It is unfair of me to be jumping in on so many threads so I will try again here.

It is descriptive because ds^2=x^2+y^2 has not been well received. If one uses a formula like that to describe an enclosed body there is a non zero base to allow flow (think blood pressure). In this case the proposed flows are time and gravity which determine the shape and composition of space.

First density can not be a solid so the closest thing I can think of is a sponge. A sponge occupies only a portion of the volume it is in and the rest is structure ergo voids and cosmic web.

For flow there needs to be a return structure and "if" it is the proton then the difference of 10^119 orders of magnitude of vacuum energy would be sufficient to enable the gateway to be kept open. I dislike this word now, a wormhole from the inside 'may' look like a tube. The ends may bunch up or feather out depending on speed and direction. Depending on speed the tube may appear flattish in shape.

Flow in a body. A blood cell for instance travels along one side of an artery (inside) and continues forwards back along one side of a vein (inside). If the blood vessel had charge then there may be an alignment of positive blood cells one side of the artery and negative the other. This would continue into the vein maintaining charge and flowing back to the starting point via a different route so flow continues in one direction.

If and this is the big "structure if", if the blood cell is paired to an opposite charge blood cell on the other side of the artery or vein via a wormhole then each blood cell would have an asymmetry. The thing about wormholes is that one is able to see the gate but not the connection or the connection but not the gate.

If viewing is possible (and space is clear) across from artery to vein or vein to artery it is possible the blood cell could see where it has been. If the flow speeds up and slows down in time for the transition artery to vein then there may be an equal point in time where the blood cell sees itself future or past tense in the same frame. Meaning at certain points a common universal time frame for the blood cell at time future and time past.

For space insert cosmic web for artery and vein, proton for blood cell and time is measured relative only to the location of the proton (blood cell) for each point it is in the system. Dark energy is the result of slowing down in real time for the turn. Time for the proton is constant relative to the proton (perceived time).

Based on the size and twist of the universe it may be cycle to cycle or if on a greater helix from beginning to end. I do not intend to guess at that last set of possibilities. Either way it is centrally bound with no inner or outer and fully contained where the central in six dimensions acts as both inner and outer.

General relativity work just fine from a certain point upwards of the centre of the earth and fine to where the time through distance becomes noticeable but fine for planetary orbits and satellites.

Draw pictures ... it helps.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

I like the "spongy" idea .

It is interesting (to me anyway) that I just mentioned quantum foam on another thread. The possibility of quantum foam, including wormholes if you want to take it that far would seem to support some of the mechanics necessary to pull off your image of the sponge.

Thank you Bogie,
Sponge really is the most amazing stuff. I struggle with words and trying to explain simple ideas. The sponge has a structure and is the first form and that makes it the simplest.

Take the big bang or any other start condition and it works. There is a fireball, a massive fireball and it will have local hot and cold spots. A ball of energy is fluid and the first thing that happens in a turbulent fluid is that it forms whirlpools. This is before any matter is formed so all the talk of matter anti-matter annihilation is utter bunk. The whole lot is energy, pure energy and if there was matter anti-matter annihilation then that just forms energy.

So the first Occam step is a ball of energy.
The second Occam step is whirlpools.
The third Occam step is convection.
The forth Occam step is connection local cold areas to hot zones.

It really is that simple. My brother teaches teenagers. Maybe he can tell me a thing or two about how to explain the very simple to the very brilliant.

Trouble is I know what his answer will be:-

First use small words.
Second don't bother. It wastes your time and frustrates the teenager.
Same principle. Teenagers at least have to earn their certificates. Scientists already have certificates telling them they are brilliant and do not need to learn.

I really appreciate your support, it has been a slow and unrewarding process but there is the satisfaction of having tried. Best of luck with your efforts and who knows we might find someone who understands after all, cheers

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

So to recap for the first 130,000 years the initial state is an expanding energy fireball. Local cold spots merge as they occupy less space. As space is expanding this accelerates the primordial weather effect. A whirlpool of energy forms. This is the first structure. No wormholes yet.

Because we are speaking of the whole universe within the initial inflation the whirlpools are enormous comparatively. The power of the void still applies and the centre of the whirlpool seeks out other high energy sources to offset the low energy opening. It finds other whirlpool centres. A connection is made and there is an energy connection with two low end openings.

An energy connection with open ends is called a wormhole. Both ends are able to feed on the energy of the initial inflation. This causes the wormhole to grow. As the ends feed they cause local low areas of energy so the effect is self sustaining.

The process occurs many times throughout the initial inflation until there is only wormholes. These then feed on each other until all of the energy is in structure. This happens before even the first particles form.

The proton is a wormhole and a remnant of this initial process. All of space is connected in structure and collapsing. The only place the energy from the collapsing bubble of the universe can be absorbed is in the micro-structure of matter. This exists only in the proton.

Space does not compress as quickly as matter and from within where we are 'appears' to be expanding. Matter is absorbing the compression by heating and at critical points a chain reaction takes it to a higher stable form. The next stable form is Lambda. Light refreshes in a void due to decreasing distance travelled from the time of entering the void.

Outcomes:-
The sun gets hotter.
Gravity on matter bodies increase ... that is why such huge dinosaurs had such light bones and would not have required the estimated muscle mass to move around.
The galaxy has a top and bottom ... dust clouds form on one side only and are in ring structures.
The ring dust structures indicate the variation in time showing velocity densities as the material in the galaxy moves along the structure and the acceleration densities as the local structure also moves through space.

The enormous gravity of a galaxy is primarily a visual effect. The human mind is too primitive to grasp complex structure concepts. The perception of increased intelligence is an ego centric concept that is caused by shrinking brain size. This is characterised by increased nitpicking and inability to contemplate new concepts.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

I have been asked on anotherr forum why I believe it is possible to unite quantum mechanics and general relativity. This is about the best answer I have so far:-

Posted on BAUT as a courtesy,
Michael.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

Do you know what I do not like about defining a whole new reality. It is the implications. To experience two separated realities no matter how close means being in time violation.

This reality according only to the design I have proposed in coordinate time positions and point reality time positions is transitory. At some point violations have to work through. I don't have answers for you and I don't even know how to stop intelligent life from making some of the poor decisions they make. I sure hope someone does.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

What is the mechanism for that, I wonder?

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I am Mugs, of the Alien clan of Usa, Nordamerica, a Terran, of Sol.

Perception isn't reality. It's merely an abstraction thereof, and quite often not a very good one at that.

"Staying young requires the unceasing cultivation of the ability to unlearn old falsehoods." - Heinlein

"Freedom begins when you tell Ms. Grundy to go fly a kite." - Heinlein

Mugaliens. The mechanism for neutron decay involves a quark identity change. Any time any particle changes it's identity, that's a form of the weak interaction, so the W-boson is involved....(there are also other weak interactions).
The down quark flips to an up, and emits a W- simultaneously. The W- is short-lived and decays almost instantly to an electron-type antineutrino, and an electron. The "new" up quark is bound with the other up, and the remaining down, in the proton. The antineutrino escapes to join the ambient neutrino sea....(physicists use the word "neutrino" loosely sometimes to refer to either type...). The electron is captured by the proton to make monatomic protium.....which will join with another to make diatomic hydrogen, eventually.

pete

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A third rate theory forbids
A second rate theory explains after the fact
A first rate theory predicts...A. Lomonosov

By making the proton a wormhole it is automatically available for energy interchange. As quantum measures all other particles by the waveform it is conceivable that all other particles are just waveforms and that means discrete bundles of energy.

The analogy is live in a haunted house long enough and all the bumps become real. Well the quantum bumps have been accepted as real for the last eighty years and so would seem real enough to anyone not prepared to question them.

No I still have not worked out the interruption in the coordinate time line to my satisfaction but this real position reality is the one that is important to me.

Explaining time. Draw a dot either side of a ball and connect them by a line. Draw a second line at 90 degrees angle to the dot. When flattened to two D it approximates a square on a circle. The square has two rounded corners and two right angled corners and that is the flow of time forwards and back.

Time can not reverse over itself but it can turn 90 degree corners. It needs to because to separate the inner of the sphere from the outer two Klein shapes are required.

Time is like a water skier and the only reference point is the handle of the tow rope. Speed time up and the handle stays in the water skiers hands. Change direction and the skier follows. Time is regulated by the speed of the quantum jitter. All the clock synchronise relative to the local jitter and as does perception. It is not a rewind.

Reason it is important is that a wormhole is an energy conduit just as is being put in place in America and Europe. If a stable higher order wormhole forms the only important component of the earth it takes is energy. Cool the core in the northern hemisphere as that is where the two particle accelerators are and the viscosity could change. Unbalance the rotation of the core and it could tilt the world just as a severe ice age might.

In this case it is the chicken before the egg. Unbalance the rotation of the earth and it stops the ocean current heat exchange. The rest follows. Apocalypse.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

The second derivative of distance ds^s=x^2+y^2 is an equation of shape and thermal distribution. Just as the inflating balloon analogy is an overview of shape the equation ds^s=x^2+y^2 an elongated shape of thermal distribution like a football but full like a sponge in a fractal distribution.

The fractal approach means travelling in a tube and an x,y is needed to place us on one side due to the need to separate charge which would be conserved from the big bang.

The full equation B=0ds^-2+u(ds^-1)+s+vds+a/2ds^2
B is the big bang
0ds^-2 the start position of the entire universe
uds^-1 the initial velocity giving elongated shape
s the distance we register
vds the velocity we have travelling through the fractal structure
a/2ds^2 the acceleration which enables us to speed up, slow down and turn corners.

Using a fractal approach a worm hole would have a gate horizon into which we could see a fair way along it and it would get very bright to a point where the wormhole due to time distortion dragged space away faster than light could emerge and so simulate a much smaller event horizon.

That is why I use the proton as the basis of a wormhole where the diameter of the proton is the wormhole gate horizon. It has no black hole but simulates one at some point along its length and is no longer within our view due to dragging space in a tube around itself using x^2, y^2. This holds the tube structure of energy together.

For energy matter equivalence where energy is a wormhole actually negates the very need for matter. It means for every black hole there should be a new nebula in some visible region elsewhere in space. It means if you know where the nebula inflates into existence and the connection you could know the source of a galactic tsunami as the opening of the funnel started by the apparent black hole collapses as soon as the other end opens to form the tube.

The similarity to sunspots and coronal mass ejections is exactly the same. The power of a collapse and negation of an event horizon should be an immense burst of energy as the container holding the CME opens to form a tube and cause the collapse of the sunspot.

As the universe is a contained field of energy density around the stability of the proton a very stable structure and contained red shift is the slight increase in density as the bubble slowly contracts.

Matter or more correctly the proton worm hole is such a compressed structure of energy it reduces ever so slightly while space reduces more or to the observer in the universe based on protons space looks to expand.

Due to the compression of energy in protons gravity increases more in matter as density increases. Given a need to find a stable symmetry centrally the proton may have a change state if it becomes suitably energetic. The next known state from within our frame is lambda state. It may support life in a similar way to protons and could have even been the demise event for the dinosaurs 69 million years ago.

When the next change state happens naturally or induced by some species with a thumb, change occurs, life may face a severe time of re adapting. Something that we may soon see proven.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

Now it is billed as a salt pan collapse possibly
this BBC Huge hole swallows truck video footage.

I just hope that the conditions do not turn unnaturally cold or electrical because then that would some cause for alarm.

At last count Fermi-labs and Tevatron combined have produced a fireball and three unaccounted massive energy losses before the direction to stop reporting such events to reduce public tension were put in place.

I sure hope it is just a sink hole.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

We should know soon enough. Your aren't aka "Donut" are you? I'm not registered there so I couldn't check his profile for an Australian connection .

I go by my real name on most forums although I have used Sentient Marine as a reference to the intelligence of whales and a range of other aquatic life. On the catholic forum I_like_Mike because I figured someone should like me even if it is only me in case it was bad news but not as a forum name. Although among the list of things I have been called I would be fairly sure that "Donut" is on that list and at least is not the worst I've been called.

The good news about sink holes is that there are quite a few of them indicating a natural phenomena in which ever capacity they occur.

The notable thing is the depth and the not too many of them aspect which is good. The fact that this is the second in a year, the last being in Guatemala in 2007 although a broken sewerage line was attributed as the cause. It is the last on the page.

As a point of interest not all are natural, people have made some amazing excavations and my favorite is the blue hole called The Great Blue Hole, Belize. It has been there a very long time and is a popular dive site.

If anything finding these has been the best piece of news I have found in well over a year. Because it is in the US it will be studied in great detail and maybe a lot of useful info will come from it.

Right now I have something or nothing and I haven't a clue which but it must be good either way so I am off out to treat myself to something whether I deserve it or not, cheers
Michael.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

OK, enjoy.

And this thought from Emerson's "Self-Reliance" applies I think: I read the other day some verses written by an eminent painter which were original and not conventional. The soul always hears an admonition in such lines, let the subject be what it may. The sentiment they instil is of more value than any thought they may contain. To believe your own thought, to believe that what is true for you in your private heart is true for all men, — that is genius. Speak your latent conviction, and it shall be the universal sense; for the inmost in due time becomes the outmost,—— and our first thought is rendered back to us by the trumpets of the Last Judgment. Familiar as the voice of the mind is to each, the highest merit we ascribe to Moses, Plato, and Milton is, that they set at naught books and traditions, and spoke not what men but what they thought. A man should learn to detect and watch that gleam of light which flashes across his mind from within, more than the lustre of the firmament of bards and sages. Yet he dismisses without notice his thought, because it is his. In every work of genius we recognize our own rejected thoughts: they come back to us with a certain alienated majesty. Great works of art have no more affecting lesson for us than this. They teach us to abide by our spontaneous impression with good-humored inflexibility then most when the whole cry of voices is on the other side. Else, to-morrow a stranger will say with masterly good sense precisely what we have thought and felt all the time, and we shall be forced to take with shame our own opinion from another.

Thank you Bogie,

The whole process has been cause and effect if this then what and a few little leaps of logic.

First there is energy in space so it can be treated as a fluid of energy.
Then it could have shape so areas of higher and lower concentration.
Then it could connect which is an energy connection.
Then it would have walls between connections forming galaxies in tubes
Then that tube might be moving giving Lorentz compression of light to make it look flat
Then the galaxy might be bright in one inner direction and tapper off in the other outer direction
Then there could be local gravity wells for solar systems
Then if energy interacts it must interact with energy meaning energy structures
Then the proton being stable had to be that energy structure

So the worm hole is stable below a certain threshold but still shows huge energy
Now a worm hole if pushed beyond stability takes presumably only a fixed sum of earth

I figure if this sort of thing starts happening at the rate of one a second it will answer a few questions and bring an early halt before too much damage is caused.

It is fortunate that the gravity of the earth makes it too small to hold a gate of energy to make a worm hole open the other end. The compressed end will drift out safely because of the sun's gravity. So long as that is not when the hole forms so the problem is clear of earth only after time to swallow enough to pack the tip of the vortex to a high enough density.

The next thing is a slow moving mass may eventually get to the sun a it is 99.9% of mass in the system and it does have the mass and capacity to create momentary openings which are coronal mass ejections.

So using the cause and effect idea we may be in for a bumper year of sunspots as well as pit formations.

Much of this is speculation using the step by step process you have helped teach me. The only problem is it seems a bit destructive to have to wait for confirmation by damage done if the idea is sound.

A worm hole should be a lot easier to generate than a black hole and in an energy situation would try to resist a certain charge of opening but beyond a point have to continue to burst point for a sun sized mass and capture in a large enough many solar mass due to a stability point again.

It would have only been in the early universe that some of the primordial worm holes were so large galaxy size that they became stable again. That is why I thought of nebula as being a large bound system within a stable worm hole formed by a long term black hole. It would either have the balance go for formation of an exit meaning simultaneous burst or get large enough to open the gate horizon and travel back along the worm hole that created it to emerge as a collection of stars.

Ideas anyway but what I couldn't find in an energy environment was any way to have single unit mass objects or particles as how do you compress energy if it is not in a structure and how do you have a structure if it is not spread like a great thread somewhere. The amount of circular thinking it has taken to get this lot.

Then it gets back to the original problem how do I explain it to everyone else who believes in little particles and that they see what they see the way that it looks because they are as much a part of what it is as everything else is. It is just that without that step by step logic it is hard to see it differently.

One day somebody might understand us ... until then

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

The journey of a thousand miles begins with but a single step.

I figured if every day was a mile then I would be over half way by now. I am confident that the idea is good ... not brilliant because it is still rough needs a lot of work and is by no means complete. Good enough for a start or so I thought.

What I actually found is a disagreement on the positioning of the starting line and have not made the first mile due to endless back tracking. It is a good thing it's a hobby.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

A question on this step: "Then