|
| If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|||||||
| Register | FAQ | Members List | Calendar | Mark Forums Read |
![]() |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
||||||||
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|
||||
|
Quote:
The only thing "dinosauric" about this thread is the abundance of astrology and numerology, both of which should have gone extinct a long time ago. ![]()
__________________
A person's name, or a mark representing it, as signed personally or by deputy, as in subscribing a letter or other document. |
|
|||
|
Quote:
Group 1 1516.133; 1524.336; 1532.985; 1544.294; 1554.71; 1563.611; 1573.275; 1585.111; 1593.833; 1601.366; 1610; 1611.836; 1616.982; 1625.253; 1632.63; 1639.613; 1646.391; 1650.713; 1656.272; 1664.307; 1671.81; 1678.955; Group 2 1694.861; 1703.272; 1712.138; 1722.036; 1733.441; 1742.157; 1751.527; 1764.339; 1772.579; 1780.052; 1787.746; 1791.377; 1796.149; 1804.272; 1811.433; 1818.605; 1825.519; 1829.691; 1835.097; 1843.261; 1850.883; 1858.264; Group 3 1873.568; 1882.275; 1891.127; 1900.441; 1912.324; 1920.904; 1929.694; 1943.863; 1951.383; 1958.772; 1966.302; 1970.506; 1975.202; 1983.238; 1990.313; 1997.649; 2004.821; 2008.667; 2013.855; 2022.122; 2030.063; 2037.839; Part Group 4 2052.103; 2061.291; 2069.996; 2079.458; 2091.219; 2099.444; These are from JPL and by my calculation are the exact dates at which the SSB – Position of Sun distance is at maximum or minimum. You can check this. The moving average between these periods – precise and exact – shows slowing from group 1 to group 4 of 0.1 years from 178.82 to 178.92 with a clear close trend as shown here. A further point. http://www.perceptions.couk.com/imgs/spin3.gif is a mathematical empirical diagram of precession of the equinox. Hitherto the 1/12 division shown has been considered arbitrary, without astrophysical correlation. My demonstration here that the SSB period is precisely 1/12 of the precessional sign period of 2147 years provides a quantitative basis to study this diagram as an empirical model of the structure of time. |
|
||||
|
Quote:
Quote:
Throwing around terms like "exact", "precisely", etc., may impress those who aren't that well-versed in science and statistics, but for those of us who are, well, better luck next time. It might help to revisit the scientific method. Determining a conclusion and then making sure the data support that conclusion isn't how it works. Just the opposite in fact. Any experiment where the data exactly match the preconcluded results indicates that the data have been "massaged" a bit here and there. On the other hand the scientific method isn't used by practitioners of astrology and numerology for obvious reasons.
__________________
A person's name, or a mark representing it, as signed personally or by deputy, as in subscribing a letter or other document. |
|
||||
|
Quote:
There's no telling your SSB cycle would hold up at scales over hundreds of thousands of years. Maybe try using GravitySimulator to simulate the Solar System both backwards and forwards in time. I think there's a way in the program to keep track of the barycenter. But the following is probably a mirage: Quote:
Real resonances require a causal story to be told. I guess the bottom-line question you're looking at is whether the precession of the Earth's axis is in a 1:144 resonance with this barely noticeable cycle nested within cycles of the SSB (solar system barycenter). But why should this be? By your own account account, the length of the 179 year cycle is changing around a lot even at human time scales, so it's difficult to see how this could govern the precession of the Earth's axis or vice versa. Besides, the precession, as far as I know, has a ready explanation in that the physics of tops and rotating planets is well understood, and doesn't require appeal to outside forces to explain precession of spinning axes. Sometimes coincidences do in fact happen. Take, for example, the average geometric progression between consecutive planetary orbits at 55 Cancri are within 0.25% of the natural logarithm base e. Yet this remarkable agreement is apparently a mere coincidence.
__________________
Fitting a three-parameter curve of uncertain form to ten points with three exceptions certainly brings one to the far edge of the known world. -- Bradley Ephron |
|
|||
|
I have been studying the solar system barycentre data from the
5 day interval SSB ephemeris for the full 6000 years covered by the NASA JPL Horizons Online Ephemeris. It is a 30MB text file compressed as a 12MB ZIP file. I extracted to excel with 438309 dates showing Longitude, Radius (Sun=1), Angular Momentum and Torque for each. For my purpose I am just using the radius to analyse wave trends in the distance from the centre of mass to the position of the sun. From this data I have charted the 179 year wave pattern from 3000BC to 0 so far. There is a clearly defined wave shape with 178.9 year average frequency throughout. My calculations for the period 2000BC to 1000BC find an average period between similar wave turning points of 178.99124 years, slightly longer than the apparent long term average. In this thousand year subset I found about 136 instances of this wave length in the SSB cycle. These instances have standard deviation 0.44 years and one third have frequency >178.9 and <179.1. This pattern appears to be a major constant of the solar system, in that the cycles of the centre of mass provide an integrated gravitational picture of the shape of the solar system overall. Charting the data, many simple patterns leap out, for example in repeated patterns slightly shorter or longer than average wave length but with clear defined ~179 year periodicity. My underlying question here is the effect of the SSB cycle on earth. As I have noted previously, and as is confirmed in study of the 6000 year JPL series, this SSB wave structure corresponds precisely to what is known as ‘the houses of the age,’ ie the 1/12 x 1/12 division of the 25765 year long precession of the equinox. It is hard, for me at least, to imagine that life on earth could have evolved in the midst of this intricate gravitational pattern and not reflect it in any way. |
|
||||
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Fitting a three-parameter curve of uncertain form to ten points with three exceptions certainly brings one to the far edge of the known world. -- Bradley Ephron Last edited by Warren Platts : 26-April-2008 at 01:43 PM. |
|
||||
|
Quote:
It clearly shows you have no idea about math and significance. And the page you link to is NOT JPL, it is a EU/PU promoting website, brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
__________________
************************************************** ************************* Optimism does not change the laws of physics. (T'Pol) A good scientist has freed himself of concepts and keeps his mind open to what is. (Dao De Jing 27) ************************************************** ************************* Martin ( http://www.geocities.com/DrMartinV ) |
|
|||
|
Quote:
![]() It was hard for me to accept the fact that when working with planet alignments and correlations that until I had some real physics behind the causes it was just astrology. (still looking....) Jim |
|
||||
|
Quote:
![]() But is it a real resonance? At first, scientists were in that phase that Robert's apparently in--it's just too good to not be true. Then people did some calculations and found out that the relation is just a little too far off the ideal resonance for Venus to be librating. But then some Chinese scientists did some more calculations and suggested that if you take into account the torque exerted by Venus' prevailing winds, then it might very well be librating around the ideal. And there the matter stands. So who know? But at least there's a scientific story to be told. It may very well be a false story, but at least it's there. But for 99.9% of astrology, there just isn't any scientific story to be told at all.
__________________
Fitting a three-parameter curve of uncertain form to ten points with three exceptions certainly brings one to the far edge of the known world. -- Bradley Ephron |
|
|||
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
|
|||
|
Error in the JPL SSB data is not significant for the use I am making of it. Are you suggesting the data I have given is inaccurate? Your aspersions on the webpage host are ad hominem unless you claim the data is untrustworthy.
|
|
|||
|
Quote:
For the record, the plasmaresources.com domain name is owned by my brother David who has generously allowed me to upload stuff in a directory there that I do not otherwise have server space for, and yes his website does promote EU/PU ideas, however that fact has no relevance whatsoever to this thread. The file linked to is a 6000 yr ephemeris of selected Solar System Barycentre (SSB) quantities based on NASA JPL Horizons Online Ephemeris results that I put together using a simple program I wrote in THINK Pascal (TP) that loads the JPL results and calculates things such as angular momentum and torque (both in the ecliptic plane) and dumps selected quantities as tab separated columns in a plain text file. The formulae used for the calculated values in my simple program are approximations that are good enough for an exploratory look at the SSB data, while the TP 80-bit maths means that any numerical errors introduced are far smaller than JPL errors and those in the approximation formulae used so can be safely ignored, but both the formulae and the method used could probably be improved on for precision work. Further details available on request. Any errors beyond what JPL has built in to their ephemeris are due to my having made mistakes somewhere, so use it at your own discretion - and if anyone finds any mistakes, please let me know and I will see what I can do to fix it. My interest here is in the complex motion of the Solar System Barycentre (SSB), which shows some remarkable periodicities on various timescales, including ~179 years. To illustrate, here is some graphs of the SSB plotted once a year for the full 6000 year span of the ephemeris showing what appears to be various periodicities in the envelope patterns: ![]() ![]() ![]() This graph shows the SSB ecliptic plane Angular Momentum (AM) plotted once a month from 1620 to 2180 aligned as 3 overlapping segments to show the 179y cycle most easily discerned from spikes where AM briefly falls through zero identified by the red arrows: ![]() Note both the similarity of the 3 aligned cycle curves and the subtle differences between each of them showing slow phase evolution over much longer periods.
__________________
Carl Smith The land of Oz |
|
|||
|
Quote:
|