This thread originated from an idea I had while reading JohnD's post, here, about Why Do We Have An Atmosphere?

Put simply, what if life originated on Mars, was carried to Earth via meteoric ejecta billions of years ago, and again, via intelligent, humanoidal space travel millions of years ago, perhaps when the Martians were realiziing it was only a matter of time before their planet became a dead planet? Or perhaps they were merely branching out, doing what we're doing as we're planning our Martian trips.

Regardless, (and here's the spooky part), what if the Chicxulub Crater was the result of an intentionally caused impact as part of a Martian-forming process???

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If I set the budget, we'd have Ares and more. Unfortunately, I don't set the budget, and Ares is just too expensive and too far out for us to accomplish our goals within the budget we were given.

If we halt the ISS, all versions of Ares, and transport Orion and Altair aboard DIRECTv3's Jupiter family of Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles, we just might make it back to the Moon by 2020.

What happened to them then?
Are we their descendants? Gulp.

Congrats on choice of thread title, it made me go... wha!? Nice.

The question is, did they succeed? Or did Earth's pre-existing life wipe out the Martians as soon as they set foot here? (Achoo!)

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The idea that life originated on Mars is not really an against-the-mainstream idea, mugaliens; more like a possibility which has not yet been ruled out. If Earth-life originated on Mars and was transferred to Earth at a very early stage, then nothing much changes in the history of life on Earth, in my opinion; only if life on Mars persisted, and seeded the Earth repeatedly and over a long period, might this possibility be radically different to abiogenesis on Earth.

The chance of humanoids evolving separately on Mars is miniscule, by the way, and Mars became uninhabitable long before the Dinosaurs, so the martia-forming thing doesn't work, unfortunately..

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Because this would require the same coincidence of accidents that led to us here? Statistically improbable? Just enquiring...

Actually, I can probably find my answers in the Must Aliens be Alien thread?

(You may like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_Against_the_Chtorr )

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The term in more common usage is "Areoforming". Sounds classier, IMHO.

This is the general idea, and the reason I put it in ATM was a "what if" along the lines of Martians seeding the Earth intentionally, over millennia (or it's million, if not billion-year equivalents - i.e. very long-lived species).

Not separately. Rather, all life, including humanoid, evolving on Mars, then seeding Earth, while also Martia-forming it by diverting asteroids to change it's climate.

The seeding may have been done via two methods - unintentional, via meteoric ejecta carrying microbes to Earth, and intentional, via the introduction of ever more advanced forms of life to Earth so as to ultimately support the level of life that had risen on Mars.

It's conceivable that 500 million years ago even the driest climate on Earth was like the Congo is today, and Martians needed something a bit drier, at least close to, if not equivalent to James Bond's version of a martini. And with their rarified atmosphere, Earth's 25 psi climate simply wouldn't do, so they slammed a few asteroids into the planet, and after a few hundred years for each, reassessed the conditions, repeating as necessary.

Once some desertification (aridation) had been achieved, along with rarification of the atmosphere, migrations began.

This scenario actually supports what we see in the geological record as apparent explosions of various species, where long, boring records of steady-state existence is punctuated by radical changes, including the emergence of entirely new and radically different species.

And just as it appears the widespread folklore of a great flood may very well have actually happened, so might the many-cultured references to various god's have risen from proto-primates. It may be that various primates were sent here much earlier, both to establish themselves, as well as test cases, to ensure the long-term viability/stability of later humanoid migrations. Or it's possible they were radically different, totally unable to survive on Earth, and thus designed primates in their image, primates that could survive on Earth. It could be that their various attempts at different designs descended to modern apes, including orangs, chimps, apes, neanderthals, cro-magnons, and sapiens.

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If I set the budget, we'd have Ares and more. Unfortunately, I don't set the budget, and Ares is just too expensive and too far out for us to accomplish our goals within the budget we were given.

If we halt the ISS, all versions of Ares, and transport Orion and Altair aboard DIRECTv3's Jupiter family of Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles, we just might make it back to the Moon by 2020.

If via the intentional method, why did they seed only life, and not life and technology? What happened to all that asteroid slamming stuff?

Adding a taxon into a biosphere without any perceptable evidence of its unrelatedness to the existing taxa (primates into mammals in this case) would be technology sufficiently advanced ...

Exactly! Where have they stored all that knowledge? Why is it hidden in the first place?

They're an old, long-lived race. Although Earth's primordial ooze was originally formed from bacteria-laden Martian ejecta, which gave rise to all non-red blood cell animals, and sporing plants, all red-blood cell animals and seeding plants were Martian products designed to introduce biological fauna and flora compatible with the Martians' biology. Because all came original Martian life, many of the original life forms, such as mullosk, proved compatible with Martian biology.

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If I set the budget, we'd have Ares and more. Unfortunately, I don't set the budget, and Ares is just too expensive and too far out for us to accomplish our goals within the budget we were given.

If we halt the ISS, all versions of Ares, and transport Orion and Altair aboard DIRECTv3's Jupiter family of Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles, we just might make it back to the Moon by 2020.

No problem (well, not much) with a common biosphere, but it's still non-trivial to introduce even a single species into a separately evolved environment, and conceal the "joins". Occam?

Orangutans and chimps are apes. The fossil evidence is, I think, sufficiently complete that this possibility can be ruled out, unless you go awfully far back (Aegyptopithecus, for example, dates from around 35 mya). It seems to me that the same evidence that disproves creationism serves to confute this idea, and for many of the same reasons.

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I'm pretty sure that any such scenario would be obvious by inexplicable discontinuities both in fossil history and DNA patterns. But it's fun to think of.

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" -- Charles Darwin
"Your right to hold an opinion is not being contested. Your expectation that it be taken seriously is." -- Jason Thompson
Meet the OOONG TOE.

That's the spirit. Think of a humanoid race that measures birthdays in centuries. Perhaps ejecta lead to the early panspermia, but for the last billion years they've been doing it deliberately. How would there be discontinuities if the Martians were the ones introducing incremental changes?

Think on...

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If I set the budget, we'd have Ares and more. Unfortunately, I don't set the budget, and Ares is just too expensive and too far out for us to accomplish our goals within the budget we were given.

If we halt the ISS, all versions of Ares, and transport Orion and Altair aboard DIRECTv3's Jupiter family of Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles, we just might make it back to the Moon by 2020.

Heh, now you're adding periodical 'updates' to hide the DNA/fossil evidence, while I understood your original premise to be a pre-existing world based on one old seeding, followed by a far more recent 'adjusting' using the Chicxulub meteor to clear the playing field for the Mars exodus. Someone more knowledgeable than me might calculate how often those 'updates' would need to be done to hide artificial changes in DNA history. Fun idea though.

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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" -- Charles Darwin
"Your right to hold an opinion is not being contested. Your expectation that it be taken seriously is." -- Jason Thompson
Meet the OOONG TOE.

Mars is inhabited by humanoids now. What we are mistaking for global warming is actually the first stage in Martiaforming - the removal of most of the atmosphere. The Martians are doing this in response to our probes, before we do it to them.

And there's an international government conspiracy to hide the true facts.

And the UFO's keep track of progress on the Martiaforming.

And if you don't believe this, then why was the Weekly World News driven out of business?

Aha, proof positive!

(I don't think I'll sign this. They might be watching.)

Hello, and thank you all for allowing your vivid imagination a moment in the sun. I'm new here so I will make a concerted effort to ****-off as many people as possible right out of the gate just to make as many friends as I can before I let fly.
First of all, what is the consensus on the Hale Crater civilization evidence as captured by the ESA Mars Express flyby photos? These photos frankly disturb the dickens out of me whether they are faked or not. If they are the real deal and Mars was or is populated by critters capable of constructing such metropoli (there you go, a two-cent word), why do I feel so incredibly elated at this revelation? If the photos are dupes and I'm a gullible chump, why would anyone go to such extreme lengths to play such a hoax? I've been jamming my head over this for several days and am coming-up with several imagination threads that seem to include the ancient Egyptians and their pyramids; "soul" migration; creationism coexisting and dovetailing comfortably with evolution and what this implies for the quasi-human species that infests this (Earth) planet. Any takers?

what photographs are you talking about? Without knowing how can we give an opinion?

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The ESA (European Space Agency) posts on it's website some dandy photos of the Crater Hale. If you Google "Hale Crater Civilization" you will be directed to a slew of links that go on at some length about a ruined city discovered by the ESA probe. Also, if you go to YouTube and search for the same thing, there is a video with instructions on how you too can download the photos direct from ESA and find out what's what. The (blatherskyte) skeptics have had a field day with this, but as the same ruins are visible on many different photos, and those who bother to look find not only this evidence, but more and more items that point to the same conclusion, it is very hard for me to dismiss this as a fraud. But before I lose my mind over this, I need someone else to see this and give me some feedback. And, bye the way, the ping.

I think these are Hale crater imaging artifacts previously discussed:

Can you hear me Major Tom....

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Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

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So, it's not ESA that claim there is a city there?

I see.

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There is no known algorythm that can produce the kind of falsification of data needed to generate what's evident in these photos. Please excuse me if I am opening a topic already covered in this thread, but that's what new people do. Have you explored the information and do you know for a fact that these images are false? If so, how do you know this? I don't mean to be a crashing bore here, but please don't tell me that just because the topic was "covered" "before" that there is no new information to be revealed.

-Swoop- ESA claims nothing. Gratefully, the messenger makes no statement as to the veracity of the message, but please, before dismissing the issue, go look for yourself. Not wanting to be a lightening rod for criticism, I'm somewhat hesitant to proffer an opinion one way or the other, but please go look and then tell me what you think. And, again, thanks for the ping.

You haven't presented anything here but it sounds like you're discussing something we did look into before, hence the link I provided. Why don't you read through the thread previously linked and if you think you have something new start your own thread?

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

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-Van Rijn- Thank you for the referral and I did indeed look at the thread just now. If you'alls are really into discussing the prospect of 'martia-forming' planet Earth, I would think the ESA evidence would lent tremendous credence to your hypothesis. The Crater Hale thread you referenced is rife with idiots, and only possessed of one thinking individual. With your kind permission, let's review. Posit that life as we know it is based on panspermia; that planetary water came from cometary collisions and that evolution is fact. Now posit that every known religion postulates a higher being or form of being that is accessable through meditative introspection and the intervention of some form of guide, abbeit prophet, messiah, angel or mystic(al) master. So you close your eyes and look into the darkness and where do you go? Is inner space all that different from outer space? Say Mars got bonked with some interplanetary bacteria a buncha billion years ago and subsequently evolved a civilization that produced a few individuals who got their pyramid energy in gear and founded the early Egyptian civilization here on earth, using the first two monkeys who'd evolved enough to have brains with sufficient neurons to harbor a "soul" transferred from Martian origin. Subsequently Mars endured a catastrophy and everybody perished or just split in their astral bodies and came here, dropping-in on human brains open to the idea of housing a renter. Now, close as we are to the 2012 terminus, things are beginning to come to the 'surface', as it were, and we're being prepared to all go home in a little green boat, or yellow submarine if you prefer.

But, OK, if this bugs you remember that if you have an invisible elf in your back yard and I agree that you do, I'm twice as nuts as you are because you may be delusional, but I _know_ better.

Peace and love,
Billy G. Shears

He left the building, Sparky - right after Elvis. Might want to power down and save your tubes.

Gotta love those compression artifacts.

But when they start looking like this, I'll sit up and take notice:

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If I set the budget, we'd have Ares and more. Unfortunately, I don't set the budget, and Ares is just too expensive and too far out for us to accomplish our goals within the budget we were given.

If we halt the ISS, all versions of Ares, and transport Orion and Altair aboard DIRECTv3's Jupiter family of Shuttle-Derived Launch Vehicles, we just might make it back to the Moon by 2020.

-Mugaliens- They do look like that, but in better detail, and the Crater Hale data are not artifacts. If they were, they'd be all over the image, not just in one spot. Go get the .tiff files. There's not one blinkin' artifact in 'em. And what's Elvis got to do with it? Was he a Martian too?

Like what I said, eh? But, I can't agree, there were no idiots in the thread, including the initial promotor, who came away with a better understanding of image artifacts.

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I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

Disclaimer: Avatar is not an official NASA image and does not imply any specific interplanetary or interstellar capability.

The Leif Ericson Cruiser