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Old 23-April-2008, 09:06 PM
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Default if a photon of light has 0 rest mass but it has momentum then ..

if a photon of light has 0 rest mass but it has momentum then ...

Can there be a transition from wave to particle as its space-time is compressed.

Does lights momentum change when in a gravitational field?
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Old 23-April-2008, 09:13 PM
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if a photon of light has 0 rest mass but it has momentum then ...

Can there be a transition from wave to particle as its space-time is compressed.
Spacetime compressed?

You have mentioned this in different forms- can you Clearly Outline what you mean by compressed? Compressed how?

Are you asking if you can "squeeze" a photon until it's energy is matter?

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Does lights momentum change when in a gravitational field?
Nope. It remains the same.
The reason light cannot escape a black hole is because of the Warp in spacetime. The curvature is so great that it turns back on itself while traveling in a straight line.
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Old 23-April-2008, 09:20 PM
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Note that the total momentum of any object is actually p=m0*v/sqrt(1-v2/c2). This simply goes to mv as velocity is very small compared to c. For all consideration with relativity though, this must be considered in full.
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Old 23-April-2008, 09:24 PM
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Spacetime compressed?

You have mentioned this in different forms- can you Clearly Outline what you mean by compressed? Compressed how?
Again ... maybe this is ajust a confusion on my part but ... either at the speed of light relative to something or when there is a difference in gravity.

It is my assumption ( maybe I am wrong ) that space-time contracts. Meaning that what seems like a short distance to an external observer ( also short period of time ) really becomes a longer distance ( and thusly longer period of time ) to the observed.

If we watched someone near a black hole. Their yard sticks would be shorter than our yardsticks. In addition their clocks would run slower.
Time is slowed and distance shrunk near a gravity source ( almost the definition of gravity ).

To use your terms ... as I believe them to be ... the fabric of space time is compressed.
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Old 23-April-2008, 09:29 PM
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Note that the total momentum of any object is actually p=m0*v/sqrt(1-v2/c2). This simply goes to mv as velocity is very small compared to c. For all consideration with relativity though, this must be considered in full.
so momentum goes to infinitiy as the velocity approaches the speed of light assuming a massive object. Right?

Now how do we detect this momentum? And are you saying that for a photon of light it always has the exact momentum regardless of its wavelength?
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Old 23-April-2008, 10:04 PM
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so momentum goes to infinitiy as the velocity approaches the speed of light assuming a massive object. Right?

Now how do we detect this momentum? And are you saying that for a photon of light it always has the exact momentum regardless of its wavelength?
No. For a photon, momentum is dependent on energy, which is proportional to frequency. That can be determined with the equation E2=(pc)2+(mv2)2. As photons are massless, the second term drops out, simplifying the equation to E2=(pc)2 in that case.

Oh, and you are right about the momentum going to infinity for a massive object as it approaches c.
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Old 23-April-2008, 10:23 PM
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For Tommac:
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Oh, and you are right about the momentum going to infinity for a massive object as it approaches c.
Yes, ONLY an object that has mass.
A massless photon does not approach infinity.
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Old 24-April-2008, 01:58 AM
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so is it safe to say that the momentum of light diminishes as space-time expands and the momentum of light increases as space-time contracts.

In other words ... as time slows down light gains momentum as time speeds up light loses momentum.












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No. For a photon, momentum is dependent on energy, which is proportional to frequency. That can be determined with the equation E2=(pc)2+(mv2)2. As photons are massless, the second term drops out, simplifying the equation to E2=(pc)2 in that case.

Oh, and you are right about the momentum going to infinity for a massive object as it approaches c.
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Old 24-April-2008, 01:18 PM
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...It is my assumption ( maybe I am wrong ) that space-time contracts. Meaning that what seems like a short distance to an external observer ( also short period of time ) really becomes a longer distance ( and thusly longer period of time ) to the observed...
This sounds like a lot of your confusion. Space-Time does not "become" anything. It is what it is. It is the observer themselves that interprets it differently. Space-time is the same, the rulers are different.
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Old 24-April-2008, 01:41 PM
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Tommac, I would suggest you read some good mainstream literature on relativity and cosmology. Trying to defy established knowledge with 'tricky' questions wonīt do any good to yourself. I could even say the profusion of senseless questions is nearing what is called here 'disruptive behavior'. I, for one, am losing a great deal of my time trying to follow them [and unfortunately for me I refuse to use the 'ignore' feature, cause I donīt like the idea of ignoring something]. Think about it, and donīt take me bad.
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Old 24-April-2008, 01:44 PM
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This sounds like a lot of your confusion. Space-Time does not "become" anything. It is what it is. It is the observer themselves that interprets it differently. Space-time is the same, the rulers are different.
OK so please explain this. What is the difference between the fabric of space time being curved or the rulers being different? I am using the idea of rulers being different as the same thing as the fabric of space time being curved.

Ok lets say the ruler is different. what happens to the speed of light when a ruler contracts ?
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Old 24-April-2008, 01:46 PM
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I hear you. trust me I am reading as quickly as I possibly can. But I need to admit I am not a PHD yet. This being said. Can you please help clarify exactly when I am wrong? I will and do listen.

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Tommac, I would suggest you read some good mainstream literature on relativity and cosmology. Trying to defy established knowledge with 'tricky' questions wonīt do any good to yourself. I could even say the profusion of senseless questions is nearing what is called here 'disruptive behavior'. I, for one, am losing a great deal of my time trying to follow them [and unfortunately for me I refuse to use the 'ignore' feature, cause I donīt like the idea of ignoring something]. Think about it, and donīt take me bad.
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Old 24-April-2008, 01:55 PM
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I have a wonderment for the physicists in the audiance. *Ahem* Can light bend spacetime? If so, could you have a light so bright it made its own blackhole?
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Old 24-April-2008, 01:59 PM
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I have a wonderment for the physicists in the audiance. *Ahem* Can light bend spacetime? If so, could you have a light so bright it made its own blackhole?

I think so ... In fact some guy has created a time machine where lasers swirl space-time. The hope is that he can send an electron back in time.
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20050716/fob7.asp
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Old 24-April-2008, 02:02 PM
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I have a wonderment for the physicists in the audiance. *Ahem* Can light bend spacetime? If so, could you have a light so bright it made its own blackhole?
I think since light is energy and e=mc2. you can emulate the mass of a black hole by creating a light beam so powerful that its energy would be the mass of a black hole.

Are there limitations to the energy that light can hold? If not then I think what you say is possible however the amout of light needed would be astounding. Maybe some of the primordial black holes were created this way??? before there was matter?
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Old 24-April-2008, 02:30 PM
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I hear you. trust me I am reading as quickly as I possibly can. But I need to admit I am not a PHD yet. This being said. Can you please help clarify exactly when I am wrong? I will and do listen.
I think youīre having problems with the notion of time contraction and dilation [note, we all have those problems and Iīm not a professor - on the contrary, Iīm just a curious guy like you]. An important point is that, in relativity, you have to use coordinate transformations [and this is a key concept] to understand [to interpret] what is going on in a frame that is different than yours [e.g. an object moving closer to the speed of light when you are standing still]. Those [geometric] trasformations make time appear to behave oddly. Thereīs nothing magical, or mysterious, about time, and it does not have a life of its own.

There is a also a hint that you are confusing quantum mechanics phenomena with relativity. Keep in mind that these domains are incompatible, and people are still working on a way to make them be one.
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Old 24-April-2008, 03:17 PM
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OK so please explain this. What is the difference between the fabric of space time being curved or the rulers being different? I am using the idea of rulers being different as the same thing as the fabric of space time being curved.
No; I can't, because there would be volumes to really explain it the way you seem to need. In this environment, we can only give short answers, point in the direction you should go, tell you where you are getting it wrong.
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Old 24-April-2008, 04:02 PM
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This answer does absolutely nothing for me. If you cant provide any help then just say so. If you cant explain it because you can only post short posts then please point me to a place that can answer this question.

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No; I can't, because there would be volumes to really explain it the way you seem to need. In this environment, we can only give short answers, point in the direction you should go, tell you where you are getting it wrong.
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Old 24-April-2008, 04:42 PM
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This answer does absolutely nothing for me. If you cant provide any help then just say so. If you cant explain it because you can only post short posts then please point me to a place that can answer this question.
What a rude post Tommac, Members have repeatedly pointed you into the directions you refuse to go in.
This is a discussion board, not a Scientific Journal nor a University.
You cannot expect someone to provide you with meaningful answers even over a series of posts.
It takes TIME to learn things. You start with the basics, and work your way up.
Use the links several of us have provided you with (Deja vu again, I swear I've said this before) and then come back with meaningful questions.

What NeoWatcher just said hit the nail on the head. You can only accept it.
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Old 25-April-2008, 04:42 PM