The Motor in Atlas Shrugged

[Andromeda321]

Hello all,
I finally got around to reading my father's graduation present for me, which is a copy of Atlas Shrugged. In the book the main charecter rediscovers what is referred to as a "static motor" which runs on static electricity gathered from the Earth's atmosphere. In the book it's a pretty huge deal because, as one charecter mentions, "every physicist on the planet says this motor is impossible to build" or something along those lines.
Now I got to wondering because a motor that runs on static electricity from the atmosphere would be pretty darn cool. Feasability-wise, however, could you actually get something to work? Or maybe they have by now and I just don't know it? (The book was written a few decades ago and it is fiction after all.) Only thing I want to ask is people be nice and not give away what goes on in Atlas Shrugged more then nessecary to stay on topic. One it's a good book, even if it is 1100+ pages long, and two I am not finished yet and I don't want anyone wrecking the ending. Thanks ppl!

[Glom]

Yeah right like charge could ever accumulate like that.

[George]

What method do they use to produce current?

a) Helium ballons lifting wiring high into the air
b) Windmill rubbing amber and glass (or other substances)
c) Kite held by some guy with a white wig
d) Short space elevator with conductivity


Wouldn't wind energy be better or has someone figured out a way to store lightning bolts?

You might enjoy Tesla and his counter idea - putting static charge into the atmosphere. I think that project did him in. :-?

[Parrothead]

Feasability wise, "every physicist on the planet" were right...other than that enjoy the book, I've read it a number of times. I found The Fountainhead and We the Living to be good reads too. The movie of The Fountainhead starring Gary Cooper, Patricia Neal and Raymond Massey was fairly well done.

[Andromeda321]

Yep, I've read The Fountainhead and Anthem already, they were former graduation presents from 10th and 8th grades respectively. Good stuff. :)
As for the way the motor works, there isn't too much of a description short of a lot of references to a long copper coil and glass tubes. Doesn't help much, does it?

[Kesh]

Ayn Rand never let a silly little thing like "reality" bother her. ;)

[ToSeek]

I don't want anyone wrecking the ending.

The good guys win. :P

Actually, though I like the book, I've long wanted to write a sequel in which John Galt's motor turns out to have devastating environmental side effects (like either eliminating thunderstorms or making them extremely common) in order to rebut some of Rand's more extreme views.

[Astronot]

IIRC several characters make radical inventions that the mainstream says can’t be done or aren’t safe, etc. It is just a plot device Rand uses to establish her characters, and shouldn’t be taken to literally. It’s a great read and worth slogging through some of the slow parts. Its one of those books everyone should read around birthdays divisible by 20 as a mark to see how one has changed over the years. I’m overdue for my second round, thanks for bringing the subject up.

[TrAI]

Hmmm... There is something called an electrostatic motor, it is similar in function to the electromagnetic motor, but uses, as the name implies, electric fields instead of magnetic fields. They need high voltages, but draws little current, as they rely on the difference in potential between the stator and the rotor sheets; one would generally make them with thin metal sheets on the surface of a no conducting material, there is no coils in the motor itself. The only coils I can think of would be if it used a transformer to step up the voltage. You might use springs to brush against the rotor commutator, they might look like coils...

I guess it could be powered by drawing electricity from the electric field between the earth and sky, you might use capacitive voltage division, something like a sheet of metal held up on some sort of high tower, that would act as a third plate in a capacitor, partway between the two others, connect the motor to the sheet and ground... but it wouldn't be very safe, such a motor would be destroyed by lightning quite easily, as they are not built for high currents, and it is rather dangerous to work with a high voltage source like that... Anyway, the problem that really limits the use of these motors is that they work rather poorly in air, as it has a tendency to ionize, and one gets corona discharges and arching and such nasty things... They may see a future in space applications though, as the low current requirements means they need thinner conductors, they can be made lighter, and of course, being in a near perfect vacuum would solve the problem of how to prevent arching with high voltages...

Hmmm... These nano motors one hear about some times are often based on electrostatics, its rather difficult to make small coil and magnet assemblies, but a couple of metalized surfaces are much easier.. and on such small scales you do not need very high voltages...

So I guess it all depends on the application, some things are easier to do with electromagnetic motors.

[Kesh]

You might want to explain the term 'electric field'.

[Lurker]

I don't want anyone wrecking the ending.

The good guys win. :P
Yeah... but the butler did it...
oops... 8-[

:wink:

[ToSeek]

I don't want anyone wrecking the ending.

The good guys win. :P
Yeah... but the butler did it...
oops... 8-[

:wink:

At least you didn't reveal that the butler is really John Galt. Um, oops. #-o :oops:

[TrAI]

You might want to explain the term 'electric field'.
Well, Most people have played with magnets, and so have a feeling about how two magnetic fields interact, that like poles repel each other, while opposite poles will attract each other. Electric fields are similar in that way, two electric poles of the same polarity will push away the other, while the two dissimilar poles will pull towards each other.

As to what an electric field is, that is a bit harder to explain. I guess an electric field can be thought of as the force that is exerted on other object by something that is charged. A charge in this context would be that the object has an imbalance between the number of protons and electrons in its atoms, either due to it being connected to a voltage source, or being charged by coming in to contact with another material. Two materials have a tendency to form bonds, and when the objects are separated these bonds can rip electrons away from atoms in one of the materials. That is what happens when someone rubs a balloon, static electricity is a charge.

But I am not realy good at explaining such things, not the physics at least, so I guess one could find a better explanation at ones favorite encyclopedia site, I just hope I didn't mix the stuff up too much. :wink:

[SciFi Chick]

Who is John Galt?





I just couldn't resist. LOL

[soupdragon2]

The electrical nature of the universe has been overlooked big time, and most of the people on here just spout standard textbook stuff. Atlas Shrugged may turn out to be prophetic in many ways.

Here is a good place to start with some of the basics.

Electric currents from space
http://www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/Education/wcurrent.html

The Io dynamo
http://www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/Education/wio.html

The Sun and the Solar wind
http://www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/Education/Isun.html

The Space tether experiment
http://www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/Education/wtether.html

Most standard texts tend to infer that the universe is electrically strerile. This is wrong.

[Eta C]

None of these are static electricic effects soups. All four effects you cite involve large currents and potential differences. And I wouldn't call them overlooked either. All four effects are based in mainstream astronomy and physics. Atlas Shrugged, or any novel, is a lousy place to look for new ideas in physics. As to Rand's philosophy, IMO it's as sterile as her physics. One man's take.

[soupdragon2]

None of these are static electricic effects soups. All four effects you cite involve large currents and potential differences. And I wouldn't call them overlooked either. All four effects are based in mainstream astronomy and physics. Atlas Shrugged, or any novel, is a lousy place to look for new ideas in physics. As to Rand's philosophy, IMO it's as sterile as her physics. One man's take.
Where have you been? And what's electricic? Eccentric electricity? You never fail to challenge me Mr Eta C!

How would you differentiate between static electricity and other types? Careful now. Don't try and blind me with particle physics ... I can smell fertilizer a mile away.

[Kesh]

You might want to explain the term 'electric field'.
Well, Most people have played with magnets, and so have a feeling about how two magnetic fields interact, that like poles repel each other, while opposite poles will attract each other. Electric fields are similar in that way, two electric poles of the same polarity will push away the other, while the two dissimilar poles will pull towards each other.

Er, no. What you're describing is an electro-magnetic field. They're the same thing. There's no such thing as an 'electric pole', it's just a magnetic pole.

And soup, it might help you if you stop insulting people for disagreeing.

[TrAI]

Er, no. What you're describing is an electro-magnetic field. They're the same thing. There's no such thing as an 'electric pole', it's just a magnetic pole....

Hmmm, perhaps something got lost in my translation. What I was trying to say was that two objects with negative charge tend to be pushed apart, while a negative and a positive charge will attract each other.

Having a positive or negative electrical potential measured in relation to something else is called polarity, and the two measuring points would be poles. I guess this was derived from the convention of naming the two sides of a magnetic field poles... Magnetics and electrics are just two sides of the same thing--electromagnetics--after all...

Perhaps an example of the use pole in relation to electrics could help; on a battery the positive terminal is called the + pole, while the negative is the - pole.

[morpheus]

IIRC, the perpetual motion motor in Atlas Shrugged actually turned out to be running on the hot air generated from the 60 page John Galt speech at the end of the book. :lol:

I think the only reason I finished that book was because I was stuck on an eight hour plane flight. Although Rand has some great ideas, her style of writing (two dimensional characters brimming with repressed sexuality) on top of the rather turgid prose and that speech at the end certainly killed my enthusiasm.

[lyford]

Although Rand has some great ideas, her style of writing (two dimensional characters brimming with repressed sexuality) on top of the rather turgid prose and that speech at the end certainly killed my enthusiasm.
Yes, but in balance her work did "inspire" 2112 by Rush, which is a guilty pleasure of mine.:wink: Though I hear "prog rock" is coming back in fashion a bit with the kids these days. 8)

[garynolan]

His "motor" exists.

It's built/designed by Joseph Newman.

It's described at: http://www.josephnewman.com

Gary

:)

[Gullible Jones]

Actually, Newman's motor does not work. And yes, it does violate conservation of energy - and no, a nuclear reaction doesn't, because itconverts mass into energy!

[garynolan]

Actually, I believe Joseph Newman's machine does work.

And it does not violate the law of conservation.

I would suggest reading his book (available free through libraries), read the results of those scientists and engineers who have actually TESTED and VERIFIED his technology, and then make up your own mind.

:)
Gary