What role would the speculative idea that the universe and all its energy have always existed play in the nature of the energy background?

The role of a universe that has always existed would play is that a certain portion of the energy of the universe would always be in the form of the energy background and a certain proportion in the form of matter. The energy background could be said to host a certain amount matter at all times.

What would the relationship be between matter and the background if matter as you (I) speculate is composed of energy in the form of energy quanta?

An individual energy quantum has a very brief existence, less than picoseconds and can best be described as a quantum action as opposed to a quantum of energy even though a quantum also consists of a precise amount of energy in a precise amount of space. It is what happens during that picoseconds existence in that quantum amount of space that says what quantum action really is.

What does happen in the brief time a quantum exists?

A quantum of energy is composed of a very large number of energy density fluctuations described in the first link above. The background is frothing with these tiny energy density fluctuations at all times as a result of continual quantum action. The density of the fluctuations in the background determines if matter forms, but even if the density is too low for matter formation, the quantum action is still going on which perpetuates the frothy background of energy density fluctuations. Matter forms when the energy density fluctuation density (yikes, that is what I said, “energy density fluctuation” density) forces a quantum of energy in the form of energy density fluctuations into a particular tiny amount of space, a quantum space. When that occurs, that tiny quantum space is filled with a huge number of tiny energy density fluctuations but the space is now an energy environment of its own within the energy environment of the background. Put in other words to describe why it has become a separate energy environment, the quantum space has achieved a density that is greater than the density surrounding it, and it has enough of the tiny fluctuations in it to allow quantum action to occur.

OK, so get to the point, what happens when quantum action occurs in a quantum space that has enough of those tiny energy density fluctuations?

Energy density equalization occurs.

What is energy density equalization then?

In the first link above I described the movement displayed by energy density fluctuations as they froth around in the background. That movement is energy density equalization at work. Energy density equalization is the nature of energy which is characterized as always trying to equalize its density across its energy environment. When a new energy environment forms the process of equalization of the environment begins to take place as an event, and at the same time there is another event and that is the equalizing of the new environment with the surrounding environment. Until a quantum of energy forms in a quantum space, the frothy background consists of the movement of the tiny energy density fluctuations as they equalize within their own tiny space and with the adjoining fluctuations in the background. The background never becomes equalized as a whole because of the quantum action that is always taking place to froth things up.

OK, so you were about to describe how energy density equalization causes quantum action when just the right number of energy density fluctuations occupies just the right amount of space, a quantum space.

Yes. The equalization takes place among the energy density fluctuations in the quantum space, ignoring the energy density fluctuations in the surround space.

OK, so what is the implication of that?

The implication is that as equalization within the quantum space occurs, the number of individual energy density fluctuations rapidly declines as equalization among them takes place.

And so?

And so the space required containing the quantum of energy declines as low density fluctuations equalize with high density fluctuations within that environment. The quantum action is taking place in the quantum space and ignoring the surrounding space of the background for the moment.

So the number of fluctuations in the quantum space is declining and the space required to contain the remaining fluctuations is also declining, but the average energy density of each remaining fluctuation is increasing?

Yes, quantum action is underway.

And so quantum action continues until … what, infinite energy density and zero volume is achieved as a result?

Ah, no. There is a limit as to how high the energy density in a given space can get, i.e. maximum energy density is achieved before infinite energy density is achieved.

So this maximum limit of energy density is achieved and that is what you call a high density spot?

Correct.

And a high density spot contains a quantum of energy in one spot of equalized high energy density at maximum energy density in the minimum possible space that can host such a spot?

Yes. But just for an instant because there is a great force called potential expansion energy building up as the spot forms and there is nothing to sustain the spot because the surrounding background is at a much lower density.

So what happens when the spot cannot be contained in the small space it occupies for that instant?

It begins to expand as the potential expansion energy is exerted against the low energy density of the surrounding background.

Does the energy density of the spot remain equalized as expansion occurs?

No, the special separate environment that existed when the quantum formed has played out as equalization occurred to cause the high density spot, but as the expansion occurs it is as if the spot simply bursts into the background and is immediately immersed with the frothing energy density fluctuations of the background and is scattered throughout the immediate vicinity.

So that is the end of that quantum formation, and quantum action is complete?

Yes, in the case of that one particular quantum, but if the density of energy density fluctuations in the background is high enough, new quanta form encompassing the remnants of many high density spots that have recently burst in the vicinity.

So the quantum action repeats itself across the background as new quanta form from the energy density fluctuations that occupy the background and/or that have just reentered the background from the bursts of completed quantum action?

Yes, and if the density of the quanta that are frothing up the background gets high enough, groupings of forming and bursting quanta become individual energy environments of their own; self sufficient and able to become tiny particles made up of self sufficient quanta mutually sharing space and exchanging their energy density fluctuations in a kind of an orchestrated synchronization separate from the energy background. The engaged energy density fluctuations become sub quanta as the stability of the forming particle begins to get established.

Wow, really?

Speculatively, yes.

Speculation about the force exerted by one quantum action:

Quantum action occurs when a quantum of energy collapses into a high denstiy spot and bursts back into the energy background.

A quantum of energy that performs quantum action has location, movement in the form of collapsing space occupied as the action takes place, location as a high density spot in the space of one energy density fluctuation, and force as a burst of energy when the spot reaches maximum energy density and expands back into the surrounding background.

In addition, there is resulting action in the space surrounding the quantum as energy density fluctuations from the surrounding space rush into the vacated space as the space occupied by the quantum collapses.

And in addition, when the burst occurs it is transmitted across space as it impacts the energy density fluctuations surrounding it and their movement is in turn impacted.

The physical result of quantum action is transmitted across the background as a wave with a trough and a peak. The trough is the pull portion of the wave that is generated by the collapse and the peak following the trough is the push portion of the wave generated by the burst.

That background 'space' is the CMBR. It comes to us that way...forget 'where' I say it is coming from for a moment!

It is coming to us from all directions at "c".

SO, what you just described in the quote above, IS a Gravitational Collapse, Not of the whole universe, BUT in 'empty space' IN our universe, and IS a Long GRB, The High Energy Gamma Radiation the result of the collapse into a SMBH!

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RussT
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Everything is, as it should be, otherwise, it wouldn't be!

The energy wave is exerted spherically against the background energy density. A quantum action is both a collapse (pull) of the quantum space and a burst (push) of the space occupied by the quantum of energy so there is a net zero energy quantum wave.

Though the net is zero there is an impact on the configuration of the background caused by the force of one quantum action.

The force exerted by quantum action is not a traditional force in terms of physics because it is a pull and a push at different stages of one quantum action event and there has to be a push and a pull, neither piece of the process can occur unless both occur. One quantum action occurring in the background is a fundamental force that is present because the energy background has more energy than can become equalized. If there was less energy in the background, the background would become equalized and all useful energy would be spent. If that were to occur, all of the tiny energy density fluctuations that occupy the background would equalized themselves into one infinite and equal energy density with no fluctuations.

But that is not the case because the energy background has always existed and has always been frothed up by the quantum action that naturally occurs in and around mass. Granted there are places where the energy density of the background differs from other places which I have often discussed, but those different places with different background energy densities also qualify as different energy environments (described in the OP).


The volume of space affected by the pull and then by the push is potentially infinite and not exactly opposite. They are not exactly opposite because time passes between the pull and the push.

In the picoseconds of the quantum action the frothing of the background changes the exact energy density configuration in the background space between the pull and the push, so one pull/push does impact the configuration of the background even though the net force is zero.

So what exactly is the impact, i.e. how is the configuration of the background changed by the force of quantum action?

Staying with the example of one quantum action taking place in the background of energy density fluctuations, there is a very low density zone created surrounding the high density spot as the collapse of the space occupied by the quantum of energy takes place. The background quickly tries to equalize the density by rushing into the low energy density zone from all directions. This movement sends a wave of low density across the background and as the wave travels it causes a shift of the background energy density fluctuations toward the low energy density zone. This low density wave has an infinite reach.

Then the high density spot bursts and expands back into the low energy density space that it vacated during the collapse. That space is in the process of being reoccupied by the rush of the surrounding energy density fluctuations into that space and so the push wave, a high energy density wave, is transmitted across the background behind the low density wave.

The net impact of the two waves is that the entire background is moved toward the high density spot by the pull wave and then it is pushed back by the push wave. The net effect on the background of one single quantum action is that two waves are transmitted across the background, a low density wave follow by a high density wave. Effectively these two waves act as a single wave starting as a lower energy density and increasing to a higher energy density and then returning to the original energy density.


The impact of one quantum action would be a wave that traverses the entire universe unnoticed, but if two quantum pulses occur a distance away from each other, the noticeable effect would be that there would be a path established between the two pulses that differs from the paths in all other directions.

The difference in the path between them and any other path is that the waves caused by the two quantum actions first intersect at a point directly between them and as the intersection moves away from that point it describes a circular plain of intersection in the background directly between the two quantum pulses.

This is notable in that the two quantum actions cause a mutual change in the configuration of the energy density background that is most apparent in the path directly between them.

The “waves” transmitted by quantum action are fluctuations that traverse the energy background.

The background itself consists of “frothing” energy density fluctuations.

So what is the result of quantum wave fluctuations on the frothing energy density fluctuations of the background?

Like I speculated in the OP, the energy background has always existed, and since the quantum waves have infinite journeys across the background, the background frothing has always been perpetuated by the quantum waves of quantum action.

Having always exited, the energy density fluctuations that make up the background are the network, the tapestry, the frothing and jostled intersections of an infinite number of quantum waves crossing each point in the energy background at all times.

Unlike waves that we are familiar with, the quantum waves don’t carry any net energy but they reposition the energy density of the energy background into tiny patches of varying density as they pass. The constant jostling of the energy density fluctuations by multiple wave intersections stimulates more quantum action.

Characteristics of the energy background:

It has always existed.

It is made up of the energy commodity that has always been characterized by frothing energy density fluctuations jostled by quantum waves.

Quantum waves are caused by quantum action, the collapse of a quantum of energy into a high density spot which reaches maximum energy density that can’t be contained by the surrounding low energy density of the background and so they burst.

The collapse and burst, i.e. quantum action sends a net zero energy wave across the background that impacts the configuration of the energy density fluctuations that make up the background.

Quantum action occurs because the amount of energy in the universe requires that a portion of the energy content of the universe is in the form of matter at all times, i.e. quanta are forced into existence by high energy density.

The background supports a fixed ratio of matter to background energy, matter is composed of groupings of energy quanta, and the quantum action in and around matter perpetuates the fluctuations of the background.

Are your speculative ideas against mainstream thought or merely outside of it?

This particular thread is more "outside" than against, but my cosmology, The Infinite Spongy Universe (ISU) is "against" the mainstream because it predicts that our expanding universe is just an arena of expanding energy density within a greater universe that has always existed.

The energy background, the energy density fluctuations, the quantum, quantum action, quantum waves, ratio between background energy and energy content of matter, matter being composed of energy in quantum increments, matter initiating gravity as matter forms from energy quanta, gravity causing stars, stars into galaxies, all moving away from each other at an accelerating rate are also parts of the ISU.

By association, this "outside" the mainstream thread is part of a larger idea that is against the mainstream.

Do you propose a mechanism for interaction with the outside universe?

I'm sure I do .

But I'm not sure of how you are using the phrase "the outside universe". My answer to Hornblower referred to this thread being "outside" of mainstream, not outside of the universe.

This tread focuses on quantum action which I speculate is the fundamental force of the universe; not outside the universe but outside of where science currently goes.

Quantum action is the same force that I speculate connects our expanding universe with the greater universe. That connection is made when the quanta that make up matter are finally compressed in the core of a big crunch. Inside the big crunch, matter is negated and the quanta are compressed into high density spots that can't expand due to the high energy density of the core of the big crunch. They have potential expansion energy but are effectively "locked" until the compression due to gravity is diminished. The compression due to gravity is diminished because negated matter no longer functions and no longer exerts gravity. As the negated core grows the gravitational field diminishes until the potential expansion energy exceeds the force of gravity. That is when the big crunch "bursts" and marks the start of our expanding arena.

It sounds very much like a string theory in that at some point all the quanta that form matter no longer hold form. I assume at that point the compression is unable to cope with quanta unbound in matter and acting as uncaptured energy without a rest state.

That collapse of rest state potential may not need to be singularity if at some point compression could exceed the stability of formed matter. That would at least give a rebound effect.

Are we allowed to redefine the big bang as a release state?

The reason I ask is that gravity is presumed to arrive after the formation of the other nuclear forces. It would mean rewriting the text books.

Thank you for that, I appreciate that someone can see some aspects in my ideas that at least have gotten some recognition in the scientific community.I may not understand this point. The compression does cope with the quanta that are negated from matter in the core of a big crunch in my speculations. The quanta are dealt with in their “high density spot” phase of the quantum action that I describe above. They are dealt with by being held in that high density spot state by the compression.

Now I admit that my view is that the high density spots actually merge with each other while “locked” by compression, and the potential expansion energy is a characteristic of the merged spots, but that is a complexity of my speculations that doesn’t need to be explained since no one would know the distinction anyway .That sounds like what I am speculating. The force of quantum action avoids the singularity because r’ is a finite number. The high density spot is not a zero volume point but if it was it would make the quantum force itself a singularity.

I do speculate, like you mention, that compression does cause matter to cease to function. The quanta that make up that matter are compressed down to high density spots, but those spots have dimension.

I speculate that matter exists between two certain energy densities. The highest possible energy density that matter can function in is achieved within the big crunch. The much lower energy density where matter reforms from the energy background occurs after the burst of the big crunch and as the released energy environment equalizes sufficiently with the much lower energy density surrounding the crunch/burst.

I have described the rebound effect as a "bounce" off of the impossible compression limit referred to as infinite density, i.e. a zero volume point energy singularity.Only in ATM .Of course those nuclear forces must arrive in order for matter to function and functioning matter is required to exert gravity in my speculations so I don't think there is a dispute with my speculations on that point. I simply speculate that the nuclear forces are all derived from the quantum action. The path to unraveling the mysteries can be by back engineering with super colliders, or by bottoms up step by step reasonable and responsible speculation, i.e. my method. I don't even have a basement to house a collider.

Not being committed to other's theories makes it easier to speculate about new physics.

Some effort is underway, and has been for a couple of decades to tell where the mass of the fundamental particles comes from. I speculate that mass comes from the quantum action that I have described.

I speculate that dark energy, the force that drives accelerating expansion of the observable universe is the energy background that I describe.

The active force exerted by the background to cause expansion and to explain accelerating expansion is energy density equalization, the characteristic of the energy in the background to equalize the energy density between adjoining energy environments. The background that occupies our expanding universe that emerged from the big crunch is equalizing with the lower energy density background of the energy environment surrounding our expanding universe.

I thought I would come under some fire by making those assertions.

I am building up to a speculation about dark matter that gathers during matter formation. It exists in around galaxies as a natural consequence of quantum action and matter formation from the energy density fluctuations of the energy background under certain energy density conditions.

Oops, well there it is. I speculate that dark matter is energy quanta that exist in abundance in partially formed groupings that don't complete the process of becoming complete interactive particles during the matter formation process. They linger around matter, they feel gravity, they emit quantum waves, but they have only sporadic and temporary mass and they pop in and out of the background.

It follows that if quanta are negated from matter at the core of a big crunch, and the locked quanta don’t exert their individual high density spot burst, the second half of the net zero quantum wave action, then the buildup of the potential burst energy is the cumulative value of the burst phase of the quantum waves.

The push phase of the net zero energy quantum action is “locked” by compression at the core of a big crunch.

When quanta are compressed in the core of a big crunch, the first phase of the dual wave (the low energy density wave caused by the pull) is emitted and increases the compression exerted by the big crunch. The second phase, the push is restricted and converted by default to potential expansion energy.

When this energy is released it goes through a period of rapid expansion equivalent to the burst of the 10^n sub 1 high density spots locked in the core. Following the rapid expansion of the potential burst energy during which the waves overwhelm the energy density of the background totally disrupting any quanta formation capability of the surrounding background until the major burst wave subsides.

The expanse described by the initial rapid expansion and the volume of space subject to disruption of quanta formation in the background marks the size that the energy density environment reaches before quanta form and quantum action begins. Once that point in the expansion is reached the energy density has declined to the point where matter formation within the expanding energy environment begins.

This is the point where I want to introduce the concept of decoupling of the quantum wave. The pull and the push, trough and peak of the net zero energy quantum wave occur an instant apart and if nothing happens to prevent it during that instant, the net energy carried by the wave is zero.

What could happen in that instant to decouple the pull from the push?

The answer is that the formation of quanta along the path of the wave can extract energy from the wave. By using the trough formed by the pull, background energy density fluctuations are repositioned. Repositioning sometimes results in the initiation of a quantum action. If that occurs as a result of the pull, then the immediate collapse of the energy quantum in the middle of the passing wave will capture energy from the push that passes following the pull.

As a result, the pull continues on and a portion of the push is contained in the high density spot of that particular quantum action. The quantum wave has been decoupled into a pull piece and a contained push piece.

If that quantum high density spot simply bursts back into the background it sends a new push pull net zero wave, but if the high density spot bursts in conjunction with the collapse of a quantum action near it then its wave is also decoupled, some of the push is again contained in the new high density spot.

The pull repositions the energy background toward the quantum action. If a portion of the push is contained, then the net zero wave becomes a net pull.

At the instant that the high density spot forms, mass temporarily exists.

My next thread will address the decoupling and re-coupling of the quantum wave, the formation of mass and the initiation of gravity as mass forms from quantum action.

Energy is bound at the quantum level (quarks, leptons). It's actually bound at several levels, depending on which force you're talking about (electroweak, etc.).

Kick up the energy level high enough and you unbind the matter (lower levels, the electron from the atom, at higher levels, quarks from other quarks).

So far as we know, we've found the fundamental particles (energy released/exhibited equals what is expected). The LHC might change that, but I don't think so.

Mugaliens, I agree with energy being bound and that it takes high energy levels to unbind quarks, etc.

I agree that the fundamental particles of the standard particle model have been confirmed over and over again.

I don’t share your thinking about what the LHC experiments might discover.
My prediction is that the LHC will demonstrate a new group of particles and data to support them. The data of the new level of particles may hint at a force that is not yet part of the particle model.

Why are you pessimistic?

Certainly CERN is hoping to piece together the answers to some of the remaining questions to advance particle theory and as justification for the money invested.

The fundamental questions that the particle model leaves unanswered include how particles acquire mass, what dark energy is, what dark matter is, and what caused the big bang.

Quantum action and the energy background that I speculate about can account for all of those things and should be compatible with what we do know about particles and forces if there is at least one more level to be discovered. If the LHC experiments confirm my prediction then quantum action and quantum wave speculations may be on the right track.

With honesty, Bogie: if you use the word "quantum" more than two times in a single post I probably won't comprehend the details.

But I am capable of picking out some of your key points.

From the original block:

It's necessary (for me at least) that the lack of voids means that EVERYTHING in the Universe can be defined the same way.
As Energy.

That includes Thoughts and Observations.

Despite the confusion of being abstract; it must be true.
"Thought" is not removed from the Universe just because it's generated inside of a biological form.
We, and everything about us, are a part of this creation.

What it comes down to for me is the compression of Energy.
Energy compressed by Energy to be exact.

Those things more compressed than Liquid are Solid.
Those less compressed are Gas.
Less than Gas is Dark Matter / Dark Energy.

The scale reaches across the full spectrum of Matter.

Obviously, I have my own closet theory
but it seems so mechanically near to what you're proposing that I can't resist the temptation.

So, to over simplify my response to "how particles acquire mass",
they don't.
They "acquire" the compression of Energy.

It's only our perspective that dictates what is "more" or "less" dense.
(Or compressed)

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Now that I feel so insecure by exposing that stuff in my closet,
I'll wait for you to reply before believing that I actually understood your concept.

Man, I hope this post doesn't come back to bite me.

Speculations:
Yes, everything is composed of energy. It is hard not to include thought as energy. The energy of thought is expended by the brain as you activate your neural network. It is a learned activity like any physical movement; accept that you are manipulating circuitry as well as muscle. The location of thought activity is like a hologram in one way, and that is that many locations of your brain participate at once and the location of the thought is disbursed as it takes place because it is calling on so many separate prior thoughts that are stored here and there.

The thought is embedded in the neural network based on the many circuits you use during the thought and the category of your thought. The brain is orderly and no thought is lost but the sheer number of thoughts makes the brain work on priorities. As a thought is enacted it is assigned a relevance rating, is linked to similar thoughts, and is time stamped for ready reference.

The short term physical storage takes place in brain cells used during the thought process. The thought is embedded as a pattern of energy density impressions within the cells. Long term memory is implanted in cells that are like file drawers that are filled in a very orderly way as you sleep based on the encoding of the short term thoughts as they occurred.

This is all speculation of course but you can’t find very many versions of how thoughts are performed and filed so there isn't much to go on.

You don’t need to keep any closet thoughts. Just start an ATM thread and let it out . The subject is a little off topic on this thread but feel free to reply, and if you do start a thread let me know where it is.

Btw, here is a recent post about a perspective of God which you might find interesting.

pete

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A third rate theory forbids.
A second rate theory explains after the fact.
A first rate theory predicts.
A. Lomonosov

As usual I’m the last to know . I thought that Hornblower meant that my speculations about quantum action were more related to levels of particle physics and fundamental particles that are not testable at the present time as opposed to taking exceptions to mainstream science.

Your show of spirit and joy tells me you took Hornblower’s post as a flame of sorts instead, and that you were pleased with a flame that I mistook for a serious post.

I’m afraid to ask Hornblower to clarify since this thread was dead for two weeks aside from your emoticons and I’m not interested in reviving it. My latest thread about Quantum Wave Cosmology picks up where this thread left off (disregarding the last post by David Mc and my thoughtful reply ).