Which Telescope

[yubetcha]

I am looking at telescopes. I read somewhere that any telescope under $500 isn't worth it, because with light pollution, the only thing you can see well is the moon. Is there any truth to that? If true, could that be a possible reason for so many inexpensive telescopes for auction at eBay? Could you guys recommend one? What should a novice look for in magnification, lens size, etc? Does the length of the telescope make any difference? I noticed that the more expensive ones are short with a large diameter. I assume that the larger diameter gathers more light, allowing one to see farther and more clearly. True?
Thanks a lot.
BTW, while searching, I came across this site. Kind of interesting. It is a web site connected to an actual telescope. They give you three days free. I haven't gotten past the three days yet, so I don't know how much they charge after that. But I doubt that I will go past the three days, since I would rather have my own....
http://www.slooh.com/homejs.jsp

[jt-3d]

I'm no expert but something similar has come up (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=14124) before. Might give you an idea.

[Kaptain K]

I read somewhere that any telescope under $500 isn't worth it, because with light pollution, the only thing you can see well is the moon.
1) Light pollution has nothing to do with it. its effect is the same, no matter what you pay for a scope.
2) Most (not all) inexpensive scopes are inexpensive because they are cheaply made, with poor optics and shoddy construction.
3) Companies such as Celestron, Meade and Orion make quality scopes in this price range.
4) There is more to see than just the Moon, even with the smallest scope. There are, literally, thousands of objects visible even with binoculars (A good place to start!). There's enough to keep you busy for a lifetime, although, if you get into the hobby, "aperture fever" will eventually bite you.
What should a novice look for in magnification, lens size, etc?
1) Ignore magnification! That is one of the main signs of a cheap scope. If it says:
600x magnification
on the box or in the advertising, it's pretty much a dead giveaway! Anything more than 50x per inch is useless, even with "perfect" optics.
2) Aperture rules. The bigger the lens (or mirror), the brighter the image. Note that refractors (lenses) are more expensive than reflectors (mirrors), since there are more surfaces that have to be ground and polished and the glass has to be of higher optical quality (since the light goes through them rather than being reflected off of them).
Does the length of the telescope make any difference? I noticed that the more expensive ones are short with a large diameter. I assume that the larger diameter gathers more light, allowing one to see farther and more clearly. True?
The length of the telescope is a function of the design. Refractors and Newtonian reflectors usually have fairly long tubes, since the tube length is approximately equal to the focal length of the scope. The "short and fat" scopes areof a type known as "catadioptric" (fancy way of saying folded optical path). The light bounces off the primary mirror to the secondary mirror and then back through a hole in the primary mirror to the eyepiece. Folding the optics makes for a compact telescope

[JustAGuy]

You may want to look at the Meade outlet on ebay. They're selling reconditioned small scopes for a fraction of their price new, but with full warranty and free shipping.

You can get a 6" Dob for ~$250, or a computerized Goto 130mm reflecter for about 150, or the ever-popular ETX-70 for <150. These are all fractions of their retail value.

Buy the scope you'll use the most. How much you'll use the scope is basically inversely proportional to the apperature (bigger scopes are harder to move and set up).

[Lt. Rico]

I'm not an expert, but in general I should think you can find something useful for under $500. The most important things to keep in mind are how do you plan to use the telescope, and what you want to look at? Do you intend to do all your observations from a single location, or do you want to take it with you on trips to the country, mountains, etc? How much time are you willing to invest in learning the complexities of a more sophisticated device, v. how much more enjoyment would you get out of a scope that was say, less powerful but easier to set up and use on a daily basis?

The other advice given previously is good, especially the bit about avoiding cheap (<$200) scopes that are advertised in terms of "100x magnification." This is really not a useful term to describe the power of the instrument and generally indicates that it was not designed to be sold to people who are serious about astronomy.

Aperture
Aperture is a much more important measurement of the "power" of the telescope. The larger the aperture the more light our telescope will collect and the more you will see. Having said that, there are practical limits, depending on how portable you need the scope to be. Also, light pollution may be a factor if you live in a populated area- in which case, a large-aperture scope could suffer more from the effects of unwanted city light than a smaller scope. Basically, aperture is the single most important indicator of a telescope's real power, but it's not the only thing you should consider.

Relflectors/Refractors
In a VERY condensed version, refractors (long and skinny) tend to be more expensive for a given aperture, they also give a better quality image, are affected somewhat less by light pollution, and are generally easier to take care of. Because they are much longer for a given aperture than a reflector scope, they can be less portable as well. At larger apertures, they can get very expensive compared to reflectors.

Reflectors (short and fat) tend to be less expensive for a given aperture, at the expense of some image quality, however they are still capable of producing very good images. Also they may be more sensitive to light pollution in populated areas. They are generally much more portable.

Personally, I think that reflectors give a better overall dollar value. But again, it depends on what exactly you want to look at, and where you're looking from. In general, I think reflectors are better for looking at things that are quite far away, such as other stars, nebula, etc while a good refractor will work well for closer objects such as the moon and local planets.

Mounts/accessories
Keep in mind that even after you get the scope you are not done buying things. The mount is largely overlooked by beginners but is very important as well. Again, this depends on what you are looking at and how often you will be transporting the scope. You will also likely want to buy additional eyepieces, and possibly some filters, etc. It's a good idea to keep some of your budget money in reserve for accessories such as these.

Good luck, and have fun!

[JustAGuy]

You will also likely want to buy additional eyepieces, and possibly some filters, etc. It's a good idea to keep some of your budget money in reserve for accessories such as these.
This is a really good point. I'm looking at a scope myself, and a good set of eyepieces can easily cost more than the scope! But ya need em...

[Charlie in Dayton]

For the first set of optics, you may want to consider binoculars. They're more utilitarian, less intimidating, and lets you see more while learning the sky.

Check out www.apogeeinc.com for some nice astro-binoculars at decent intro prices.

Check out http://www.helix-mfg.com/bino-acc.htm for a neat little monopod to mount anything with a 1/4-20 screw socket (binocular L-mount, 35mm camera).

You don't have to start out as the local subsidiary of Hubble...

[JustAGuy]

For the first set of optics, you may want to consider binoculars. They're more utilitarian, less intimidating, and lets you see more while learning the sky.
This is also a really good point. You will continute to use a good set of binoculars long after you decide it's time to purchase a nice scope. I have a nice set of 10x50s myself, and have spent long periods of time lying on my back doing wide-field staring at the milky-way, somthing a larger scope isn't as handy for.

[yubetcha]

Thanks, everyone. I appreciate the info. It helps a lot. I am glad that I asked you. I originally thought that the higher the magnification, the better. I guess that isn't true. I was leaning toward one on eBay that had a mag of over 600, vs. one that is 240. So I guess I should scratch that. And many of the auctions don't even list the aperture. Also, does Bushnell make a good scope? I see them auctioned on eBay every once in awhile. Also Meade and Celestron.
The telescope that I want doesn't need to be transported far. My wants/needs:
1) I will probably only put it on my second floor deck outside of my bedroom, and only a nuclear explosion would get it off of the deck. There isn't a place near me in the countryside to take it that isn't private property (unless I set it up in the middle of the highway).
2) I was hoping to find one that would allow me to see the planets clearly and close, especially Saturn's rings and Phobos, etc. But I also wanted to be able to see distant galaxies, etc fairly clearly. Are those two things mutually exclusive? It sounds above in your posts as if I can have one but not the other.
3) I also live in a suburb of Dallas. My city has approximately 70,000 and still growing. Other burbs have approximately as many, and some have more. Dallas itself has millions of people, and I am about 40 miles or so from its edge, with two other suburbs in between. So would you say that I should expect light pollution? There is a lot of light at night. If I should, then according to the above posts, I guess that I should get a scope that has a smaller diameter.
4) I also would like one that is good quality but not terribly expensive, so it would last for awhile.
5) Also Computerized.

Would you guys venture a suggestion as to what scope I should get based on the above criteria? By that, I mean the manufacturer at least, and model number would help if you could. But if you can't, that's okay. For instance, what was your first scope, and was it useful for the above? What do you have now? I am asking because as you can probably tell, I am still slightly confused as to which scope would be better for my situation, although I know more now than I knew before posting in this forum, thanks to you (the mag number, for instance). Are Meade, Celestron and Bushnell about the same quality? Is there one that I should definitely stay away from? Would you recommend one over the other? Since I posted initially, I have been leaning toward a Bushnell on eBay, but it has a "maximum useful magnification of X675". And the aperture size is not listed, but it is short and fat, so I guess that it is a reflector. But I guess that the "X675" number is useless.

Anyway, would this be a good one:

- Optical Tube Length: 13.5 inches
- Optical Tube: 4 inch Maksutov-Cassegrain
- Higest Useful Magnification: 240x
- Lowest Useful Magnification: 15x
- Focal Length: 1,325mm
- Finderscope: Starpointer
- Mount: Fork arm
- Computer Hand Control: Yes
- Database: 4,000 Object
- Linear FOV (at 1,000 yards): 52.5 ft.
- Telescope Weight: 11 lbs.


Items Included

- Celestron NexStar 4GT Maksutov-Cassegrain Telescope
- Sturdy Celestron Tripod for the NexStar 4GT
- Fully Multi-Coated 2X Barlow Lens
- 25mm Standard Lens
- 6mm Plossl Lens
- 4mm Plossl Lens


Or this one:

Key Features
Optical Design Newtonians

Optical Diameter 114 mm

Finderscope Red-Dot

Focal Length 900 mm

Max Useful Magnification x 675

Mount Type Altazimuth
Miscellaneous
MPN 787845

Product ID 20717930


Or this one:

Included Accessories 3x Barlow Lens, Diagonal Mirror,
Accessory Tray, StarFinder Software
Magnification with Included Eyepiece 28x, 56x, 175x
Mounting Type Altazimuth
Remote Control Included
Style Refractor
Tripod Adjustable Aluminum
Viewfinder 5 x 24mm, with 6-point bracket
Additional Features Meade Starfinder PC Compatable
Astro Software with Database of over
10,000 Celestial Objects
Computerized Star Locator Yes, Included
Diameter 60mm
Eyepiece Included 3 (0.965") Eyepieces: 4mm, 12.5mm,
25mm (wide angle)
Focal Length 700mm

FEATURES
* 60mm diameter achromatic, multicoated objective lens
* 700mm focal length; f/11.7 focal ratio
* Three 0.965" optical eyepieces: SR4mm (175x), H12.5mm (56x), H25mm (28x)
* 3x Barlow lens and diagonal mirror
* 5 x 24mm viewfinder with 6-point bracket
* Altazimuth mount
* Adjustable aluminum tripod with accessory tray
* StarFinder software included

See, a lot of these terms are all grief to me ...er... greek to me. I can figure out some of them, but not many. Some may be important, and I wouldn't know it. They may as well be written in some alien language.
I appreciate your help, guys. This info is all so confusing, and I am afraid that I would get a scope that I would not want or like.

[Psi-less]

And take a look at this http://www.badastronomy.com/bitesize/scopefaq.html from the website attached to this forum (or is that vice-versa?). :lol: It was very helpful to me when scope shopping, particularly the link to the Belmont Society. We wound up going for a 10 inch Orion Dob because we wanted a serious light bucket and have loved it! Now all I need is a moon filter--having taken a quick peek at the moon (all your eyes can stand with that much light) and seen the up-close-and-personal quality, I want to look more. And a solar filter would be wonderful as well. Happy hunting!

Psi-less

[JohnW]

Yubetcha,

Avoid Ebay, especially if you don't know a lot about telescopes. There is a lot of junk out there, and much of it forms an accretion ring around Ebay. You should buy from a specialist telescope/optics store. If there isn't one locally, I've had good service from Anacortes Telescope and Astronomics. Both have great websites, including some very useful "how to choose a first telescope" advice. Telescope store staff, like people who work in independent bookshops, music shops, bike shops, etc. are usually enthusiasts themselves and will be happy to talk to you. It will cost a bit more, but you're much more likely to get something you're happy with.

But before you pull out your credit card, let's back up a bit. How many telescopes have you looked through? If the answer is "none", track down your local astronomy club. They will almost certainly hold regular public star parties, where you can try out a lot of different scopes, and talk to their owners. There is no perfect first scope for everyone, and you'll want to try out a few to see whether you like refractors, reflectors or catadioptrics, whether you want an equatorial or alt-azimuth mount, whether you'd like goto...

If the previous sentence sounds like gibberish, you may be heading for trouble if you buy a telescope right now.

[yubetcha]

John, some of it is gibberish, and some isn't. But the club is a good idea. Thanks. I appreciate it. I suppose there is one near me. Don't know for sure. Will have to look. They are probably all over the place.

[orangeSCT]

I would definately second JohnW's advice to go to a star party from a local astronomy club. You will get more information from being able to look through a variety of scopes than you could ever get reading about them online. You will also get a realistic idea of what you can see through a <$500 instrument. Distant galaxies are called faint fuzzies for a reason. And, who knows, you might get lucky. Sometimes people at star parties are looking to upgrade their equiptment and are willing to sell their old scope to an enthusiastic newbie for a great deal. That is how I got started, and in the same price range as you are looking. Good luck.

[RealBoatsRock]

Anyway, would this be a good one:

- Optical Tube Length: 13.5 inches
- Optical Tube: 4 inch Maksutov-Cassegrain
- Higest Useful Magnification: 240x
- Lowest Useful Magnification: 15x
- Focal Length: 1,325mm
- Finderscope: Starpointer
- Mount: Fork arm
- Computer Hand Control: Yes
- Database: 4,000 Object
- Linear FOV (at 1,000 yards): 52.5 ft.
- Telescope Weight: 11 lbs.


Items Included

- Celestron NexStar 4GT Maksutov-Cassegrain Telescope
- Sturdy Celestron Tripod for the NexStar 4GT
- Fully Multi-Coated 2X Barlow Lens
- 25mm Standard Lens
- 6mm Plossl Lens
- 4mm Plossl Lens

yubetcha, that's a telescope that I've been trying to sell for a short while now. It's a good telescope; I've had it for about a year. There's nothing wrong with it, I just want to upgrade a bit. I finally have the money for a nice 8 inch aperture ... so I'm excited about that. Though the auction just ended, you could email me about it. Speaking of that, does anybody know of a better way to sell a telescope than through ebay?

[Christos]

Yubetcha
a good condensed source of information for astronomy-related optics:
www.cloudynights.com , if you intend to get serious with your new hobby.
You should consider bying a good beginners book, like "Nightwath".
What I learned is that a relatively cheap pair of big binoculars (15x70), in the 150$ price range and a good photo tripod is the best first choice for starting amateur astro-observations.
What I also learned -the hard way- is that a good telescope (apart from optics/price etc.) is the one that you use most.
Have fun.

[orangeSCT]

RealBoatsRock, a great place to try to sell astronomy equiptment is astromart (http://www.astromart.com/). Just go to the classified section and sign up. I've had good success buying a few things there (have yet to part with any of my astro stuff).
Also a good place to look for a decent scope BTW yubetcha.

[yubetcha]

Thanks a lot, guys. There is a lot of good info here, and some great links. I appreciate your help.
RedBoat, I appreciate the offer, but I think that I need to get further into this scope thing and learn more about it, starting at the star party. After I become more familiar and get some hands on experience (now I have zero), I will probably be better able to decide. Thanks anyway, though. I hope that you sell it. And if you don't, we'll probably talk again. :)

[aurora]

John, some of it is gibberish, and some isn't. But the club is a good idea. Thanks. I appreciate it. I suppose there is one near me. Don't know for sure. Will have to look. They are probably all over the place.

You can find them online, try the Sky & Telescope website, http://skyandtelescope.com/resources/organizations/ or the Astronomical League web site. http://www.astroleague.org/al/general/society.html

The great thing about visiting a local club is that you will get to look at and maybe try a number of different telescopes and ask their owners what they like or don't like.

The club might even have telescopes you can check out!

[aurora]

Speaking of that, does anybody know of a better way to sell a telescope than through ebay?

Try astromart
http://www.astromart.com/

or astronomy mall
http://www.astronomy-mall.com/

both have classified sections for telescopes.