Why is this thread in ATM? It is not proposing an unorthodox theory of celestial mechanics. It merely is exploring the use of a naturally occurring combination of cycles of different frequencies as the basis for unorthodox music. Once again, I think Off-Topic Babbling would have been just fine as a venue for this one.

If the moderators wish to move this thread to General Science I would not mind, but OTB is not appropriate, as it is for “non space and astronomy topics”. This topic is entirely about space and astronomy. The ATM dimension of this thread is in its presenting a new harmonic way of representing the solar system which has not been thought of before. Kepler was derided for his proto-ATM views on related topics. My perspective on life is rather ATM so I prefer to live with the 31 day sentence to force faster thought, and with the freedom to express views within that time constraint. I have focussed on demonstrable aspects of this approach, but it does support a critique of the mainstream paradigm. For example, the Jupiter-Saturn-Neptune composition has a descending whole tone scale which looks to be in harmonic relation to the precession of the equinox. It would be inappropriate to discuss a claim like that outside ATM. A musician friend of mine is turning the JSN179 composition into an MP3. Stay tuned.

MP3 file of this initial composition is at Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune for one full barycentre cycle.

It played for all of 2 seconds, then quit.

__________________
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately, it kills all its pupils. Hector Berlioz

"To complete the picture all the photons can be seen to be synchronising friction on and off throughout the overall cone which itself is synchronised to the equal and opposite reaction of equilateral triangulation"... by a scientificator in ATM, too priceless to be lost to posterity.

It runs for 52 seconds. Please try again and let me know if you still have the problem. The file is downloadable so if you have MP3 access you can download and play it on an ipod.

Initial play on the site is still about 2 seconds before it cuts off, but once I activated the download it started playing again and completed the sequence during the download (but independent of it). I would guess a glitch in their software, but hard to say. Interesting sounds.

__________________
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately, it kills all its pupils. Hector Berlioz

"To complete the picture all the photons can be seen to be synchronising friction on and off throughout the overall cone which itself is synchronised to the equal and opposite reaction of equilateral triangulation"... by a scientificator in ATM, too priceless to be lost to posterity.

Hi, I find this is interesting stuff.

Sorry, I don't quite understand the science, but i think that you are corrolating/mapping 'planetary movement' data onto scales are instruments yes?

What music software are you using out of curiosity?

And to the poster that asked what it's doing in ATM...well, it's def. not mainstream ..& it *is* astronomy related, so i guess ATM is it's home...

x

My point is that this exercise is not proposing any unorthodox theory of celestial mechanics. It merely is using a naturally occurring combination of periodic motions as a pattern for unorthodox music. I see nothing intrinsically astronomical about it. The same exercise could have been done with the biorhythms of various animals, and would have been no different in principle. I stand by my opinion that Off-Topic Babbling is an appropriate venue.

Well thank you.The science is explained in more detail in earlier posts. This piece divides the ecliptic into 24 segments, starting from a point where Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune are conjunct, as will happen approximately in about fifteen years time, as as happened exactly in 769 AD and at 179 year intervals thereafter. When a planet is in the first of these 24 (~4.2%) segments of the ecliptic, it is designated by the note E1. In the second segment it is F1, and through to the 24th segment, D#2, rising by semitones over a range of two octaves. The interval between notes is set as 1/36 of the JSN conjunction period of 179 years, ie just under five years per note. Every five years, Jupiter moves over 40% of the way around the ecliptic, so the corresponding musical interval by these parameters is a minor seventh. Hence the Jupiter French Horn part of the piece is a rising minor seventh pattern, returning to the lower octave when it passes the top E. Saturn moves about 18% of the way around the ecliptic in five years, so its interval is a major third, producing a rising augmented arpeggio. Neptune similarly produces an interval less than a semitone, due to its slow orbit. The notes produced are listed in my post of 3 October.
I entered these notes to make a midi file on a Yamaha Clavinova, assigning french horn to Jupiter, cello to Saturn and tubular bells to Neptune, and then converted the midi to MP3 through the help of a friend using Q-base. By this method, Jupiter and Saturn produce an octave or unison every two notes corresponding to their opposition and conjunction points, and a tritone on the intervening notes corresponding to their square angles. You can barely hear Neptune at the start, but it comes out clearly at the end as it approaches the conjunction which is one tone above the starting note, but Neptune does not return to the bottom note until after 2.1 octaves to highlight the emerging conjunction. This corresponds to the fact that the JSN cycle produces an orderly pattern with each successive conjunction occurring nearly exactly one zodiacal sign later. It is also precisely one twelfth of the period of the earth's zodiacal precession through each sign, which is why I called the piece 'The House of the Age' in homage to the great astrologer Dane Rudhyar. I know astronomers have doubts about Rudhyar's work, and this is another reason that ATM is the appropriate forum for this material. It supports earlier work I have done on a rigorous scientific content in astrology. The 179 year JSN period can be termed 'the pulse of the sun' because it describes the main wave pattern of the solar system centre of mass.

You scientists Maybe think of it as an ATM way of mapping something astronomical?

Although the motions it maps are in themselves old science, the *end result* with maybe a bit more tweaking, could in itself be valuable, rather than just a musical/artistic curiosity.

I believe what Robert is trying to present here, is established data, shown from a new perspective.

Blimey. OK i must admit here, that my grasp of our solar systems workings is of somewhat a limited nature compared to yours.

Saying that, I do think that i'm roughly on the page as you conceptually.

What i might be able bring to the table, is a more advanced way of mapping the data you have to music, but i'd need to grasp what you're doing a bit better before i start fiddling with software at my end.

I'm in the UK, feel free to mail me:

rucook (at) lostboysstudio.com

..& i'll have a bit of a brainstorm.

With respect, Hornblower systematically avoids the ATM content in this thread because it presents a new paradigm for understanding the dynamics of the solar system. He doesn't seem to like the paradigmatic implications of understanding the long term rhythms of the earth and sun within the harmonic framework of planetary cycles. There is an unorthodox theory of celestial mechanics illustrated by the harmony of the spheres, namely that the solar system has systemic planetary resonance collected within the periodic cycle of the centre of mass. The JSN MP3 represents one cycle of the centre of mass.

This is not a matter of like or dislike. Robert Tulip simply has done nothing to convince me that the ratios of the aforementioned planetary orbit periods are indicative of any genuine harmonics or resonances.

Allow me to explain the resonant temporal dimension of this material. For those who have listened to the recording (here), it is apparent that this choice of inputs – Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune (JSN) at time intervals one quarter of the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction cycle, with ecliptic positions ranging over two octaves, produces a result that is far from a serialist twelve tone abstraction, but has obvious harmonic structure, notably with the descending whole tone scale produced by the orderly pattern of the precession of the JS points. With Neptune included, the near exact 5:9:14 ratio of the SN:JS:JN orbits means that the three biggest bodies come back together in a very regular pattern.

The ‘harmonic resonance’ of this pattern can only be seen if we take the step of viewing the solar system as a gestalt, as a single entity. If we imagine looking at the solar system from, say, two light years away, it is likely that the detection of the large planets would be possible by observing their gravitational effect on the position of the sun, which has 500 times their combined mass. For the hypothetical purpose of this thread, we can imagine an alien outpost half way to Centaurus observing our system over thousands of years. What they would detect is a regular wave pattern in the path of the sun, produced by the perturbations of its main planetary flotsam, with a clear 179 year wavelength. This is the sense in which the 5:9:14 ratio of the gas giant orbital conjunctions produces a systemic resonance. My Harmony of the Spheres piece represents one wavelength of this slow epitrochoid wave relation between the position of the sun and the centre of mass.

Now, considering how the Earth may be incorporated into this harmonic gestalt, it is apparent that the 2148 year period of the precession of the equinox through each zodiacal sign (the Age) is twelve times the JSN 179 year period. If we compress the entire precession period of 25764 years (the Great Year) into twelve minutes, each minute will represent an Age, and each five seconds will represent a 179 year House of the Age, speeding up my 52 second piece tenfold. Adding the sun’s equinoctial position to the compressed 179 year composition for horn, cello and bells, what will be the result? Each five second period will contain 36 notes, about seven per second, with a distinct descending whole tone scale motif. The JSN unison return point every five seconds will show a rising whole tone scale, returning to its origin point each minute/Age. Over the twelve minutes representing the Great Year, the instrument representing the equinoctial point will descend by one tone per minute, in a very slow fractal (1/432) of the descending pattern exhibited by Jupiter and Saturn. Speeding up time in this way creates a method enabling observation of structural relationships.

Here we have an accurate summary of the structure of time for our planet. Of course, refinement of this mathematical model against actual empirical data will show perturbations, given that the 179 year JSN pattern moves slowly out of orb over the millennia, and is replaced by successive families of conjunctions. For simplicity, this model presents a basic description which can be refined and analysed to find other patterns within the structure of time.

Some points of clarification. The epitrochoid linked in the last post corresponds precisely to the notes of the composition. The positions where the sun is at the centre of mass are marked by the JS octaves, and the turning points where the sun is most distant from the centre of mass are marked by the JS unison points. The path of the epitrochoid is not just a 2D plot of the four dimensional path of the sun through space, which is modelled here in this spiralling solar system in time diagram by AT Mann. Rather, the centre of mass pulls the sun a small way towards it. This spiral time model views the solar system as like a fractal of our DNA, with the planets corresponding to the bases in an overall harmonic pattern, which I am pointing out can be simply depicted in music.