It is by looking at management that gives a clue as to the balancing of the energies of space, that is assuming a series of connected energies. In management the most rigid and least changing parts of a team are the top and the bottom while middle management has to be the most flexible of all.

To avoid the possibility of irregularity of simple cross connection within structure one option is to associate the top and the bottom known entities a direct link and let the middle work out a multitude of variations within.

That would give an end to end structure for the proton as a worm hole which means a time like quality along its length. So the stability of the proton may have more in common with the perceived expansion of the universe and just be a part of planetary solar or galactic matter more by way of association. That is why I looked at the option of something similar to a goiter that is able to be moved fairly freely around the line of where it is connected and perhaps associated with a right angle corner of connection between lead in and lead out.

Then all middle structures would have to be worked out based on the proximity it has to the end structures which allows for a multitude of connection types in the middle. Perhaps unlike some business hierarchies the communication would not be dominated by the need from the middle to sort out the vagaries of the top and the bottom but the middle although allowing incredible variation would conform to the unity and connection of top and bottom.

Otherwise it is a bizarro second universe style connection which could not exactly be ruled out provided it gave the same level of stability to top perceived uniformity of space and bottom stability of the proton. Given the sheer order of magnitude of difference in calculated energy requirements I favor the beginning to end in structure and also note how often by just working off the top of my head that I have been wrong.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

Sorry did not mean = just mean that space time can not exist without energy. If energy is on one side of the equation and space time on the other wouldnt that mean that they equal or at least related. What happens in the formula when the curvature goes to 0 ?

Not really. All it means is that some of the properties of spacetime are equal to or related to energy. Doesn't mean spacetime itself is. .

You have a flat manifold. By the model, this means you have Euclidean spacetime. But you still have spacetime.

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Some try to tell me, thoughts they cannot defend,... - Moody Blues.

space is about the " ROOM " that particles need in order to manifest

" if " space does in fact expand it is not because of " space " but because of the matter in space

what properties does space have in and of its self , by itself , alone ?

you don't curve space you curve the matter in that space

space is nothing , since it is a consequence of , rather than an impetus







but what is gravity based on ?

energy/ matter

so gravity is not based on space but on the energy/matter IN a particular place in space

yes




space cannot be curved

this concept that space can be curved is a mathematical concept and is not derived from reality


which ends up as a contradiction when looked at three dimensionally

and a null expansion in the end

OK but what is the metric?

does the metric really relate to the reality of the situation ? the physical dynamics

no

Hmmmm ... I think I disagree with most of this.

I agree that space acts as the room. However, I believe that it is more than that. Light passing through curved space curves. I can see your point that the light is what is curving ... but I think that this is where we disagree. I look as space-time as being the rails that guides matter.

Lets look at gravity and a black hole. Why does gravity escape from a black hole but light doesnt? I believe the answer to be that space is curved ... but while light is effected by the curvature of space-time gravity is not and can thusly escape.

Also time is curved along with space. So as the flow of time relatively changes near a gravitational source so does any measurement of space change in proportionately in that area.

Space has properties ... the amount of energy that is in its space + the fields that it is in ... gravitational, magnetic etc ...

I disagree

look at light passing through water , the light curves because the Nature of water

inotherwords there is a form of matter which " causes " the curvature of light in space not empty space in and of its self

Light appears to bend (not CURVE) because of the nature of light.

Per your definition of space how does it expand? Things are just moving apart from each other?

Do all points in empty space allow light to pass through it in the exact same way?

Does a point in space have a temperature? gravitational field? magnetic field?

the light does not " appear to be bend " light does bend

Well it is more correctly put that light follows the geodesics (the shape) of space because light is a mass-less energy. It is incapable of determining the vector it will travel because that is decided by the direction of emission from the light source and as such light must follow the curvature of space.

Light may be absorbed and re-emitted which would lead to scattering which is the equivalent of 'light noise' or general light wash when looking at an individual image. It may have the speed determined by the medium in which it is travelling and that is why it is measured as light speed in a vacuum. In a diamond light travels at about 40% the speed of light because of the effect of the material in a diamond.

Just a small point which is why tensor equations are used to calculate curvature but the curvature is not of the light.

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"Nature is obliged to let reality determine its laws, whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

The metric tells you how to measure distance (for each coordinate) on a manifold. Which is quite handy in GR, as most of the time, the manifold, which represents spacetime, is warped. The metric provides you with a way to measure distance and time on a particular manifold. Remember, the manifold represents spacetime. For a discussion of metrics, go here

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Some try to tell me, thoughts they cannot defend,... - Moody Blues.

Really ... I guess it depends how you are looking at it. Light goes in a straight line.

Well that was my question, how does one determine what metric to use?

By using the manifold you get when you solve the Einstein Field Equations. The metric tensor comes from the tangent spaces of the manifold. Mathematically, it drops out as a matrix, once you decide what coordinate system you want to use (remember, GR is coordinate free, it allows you to use any arbitrary set of coordinates). It was explained in the link in my original answer.

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Some try to tell me, thoughts they cannot defend,... - Moody Blues.

Sorry article is a little over my head. I may have asked the question wrong.

What I want to ask is when energy = 0 on one side of GR equation you have a flat manifold. Right? What does that mean? Uggg ... I realize all that I do not know right now because I dont know the terms of the question I want to ask. Can you please show the equation again when energy is equal to 0 and all zero'd stuff removed?

You have a Minkowski spacetime which has a Minkowski metric. Which has three space and one time dimension. Euclidean Space (which was what space was though to be prior to relativity) has three space dimentions. Think of it this way, in flat space, the interior angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. In curved space, they can be more or less, depending on the curvature.


Which equation? There are many interrelated equations. I think you're talking about the Einstein Field Equations, (which is where the curvature and stress-energy tensors are) here it is G^ab=0 or equivalently, R^ab=0. Where G is the Einstein tensor and R is the Ricci tensor. The explanations and derivations can be found here

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Some try to tell me, thoughts they cannot defend,... - Moody Blues.

Using:

( taken from another thread )
Rij - (gij*R)/2 + L*gij = -8*pi*G/c2 * Tij

Rij = Ricci tensor
R= curvature scalar
gij = metric tensor
L = cosmological constant
G = Newtonian gravitational constant
c = speed of light
Tij = energy - momentum tensor (sometimes called stress energy tensor
pi = 3.14159265358979323846…

If the right side goes to 0
Rij - (gij*R)/2 + L*gij = 0

then

Rij + L*gij = - (gij*R)/2 right?

But what does that mean?