Mad Cow Disease

[Brady Yoon]

I've been reading about Mad Cow Disease and the details sound pretty gruesome. Is there a risk of getting the disease in the United States?

[Doe, John]

There was one reported case about a year ago. The cow in question never made it into the food processing chain and was in fact imported from Canada. The most recent scare has been proven not to be mad cow disease so there is probably no significant risk. From what I understand about the disease it is very selective as to whom it can infect anyway. You have to have a certain gene structure to be susceptible to it. At least that's the way I heard it.

[Brady Yoon]

Whew that's a relief. I guess I can keep eating beef without worry.

[Andromeda321]

Actually wasn't there a report of another cow having the disease in the US last week? Or was I dreaming again...

[Humphrey]

But from what i understand its very unusual to get it even from a infected cow. Don't you have to eat part of the brain or spinal chord to get it? Those are usually thrown out, correct?

[frogesque]

The National Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease Surveillance Unit (http://www.cjd.ed.ac.uk/), University of Edinburgh.

Contains a lot of info and links including support groups for sufferers and their families in the UK

[Amadeus]

But from what i understand its very unusual to get it even from a infected cow. Don't you have to eat part of the brain or spinal chord to get it? Those are usually thrown out, correct?

Depends...
If you eat prime cuts then youre pretty much ok. If you eat burgers..... Well you dont think they just throw all that meat away do you?

In the UK I think it is now banned to use bovine Spinal and brain matter in food. It was also used in feed for other cows.
Dont know about the States though.

My advice is this. If in the states there is an out break then make sure the goverment destroys the entire herd. What happend here in the UK was that for political reasons the problem was ignored for many years....

[SeanF]

Actually wasn't there a report of another cow having the disease in the US last week? Or was I dreaming again...
You are correct, but the final tests came out negative. No MCD.

Oh my, I just realized that the initials of Mad Cow Disease are the first three letters of McDonald's . . . :o

[gethen]

Not to downplay the seriousness of "Mad Cow Disease," but my husband just about blows chunks every time he reads in the paper or sees another scary story about the disease. Why? Well, he's a dairy veterinarian, and he serves on a couple of state boards that are concerned with animal welfare and food safety, and he generally knows about these incidents before they become public knowledge. No animal born and raised in the U.S. has ever tested positive for the disease, and the U.S. has been systematically testing the carcass of every animal that dies with neurologic symptoms for a number of years. Of course, this doesn't mean that it will never happen, but what we do know is that every year hundreds, maybe thousands of people sicken and some die from things like e. coli infections, cryptosporidia, and other much more common food borne diseases. You are much more likely to die from an e.coli infection than from Mad Cow Disease. No one in U.S. has ever died from Mad Cow disease that they contracted in the U.S.
Mad Cow Disease is serious and it's deadly, but it is probably less a threat to our health than a lot of other preventable food borne diseases.

[Amadeus]

Oh my, I just realized that the initials of Mad Cow Disease are the first three letters of McDonald's . . . :o

*Sniff*
Is that a law suite I can smell? :D

[Essan]

I shouldn't worry about getting nvCJD from eating contaminated beef. Apart from the fact that there is as yet no evidence of a causual link, the odds are far more in favour of you being crushed by a runaway bus on your way home tonight.... Do you lie in bed worrying about that?

[sarongsong]

This is what Oprah's run-in with the Texas cattlemen was about, a few years back. Prions are nigh well impossible to destroy.

[Careless]

Actually wasn't there a report of another cow having the disease in the US last week? Or was I dreaming again...
You are correct, but the final tests came out negative. No MCD.

Oh my, I just realized that the initials of Mad Cow Disease are the first three letters of McDonald's . . . :o
And that after it was widely reported as pretty much a sure thing that this cow was infected

[beskeptical]

Not to downplay the seriousness of "Mad Cow Disease," but my husband just about blows chunks every time he reads in the paper or sees another scary story about the disease. Why? Well, he's a dairy veterinarian, and he serves on a couple of state boards that are concerned with animal welfare and food safety, and he generally knows about these incidents before they become public knowledge. No animal born and raised in the U.S. has ever tested positive for the disease, and the U.S. has been systematically testing the carcass of every animal that dies with neurologic symptoms for a number of years. Of course, this doesn't mean that it will never happen, but what we do know is that every year hundreds, maybe thousands of people sicken and some die from things like e. coli infections, cryptosporidia, and other much more common food borne diseases. You are much more likely to die from an e.coli infection than from Mad Cow Disease. No one in U.S. has ever died from Mad Cow disease that they contracted in the U.S.
Mad Cow Disease is serious and it's deadly, but it is probably less a threat to our health than a lot of other preventable food borne diseases.Good post but a word of caution lest we all get too complacent. The US was not as quick to ban feeding dead sheep and other high risk animal products to cows as the infectious disease folks recommended. The fact we finally stopped the practice and so far as we know, (hopefully), before any MCD cases occurred can not be credited to the beef and feed industries, but rather to food safety activists.

And, as to the testing of all downed animals, that is somewhat suspect. After the MCD case showed up in WA State a few years ago, it was reported by the media that not all downed cows were being tested and the definition of a downed cow had too much wiggle room. I doubt that has changed.

But as to the rational fear here, the fact MCD is exotic and unpleasantly fatal makes it more feared than the mundane hazards which by far exceed MCD in risk level. How's your food handling practices? Use that cutting board for raw meat and then think a quick wipe will disinfect the salmonella and e-coli bacteria from it? Still using sponges in your kitchen?

And while you're at it, are those smoke alarm batteries still good? Do you even have a smoke alarm?

[Maha Vailo]

But as to the rational fear here, the fact MCD is exotic and unpleasantly fatal makes it more feared than the mundane hazards which by far exceed MCD in risk level. How's your food handling practices? Use that cutting board for raw meat and then think a quick wipe will disinfect the salmonella and e-coli bacteria from it? Still using sponges in your kitchen?

So, how should I disinfect my cutting boards? And what should I use instead of sponges?

- Maha "Forget mad cow - beware of mad human!" Vailo

[Humphrey]

But as to the rational fear here, the fact MCD is exotic and unpleasantly fatal makes it more feared than the mundane hazards which by far exceed MCD in risk level. How's your food handling practices? Use that cutting board for raw meat and then think a quick wipe will disinfect the salmonella and e-coli bacteria from it? Still using sponges in your kitchen?

So, how should I disinfect my cutting boards? And what should I use instead of sponges?

- Maha "Forget mad cow - beware of mad human!" Vailo

Well the second is easy: tought paper towels, or disposable dish wipes. Ive seen them around. Very expensive, but it works well. :-)

Personally i use sponges for normal dish washing and paper towels for anything with meats.
I also have several cutting boards. Wood for fruits and nearly everything non-meat. And plastic for meats that can go in the dishwasher.

[Amadeus]

Normal dish washing temperatures would not kill the prions.

The temperatures needed are very hot. The was a story a while back hear about hospitals have to use disposable scalples because the sterlisers cannot get hot enough to kill prions.

Your best bet is not to worry and just hope your goverment is responceable enough to risk a short term public scare over a long term health hazard.

[gethen]

Normal dish washing temperatures would not kill the prions.

I'm not sure we can kill the prions, period. From what I've heard they're just about indestructible.

Humphrey, I generally use a bit of chlorine bleach to disinfect a cutting board that I've used to cut up meat (raw or cooked.) And I never use a wooden cutting board to cut meat.

I've also been told it's a good idea to put your dish cloth in the microwave and heat daily it until it steams to kill bacteria that may grow there. Or use a fresh one frequently.

Thanks for the correction, Beskeptikal. Should have checked those dates with Hubby before posting.

[sarongsong]

"...Although the incubation period after initial exposure can be quite long, once clinical signs and symptoms begin, death usually occurs within about a year..."
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2001/201_cow.html
'Quite long'?! :o
---I've heard estimates of from 4 to 30 years---there'll be no beef on MY cutting boards [-(

[Kesh]

I actually attended a lecture and Q&A session with the guy who discovered the 'disease' a few years ago. Quite informative.

Yes, the prions themselves are only found in neural tissue. Brains, spinal column, major nerve trunks... so, any meat which has no contact with those (steaks and such) are perfectly fine.

You start worrying when it's processed meats. Hamburger is mostly safe, but there are "mystery meats" blended in sometimes. Sausage is your worst offender, since they tend to grind bone, and mix the "good" meats in with the leftover meats, including brains and such.

It's quite interesting. What happened is that this was a disease originally found in sheep. It was never a problem until recently, because in the late 80's or early 90's, Britain relaxed their strict meat processing laws. Turns out, part of this involved lowering the heat necessary for processing meats in animal feed. And one thing was that the feed made for cattle also involved leftover bits from other cows and sheep. That's how it spread from sheep to cattle, and from there to humans.

I think those of us in the US don't have too much to worry about. It's still a threat, but not a serious one. If you're truly concerned, just avoid processed meats and their products (sausages, ground meats, etc.).

As for cleaning your boards and cutlery, I believe about the only thing that would destroy the prions was bleach. Not practical for everyday use, but it's always a good idea to bleach your cutlery, cookware and storage containers once in a while anyway.

I do, however, think it's a good idea to set aside a few knives and a cutting board specifically for your red meats and one for your white meats on principle. That way, there's little chance of spreading any germs to your veggies or other foods.

[fossilnut]

Don't be fooled by the 'testing'. The cattle lobby is scared to death that the public will wise up and demand that EVERY animal be tested (as is done in Japan).

They know that there would be a significant number of cases found and it would be a PR disaster for the industry.

I don't know if Mad Cow is a significant issue or not. Just be aware that there's a multi billion dollar industry with millions of dollars in lobbying money trying to convince you that it isn't.

If I had young children I wouldn't feed them supermarket beef and certainly wouldn't have them drink milk. A physician friend of mine once said he'd rather his 11-year-old daughter drank an 8 ounce glass of beer than a glass of milk. At least he knows what's in the beer. A lot of farmers in our area keep one cow 'clean' for milk for their family's consumption.

Has your child drank their quota of antibiotics and hormones today?

[beskeptical]

Normal dish washing temperatures would not kill the prions.

I'm not sure we can kill the prions, period. From what I've heard they're just about indestructible.

Humphrey, I generally use a bit of chlorine bleach to disinfect a cutting board that I've used to cut up meat (raw or cooked.) And I never use a wooden cutting board to cut meat.

I've also been told it's a good idea to put your dish cloth in the microwave and heat daily it until it steams to kill bacteria that may grow there. Or use a fresh one frequently.

Thanks for the correction, Beskeptikal. Should have checked those dates with Hubby before posting.Oh dear. :o About that microwave thing.....

The microwaved dishcloth isn't going to be safe unless you check that the internal temp is 160F or so. And, I'm not sure seeing steam means you're at that temperature. The fresh one is a better idea. The washing machine with a normal hot cycle won't sterilize your dish cloths but by the time they are washed and dried, they are unlikely to transmit any infectious diseases.

I use dish cloths and they go in the laundry after each use. If I am cleaning a surface food will be on, I get a fresh one regardless.

Wiping off the counter tops and things with dilute bleach or other cleaners is just fine. I just wouldn't rely on it to clean that cutting board. 10% bleach will disinfect most things but it can take 30 minutes, depending on the organism. That means 30 minutes immersed in the solution, not merely waiting 30 minutes after you wipe it off. (And, don't forget after 24 hours, the 10% solution you mixed will lose chlorine to the air so it won't be 10% by the next day.)

Dishwashers only render items safe if the item has a smooth surface. Plastic cutting boards are not so smooth. Though putting a plastic cutting board in the dishwasher probably will make it safe most of the time.

Best solution is to have separate surfaces for foods you plan to eat raw and those that need to be cooked. It isn't the prions you need to worry about. It is the salmonella that is on almost all raw chicken. Salmonella has also been found on cantaloupe and other foods that grow on the ground so be careful with those as well. The other big hazard is e-coli 0157 H7 in beef.

If there are prions on your cutting board, you're in big trouble because that would mean they are in your meat and cooking will not help. We even have to throw away surgical instruments if they've been contaminated with the brain tissue of a person with a prion disease. BSE, otherwise known as mad cow, is probably only a risk from eating brain and spinal tissue from an affected cow. I hope cow brains are not on your cutting board. :wink:

Microwaved sponges and dishcloths, as well as putting either in the dishwasher to disinfect them are common misconceptions. Another common one I hear all the time is that wooden cutting boards have antibacterial properties, which is also not true. Bacteria love wood as much as any other organic material.

Which reminds me, there are all these products now with antibacterial or antiviral chemicals in them. Don't waste your money. The real test isn't whether the chemical used disinfects, the test is whether the treated product prevents disease. The jury is out on the germ killing Kleenex but the rest of the treated products don't have much of a track record for effectiveness.

[beskeptical]

"...Although the incubation period after initial exposure can be quite long, once clinical signs and symptoms begin, death usually occurs within about a year..."
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2001/201_cow.html
'Quite long'?! :o
---I've heard estimates of from 4 to 30 years---there'll be no beef on MY cutting boards [-(Life's pleasures are always a trade off for some risks. If you like beef, the risk of BSE is pretty minimal.

You do often bring up these interesting articles on various hazards. I'm curious, do you drive? Do you travel anywhere out of your house for that matter? Do you live in a city with any smog? How's your diet in general? What's your level of physical activity? Do you follow the Cancer Society's recommendations on preventative health tests? Have you had your cholesterol tested lately?

[beskeptical]

Don't be fooled by the 'testing'. The cattle lobby is scared to death that the public will wise up and demand that EVERY animal be tested (as is done in Japan).

They know that there would be a significant number of cases found and it would be a PR disaster for the industry.

I don't know if Mad Cow is a significant issue or not. Just be aware that there's a multi billion dollar industry with millions of dollars in lobbying money trying to convince you that it isn't.There is some truth to this but you can let that paranoia get carried away.

Testing all cows means we pay for those tests. Just as there are thousands of tests I can order for a patient, it is not productive to do so. I have to order the tests that are likely to be significant. It makes no sense to screen every single patient for HIV, for example. But I do want to test everyone who has enough risk to indicate a need for the test.

If we find more BSE, or if there was an indication contaminated feed was used in a herd, then more testing is indicated. I believe they are trying to track down and test all the cows that might have come from herds that were fed the contaminated feed from the Canadian feed supplier.

I most certainly avoid all products that use the parts of the cow that might have brain or spinal tissue in it. For example, I rarely eat hot dogs. But I don't want to pay to test all cows when there are other hazards my money might be better spent avoiding.

If I had young children I wouldn't feed them supermarket beef and certainly wouldn't have them drink milk. A physician friend of mine once said he'd rather his 11-year-old daughter drank an 8 ounce glass of beer than a glass of milk. At least he knows what's in the beer. That's just plain silly. Do you see people who drink milk dropping dead all around you? Do you think by avoiding milk you'll live to be 90 instead of 80 or something?

A lot of farmers in our area keep one cow 'clean' for milk for their family's consumption. That is a bit hard to believe. Why do you believe it?

Has your child drank their quota of antibiotics and hormones today? Now here is something with a bit of truth to it. But instead of having a cow over this, :wink: why not just work to change it? It costs more to buy the beef and chicken that are raised without hormones and antibiotics. I pay more in this case. It encourages the production of food without all the additives and we avoid the hormones. Also, organic food production puts less of these chemicals into the environment where they have been detected in run off from farms and ranches.

But don't forget the trade off. Not everyone can afford the higher costs. And food production may not be sufficient for the planet without the current chemicals. We need safer alternatives. Exaggerating the risks will probably do very little to change things.

Which gives me a place to bring up something I learned recently and perhaps spread the word. The use of the word 'natural' at your local meat market is a scam. I came across it and decided there must be a catch or they would be using the term organic.

Sure enough, 'natural' only means nothing was added AFTER the animal was killed. It says nothing about the animal being raised without antibiotics or hormones. It irks me they are even allowed to use the term since it clearly is meant to deceive.

[beskeptical]

.....
As for cleaning your boards and cutlery, I believe about the only thing that would destroy the prions was bleach. Not practical for everyday use, but it's always a good idea to bleach your cutlery, cookware and storage containers once in a while anyway.

I do, however, think it's a good idea to set aside a few knives and a cutting board specifically for your red meats and one for your white meats on principle. That way, there's little chance of spreading any germs to your veggies or other foods.Bleach will not destroy prions or we could use it on surgical instruments.

Bleach might corrode some metals. You can use it on your silverware, but it isn't necessary. And, using it "once in a while" doesn't have any long term effect so what is the point?

Again, the measure of what is needed isn't whether or not you sterilize your dishes, it is whether or not disease spreads or is prevented from spreading. There isn't a big problem with washed dishes. There is a problem with cutting boards and food preparation surfaces. There is a problem with sponges and dish cloths that collect and spread bacteria. And your sink is a bacteria's heaven. Use a colander when washing raw foods.

Then eat, drink and be merry! :D :D Remember, stress can be harmful as well.

[Kesh]

.....
As for cleaning your boards and cutlery, I believe about the only thing that would destroy the prions was bleach. Not practical for everyday use, but it's always a good idea to bleach your cutlery, cookware and storage containers once in a while anyway.

I do, however, think it's a good idea to set aside a few knives and a cutting board specifically for your red meats and one for your white meats on principle. That way, there's little chance of spreading any germs to your veggies or other foods.Bleach will not destroy prions or we could use it on surgical instruments.

At the time, that was the only thing that had been found to work in some tests, aside from extreme heat. It may have been disproven since that lecture (1998 or 1999), but that's what he offered as about the only thing that he could think of that would work.

Bleach might corrode some metals. You can use it on your silverware, but it isn't necessary. And, using it "once in a while" doesn't have any long term effect so what is the point?

While it's of dubious use with prions, it sure as hell kills bacteria. Even for temporary cleaning, that's better than germs surviving the regular wash on your cutting board. ;)

Again, the measure of what is needed isn't whether or not you sterilize your dishes, it is whether or not disease spreads or is prevented from spreading. There isn't a big problem with washed dishes. There is a problem with cutting boards and food preparation surfaces. There is a problem with sponges and dish cloths that collect and spread bacteria. And your sink is a bacteria's heaven. Use a colander when washing raw foods.

Then eat, drink and be merry! :D :D Remember, stress can be harmful as well.

Oh, hell yes, sponges are nasty things. And I agree with you (for the most part) on the rest. I'm not worried, but there's a healthy amount of precaution to take when dealing with raw meats.

Poultry's worse than red meats, by far. I'm not worried about VKJD (aka Mad Cow). Just the occasional salmonella. :)

[Maksutov]

Oh my, I just realized that the initials of Mad Cow Disease are the first three letters of McDonald's . . . :o

*Sniff*
Is that a law suite I can smell? :D
Nah.

That's why MickeyD's current ad campaign is pushing their product as "ghettoburgers" to cool, hip, lower-class city types. That way their target customer-base couldn't afford to sue them.

As Cartman would say, "Suite!"

[Maksutov]

It might interest some of the posters on this thread to know that this man is still alive! (http://espn.go.com/page2/s/caple/020703.html)

"Kobayashi ate 17.7 pounds of cow brains in 15 minutes..."

Not bad! I wonder if his stomach smarted... 8)

[NEOWatcher]

Danger: Thread back from the grave....

Story today on CNN... Mad cow disease kills mother and son (http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/conditions/09/25/mad.cow.spain/index.html)


Expert: First case where two members of same family died from mad cow disease
The mother and son had similar eating habits and may have eaten animal brains
There have been four deaths in Spain from mad cow disease since 2005


I was hoping that somebody has more knowledge of mad cow to tell me why this is so noteworthy as to be a top story.

Ok; first time in the same family...but I can't get past the fact that this is a disease from the food, and that the same family eats the same and most likely shares plenty of meals together. Therefore, why would son going to moms for an old fashioned brain dinner be out of the question?

They seem to talk about many connections except for a shared meal. Is it me, or is the story trying to make it a bigger mystery than it is?

[Swift]

I was hoping that somebody has more knowledge of mad cow to tell me why this is so noteworthy as to be a top story.

I think you want someone with more knowledge of journalism or marketing to answer that. ;)

[NEOWatcher]

I think you want someone with more knowledge of journalism or marketing to answer that. ;)
Exactly; :lol:
I have enough knowledge of journalism and marketing from my own anecdotal experience to know not to ask any of those "someones".

[NosePicker]

The fact that two people from one family caught the disease could indicate a change in the disease itself, meaning it is becoming easier to catch. Who knows.

[mahesh]

vCJD / BSE / MCD is not contagious.

It has a long incubation period. So it might express itself, years down the road.

According to Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_spongiform_encephalopathy#BSE_statistics_by _country

The UK has had by far the most fatalities/infections. Don't know how updated the info is.

Oh my, I just realized that the initials of Mad Cow Disease are the first three letters of McDonald's . . .
:D

[Swift]

The fact that two people from one family caught the disease could indicate a change in the disease itself, meaning it is becoming easier to catch. Who knows.
Nothing personal, but I find that funny, coming from someone with your username. ;)

Seriously, if the disease had become airbourne, there would be a heck of a lot more people who were sick.

[mahesh]

Swift, its transmission is not aerobic. arises from ingesting infected meat. whatever cuts, however cut.