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Old 20-April-2008, 03:41 AM
Robert Tulip Robert Tulip is offline
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Default 178.867624

A local cosmological near-constant number imbedded in the structure of the solar system forms a 178.867624:1 ratio between the main rhythm of the solar system centre of mass and the year on earth. Centre of Mass against Position of the Sun (COMPOS) charts 600 years of solar system centre of mass data. The number 178.867624 is derived by plotting all main turning points of this chart and averaging their period. This constant describes a main structure of time, a periodic cycle of the solar system resulting from the interaction of Sun, Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune. Uranus, as the fourth big planet, is slightly out of alignment with this basic underlying cycle, and produces the secondary wiggle moving backwards against the 179 year JSN permanent cycle. Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune also slowly drift away from exact harmonic relations, but the main SSB 178.9 year cycle continues against these longer wave patterns.
Of interest for sunspot prediction dates, Jupiter-Saturn SSB Sunspot cycle posted by JimP at Jupiter influencing sunspots shows that a specific pattern of sunspots were aligned directly with the Jupiter-Saturn cycle in ~1893-1913 (my ‘cycle 3’) and also in the corresponding period 179 years before at ~1710-1730 (my ‘cycle 2’). I believe this pattern is of interest, as my COMPOS chart clearly shows the planets produced this same pattern at SSB cycles 1 (~1535-55) and 4 ( ~2070-90). Cycles 2 and 3 are those for which historical sunspot data exist.
As well, 178.867624 is 1/144th of the earth’s precessional period of ~25764 years. Ray Tomes has noted that harmonic cycles of period 2 and 3 are common in nature, making combined cycles of period 12 also common. The combined period of 3x4=12 SSB cycles closely matches 1/12 of the precession. This is an example of harmonic resonance in the solar system, entraining the precession period against the solar system barycentre.
My chart showing 178.867624 as a near-constant was first posted in response to Ray Tomes’ thread Explaining Planetary Alignments Relationship to the Sunspot Cycle . As Ray notes it presents a separate ATM idea.

Last edited by Robert Tulip : 04-May-2008 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 20-April-2008, 03:47 AM
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Default Maunder Minimum?

So where does the Maunder Minimum fit into all this? Why was there a period of about 70 years (1645-1715) where there were practically no sunspots and no aurorae while the Sun continued to loop about the Solar System barycenter?

What we have here is yet another astrology and numerology thread. Move on. Nothing to see here.
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Old 20-April-2008, 05:47 AM
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So where does the Maunder Minimum fit into all this? Why was there a period of about 70 years (1645-1715) where there were practically no sunspots and no aurorae while the Sun continued to loop about the Solar System barycenter? What we have here is yet another astrology and numerology thread. Move on. Nothing to see here.
These cycles continued during the Maunder Minimum. Your comment that this is numerology is like saying that Planck's Constant is numerology.
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Old 20-April-2008, 08:37 AM
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Is there something significant about 178.867624? If it was a 180:1 I'd be impressed but 178.867624 doesn't seem in any way significant.
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Old 20-April-2008, 09:48 AM
Robert Tulip Robert Tulip is offline
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Is there something significant about 178.867624? If it was a 180:1 I'd be impressed but 178.867624 doesn't seem in any way significant.
  1. It is the pulse of the sun. Combining all the long term cycles of the sun, 178.867624 is an average for the current pulse over 3.35 cycles from 1500 to 2099.
  2. 178.867624 is in close harmonic phase with the precessional cycle of the earth. 178.867624 is less than 180 years in the same proportion, less cyclic variance of ~0.0274%, as the precessional great year period of 25764 is less than 25920 years.
  3. If my calculation of the current seven year error in cyclic variance is correct (25764-25757 = 7; 25757=178.867624*144), it will take ~94 million years before the SSB/precession correlation error completes one cycle, assuming the current value for the constant has long term cosmic stability.
  4. I suspect that the 19.85 year Jupiter-Saturn SSB shapes marked as 1,2,3 and 4 in my chart are actually following the Jupiter-Saturn cycle of 178.7 years, and so are drifting against the solar pulse at a rate of one cycle per ~190,865 years. This calculation is easy for astronomers to check.
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Old 20-April-2008, 10:04 AM
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That's very interesting

I'll take you out for a Dutch Treat.
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Old 20-April-2008, 11:53 AM
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Where did all of those significant digits come from? In physics, your answer can only be as precise as the least precise of the numbers used to obtain it.

And remember, precision is not the same as accuracy.

Fred
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Old 20-April-2008, 06:24 PM
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Accurate to 6 decimal places? can you show us your calculations please?

This is like in Star Trek when spock is always over precise in his 'approximate times. 'In approximately fourteen point six five seconds captain'
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Old 20-April-2008, 06:39 PM
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As long as you are carrying your magic number to nine significant figures, don't forget to allow for the perturbations right here on Planet Earth that could perturb its motions. A few examples:

Butterflies, including the migratory monarch butterflies.

Recurring boom-bust cycles of lemmings in Arctic regions.

The sudden redistribution of water when millions of toilets were flushed going into halftime at the Super Bowl.

Not to mention big shakes such as sporadic major earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.

For all we know, the cumulative effect of these actions could alter our planet's spin and precession rates slightly, mucking up your calculations.
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Old 20-April-2008, 06:41 PM
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All thosde ships and aircraft moving around the planet. Millions of people moving into London every morning in the Rush hour etc.
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Old 20-April-2008, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: 178.86762420581127483901324987654321

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Tulip View Post
These cycles continued during the Maunder Minimum. Your comment that this is numerology is like saying that Planck's Constant is numerology.
Nice try at comparing good apples (Planck's Constant) to rotten oranges.
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Old 20-April-2008, 08:17 PM
Robert Tulip Robert Tulip is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowhere Man View Post
Where did all of those significant digits come from? In physics, your answer can only be as precise as the least precise of the numbers used to obtain it. And remember, precision is not the same as accuracy. Fred
As I explained, the solar pulse is a near-constant. The nine digits given are derived as the average SSB pulse for the 73 main stationary points from 1500-2099 (defined as period between similar wave peaks and troughs). These pulse points are almost all within one year of my magic number, with a quarter of them within 0.1 years. The source is NASA JPL ephemeris, which I understand is very precise and accurate for this dataset. I will analyse the data to quantify the rate of change in this number since 1500.

Last edited by Robert Tulip : 20-April-2008 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 20-April-2008, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Tulip View Post
As well, 178.867624 is 1/144th of the earth’s precessional period of ~25764 years. Ray Tomes has noted that harmonic cycles of period 2 and 3 are common in nature, making combined cycles of period 12 also common.
Cycles of periods of 2 and 3 would make combined cycles of 6 common, not 12.

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Originally Posted by Robert Tulip View Post
The combined period of 3x4=12 SSB cycles
Why 3X4? You said Tomes noted cycles of 2 and 3 are common, not cycles of 2 cycles of 2. Which is what you need to get the four in there.


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closely matches 1/12 of the precession.
Ahhhh, this should be a doh! moment. IF your 178.GIGO is 1/144 of the earth's precession, shouldn't 12 cycles closely match 1/12 of the precession? After all, 12 X 1/144 IS 1/12. Nothing miraculous here.

Quote:
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This is an example of harmonic resonance in the solar system, entraining the precession period against the solar system barycentre.
Actually, this whole post is nothing more than numerological hogwash. As Celestial Mechanic so elegantly put it:

What we have here is yet another astrology and numerology thread. Move on. Nothing to see here.
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Old 21-April-2008, 12:17 AM
Robert Tulip Robert Tulip is offline
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Here is a picture showing the change in the solar pulse since 1590, a decrease of rate by 0.05 years per 179 year cycle. It shows the 2010 value of 178.925 is in far more precise alignment with the precessional figure than the 600 year average (178.86) given in the opening post. Rather than the 7-8 year error suggested by my initial calculations, this gives an error of 0.3 years (0.001%) of 144 SSB cycles against a precession period of 25765 years. The hypothesis of a connection between the SSB and precession can easily be tested if data is available for the change in rate of precession.


[Massive image removed by moderator - see attachment if you're interested.]
Attached Images
File Type: gif Solar Pulse 1590-2010.GIF (12.7 KB, 39 views)
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Old 21-April-2008, 02:38 AM
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Default Re: 178.86762420581127483901324987654321

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Here is a picture showing the change in the solar pulse since 1590, a decrease of rate by 0.05 years per 179 year cycle....
Bigger does not automatically equate to more accurate.

179 year cycle? What 179 year cycle?
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Old 21-April-2008, 03:04 AM
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Default Re: 178.86762420581127483901324987654321

Actually if one inverts the chart and revises the x and y units (x = time, y = $/gallon) it looks like this:

Gas prices.jpg
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Last edited by Maksutov : 25-April-2008 at 07:07 AM. Reason: change image source
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Old 21-April-2008, 03:08 AM
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Default Re: 178.86762420581127483901324987654321

BTW, Robert, remember this post from Jim?
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Old 21-April-2008, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksutov View Post
BTW, Robert, remember this post from Jim?
Obviously not.
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Old 21-April-2008, 03:42 AM
Robert Tulip Robert Tulip is offline
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Originally Posted by Maksutov View Post
What 179 year cycle?
The date points for the 179 year cycle are as follows

Group 1
1516.133; 1524.336; 1532.985; 1544.294; 1554.71; 1563.611; 1573.275; 1585.111; 1593.833; 1601.366; 1610; 1611.836; 1616.982; 1625.253; 1632.63; 1639.613; 1646.391; 1650.713; 1656.272; 1664.307; 1671.81; 1678.955;

Group 2
1694.861; 1703.272; 1712.138; 1722.036; 1733.441; 1742.157; 1751.527; 1764.339; 1772.579; 1780.052; 1787.746; 1791.377; 1796.149; 1804.272; 1811.433; 1818.605; 1825.519; 1829.691; 1835.097; 1843.261; 1850.883; 1858.264;

Group 3
1873.568; 1882.275; 1891.127; 1900.441; 1912.324; 1920.904; 1929.694; 1943.863; 1951.383; 1958.772; 1966.302; 1970.506; 1975.202; 1983.238; 1990.313; 1997.649; 2004.821; 2008.667; 2013.855; 2022.122; 2030.063; 2037.839;

Part Group 4
2052.103; 2061.291; 2069.996; 2079.458; 2091.219; 2099.444;

These are the exact dates at which the SSB – Position of Sun distance is at maximum or minimum. Looking at my opening post chart it can readily be seen that the shape of the curve follows a 179 year pattern by comparing it at 1516, 1694, 1873 and 2052 or any other 3 or 4 dates from the same relative positions in the above groups. My next chart shows that the speed of these cycles is slowing with a steady clear trend of about 0.05 years per cycle. For example, the average period between similar station points for Groups 1-2 was 178.82. This has since slowed down so the average period between station points for Groups 3-4 is 178.92, which as I pointed out = 25765/144 to an error of 0.001%.
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Old 21-April-2008, 04:02 AM
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Default Re: 178.86762420581127483901324987654321

You've got twelve starting data points and somehow you've managed to transform those into a number that goes to 6 significant figures with an 0.001 % error factor (based on a 99/99 confidence interval I take it)?

See me after class, please.
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