Erich von Daniiken

[Brady Yoon]

If any of you have read von Daniiken's books, such as Chariots of the Gods and Gods from Outer Space, to name a few, his ideas are as un-mainstream as could be. He claims the Pyramids of Giza were built by ancient astronauts (aliens) and the rise of human civilization was brought up by knowledge from extraterrestrial beings.

I would have believed this a few years ago, but this site changed my perspective on things. Why do aliens have to come into everything? Humans were just as smart as we were today. They were capable of thinking critically and using logic. They might have been lacking in technology, but working together, they could accomplish great things. I think von Daniiken is underestimating the power of ancient civilizations. He even says that humans can't make a duplicate of the Great Pyramid in Egypt. Of course we can!!! We make 1,000 foot skyscrapers and huge suspension bridges. Why can't we make a simple pyramid. It's a simple matter of cutting blocks, transporting them, and placing them on top of each other. :roll: Anyway, what do you guys think of his ideas?

[AstroSmurf]

It sounded kinda neat... when I was 12. These days, I use it in role-playing scenarios, where hand-waving is a legitimate way of explaining something. :wink:

[Eta C]

Anyway, what do you guys think of his ideas?

I fell for them when I was a high school freshman. But now, older, sadder, and maybe wiser I have to go with the Pauli quote in my signature.

[PeterFab]

I did also read them as a young teen. I even paid for one of them. I think I have 3 UFO books from back then.
I can't take it seriously these days.

[daver]

I read Chariots in Jr. High School. One von Danniken book was enough. That, and a film (Overlords of the UFO Invaders, I believe. I still have fond memories of the International Harvester UFO (this UFO emblazoned with a symbol not in any terrestrial alphabet)) was enough to kill any incipient UFOphilia I might have entertained.

I suppose a true UFOphile would counter that the Overlords "documentary" and the van Danniken books were disinformation campaigns.

[Brady Yoon]

He even claims that ancient Polynesian cultures couldn't carve and raise blocks of stone, the Moai. What do you think about that?

The Bad Astronomer should do a thorough debunking on his ideas. Or has that already been done?

[daver]

He even claims that ancient Polynesian cultures couldn't carve and raise blocks of stone, the Moai. What do you think about that?

The Bad Astronomer should do a thorough debunking on his ideas. Or has that already been done?

It's been done and redone. Some of the links in the BA's website are to Bad Science (in particular, Bad Archeology) sites; these do a pretty good job of pulverizing van Daniken.

[scottmsg]

He even claims that ancient Polynesian cultures couldn't carve and raise blocks of stone, the Moai. What do you think about that?

The Bad Astronomer should do a thorough debunking on his ideas. Or has that already been done?

Whenever I read about von Daniken, I get the feeling that he thinks humans were uncoordinated moronic weaklings until very recently.

Here is some information on von Daniken from the Skeptic's Dictionary (http://skepdic.com/vondanik.html). There are more links under the reader's comments.

[glen chapman]

Always remember a cartoon years ago. A caveman stands at the top of a cliff, three large boulders before him

He pushes two off - leaving one behind

He then turns to someone out of view and says

In a million years people will wonder how I got this rock up here.

Think it sums it up well

Glen Chapman

[Swift]

He even claims that ancient Polynesian cultures couldn't carve and raise blocks of stone, the Moai. What do you think about that?

The Bad Astronomer should do a thorough debunking on his ideas. Or has that already been done?
There was a program on TV maybe 20 years ago that debunked all of his stuff (might have been PBS Nova). Among many things, they went to Easter Island, asked the locals how they would make a head, and they proceeded to demonstrate with hand tools and a bunch of people.

It has also been pointed out (and I agree) that there might be a little racism involved. He questioned whether Polynesian's or Egyptian's could build such things, but he didn't question Romans building what they did, or medievil peasants building cathedrals..

[kucharek]

As a kid I liked his stuff, pretty entertaining. As a kid...

And, to do him justice, his name is Erich von Däniken.

The last years, he found some investors to open a Mystery Park (http://www.mysterypark.ch/) in Switzerland.

Have fun with the site... ;-)

Harald

[Disinfo Agent]

To be fair, there are unsolved mysteries in history. There are constructions whose purpose is difficult to imagine, and I don't think we're completely sure about how some buildings were built.
But there's no need to assume a paranormal explanation -- especially when the evidence for paranormal explanations always seems to fall apart upon close inspection.

[glen chapman]

An excellent point. I recall a little while ago a program where they attempted to put a bridge across the Rubicon - it was always claimed Ceaser exagerated how fast it was done

Anyway they got a team of British army engineers, under direction of experts, using only the materials available at the time. Everyone agreed driving the pylons would be the hardest part.

First pylon took a day

second - six hours

third - half an hour.

It became obvious...very quickly the Romans had indeed bridged the river as fast as they claim. In fact they were not even hurrying.

Thing people have to remember, humans have a funny knack of learning. Most of the great construction projects didn't stand alone, they are the crowning the glory of centuries of practice.

Glen Chapman

[jrkeller]

When I was a senior in high school, 25 years ago, we watched a debunking program on theories. I think it was a PBS documentary. In some cases, like the Easter island statues, they actually carved their own statue. In other cases, they showed he lied. They even interviewed him and he admitted that in some cases, he exagerated show that his story sounded better.

You might want to try this book (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=309&item=418306058 2&rd=1)

[Glom]

What are you lot talking about? Erick von Daniken was right. Haven't you ever seen the historical documents of the SGC? :^o

[AGN Fuel]

Red Dwarf addressed this type of point beautifully:

(paraphrased)

RIMMER: Of course aliens have visited Earth. Look at the pyramids! How else could the Egyptians have moved such massive stones?

LISTER: They had whips, Rimmer. Massive, massive whips.

:lol:

[DataCable]

Red Dwarf addressed this type of point beautifully:

(paraphrased)

RIMMER: Of course aliens have visited Earth. Look at the pyramids! How else could the Egyptians have moved such massive stones?

LISTER: They had whips, Rimmer. Massive, massive whips.

:lol:
But... hasn't it been established that the pyramids weren't built by slave labor, or is that still under dispute? #-o

Anywho, a while back I rented the Ultra Mega Macro Super Uber Duper Deluxe (or whatever they called it) of edition of Stargate, and one of the "special features" was a.... <ahem> documentary on von Däniken. As soon as his name popped up, I went back to the main menu. :roll:

[freddo]

But... hasn't it been established that the pyramids weren't built by slave labor, or is that still under dispute?
Yes. Massive volunteer labour. Comedy factor is too tempting obviously.

[AGN Fuel]

Red Dwarf addressed this type of point beautifully:

(paraphrased)

RIMMER: Of course aliens have visited Earth. Look at the pyramids! How else could the Egyptians have moved such massive stones?

LISTER: They had whips, Rimmer. Massive, massive whips.

:lol:
But... hasn't it been established that the pyramids weren't built by slave labor, or is that still under dispute? #-o


Yes, but why let the facts get in the way of a good laugh! :lol:

Anyway, it's still a better answer than "aliens did it".

[Swift]

But... hasn't it been established that the pyramids weren't built by slave labor, or is that still under dispute?
Yes. Massive volunteer labour. Comedy factor is too tempting obviously.
Ancient Egyptian peer pressure?

[jokergirl]

Probably an offer they couldn't refuse ;)
Well, they could, if they wanted to be fed to the crocodiles for blasphemia.
You must remember, a king was something akin to a god in these days...

(*ducks* I am NOT an egyptologist! Don't hit me if I got something wrong!)

Back on topic, I read several of his books in highschool (along with the whole X-Files fad...). I found the ideas interesting, but nothing in there could convince me even then. I plainly stopped believing anything when he came to the Aborigines (and african, iirc) rock paintings and stated that deer-headed people (shamans, gods, whatever) pointed to aliens with "Antennas" on their heads.
Antennas, not antennae. I read it in German, where the difference is obvious. He meant that they had headsets somewhat reminiscing of the then popular TV antennas (Yagi antennas, I guess). Mobile phones hadn't even got popular then, and still I knew that any alien capable of crossing space to come to us must have better than those bulky things. :roll:
Especially since they don't work especially well through the atmosphere... (yes, I am aware this is an over-simplification.)

;)

[xbck1]

Why does this guy think that people couldn't move bunch of rocks? And why would aliens, what with all their advanced technology and their ability to build space ships that can travel between stars, want to build these huge things from rock? Why not some sort of über-advanced concrete-like substance, or a super light, super strong, foam material? Or even steel reinforced wooden or stone buildings? That would be a whole lot more effective than multi-ton blocks of stone that need to be quarried miles away and brought on barges and huge sleds just so you can build a pile of rocks. A pile of rocks with style, admittedly, but a pile of rocks nonetheless.



Probably an offer they couldn't refuse ;)
Well, they could, if they wanted to be fed to the crocodiles for blasphemia. Blasphemia? Sounds like some sort of gastric disorder or something! :P I believe it's 'blasphemy'. ;)

[scottmsg]

Apparently, there is an article in a recent issue of Skeptic magazine by Jason Colavito (http://www.thehallofmaat.com/maat/read.php?f=1&i=194258&t=194258). In it he discusses the influence of H.P. Lovecraft on von Daniken et al. I haven't found that magazine yet, and I don't know much about Lovecraft, so I'm really looking forward to finding the article.

Oh, and here is another thread (http://www.hallofmaat.com/maat/read.php?f=1&i=166055&t=166032) from the Hall of Maat (http://www.hallofmaat.com) which discusses some of Covalito's research.

[Hutch]

For me, it was Frank Edwards and one of his UFO books (Flying Saucers--Serious Business, IIRC) that made a big impression on me when I first read it in my early teens....I thought "geez, if he sounds that sure of himself and can cite so many events, surely there is something to it" Soon afterward I was introduced to Science Fiction (Jr. Hi. Library) and skeptical thought (some very good Jr. Hi. Teachers) and never read the book again.

Have never read Von Daniken; once started Velikovsiky, but gave up after the first 60 pages.

[jokergirl]

Probably an offer they couldn't refuse ;)
Well, they could, if they wanted to be fed to the crocodiles for blasphemia. Blasphemia? Sounds like some sort of gastric disorder or something! :P I believe it's 'blasphemy'. ;)

Duh. #-o #-o #-o

I'm going to change my signature now... :oops:

;)

[tracer]

Back on topic, I read several of his books in highschool (along with the whole X-Files fad...).
Bah. Youngsters. Back when I was in High School, we didn't have any fancy-schmancy X-Files. All we had was Project UFO, a creative interpretation of the material in Project Bluebook produced by Jack Webb. (And we-e-e-e-e liked it!)

[tracer]

Whenever I read about von Daniken, I get the feeling that he thinks humans were uncoordinated moronic weaklings until very recently.
He also seems to have no grasp of the concept of a "lost art."

Yes, Erich, we don't build buildings out of giant stone blocks today. Yes, Mr. von D., it would be very difficult for us to build a building out of giant stone blocks today even with modern cranes. Why? Because we don't need to anymore! We have steel and concrete now! Modern cranes are designed to work with steel girders, not stone blocks. The ancient Egyptians had nothing but stone for a building material, so they spent years individually and centuries collectively figuring out all the nuances of building things out of giant stone blocks. It's not at all surprising that they were better at it than we are.



And, incidentally, wouldn't this thread be more well-suited to the "Against the Mainstream" forum, rather than here in the "No doughnut!" forum?

[daver]

Back on topic, I read several of his books in highschool (along with the whole X-Files fad...).
Bah. Youngsters. Back when I was in High School, we didn't have any fancy-schmancy X-Files. All we had was Project UFO, a creative interpretation of the material in Project Bluebook produced by Jack Webb. (And we-e-e-e-e liked it!)

And before that we had UFO (Moon Babes. Gabriel Drake. Drool).

[Wiley]

My introduction to von Daniken was in a Logics class. We had to read one of his books, take a chapter, and point out all the logical fallacies. Needless to say the report was significantly longer than the chapter.

I think I remember a TV series when I was a kid called "Project: Bluebook". It starred a pair of Air Force guys investigating UFO claims. There were usually three cases to an episode...some cases turned out to be misidentifications of natural events, some were blatant hoaxes...and there were a few that ended as "unidentified."

I liked it as a kid.

I wonder if anyone else remembers it?

[SeanF]

I think I remember a TV series when I was a kid called "Project: Bluebook". It starred a pair of Air Force guys investigating UFO claims. There were usually three cases to an episode...some cases turned out to be misidentifications of natural events, some were blatant hoaxes...and there were a few that ended as "unidentified."

I liked it as a kid.

I wonder if anyone else remembers it?

I do. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077065/) :)

[Mellow]

Daver,

UFO..... Gabriele Drake drool indeed. When I was young I wanted a girlfriend with purple hair!

[daver]

Daver,

UFO..... Gabriele Drake drool indeed. When I was young I wanted a girlfriend with purple hair!

I wasn't picky. Lt. Ellis, Mrs. Peel, even April Dancer would have done. Well, come to think of it, I guess I was fairly picky.

[Roy Batty]

I'm sorry, did someone mention Gabrielle Drake (http://ufo.epguides.info/?Role=4385)? :wink: 8)

[Russ]

I'm sorry, did someone mention Gabrielle Drake (http://ufo.epguides.info/?Role=4385)? :wink: 8)
Hey Roy: Somewhere in your link, there is an error. :cry: I would have loved to see Gabbie D. :D

[c-Row]

It works for me. Looks a bit like a real-life anime babe. :wink:

[Sigma_Orionis]

I think I remember a TV series when I was a kid called "Project: Bluebook". It starred a pair of Air Force guys investigating UFO claims. There were usually three cases to an episode...some cases turned out to be misidentifications of natural events, some were blatant hoaxes...and there were a few that ended as "unidentified."

I liked it as a kid.

I wonder if anyone else remembers it?

Yeah, I saw a couple of episodes as a kid

[tracer]

That was the Project UFO series I mentioned earlier.

It was based on real cases from the Air Force's Project Bluebook, but the series was named Project UFO.

I can still hum the theme music.

"Ezekiel saw the wheel. This is the wheel he said he saw. These are some of the things people say they are seeing now...."