Man, you guys are a tough crowd!
I am not going to dignify my replies with a list of books! Give me a break. If the request was sincere rather than making me have to PROVE myself, I'd gladly share that information.

The fact remains: ancient acknowledgements of OUR modern discoveries are plentiful and mysterious!

Why don't you put down your copy of 'NASA weekly newsletter' and pick up a book or two about ancient discoveries/times?

For starters; read up on the Mayans....Sumerians.....ancient Chinese, Greek, Hopi cultures.....

Not interested you say? Well, don't shot the messenger then.
I am claiming FACTS!
Not opinions!

I enclose a photo of the oldest known artifact from 6000 BC depicting the symbol for DNA.


Whether you choose NOT to believe it.. is not MY problem.
I am not on a crusade to persuade anyone. I thought you'd be more opened minded and where we can exchange information and banter back and forth. Not challange one another!
I feel like I am at a Salem Witch trial ready to get burnt.

This forum really stinks... not real 'people-of-a-different approach' friendly.

And to think this all started when I claimed that Planet X (and other celestrial bodies) have been acknowledged in ancient past....and you want me to PROVE that? I am not your human library. Read up on it yourself!

All we want is proof. If you can provide it, and it checks out, we'll have to believe it. Until then, sorry.

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Quaeso quousque humi defixa tua mens erit? Nonne aspicis, quae in templa veneris?

...and it checks out, by what... Your standards?

It's there and it checks out with plenty of people!

You don't WANT to know, you just want to fling more criticism at me! Who needs that?

You are a bunch of wanna be scientists it seems. The nuts and bolts, tangerible type of thinking!

I tend to favor the more grounded sector of philosophers; theorist and logician who live more on a hunch and inner feeling than a test tube and petry dish!

Although my examples of Planet X and DNA in ancient times ARE written in stone!

There are also hieroglyphics of celestrial bodies gracing many caves....way before a damn telescope was invented. You want me to prove that too? Look it up yourself. It's there...believe that! If you don't even KNOW that, well you either don't want to know or you are chosing not to know.

If you didn't have me up against the wall from the get go.... like I said before, I'd be happy to forward all this information (that's booked-mark right here on my PC). which is no hassel whats so ever for me to provide......
But I CHOSE not to waste one more font in this forum.
Peace and light!

I'll accept it if it passes the scientific process. Those are not my standards. They are the standards of the scientific community. They exist so that we can seperate fact from fiction and misnomers.

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Quaeso quousque humi defixa tua mens erit? Nonne aspicis, quae in templa veneris?

Hello Blaze,

The problem with your approach is that it isn't scientific. You are posting on a board that is, quite literally, full of people who regularly utilize the scientific method.

We all know that humans are pattern-seeking animals. We are quite amazing at it. It has helped our species survive and evolve.

Now, the problem with this amazing gift is that we often perceive patterns that are not there. We see a helix on an artifact, and this is supposed to prove that the ancients understood DNA. I am sorry, but it is insufficent evidence to conclude that. The shape of a helix is a far cry from understanding molecular biology. You have detected a pattern that, in all likelihood, isn't real.

That is why science is so important; it is a process designed to *minimize* those errors.

You have some interesting information regarding what some people claim the ancient Mayans and other civilizations knew about the cosmos. Well, they did know quite a lot. They had lots of time, and wonderful conditions, to study the skies with the most basic of instruments. They carefully noted patterns, such as the changing of the seasons and the solstices. They were quite religious about it.

They also, like we ourselves, were fantastic storytellers and pattern seekers. The made pictures out of dots in the sky to explain what they saw. They passed that information on; first by voice, and later by writ.

I think you are hard pressed to prove that the ancients knew *more* than we do currently about astronomy. I think that is a stretch. I think you are the victim of 20/20 hindsight; looking back at patterns left by ancient cultures, and fitting what we currently know about the sky into them. That is an easy mistake to make.

If stories of the ancients regarding a rogue planet are enough to confirm its existence, what about stories of the Greek Gods? What of the Cyclops? What about other creatures of myth? What about leprechauns? Surely *all* these ideas cannot be correct; you need *evidence* to discern the correct ideas from the incorrect ideas.

The light of better evidence often shines on ideas, and necesitates that we change those ideas. They have to change, or be discarded in the light of better evidence. Ptolemeic Astronomy withstood the tests of time for centuries; but was ultimately proved false; unless you believe in a Terra-centric solar system.

The tools are better; the measurements are more precise than ever before. We see far deeper than our ancestors ever dreamt of looking. And although many of the patterns they perceived have been confirmed and refined; many more have been discarded as false.

What evidence could possibly come to light that would allow you to dismiss Planet X as another in a long line of fanciful tales? How can your idea *be* falsified?

Thank you,

Jonathan
-It doesn't matter what I believe. What matters is what I can prove.-

Echo latimer. How is that the symbol for dna? It wasn't the symbol used in my bio book...

We didn't put you up against the wall, you did.

Translation: I don't really have any proof. I can't back up any of my wild claims. You are all a waste of my time.

Heh. The true mark of a professional [/sarcasm]. When asked for proof or confirmation, call the other guys jerks and run away.

Yay! Carved in stone! It must be true!!!

Oh goodie! I can see celestial objects right now, out side, without a telescope. If I find a stone to carve them in, does that make me a genius too?

I think you mean less grounded. And, the theorist and the logician rely much less upon hunches and inner feelings than you think they do.

Yes, I must put down my modern knowledge because having an appreciation for modern achievments and an appreiciation for ancient acheivements must be mutually exclusive... [-X

Where are they coming from? Just because you say something, even if you know it is true, doesn't make it a fact. Facts come with evidence, so far, your opinions have been unsupported.

Hey! Don't shoot me man, I'm just the messenger. If you want us to listen to your theories, it would certainly help your case if you had any evidence.[/quote]

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Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.

So, anything old that is in a spiral is the symbol for DNA?

Okay.

Also, are you sure that Stonehenge hasn't been rearranged a few times since it was built?

Maybe you don't have to prove what you claim, but I believe you will at least have to provide some evidence of it in order to have a discussion.

FYI, the picture of the libation cup is not evidence that ancient people knew about DNA.

Actually, I think there are a few "real" scientists on this board as well. "Real" meaning those that did the schooling and now earn a living being a scientist.

Now, I , am a historian. Ad I have yet to find any texts that I have read that has evidence for acient cultures discovering the structure of DNA.

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"The big yellow one's the Sun!!!!"

Wow, Blaze didn't remain calm.

How does that vase/cup depict DNA anyway? :-?

I think if Blaze considers the attack of his ideas and rationale for PX a personal affront he made a mistake posting here. Maybe he thought this was the Planet X believers forum. Oh well, let me get back to my 'NASA weekly newsletter' .. this week's issue is literally out of this world! :wink:

I think Blaze will be MUCH happier posting on GLP.

Bye, Blaze.

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Standing on the shoulders of giants...

Where he will be joined by those who blindly accept anyone's say-so, with the exception of the hated debunkers, who are actively attacked for the heresy of wanting evidence.

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Help! Marxist literary critics are following me!

I don't know about that. If Blaze was meek enough to think that replies from little ol' us were vicious attacks, GLP would destroy him.

Where did he come up with the date, for that matter? 6000 BC? I don't think so. More like 2000 BC.

it was stuff like this that used to get me alarmed. gotta admit it looks fairly convincing anyway. as long as you think no one knows how to use photoshop that is.

It's quite obvious how they learned about these scientifically advanced ideas.


ops: :P #-o [-X :^o
But seriously, no. The ancients did not know about the outer planets or DNA or other similar things and to say so is laughable. Just because someone says they knew about these things does not make it so. Just because they have a drawing with circles in it doesn't mean they know all about planetary orbits. 365 day calendar sure. All you need to do is watch the sun to figure that out. There's a difference between knowing about the sun and knowing about Pluto.
I once saw a cloud that looks like Saturn. It's no wonder that people with great imagination see orbits and dna in swirling drawings. That doesn't prove they knew anything except how to draw curves.

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I must not PX. PX is the mind-killer. I will face my PX. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the PX has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

Wow. My brief visit back here is so full of deja vu. This is exactly what all the woowooo believers say once they're asked to provide evidence. And the people on this board aways ask for evidence.
It's one thing to have faith in something unseen. To believe in something you cant prove. ... It's another thing to go around saying that it's a fact that ancients know about pluto and dna and not provide solid 'nuts and bolts' evidence. I have faith in something unseen. I have faith that your so called evidence is an extream interpretation that you distort to fill you own desires of what you want it to be. Dont feel too bad, that's human nature. But wanting something to be a certain way does not make it so. [-X [-( So have all the hunchs and inner feelings you want, but don't go around saying they're fact.

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I must not PX. PX is the mind-killer. I will face my PX. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the PX has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

Good to see you again WolfKC! =D> =D> =D>

__________________
Hanlon's Razor - "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Asimov's addition - "Or ignorance."

"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
-- Charles Babbage

Blaze: Dude, if you are going to state that you have read all of these books that document the wonders and super-knowledge of the ancients, the least you could do is provide a list of them. It's not like the stuff is common knowledge, after all. I could go on aboot the cool stuff that went into the Saturn V rockets, but I'd be looked at funny if I didn't include a list of references of where I got my information from. Otherwise, my peers could easily think I am BSing them.

Quote: "It's my understanding after reading many books about ancient knowledge, they DID acknowledge Pluto.....(and Nibiru).....not to mention DNA that we only lately discovered!! "

Like I said. WHAT books? WHO wrote them?

Quote: "The fact remains: ancient acknowledgements of OUR modern discoveries are plentiful and mysterious!"

Your opinion does not make fact. References? Evidence?

Quote: "I am not going to dignify my replies with a list of books! Give me a break. If the request was sincere rather than making me have to PROVE myself, I'd gladly share that information."

You are the one with the wild hypothesis. YOU have to prove that the current understanding is wrong. It is impossible to have a strong, solid arguement when you to not provide evidence that can be referenced or checked by anyone else. "I saw it in my dreams" is not evidence. "Oh, it's in 'The World In Front of Us', written by John Doe 1999, page 236, paragraph 2," can at least be referenced.

BAroxMysox, I am curious, what am I supposed to see in your picture?

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Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future.

--Niels Bohr, Danish Physicist.

a supposed second sun. saw it with some other PX pics.

It is an intersting picture, but.. it's still a picture. Pictures have all kinds of problems reproducing reality. In this case, light from the real sun reflected off of the optics inside the lens and created a 'second sun' on the film. However, if this second sun was real, you would be able to see it with the naked eye. So, the chorus for PX pictures starts to play... lens flare, lens flare...

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Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.

exactly. i just wish i'd learned the truth about it earlier.

Yes that picture is a fake!
Here's the real picture.



:P :^o

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I must not PX. PX is the mind-killer. I will face my PX. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the PX has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

Nice to see you back on board Wolf! No pun intended :^o

lol. well, now i'm REALLY concerned. :P

I look at the sun alot and the only thing i can see is blue afterwards :x

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im getting a 32 inch... but still... Join my site please i need some ideas and some mods,
9 to be exact... http://ilovecarriejude.proboards20.com/
the title dont matter...

My advice is to stop looking directly at the sun (without protection) or pretty soon you won't see too much of anything afterwards.

Lens flare... when it's not dogging my attempts to look at the heavens (I've needed glasses since I was about 14, I miss my clear, non-glasses vision from when I was a kid) it's on forums being mistaken for the end of the world.

Grrr! You'd think they'd go to the trouble of filming a satellite reflection or something.

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No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?