ELEMENT: RADON

[jenkswrester]

I would like any info or thoughts about radon and its radioactivity thanks!!

[mid]

It can cause random interactions in computer memory, switching bits from 0 to 1. For instance, turning your title into all caps.

[Eta C]

For some reason this thread was also initiated in the Bad Media forum. More appropriate here although several responses have been posted there. In summary, Rn isn't chemically dangerous. It's an inert gas. It is radioactive and an alpha emitter. The danger comes from inhaling it. Rn is formed from the radioactive decay of U and Th, so in some areas there's the potential for it to seep into buildings and concentrate there. A potetential problem, but not the boogy man some would make it into.

[tuffel999]

http://home.howstuffworks.com/radon1.htm
http://pearl1.lanl.gov/periodic/elements/86.html

It decays by alpha emission.
http://ie.lbl.gov/education/glossary/AnimatedDecays/AlphaDecay.html
http://education.jlab.org/glossary/alphadecay.html

[Musashi]

Is this some kind of homework assignment? First the DHMO and now Radon...

[Glom]

Radon is responsible for 60% of our radiation exposure and it is a natural one at that. What are you going to do? Run around like a headless chicken? Don't mind if I do. WAAAAAABLALABLAA!!!!!

[electromagneticpulse]

Radon is responsible for 60% of our radiation exposure and it is a natural one at that. What are you going to do? Run around like a headless chicken? Don't mind if I do. WAAAAAABLALABLAA!!!!!

looks like Glom has got the headless chicken down to an art :lol:

Well you can get extractors which extract gas from inside your walls so the Radon gas doesn't build up. Heres a page i just pulled up in a Googling:
http://www.radonzone.com/lowerlevel.html

Some places are more likely to have radon gas then others like in south yorkshire there is a big problem with it, while here in the east no one needs to worry about it. Something about granite in the ground releasing radon gas or something, i even heard rumors of granite counters/tiles being suspected radon sources.

Im glad i have wood counters and floors :D

[Sammy]

In addition to contamination via basement infiltration (mitigated by fairly simple ventilation systems), you can also be exposed by taking showers! In some areas, well water contains radon; when the water expands thru the shower head, the radon is released.

The possibility of adverse health effects from radon exposure is considerably increased if you smoke.

The take-home lesson is: have your home tested! Your local health department should be able to provide info if you are concerned, and I think EPA has info ont their web site.

[Glom]

For crying out loud, who the smeg cares? What's going to do you more damage? 2mSv of exposure to radon gas per year, or the effects of worrying yourself into hypertension over it? Like a dirty bomb, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

[electromagneticpulse]

For crying out loud, who the smeg cares? What's going to do you more damage? 2mSv of exposure to radon gas per year, or the effects of worrying yourself into hypertension over it? Like a dirty bomb, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

Mmmm mass panic :D

Glom has a point i actualy think me being around smokers for the next few years of my life in college will do more harm to me then radon gas. I have to say im sometimes in the mood for the second hand nicotine supplyed... if any is :-?

Heres a list of generalized things i would surgest to people:
1, if you live in the city worry more about the car fumes then radon gas
2, if you move(d) to the country worry more about the fumes from the animals and the fertilisers they put on.
If like myself you come from the country
3, worry about getting stuck behind a tractor cause your stress levels will go through the roof and you'll have a stroke.

I think i covered the vast majority of people in 3 quick generalizations for you all to panic over. enjoy :wink: :D

[frogesque]

Damn'n'blast! Just when I'm in the mood for a good solo panic everyone else will be panicky as well.

[electromagneticpulse]

Damn'n'blast! Just when I'm in the mood for a good solo panic everyone else will be panicky as well.

Well you could kick it off and then you wouldn't be a sheep :wink:

[frogesque]

Damn'n'blast! Just when I'm in the mood for a good solo panic everyone else will be panicky as well.

Well you could kick it off and then you wouldn't be a sheep :wink:

ref. Bottled Water thread.

I'm cool man! :lol:

[Sammy]

For crying out loud, who the smeg cares? What's going to do you more damage? 2mSv of exposure to radon gas per year, or the effects of worrying yourself into hypertension over it? Like a dirty bomb, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

Where do you get that exposure level from? How do you know who is exposed to what levels. If you are exposed to high levels (sorry, I don't have the EPA action level at hand), and particularly if you smoke or arround smokers, you have a considerable increased level of lung cancer--something that is NOT a laughing matter. AND, many homes do have elevated levels. You SHOULD care!

[Sammy]

Did some quick research. Go to http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/citguide.html#myths

This is part of the EPA "Citizen's Guide to Radon," and addresses "myths" about radon. Perhaps the most significant is

MYTH: Scientists are not sure that radon really is a problem.

FACT: Although some scientists dispute the precise number of deaths due to radon, all the major health organizations (like the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the American Lung Association and the American Medical Association) agree with estimates that radon causes thousands of preventable lung cancer deaths every year. This is especially true among smokers, since the risk to smokers is much greater than to non-smokers.


There is also a nice relative risk table providing estimates of cancer risk at various exposure levels and comparing that risk to risk of drowning, perishing in a home fire, drowning, etc.

FYI, the action level for mitigation is 4 pCi/L of air.

[Glom]

Calm down, you'll give yourself a stroke. :)

Your fault for not digging up the uranium and burning it. Don't you just like the Greens who insist on leaving uranium in the ground so it can decay and kill us with radon emissions?

The average American radiation dose is 3-4mSv/yr. 60% of that is from radon hence 2mSv/yr. Maybe you just live in a bad area.

But this is a distraction from the real problem of the the 0.1mSv/yr coming from your local nuclear power station.

[frogesque]

I'm not on any 'side' in this debate but does anyone know the level of radioactive products in say a tonne of typical powerstation coal ash? The question may be too simplistic as I realise it would be dependant on the source of the fuel but I am curious.

[Glom]

Radioactive enough that it would set off alarms if taken into a nuclear power station.

[frogesque]

I have since found this (http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev26-34/text/colmain.html)

The answer to my original question seems be, quite a lot. The problem is seaching turns up a lot of woowoo dust and it's difficult to see the cooling towers for the smoke stacks.

Uranium and phosphorous I did expect but thorium was a surprise.

[Sammy]

Calm down, you'll give yourself a stroke. :)

Your fault for not digging up the uranium and burning it. Don't you just like the Greens who insist on leaving uranium in the ground so it can decay and kill us with radon emissions?

The average American radiation dose is 3-4mSv/yr. 60% of that is from radon hence 2mSv/yr. Maybe you just live in a bad area.

But this is a distraction from the real problem of the the 0.1mSv/yr coming from your local nuclear power station.

Somehow, I just can't get much of a laugh from lung cancer.

Do YOU live in a bad area? You won't know unless you test. As for the "average dose," thats a worthless measure of risk.

No one is comparing residential radon risk to exposure from a nuclear plant. Why did you introduce it? Thats a total red herring. I have no probs with nuke plants and have so posted on many of your threads on the subject. I live 20 miles from one, and much perfer that to living within 40-50 miles of a coal-buring power plant.

The point that you seem unable/unwilling to accept is that residential radon is a REAL risk for a defined segment of the WORLD population. It is a needless risk because it is a risk for which one can easily test, and, in most cases, easily mitigate.

[Glom]

Somehow, I just can't get much of a laugh from lung cancer.

Neither can I. I can get a good cough though. :)

Do YOU live in a bad area? You won't know unless you test. As for the "average dose," thats a worthless measure of risk.

I was giving the statistic you asked for.

No one is comparing residential radon risk to exposure from a nuclear plant. Why did you introduce it? Thats a total red herring. I have no probs with nuke plants and have so posted on many of your threads on the subject. I live 20 miles from one, and much perfer that to living within 40-50 miles of a coal-buring power plant.

I was making a joke at the expense of the Greens. It was not intended to attack you because I know you're an ally. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

The point that you seem unable/unwilling to accept is that residential radon is a REAL risk for a defined segment of the WORLD population. It is a needless risk because it is a risk for which one can easily test, and, in most cases, easily mitigate.

I accept it. Hence the remark about how we shouldn't be stopped from digging up the source uranium and burning it. But I am concerned about how much LNT went into those EPA figures.

[Sammy]

OK, now I think we're on the same page. But, let's not make the mistake of assuming that all Greens are hysterical woo woo types. I consider myself a Green, but I try to base my positions on a rational foundation.

I spent 28 years at the U.S. EPA trying to assure that risk protection policy had a rational foundation (tho I never worked on radon per se). Certainly, EPA made mistakes, and some decisions were driven by politics, both internal and external. That said, I think the basis for the radon action level is sound and reflects reality and good judgment.

But--what is "LNT?"

[electromagneticpulse]

Somehow, I just can't get much of a laugh from lung cancer.

Neither can I. I can get a good cough though. :)

Im not so bothered by the glow but when i look in the general direction of hull their is a big glow in the sky. But i should probably be more worried about tractors. Im around smokers all day so i dont really give a damn about my lungs anymore, this doesn't mean im going to start smoking but i think Radon is my last worry.

IMHO a Green with the use of nuclear fuels would be better then a green without. I preffer a little glow to a head ach every day from wind turbines. I'd rather live 1 day and have fun then live 100 and be bored to insanity. Why i want to skydive :D

I personaly am a greenish person, im not up for poisoning the world or having a thick brown haze in the skys. Radiation just adds variety... and sterility 8-[

[zebo-the-fat]

Mmmm mass panic :D

Critical mass panic :o ?

[Paul Mitchell]

Some places are more likely to have radon gas then others like in south yorkshire there is a big problem with it, while here in the east no one needs to worry about it. Something about granite in the ground releasing radon gas or something, i even heard rumors of granite counters/tiles being suspected radon sources.

Im glad i have wood counters and floors :D

This is true. Granite (being basaltic?) often contains trace amounts of Uranium, which as noted above, decays into Radon amongst other things.

It's a known problem in areas with granite buildings, such as Aberdeen or some of the Cornish villages. Also,as noted above, a simple ventilation system prevents a build-up in "dead" spaces such as cellars and lofts.

[electromagneticpulse]

Mmmm mass panic :D

Critical mass panic :o ?

Only if you stick two counters together, if they aren't stored a safe distance apart they will go off with the slightest knock. :lol:

[Sammy]

PaulMitchell wrote:

It's a known problem in areas with granite buildings, such as Aberdeen or some of the Cornish villages. Also,as noted above, a simple ventilation system prevents a build-up in "dead" spaces such as cellars and lofts.

Definetly worse with granite structures, and correct re mitigation techniques. I worked with a nuclear engineer who had run a small university research reactor. They kept getting intermittant radiation wranings from their air monitoring system. But no cause could be found, nor any relation to whether the reactor was critical or not. Finally, some really clever guy tracked it down to radon outgassing from the granite walls of the reactor center. Whenever the local barometric pressure dropped, radon outgassed and set off the alarm!

But please note--radon can also befound in sandy or clay soil as well. Not as prevealent as with rock, but it happens.

[electromagneticpulse]

Well can i just say something that was explained to me, not 100% sure if its right but someone else can confirm or deny it for me.
The previous cycle before ours of our local solar system was part of a supernova explosion which created a large amount of a heavyer element called Uranium. This matter since then has forever been decaying and is in a sense in everything we know. So whats all the big 'hubub' about?

Why are we all so prejudice to our radioactive friend, we should cuddle and embrace it. (From a safe distance ofcourse) But instead we shun it and condem it for what it naturally does but instead we should enjoy its company. (before it gets moved into a neuclear reactor)

[John Jones]

Well can i just say something that was explained to me, not 100% sure if its right but someone else can confirm or deny it for me.
The previous cycle before ours of our local solar system was part of a supernova explosion which created a large amount of a heavyer element called Uranium. This matter since then has forever been decaying and is in a sense in everything we know. So whats all the big 'hubub' about?

Why are we all so prejudice to our radioactive friend, we should cuddle and embrace it. (From a safe distance ofcourse) But instead we shun it and condem it for what it naturally does but instead we should enjoy its company. (before it gets moved into a neuclear reactor)

It's my understanding that supernova explosions are responsible for all elements heavier than iron - not just uranium .

As far as your 'prejudice' remarks go, I'll assume you were joking.