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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 13-September-2008, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodin View Post
In contradiction with what observation exactly?
Direct observation:
Subduction.
Shear Zones.

Measured Observation: No change in Earths radius in the last 620 million years. This limits the time during which the Earth could have expanded to prior to that.
Crustal movement indicates that the continents were much closer together even 78 - 90 million years ago than they are today. Making continental drift due to expansion extremely unlikely.
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Old 13-September-2008, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
Direct observation:
Subduction.
Shear Zones.

Measured Observation: No change in Earths radius in the last 620 million years. This limits the time during which the Earth could have expanded to prior to that.
Crustal movement indicates that the continents were much closer together even 78 - 90 million years ago than they are today. Making continental drift due to expansion extremely unlikely.
Subduction could be due to contraction and shear zones could be due to general stretching and squashing of the crust as we inflate and deflate.

However the latter points are seriously in the way of expanding/contracting Earth. The evidence for crustal movement may have to be successfully challenged with an at least plausible alternative since the unified theory states Earth expanded with its Flora and Fauna and contracted similarly.

This response is by far the most sensible challenge to the UTE so far

I think I tackle the continental movement second if you don't mind (since I think that is an issue more open to interpretation) and challenge the ultimate deal-breaker. No change in the Earth's radius fór 620 m years. That crushes ECE. Now - how do we know this is true? (None of us were around then so we must be interpreting a derivative of that period.)
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Old 13-September-2008, 08:11 PM
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FWIW I am reading Terra Non Firma Earth By James Maxlow which is free online

According to the preface he has checked mineral, geological and magnetic continuities across the separated Pacific continents. I will report back

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=B...esult#PPA27,M1
  #124 (permalink)  
Old 13-September-2008, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rodin View Post
No change in the Earth's radius fór 620 m years. That crushes ECE. Now - how do we know this is true? (None of us were around then so we must be interpreting a derivative of that period.)
I only have it on pdf so hang on... There may be an Edit added to this post later...


ETA: http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/200...RG900016.shtml

Last edited by Neverfly; 13-September-2008 at 08:57 PM..
  #125 (permalink)  
Old 13-September-2008, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
I only have it on pdf so hang on... There may be an Edit added to this post later...
Page 32 of the Maxlow book link a very interesting map. Perhaps contradicts the idea of exponential expansion. Cream = 'blow off' phase (stock chart metaphor) then 2 squashed bands and ridges subducting rapidly IMO

Dates TBC

Please excuse if I get absorbed in reading 4 a bit

Looks like Adams massaged the data...

edit

no he didn't Fig 2 P 33
  #126 (permalink)  
Old 13-September-2008, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
I only have it on pdf so hang on... There may be an Edit added to this post later...
BAUT seems to have prob with edits I don't
  #127 (permalink)  
Old 13-September-2008, 08:57 PM
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BAUT seems to have prob with edits I don't
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/200...RG900016.shtml
  #128 (permalink)  
Old 14-September-2008, 07:33 AM
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Correct me if I am wrong but this study measures the activity of the Moon on the Earth I think. If Earth mass remains (fairly) constant, but radius changes, then periodicity of Lunar months is unaffected.

We see a slow and slowing Lunar recession taking place. (I wonder if this extension in distance is to compensate for the loss of mass from Earth (H)?)

James Maxlow would be a good person to answer this because he is a geologist with special interest in Australia

Quote:
James’s interest in Earth expansion stems from working in the Pilbararegion of Western Australia. The Pilbara region is a huge domal structure,hundreds of kilometres across. There, chemically deposited banded ironand silica-rich sedimentary rocks form the largest deposits of iron-ore inthe world.

What was so intriguing to James was that the bedded sediments, rightdown to fine sedimentary laminations seen in the iron-ore, could becorrelated between widely separated sites for distances of over 300 kilo-metres. As you drive through the Pilbara region, the exact same sequenceof rocks and fine banded structures are exposed everywhere along the hillsand escarpments.
http://www.newiki.org/main/index.php?title=James_Maxlow

Last edited by rodin; 14-September-2008 at 03:56 PM.. Reason: added parenthesis to remove ambiguity
  #129 (permalink)  
Old 14-September-2008, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodin View Post
Correct me if I am wrong but this study measures the activity of the Moon on the Earth I think. If Earth mass remains (fairly) constant, but radius changes, then periodicity of Lunar months is unaffected.
LOL I just noticed the pdf link..

and find this
Quote:
The counts for the Reynella and Elatina rhythmites suggest 29-30 lunar days per synodic month and thus imply 30.5 + 0.5 solar days/synodic month.
referring to pictures on P 42

How they can count individual days from those strata beats me

edit

pdf link

http://www.agu.org/journals/rg/v038/...99RG900016.pdf
  #130 (permalink)  
Old 14-September-2008, 09:41 PM
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This is garbage and not worthy of any more of my time. Good luck with your fantasy, Rodin. If you ever undertake a study of biological evolution, you may wish to peruse these articles.
A study of dynamic evolutionary processes
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This is not an idea to be tossed aside lightly - it should be thrown with great force
  #131 (permalink)  
Old 18-September-2008, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Occam View Post
This is garbage and not worthy of any more of my time. Good luck with your fantasy, Rodin. If you ever undertake a study of biological evolution, you may wish to peruse these articles.
A study of dynamic evolutionary processes
Goodbye then posts with links like you offered are a waste of mine
  #132 (permalink)  
Old 25-September-2008, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
Measured Observation: No change in Earths radius in the last 620 million years. This limits the time during which the Earth could have expanded to prior to that.
Crustal movement indicates that the continents were much closer together even 78 - 90 million years ago than they are today. Making continental drift due to expansion extremely unlikely.
WOW!! Those are some pretty LARGE numbers - I'm not sold out on either position here, but I'm curious as to how solid those times are? How do you know they're correct and not based on some (possibly 'flawed') assumptions? Is it at all possible that they're wrong (and let's not get all religious about it - it's not beyond questioning )?
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Old 28-September-2008, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roysloco View Post
WOW!! Those are some pretty LARGE numbers - I'm not sold out on either position here, but I'm curious as to how solid those times are? How do you know they're correct and not based on some (possibly 'flawed') assumptions? Is it at all possible that they're wrong (and let's not get all religious about it - it's not beyond questioning )?
This thread is not dead I see that we can test lunar cycles with sedimentary tidal data but find it hard to believe we can check daily rotational times 50 million years ago.

However what the lunar data proves is that the Earth mass has NOT grown over time as the Neal Adams camp propose therefore very supporti6ve of the notion that we are talking simple phase change here not mass-from-the-ether.

Not saying this is definitely right but the simplest phase change would be neutrons > hydrogen

Are we sure Earth's core was not capable of holding condensed matter until the planet matured/cooled a bit? Geared to temp and pressure? We don't really know for sure what is down there now.

Quote:
Most of Earth's structure is theoretical, being based on extrapolations of physical evidence which has come from the first few kilometres of Earth's surface, samples brought to the surface from deeper depths by volcanic activity, and analysis of seismic waves that pass through it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structu...h#cite_note-12

Certainly we can make a decent stab at P from mass/gravity measurement, but T?

Quote:
Question:
How hot is the Earth's core, approximately, and how can it be measured?
kathleen n mecham

Answer:
There is no way to measure the temperature at the Earth's core
directly. We know from mines and drill holes that, near
the surface of the Earth, the temperature increases by about
1 degree Fahrenheit for every 60 feet in depth. If this
temperature increase continued to the center of the Earth, the
Earth's core would be 100,000 degrees Celsius!

But nobody believes the Earth is that hot; the temperature increase
must slow down with depth
and the core is probably
about 3000 to 5000 degrees Celsius.
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...9/gen99256.htm

my emphasis

why must it slow down with depth?

Why assume 7000 deg C?

What would be the consequence of a core many times hotter than current estimates for matter down there? Could matter be collapsed or supercondensed? Is there a big fission reactor down there?

Plenty to chew on
  #134 (permalink)  
Old 29-September-2008, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodin View Post
why must it slow down with depth?
Why not? Please try to show us, in an appropriate mathematical treatment of heat capacity and heat flow in an iron core and silicate mantle/crust, why you think it should have a steeper temperature gradient down there.
Quote:
Why assume 7000 deg C?
It is not assumed. It is inferred by geophysicists on the basis of aforementioned thermodynamic characteristics.
Quote:
What would be the consequence of a core many times hotter than current estimates for matter down there? Could matter be collapsed or supercondensed? Is there a big fission reactor down there?
My educated guess is that the surface would be much hotter, and that we would not be here to speculate about anything.
Quote:
Plenty to chew on
Plenty to spit out, because it tastes bad. Sorry, I could not resist a wisecrack.
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