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Old 08-January-2009, 09:40 PM
PlayStationX PlayStationX is offline
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Default Particle-Particle Simulation: Magnetic/Electric Fields & N-body Orbitals

it is interesting i could not find many particle-particle simulators that simulate electrical fields even thought dynamics is pretty similar to that of planetary orbitals. there are few i could find but they are mostly 2D and defining problem in mathematical/geometrical terms, with sin/cos or some harmonic oscillator functions. none, however, i could find that simulate CLASSICAL ELECTRODYNAMICS (Stochastic El.Dynm. - SED) in 3D n-body system and even less to include MAGNETIC FIELDS, which are the effect of moving electric fields, says Lorentz and friends...


this is kind of situation and type of particles i want to simulate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ron_motion.jpg

Quote:
what is the force behind covalent bond? what came first, chicken or egg?

Merovingian:
- You see, there is only one constant. One universal. It is the only real truth - Causality. Action, reaction.
- Cause and effect.


how wonderful,
the mystery and essence of Life, Universe and Everything lies in contradiction - the cause that is an effect of itself. ah, beautiful self-emerging craziness... im talking about field forces here, magnetic and electric.


...are magnetic dipoles the essence of Life, Universe and Everything? these dipoles would then need to be infinitely divisible while retaining its original properties, including the Yin-Yang duality, which is also kind of holographic quality, fractalous smell it has.... but, what the hell does it all mean?

ehmm, would you not think infinity goes both ways? infinite microcosmos, as well as macrocosmos... did you really think humans are on some "bottom" of grand scale of dimensions? hahaha... it's funny because its true, but not in the spatial sense, size does not matter scale-wise.


well, if there is any meaning in this blabbering, then let it be that universe is ANALOG, rather then digital... so, these particle accelerators and search for the smallest indivisible "atom" from which everything is composed will always be futile and more and more expensive, until it causes black hole and doom us all. science is great!


...its like smashing a clock off the wall in a hope to figure out how it works,
by looking at all the broken pieces flying around.



http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/PHYS1169...t_files/k7.jpg

Equations: http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/PHYS1169...magnetism.html
You may have mused in the past, why one of my ....., or my girlfriend's .... is smaller than the other? well, look at that photo above, CHIRALITY is built-in. this universe is rather quier, it pulls on one side more than on the other. breaking of the symmetry...




- CHARGES & MAGNETO-ELECTRIC FIELD FORCES -


Magnetic Fields - test1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUNP4z-Vaac


Electric and Magnetic Fields: Positron & Electron do the helix dance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpI-klsq9nQ


DIPOLE MAGNETIC FIELDS due to moving electric charges (not spin yet)... HydrogZen-2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bIaGw3V6OQ


HydrogZen-1, Spontaneous formation of NEUTRAL Quazi-Hydrogen atoms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYBMrGM6IpM



- MASS & GRAVITY FIELD FORCE -


Chaos in a Box: Inverse Square and Fractal kind of Randomness
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...69507182595610




little twitching worms,
all right, lets see how does it compare...
http://history.fnal.gov/pictures/VCVol7No11_pic9.jpg
http://www.bo.infn.it/antares/bolle_proc/foto.html



in essence,
i hope to be able to manage and somehow force these virtual atoms to aggregate with the use of "covalent bonds" by simulating it all with classical mechanics rather than quantum, which is contradictory to the "analog universe" somewhat....


anyway, any idea? any similar software out there?

Last edited by HenrikOlsen; 09-January-2009 at 08:27 PM.. Reason: Replaced hotlinked images with links
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Old 09-January-2009, 09:56 AM
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You made the same post to the Physics Forum
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=2027237

Why do you expect to get a different response here?
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Old 09-January-2009, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Why do you expect to get a different response here?
i find that question rather strange. it implies that you think same people are here and there. it also implies that you expect not too many "random" people will reply.... and since you are moderator i guess you know better than me.


so, to answer your question - i simply expected different people to be on different forums, hence increasing the chances to get some help or answer.


why do you ask?
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Old 09-January-2009, 12:06 PM
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Michael Noonan Michael Noonan is offline
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Question

What is the path of the positron and electron pairs ... a straight two dimension flat plane path or conical indicating a spiral in three dimensions?
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Old 09-January-2009, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
What is the path of the positron and electron pairs ... a straight two dimension flat plane path or conical indicating a spiral in three dimensions?
that is kind of what im asking too.

in my simulation they do 3D spirals (helix), thought i think i saw some flat ones too.

i like that question because i noticed orbits do tend to settle in one plane, not sure for how long can that last, but i do not see reason for that, esspecially if there are more than 2 bodies in orbit.


thought, positron and electron should actually dematerialize each other since positron is antiparticle. the question is then - what is the size of an electron and positron, how easy is for them to collide really?
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Old 09-January-2009, 03:04 PM
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Smile

Well I noticed the pair emerged at an angle. So the direction of particle pair creation was not in either the same direction nor the opposite direction. I can speculate on this line of thought but too far because of my rather ATM ideas other than I find it interesting. Interesting perhaps to the point that the angle is important to the non annihilation of the particle pair.
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Old 09-January-2009, 05:55 PM
mugaliens mugaliens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayStationX View Post
...and since you are moderator i guess you know better than me.
I'd say that last part is a fairly safe bet...

Quote:
i simply expected different people to be on different forums, hence increasing the chances to get some help or answer.
Don't think for a second there are different people there vs here. With some people that's true. With others, well... Some of us tend to be all over the board.

Quote:
why do you ask?
Double-posting is against the rules. The reason behind it involves a couple of things.

First, if you post the same thread in two different places, you're splitting the responses. Most people would prefer one conversation rather than two.

Second, if you split threads, many people will post in both, increasing the board's bandwidth and storage requirements.

Third, most admins have taken care to ensure the sections of their board cover a broad array of topics pertinant to the board's purpose, while minimizing both overlap and gaps between the sections. When you split a thread, you're almost always posting at least of of them in the wrong section.

By the way - welcome to the board!
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Old 09-January-2009, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayStationX View Post
i find that question rather strange. it implies that you think same people are here and there. it also implies that you expect not too many "random" people will reply.... and since you are moderator i guess you know better than me.
The response you got on the other forum was what could be expected from physics savvy people who try to understand what you're asking and who try to help you by telling you where your assumptions will cause your model to fail to have any relationship with the real world.

As I know we have many people here who know a lot about physics, I expect the same questions to be asked and the same objections to be raised, especially since your post wasn't modified to take into account what you were told over there.

Incidentally, several of the images you linked to are on servers whose licenses forbid hotlinking, and as that's against our rules I've replaced them with links.
Don't do this again.

This will be a good time to read our rules.
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Andrew Vachss, Autobiographical essay
Trying to make sense of computers, The Error Log.
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Old 09-January-2009, 08:54 PM
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Click HERE to read the rules for posting.
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Old 09-January-2009, 10:35 PM
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what in the world is going on here?

three moderators clogging my thread instead of to try and answer questions in OP, or at least argument these statements and threats.


Quote:
Double-posting is against the rules.
im sorry, i really do not know much about forums, but how do you explain that posting on two different forums is "Double-posting"?

even if two forums were owned by the same organization, i see no logic in that being "Double-posting", even less the reason to criticize someone about it? what damage did i cause? to whom?

Quote:
When you split a thread, you're almost always posting at least of of them in the wrong section.
i do not understand what are you referring to , how did i split thread? what thread?



Quote:
The response you got on the other forum was what could be expected from physics savvy people who try to understand what you're asking and who try to help you by telling you where your assumptions will cause your model to fail to have any relationship with the real world.
i do not see how is any of your concern what is going on with some other forum, what is the problem here? are you saying im wasting space? am i bothering someone?

what harm do you say i did? to whom?



Quote:
As I know we have many people here who know a lot about physics, I expect the same questions to be asked and the same objections to be raised, especially since your post wasn't modified to take into account what you were told over there.
objections?

what are you talking about? why would anyone object to question?

who does not like the question can log-out and go dance. what harm is in question?

why objecting to questions that you can as easily ignore... and how about ANSWERING questions, i thought that was the purpose of public forums...



Quote:
Incidentally, several of the images you linked to are on servers whose licenses forbit hotlinking, and as that's against our rules I've replaced them with links.
Don't do this again.

This will be a good time to read our rules.
you sound pretty threatening, i suppose that is according to rules?

none of the images are licensed against linking, what are you talking about?


Quote:
Click HERE to read the rules for posting.
huh? i do not even know if you are talking to me.

how can i possibly know what rules i am breaking if you will not tell me? is this some game? a joke?

what harm did i do? what rules did i break? who and why got offended?
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Old 09-January-2009, 10:46 PM
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Wikimedia has an explicit policy that forbids hot-linking images.
So do we.
Quote:
8. Hotlinking

Try to avoid putting in links to images directly from someone else's website. This can add a lot to their bandwidth, and then the host has to pay for it. In other words, if you see an image you like on an astronomy site, put in a link to that site, but don't use the [IMG] tags so the image loads into your post from their site directly. If you really want an image in your post, put it in a public site someplace and link to it from there. One exception would be from sites like NASA or universities, where bandwidth is not such an issue. If you own the image, then you can upload it to the board yourself.
The objection I was referring to is the one that covalent bonds can't be simulated precisely using classical electromagnetism, something you apparently didn't understand.

Anyway, after reading your post in more detail it looks like you're basing your concept of a model on physical ideas that are not really part of mainstream physics, so I've moved the thread to a more appropriate place.

Please take extra notice of the rules pertaining to that forum.
Quote:
13. Alternative Concepts and Conspiracy Theories

If you have some idea which goes against commonly-held astronomical theory, or think UFOs are among us, then you are welcome to argue it here. Before you do, though READ THIS THREAD FIRST. This is very important. Then, if you still want to post your idea, you will do so politely, you will not call people names, and you will defend your arguments. Direct questions must be answered in a timely manner.

People will attack your arguments with glee and fervor here; that's what science and scientists do. If you cannot handle that sort of attack, then maybe you need to rethink your theory, too. Remember: you came here. It's our job to attack new theories. Those that are strong will survive, and may become part of mainstream science.

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 09-January-2009, 10:58 PM
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Quote:

huh? i do not even know if you are talking to me.

how can i possibly know what rules i am breaking if you will not tell me? is this some game? a joke?

what harm did i do? what rules did i break? who and why got offended?
My post contained a link to the rules for posting on the board.
here it is again :
http://www.bautforum.com/about-baut/...ing-board.html

It is drawn to your attention when you first register on the board.
It's a good idea to read them.
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Old 10-January-2009, 12:08 AM
peter eldergill peter eldergill is offline
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OP has been banned as a sock puppet, so you may as well close this thread, unless anyone finds it interesting I suppose

Pete
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Old 10-January-2009, 12:33 AM
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Good idea. If anyone wishes to reopen it and pick up the baton, just PM a mod.
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