Fahrenheit 9/11

[soupdragon2]

Seems to have created a bit of a furore in the USA?

It comes to England this Friday 9th July?

I wonder how peole here will react?

[R.A.F.]

I'm surprised at you, Soup! Just yesterday, we were talking about what topics the BA frowns upon and politics is "one" of them.

ANY discussion of "Moore's movie" will most certainly end up discussing politics.

[Lycus]

Yeah, that movie provides a lot of potential for a flame war. Best take it to FWIS (http://loresinger.com/FWIS/index.php).

[MentalAvenger]

Moore’s claim says it all. He hopes that it is the first movie in history that help unseat an incumbent President. IMHO, the movie should be banned until after the elections. If we go down the road of creating emotional, full length movies to influence elections, we are in deep deep trouble.

[soupdragon2]

I'm surprised at you, Soup! Just yesterday, we were talking about what topics the BA frowns upon and politics is "one" of them.

ANY discussion of "Moore's movie" will most certainly end up discussing politics.

Oooops. I thought everything was permitted in Babbling!?

[Lycus]

Oooops. I thought everything was permitted in Babbling!?
Essentially, but the BA wants us to try and stay away from highly flammable topics like religion and politics. Just post it in FWIS (http://loresinger.com/FWIS/index.php), there are a lot of BABBers over there.

[R.A.F.]

I thought everything was permitted in Babbling!?

Well, it is as long as it doesn't envolve politics, religion, or Harry Potter. :)

(Sorry, that last was a bit of a joke.) :)

...And it's started already...I strongly disagree with what MentalAvenger wrote (sorry) yet, IF I post my opinion, I know it will start an arguement...

I agree with Lycus...let's take this over to FWIS.

[HAVOC451]

If we look at this film from a film making perspective, it is a powerfull film.

[MentalAvenger]

I disagree with R.A.F.’s disagreement. I am not talking about politics here, at least not siding with one side or another. What I am referring to is the concept of using a full length movie format to develop an emotional bias for political ends. We all know that movies are specifically designed to temporarily create an artificial world that caters to our emotions. How many of you cried during ET-The Extraterrestrial? I did. How could I feel empathy for a fictional character? Because the movie was designed to elicit that response. A 30 second commercial cannot develop that kind of emotional involement, but a full length movie can, and does.

If there is no deceptive political agenda associated with F-911, then what would be the objection to waiting another 5 months to see it? If there is a calculated and dishonest agenda there, then it should be held back to prevent irreparable damage to the system.

FYI, I would have exactly the same objections regardless of who produced the movie and who the target was. When something is not right, it simply is not right regardless of the focus.

BTW, I also strongly object to all movies (or so-called documentaries) which capitalize on, and feed off of, the pain and suffering of others. It seems that the PTB can feed us a continuous diet of death, destruction, and tragedy, while largely ignoring the incredible good in this world. Unfortunately, we as a people not only allow it, but encourage it. It never ceases to amaze me that garbage publications such as the National Enquirer can even exist, let alone prosper.

Boy, that depresses me.

[gethen]

Countdown to locking begins now.........

[ToSeek]

If there is no deceptive political agenda associated with F-911, then what would be the objection to waiting another 5 months to see it? If there is a calculated and dishonest agenda there, then it should be held back to prevent irreparable damage to the system.


I don't think there's anything deceptive about Moore's agenda: he made the movie to encourage people not to vote for Bush. Obviously, releasing it in December would defeat that purpose.

[PhantomWolf]

If we look at this film from a film making perspective, it is a powerfull film.

From a Film-making perspective, Michael Moore is very good as an editr and director. From a truth point of view......

This is a very good article that deals with the truth of the film:

The Fifty Nine Deceits of Mike Moore's Fahrenheit 911 (http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm)

[SciFi Chick]

Well, it is as long as it doesn't envolve politics, religion, or Harry Potter. :)

(Sorry, that last was a bit of a joke.) :)



You're not going to let my temper tantrum go, are you? :lol:

[MentalAvenger]

Obviously, releasing it in December would defeat that purpose.

So you agree with my point.

If we go down that road, it will lead to a bottomless pit. I shudder to think of what “entertainment” will become if this sets a precedent. :-?

[SciFi Chick]

Obviously, releasing it in December would defeat that purpose.

So you agree with my point.

If we go down that road, it will lead to a bottomless pit. I shudder to think of what “entertainment” will become if this sets a precedent. :-?

Censorship is not the answer.

[Ut]

If people can be swayed by a movie, then what does it matter? They can be swayed by the evening news, by their families, or by crazy people ranting and raving in the streets. Why not just shut the entire country down for a year, and not let anyone have access to anything. The outside world, including the opinions of those who live in it, will have an impact on the way someone does something.

The Daily Show rips into Bush & Co on a regular basis. They don't do it because they're Democrats, but because there's entertainment value in it. But they also make the current government look like fools. That sways voter opinion, too. Let's take that off the air until the end of the year...

[Argos]

Moore reminds me Oliver Stone, the conspiracy theorist. I don´t know if I like it (but surely i´ll be going to the theater to see it).

[Gullible Jones]

It's a dirty trick, and the movie strikes me as slightly on the woo-woo side, but I think America needed it. We just can't afford to have a complete moron for a president.

[R.A.F.]

Censorship is not the answer.

I agree with SciFi Chick :) and disagree with MentalAvenger's disagreement with my disagreement. :lol:

[Maksutov]

Obviously, releasing it in December would defeat that purpose.

So you agree with my point.

If we go down that road, it will lead to a bottomless pit. I shudder to think of what “entertainment” will become if this sets a precedent. :-?

Censorship is not the answer.

Complete agreement.

Let Moore show the film when he wants to.

This is where having film critics that share your views and perspectives really comes in handy. It solves (sometimes imperfectly, as with everything else) the dilemma of paying to see a film which turns out to be a pile of rot.

Using your chosen critics' reviews to decide whether or not to commit your time (and money, which is what Moore, Gibson, et al are really after) to a particular film allows you to decide a priori whether or not to see it.

The beauty of this (a derivative of a free press) is you don't have to give the film people what they're after (your money), time after time, turkey after turkey, in order for you to make up your mind about whether or not you like a film. Later, once it's on video or TV, you can watch to see if your use of your critics was on target, and if incorrect, make certain adjustments and choices about who your future film critics should be.

So what if there's a delay there, it's only a movie, which is something I wish the public/audiences would keep remembering. Then there are those who immediately have to see what's the latest and greatest. Like At Long Last Love

[Master258]

This is should not be hear! This movie is clearly locked with politics

[SciFi Chick]

This is should not be hear! This movie is clearly locked with politics

Wow. You're feeling pretty passionate about this, aren't ya? 8)

[Master258]

Yeah. I want a break from politics. It's on tv, it's on radio, it's in movies, it's everywhere.

[mike alexander]

No censorship! SFC, Mak, others, right on! Shill for Bush, push for Kerry, cheer for Nader! Heck, even tip your hat to Lyndon LaRouche! Defend the Big Bang! Question Relativity! Stump for the Electric Universe!

Read history. Realize how lucky we are to be able to rant and moan without worrying about the knock on the door in the night. Understand that the questioners, the muckrakers, the priers into the dark corners, no matter where they are, are a big reason the knock does not come.

Support Your Local Muckraker.

[SciFi Chick]

Support Your Local Muckraker.

=D> Exactly! :D

[soupdragon2]

Read history. Realize how lucky we are to be able to rant and moan without worrying about the knock on the door in the night. Understand that the questioners, the muckrakers, the priers into the dark corners, no matter where they are, are a big reason the knock does not come.
Yeah, I'm big on the NO censorship issue. But what about the American Patriots act which I believe the film touches on. Could there be long term repercussions for science, also, if dictatorial powers fall into the wrong hands? Am I being melodramatic?

Has a dangerous precedent been set? I'm not sure about Bush's Christian views in relation to science. Ooops, I've introduced religion as well now!

We just can't afford to have a complete moron for a president.
:lol:
Don't hold back mate ... spit it out.

[Gullible Jones]

Wow, Soup... for once I'm actually agreeing with you. :lol:

But I can't spit out my opinion of that fool on this board. I'll have to go to FWIS for that.

[mike alexander]

The long-term repercussions for science under a dictatorship driven by an unquestionable ideology are bleak. Check out either Third Reich physics or Soviet biology for some terrible answers, just in the 20th century.

[MentalAvenger]

If people can be swayed by a movie, then what does it matter?
The point is, that a full length movie can develop a fictitious world that creates a strong emotional response. Performed properly, a movie has the potential to make an uniformed person believe almost anything.
Censorship is not the answer.
Let Moore show the film when he wants to.
Therein lies the problem, doesn’t it? If it can be shown that the points made in the film are dishonest, and that the conclusions are wrong, the damage will be irreparable.

[Gullible Jones]

I get what you mean, MentalAvenger... the film is definitely propaganda, and is almost as dirty a trick as the one that got Bush elected. It might help get that idiot out of office, but it is true that the ends do not always justify the means... I must admit that you can't justifiably stoop to the same lows as your enemy.

[Eif87]

C'mon now fella's! We're adults and I think we can behave/act in a mature manner. Politics are apart of everyday life, so I say if we behave like gentlemen, we have every right to discuss this movie.

With that being said, for someone who is concerned about President Bush making a profit off of the war, I find it funny that he IS making a movie that will no doubt bring him a hefty amount of cash....and his movie is of course based off of the war

Also, I don't think this movie will influence the elections because the only ones who are going to see it (mainly Democrats) will enter the movie with Moore's attitude, and the flick will only back up what they think. I haven't seen the movie yet, but after talking with friends, they say that it is full of false facts. etc. and the movie had no effect on their political status. They also said Moore gave Bush a pretty heavy bashing, and in a time when our country needs to pull together as one, despite political views, I think it was crummy of Moore to even consider making this film.
[-X

Just my 2 cents worth, didn't mean to offend anyone but as I said again, politics are apart of everyday life and I tihnk we can control our tempers on this board.

Thanks!

Eif [/i]

[The Bad Astronomer]

I cannot make this any clearer: keep politics out of this forum.

Got it?

And Gullible Jones the ad hominems are not welcome either. Consider yourself strongly warned.

Locked.