Question: Why do people ignore peer-reviewed science?



"The bright terrain formed as Ganymede underwent some extreme resurfacing event, probably as a result of the moon's increase in size". -- Prockter, L.M., Icing Ganymede, Nature, Volume 410, Pages 25-27, 2001

Collins et al. (1999) agree that the formation of the grooved terrain on Ganymede was likely the result of post-formation "global expansion".

Collins, G.C., Pappalardo, R.T., & Head, J.W., Surface Stresses Resulting From Internal Differentiation: Application to Ganymede Tectonics, Lunar and Planetary Science XXX, 1695, 1999

"Researchers now believe that Ganymede's more youthful-looking half could be due to a crust that stretched--as has happened in the past few million years on Europa--rather than any sort of icy volcanism, as many had assumed." -- Richard. A. Kerr, 2001

Kerr, R.A., Jupiter's Two-Faced Moon, Ganymede, Falling Into Line, Science, Volume 291, Number 5501, Pages 22-23, 2001

"Since planets and moons did not pop into existence at their current size, everyone agrees they must have expanded at some point in their history." -- Dennis McCarthy, biogeographer/geoscientist, 2005

"Ganymede's grooved terrain likely formed during an epoch of global expansion..." -- Michael T. Bland and Adam P. Showman, 2007

Bland, M.T., and Showman, A.P., The Formation of Ganymede's Grooved Terrain: Numerical Modeling of Extensional Necking Instabilities, Icarus, Volume 189, Issue 2, Pages 439-456, Aug 2007

Martin, P., et al., Why Does Plate Tectonics Occur Only On Earth?, Physics Education, 43, Pages 144-150, 2008

Adams, N., Ganymede Video, Youtube

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"The most likely site for error is in the most fundamental of our beliefs." -- Samuel Warren Carey, geologist, 1988

Total Science, would you like to spell it out for us, rather than make us guess at the point you're making?

Well let me ask you a question, did you look at the peer-reviewed science posted above or did you ignore it?

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"The most likely site for error is in the most fundamental of our beliefs." -- Samuel Warren Carey, geologist, 1988

Total Science appears to believe that many (all?) planets/moons expand over time.

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---"Why do things have to suck so bad?" a friend once asked me.
"Because space is a vacuum and that's a lot of suck." I replied.
(Actual quote)---

I read what I could access.

And what conclusion did you draw after reading multiple corroborating sources published in peer-reviewed scientific journals such as Nature and Science?

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"The most likely site for error is in the most fundamental of our beliefs." -- Samuel Warren Carey, geologist, 1988

That there's reasonable evidence that Ganymede and Europa have expanded.

Nice to meet you...

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"The most likely site for error is in the most fundamental of our beliefs." -- Samuel Warren Carey, geologist, 1988

So which people are ignoring peer-reviewed science in your mind? And which peer-reviewed science do you think they're ignoring?

In my experience on other popular science forums, this peer-reviewed science is either ignored, ridiculed, censored, or conveniently hidden under the label of "pseudoscience."

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"The most likely site for error is in the most fundamental of our beliefs." -- Samuel Warren Carey, geologist, 1988

If Ganymede had a global liquid ocean which then froze, during the freezing the ice will first expand, and then contract, as the temperature drops. Certainly some astonishing cracking will result. If there is an occasional large impact, then there will be melting and re-freezing, perhaps moon-wide. There is plenty of room in conventional physics for modest expansion and contraction on Ganymede, given these conditions. It's that, at least at present, we can't have a geologist walking around on the surface going "Oh, I see what happened!"

Well no one has ever observed this alleged ocean and science is supposed to be about observation.

Impacts cannot account for the amount of surface growth observed.

Any room for immodest expansion?

We don't need to because we have photographs.

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"The most likely site for error is in the most fundamental of our beliefs." -- Samuel Warren Carey, geologist, 1988

Wait a sec. You have presented some material and have some obvious reason to do so. This means they are giving you some conclusion. How about giving us your interpretation of them first?

Without that, what you are asking is, not only a set of opinions, but analysis of others' works, and a dump of the collective knowledge of those who have had years of study in the areas involved. That sounds like too much for a discussion board.

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Numbers are not case sensitive. (me)

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Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

If anyone has an ulterior motive, it's you for moving the thread to "against the mainstream" when clearly Nature and Science are mainstream publications.

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"The most likely site for error is in the most fundamental of our beliefs." -- Samuel Warren Carey, geologist, 1988

The EE theory (theory? idea?) IS ATM.

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---"Why do things have to suck so bad?" a friend once asked me.
"Because space is a vacuum and that's a lot of suck." I replied.
(Actual quote)---

Ganymede is not Earth. The expansion of Ganymede is quite mainstream as demonstrated by multiple corroborating sources published in mainstream peer-reviewed scientific journals like Nature and Science.

So I have to ask the opening question again: why do people ignore peer-reviewed science?

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"The most likely site for error is in the most fundamental of our beliefs." -- Samuel Warren Carey, geologist, 1988

Are you saying EE an EG are two completely separate functions?

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---"Why do things have to suck so bad?" a friend once asked me.
"Because space is a vacuum and that's a lot of suck." I replied.
(Actual quote)---

I'm saying Ganymede is not Earth and everyone who's studied it accepts the mainstream fact that Ganymede is expanding.

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"The most likely site for error is in the most fundamental of our beliefs." -- Samuel Warren Carey, geologist, 1988

Being published does not mean being accepted.

Anybody with some good facts and ideas can be published. That does not mean those facts and ideas have merit when it comes to accepted science.

The whole idea of being published is to put out the idea to see if it has legs. Many do not.

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Numbers are not case sensitive. (me)

The idea that Ganymede has maintained a fixed-size is so absurd and so against the mainstream that it has never been published.

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"The most likely site for error is in the most fundamental of our beliefs." -- Samuel Warren Carey, geologist, 1988

I am not saying Ganymede is fixed. Your interpretation of why is what I'm arguing against.

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---"Why do things have to suck so bad?" a friend once asked me.
"Because space is a vacuum and that's a lot of suck." I replied.
(Actual quote)---

I am not specifically talking about Ganymede, I am referring to your comment about what mainstream science is.

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Numbers are not case sensitive. (me)

We hardly ignore it, we just read it correctly, unlike you.

Did you actually read the stuff you link to? The expansion phase was during a limited period when Ganymede was in its differentiation period, i.e. the creation of a metal core, a rocky mantle and an ice/water outer layer.

Clearly, they are talking about an epoch long long ago, no growing Earth theory for Ganymede.

Yes, and that is still going on, but the stretching does not come from a growing inside, it comes from tidal workings on the icy layer. For example, the cycloidal marks on Europa are now well explained by tidal flexing. This is the same process.

This is such a stupid comment, I can hardly believe you link to it. A growing Earth page, not really mainstream peer reviewed, but anywhooooo. Naturally, during the creation of the solar system the planets "grew" in that they obtained more mass through inelastic collisions in the primordial cloud. This is NOT expansion.


"Ganymede's grooved terrain likely formed during an epoch of global expansion..." -- Michael T. Bland and Adam P. Showman, 2007

Bland, M.T., and Showman, A.P., The Formation of Ganymede's Grooved Terrain: Numerical Modeling of Extensional Necking Instabilities, Icarus, Volume 189, Issue 2, Pages 439-456, Aug 2007
[/quote]

Dunno, where zou got the quote from Bland & Adam, but the next link has exactly NOTHING to do with an expanding Ganymede, but again with a the time of differrentiation. Naturally, there can be a time that the inner part expands because of extreme heating, which I guess would occur during differntiation.

You really need to come up with more convincing evidence that the Earth and the planets are expanding.

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Any comments in glorious red are to be considered in ModeratorMode.


善數, 不用籌策 (shàn shù, bù yòng chóu cè)
He who is good at counting, uses no counting tools
“A good scientist has freed himself of concepts and keeps his mind open to what is”
道德經, 二十七 (dào dé jīng, 27)

Clearly it's you who have reading comprehension difficulties.

"Researchers now believe that Ganymede's more youthful-looking half could be due to a crust that stretched--as has happened in the past few million years on Europa--rather than any sort of icy volcanism, as many had assumed." -- Richard. A. Kerr, 2001

Exactly what part of "rather than any sort of icy volcanism, as many had assumed" don't you understand?

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"The most likely site for error is in the most fundamental of our beliefs." -- Samuel Warren Carey, geologist, 1988

So, they ruled out volcanism, why does that rule out other possibilities like plate techtonics, tidal forces and others?

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Numbers are not case sensitive. (me)

I think few people really grasp tidal forces. Perhaps this is part of the reason for belief in an EG.

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---"Why do things have to suck so bad?" a friend once asked me.
"Because space is a vacuum and that's a lot of suck." I replied.
(Actual quote)---

It's obviously not that simple. I can assure you tidal forces are well understood.

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"The most likely site for error is in the most fundamental of our beliefs." -- Samuel Warren Carey, geologist, 1988

If you had read the opening post you would know the answer to that question. Plate tectonics does not exist on Ganymede.

Martin, P., et al., Why Does Plate Tectonics Occur Only On Earth?, Physics Education, 43, Pages 144-150, 2008

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"The most likely site for error is in the most fundamental of our beliefs." -- Samuel Warren Carey, geologist, 1988

That there is evidence for expansion on Ganymede doesn't mean there is evidence for expansion on Earth.

It also doesn't mean that the expansion of Ganymede is in anyway connected to your own ATM mechanism for expansion on Earth.

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All Moderation in Purple