

Heinlein's: "Staying young requires the unceasing cultivation of the ability to unlearn old falsehoods." "Freedom begins when you tell Ms. Grundy to go fly a kite."