Myth? Red-haired people susceptible to sunburn

[TriangleMan]

I've heard this a few times, mostly from redheads, how because they have red hair they have to be more careful about sun exposure because they "burn eaiser" then non-redheads. Does anyone know if this is true? This would imply a genetic link somehow.

[SeanOberle]

Redheads tend to also have pale skin, which renders them suceptible to sunburn. It's not the red hair, but the skin.

It is very uncommon, but not unheard of, for "non-whites" to be natural redheads. They would not be overly susceptible to sunburn.

As for genetic links, one of the highest incidence of red hair is among the Irish and Scottish (although the red hair gene is a Viking contribution to that gene pool). Scots and Irish typically burn very easily regardless of their hair color.

I'm a brunet of partial Irish ancestry. I have two colors -- fish belly white and lobster red. It is impossible for me to tan.

People of Scottish and Irish ancestry have the highest incidence of skin cancer. Australia has one of the highest rates of skin cancer due to the combination of lots of sun and very high percent (majority??) of the population being of Scottish and Irish ancestry.

[Musashi]

I think it has more to do with the fact that most redheads have fair skin.

[TriangleMan]

I'll be more specific, is there any truth to redheads being more susceptible to sunburn then to other fair-skinned people with different hair colours (such as blonde)? I can't see it being true unless the hair colour is somehow linked to less melanin in the skin or something. :-k

[Wally]

There's gotta be a genetic link between red hair and lack of melanolin in the skin. I don't think I've ever seen a tanned redhead before!

Even seems kinda strange to picture one. . . :-?

[dgruss23]

I'll be more specific, is there any truth to redheads being more susceptible to sunburn then to other fair-skinned people with different hair colours (such as blonde)? I can't see it being true unless the hair colour is somehow linked to less melanin in the skin or something. :-k

I have reddish hair and I get lectured every yearly visit to my dermatologist to avoid the Sun. Reddish hair must be linked in some way to the amount of melanin in the skin. I get a very weak tan - partly because I limit my Sun exposure, but even if I get a burn the tan that results is pretty lame. I'm sure it varies from person to person, but it seems to be a trend.

On a slightly different note about genetic links to red hair - when I had my wisdom teeth out, the doctor told me it would take a lot to put me out for the surgery - because of my red hair. I thought he was joking. He told me afterwards that the kid that went in after me - who had twice my body weight - required only half the anesthesia that they needed to put me out. I've never bothered to read up on this, but practicing doctors seem to know about it from experience.

[Swift]

There's gotta be a genetic link between red hair and lack of melanolin in the skin. I don't think I've ever seen a tanned redhead before!

Even seems kinda strange to picture one. . . :-?
Good question about blonds too, who tend to be fair skinned. But you do see tanned blonds. Maybe they're just not real blonds?

I'm brown haired and medium complexion, so I have no personal insight. I have had fair-skinned, red-haired friends and they do tend to have two colors - white and lobster red.

[dgruss23]

I have had fair-skinned, red-haired friends and they do tend to have two colors - white and lobster red.

:lol:

The lobster red types aren't listening to their dermatologists!

[Thumper]

We can further complicate the study, with eye color. Off the cuff observations show that blond hair/blue eye people (me) are fairer skinned, harder to tan and easier to burn. I can get tan but I burn easy. I have to load on the sunscreen many many times per day and it takes forever to tan.

Brown or green eyed blonds (say people from Spain or Northern Italy) seem to be darker complected and easier to tan. Also I tend to do what alot of red heads in the sun do: get more freckles.

[Swift]

I have had fair-skinned, red-haired friends and they do tend to have two colors - white and lobster red.

:lol:

The lobster red types aren't listening to their dermatologists!
That is the truth. One of the biggest lobsters was my friend Carl, a fellow EMT. Almost got himself hospitalized a couple of times he was so burnt. You'd think after the first two or three times he would have learned? :roll:

[cid]

some suggest, that redhair is a leftover from homo neanderthalensis (?), which i consider as a possibility, since if it would be related to albinism somehow, the hair should be white.
well....on glp it was merely like 'we redheads own the world and you reptilian engineered people should get away' ....weird....

being red-blonde myself, i can truely say, that i don't really care, even if just last week, some old fart told me during an argument, he was loosing, that i'm cursed by the devil.Yep, germans are strange sometimes :)

[QuagmaPhage]

Being a redhead myself I haven't really been able to avoid getting sunburned for years so I know about this from personal experience. A couple of years ago I bookmarked a page about this topic so I was able to dig this link up:

Red Hair Can Hurt (http://www.or.org/RecentEvents/ornews/IMPACT_SPR2003.html)

For the genetic link between red hair and melanin the study says this:

Liem says redheads may have a "dysfuntional melanocortin 1 receptor" on the pigment cells for skin and hair. The receptor may trigger a feedback mechanism that releases a hormone needed by these cells. Yet the same hormone also stimulates a brain receptor that increases pain sensitivity.

[beskeptical]

some suggest, that redhair is a leftover from homo neanderthalensis (?), which i consider as a possibility, since if it would be related to albinism somehow, the hair should be white.
...Come on Cid. :roll: Who are these 'some' people? When you find yourself repeating things from nebulous 'theys' and 'some people' you really ought to check your facts before perpetuating nonsense.

Genetic research has shown none of us are related to Neanderthals. We have common ancestors but are on separate evolutionary branches. Some anthropologists aren't quite ready to accept the evidence but genetics will in the end have the last 'definitive' word.

[N C More]

Ok, I have dark brown/auburn hair, blue eyes and white skin. I have to agree that I burn far more easily than my darker skinned friends (see my BABB pix and you'll notice my face is redder than normal, the pix was taken in summer). However, is this due to the fairness of the skin rather than the hair color? My daughter is a strawberry blonde with hazel eyes and she tans better than I...go figure!

[TriangleMan]

Thanks QuagmaPhage, I was able to use some of the information in your link to refine my google search.

I found a link (http://www.skincancer.org/melanoma/red-hair.php) citing a couple of studies that may link red hair with susceptibility to UV.

Note the caveat though:
These two studies strongly suggest that variations in the MC1R gene are associated with red hair, fair skin, and increased melanoma risk. If the research is validated, it could enhance identification of people at high risk of developing melanoma, and potentially could offer avenues to reduce risk.

However, the studies are based on small numbers of subjects and need to be confirmed in larger populations, including those with different hair color and skin pigment patterns. Scientists must also develop a better general understanding of how MC1R works. In addition, future research must pinpoint just which variations, if any, of MC1R influence melanoma risk, how they impact on melanoma, how they function in families, and whether having more than one variation increases melanoma risk. Investigators also need to learn whether MC1R variations act in concert with other genes to influence melanoma risk, and what part sun exposure and other environmental factors may play in creating or exacerbating these genetic variations.

[Doodler]

Being a redhead myself I haven't really been able to avoid getting sunburned for years so I know about this from personal experience. A couple of years ago I bookmarked a page about this topic so I was able to dig this link up:

Red Hair Can Hurt (http://www.or.org/RecentEvents/ornews/IMPACT_SPR2003.html)

For the genetic link between red hair and melanin the study says this:

Liem says redheads may have a "dysfuntional melanocortin 1 receptor" on the pigment cells for skin and hair. The receptor may trigger a feedback mechanism that releases a hormone needed by these cells. Yet the same hormone also stimulates a brain receptor that increases pain sensitivity.

There's your explanation for more anastesia.[/b]

[dgruss23]

Being a redhead myself I haven't really been able to avoid getting sunburned for years so I know about this from personal experience. A couple of years ago I bookmarked a page about this topic so I was able to dig this link up:

Red Hair Can Hurt (http://www.or.org/RecentEvents/ornews/IMPACT_SPR2003.html)

For the genetic link between red hair and melanin the study says this:

Liem says redheads may have a "dysfuntional melanocortin 1 receptor" on the pigment cells for skin and hair. The receptor may trigger a feedback mechanism that releases a hormone needed by these cells. Yet the same hormone also stimulates a brain receptor that increases pain sensitivity.

There's your explanation for more anastesia.[/b]

Interesting thought. Could you expand upon that? There is a difference between pain and putting someone out. Is there a brain connection between the two phenomenon?

[Disinfo Agent]

Interesting topic!

I can't see it being true unless the hair colour is somehow linked to less melanin in the skin or something. :-k
Perhaps beskeptical can find the answer to that, if there is one...

There's gotta be a genetic link between red hair and lack of melanolin in the skin. I don't think I've ever seen a tanned redhead before!

Even seems kinda strange to picture one. . . :-?
I'm sure you've seen tanned redheads. They may just not be as dark as other tanned people. ;-)

I seem to recall seeing redheaded aborigines from Australia and Papua New Guinea (in pictures and films), but I haven't had much success googling for pictures...

On a slightly different note about genetic links to red hair - when I had my wisdom teeth out, the doctor told me it would take a lot to put me out for the surgery - because of my red hair. I thought he was joking. He told me afterwards that the kid that went in after me - who had twice my body weight - required only half the anesthesia that they needed to put me out. I've never bothered to read up on this, but practicing doctors seem to know about it from experience.
Wow! :o
Also:

Confusingly, the gene - Mc1r - is thought to give a different pain
response in men than in women - suggesting their brains are different (so
what's new...!)
see http://www.healthanddiets.com/article24.html for details

found here (http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2004-02/1076081653.Ge.r.html)
Brown or green eyed blonds (say people from Spain or Northern Italy) seem to be darker complected and easier to tan. Also I tend to do what alot of red heads in the sun do: get more freckles.
Well, who wouldn't be tanned, if he lived in Spain or Italy? ;-)

some suggest, that redhair is a leftover from homo neanderthalensis (?), which i consider as a possibility, since if it would be related to albinism somehow, the hair should be white.
well....
Apparently, not so:

Research suggesting that red hair is a 'remnant' of a Neanderthal
ancestor, is widely reported, but, according to the original researchers,
wrong. It is thoght that the gene dates FROM THE TIME OF Neanderthal man;
not necessarily FROM him. The evidence is not decisive either way.
see http://www.ox.ac.uk/blueprint/2000-01/3105/11.shtml

from the same site as above

P.S. As a fairly fair-skinned person (but not a redhead), I have to say, about sunburns: Just say no! [-X :evil:
It's really not worth the hassle. (Sunblock helps for a while, but always be cautious.)

[cid]

Thanks for the info :)

[dgruss23]

Wait, DisInfo Agent, did you have some reference to a source that said fair skinned people need more anasthesia? It was there, then it was gone. :)

[Disinfo Agent]

Yes. It's on the page that I link to above. I took it out, because it's another reference to Dr. Liem's research.

[Doodler]

Being a redhead myself I haven't really been able to avoid getting sunburned for years so I know about this from personal experience. A couple of years ago I bookmarked a page about this topic so I was able to dig this link up:

Red Hair Can Hurt (http://www.or.org/RecentEvents/ornews/IMPACT_SPR2003.html)

For the genetic link between red hair and melanin the study says this:

Liem says redheads may have a "dysfuntional melanocortin 1 receptor" on the pigment cells for skin and hair. The receptor may trigger a feedback mechanism that releases a hormone needed by these cells. Yet the same hormone also stimulates a brain receptor that increases pain sensitivity.

There's your explanation for more anastesia.[/b]

Interesting thought. Could you expand upon that? There is a difference between pain and putting someone out. Is there a brain connection between the two phenomenon?

Its not a difference, but the same reaction taken to different levels.

Novacaine is a local anastetic that works in the immediate area of application (I forget the name of the topical numbing agent they use before they poke you). It deadens the nerves in the immediate area of interest.

Full anastetics, like ether, work systemically, putting you completely under. (I use ether as an example, I'm not sure what the knock out gas du jour is these days)

Its a question of intensity and patient tolerance, but the effect is the same, the pain response is deadened.

[dgruss23]

Being a redhead myself I haven't really been able to avoid getting sunburned for years so I know about this from personal experience. A couple of years ago I bookmarked a page about this topic so I was able to dig this link up:

Red Hair Can Hurt (http://www.or.org/RecentEvents/ornews/IMPACT_SPR2003.html)

For the genetic link between red hair and melanin the study says this:

Liem says redheads may have a "dysfuntional melanocortin 1 receptor" on the pigment cells for skin and hair. The receptor may trigger a feedback mechanism that releases a hormone needed by these cells. Yet the same hormone also stimulates a brain receptor that increases pain sensitivity.

There's your explanation for more anastesia.[/b]

Interesting thought. Could you expand upon that? There is a difference between pain and putting someone out. Is there a brain connection between the two phenomenon?

Its not a difference, but the same reaction taken to different levels.

Novacaine is a local anastetic that works in the immediate area of application (I forget the name of the topical numbing agent they use before they poke you). It deadens the nerves in the immediate area of interest.

Full anastetics, like ether, work systemically, putting you completely under. (I use ether as an example, I'm not sure what the knock out gas du jour is these days)

Its a question of intensity and patient tolerance, but the effect is the same, the pain response is deadened.

Ok, so if you're more sensitive to pain, the nerves are more active - which means more anasthetics are needed to put you out - ie shut down the nerves?

[Gillianren]

I have a physical appearance that's called "Black Irish"--dark hair, light eyes, very pale skin. last summer may have been the first summer in history that I made through w/out even a minor burn. (I didn't get out much.) I don't tan. I lived in Los Angeles County for the first 18 years of my life, and I never tanned. I burned a lot, though.

I know a very tan redhead, though I'll admit that I don't know if the hair is her natural colour. I've never dared ask.

[Doodler]

Being a redhead myself I haven't really been able to avoid getting sunburned for years so I know about this from personal experience. A couple of years ago I bookmarked a page about this topic so I was able to dig this link up:

Red Hair Can Hurt (http://www.or.org/RecentEvents/ornews/IMPACT_SPR2003.html)

For the genetic link between red hair and melanin the study says this:

Liem says redheads may have a "dysfuntional melanocortin 1 receptor" on the pigment cells for skin and hair. The receptor may trigger a feedback mechanism that releases a hormone needed by these cells. Yet the same hormone also stimulates a brain receptor that increases pain sensitivity.

There's your explanation for more anastesia.[/b]

Interesting thought. Could you expand upon that? There is a difference between pain and putting someone out. Is there a brain connection between the two phenomenon?

Its not a difference, but the same reaction taken to different levels.

Novacaine is a local anastetic that works in the immediate area of application (I forget the name of the topical numbing agent they use before they poke you). It deadens the nerves in the immediate area of interest.

Full anastetics, like ether, work systemically, putting you completely under. (I use ether as an example, I'm not sure what the knock out gas du jour is these days)

Its a question of intensity and patient tolerance, but the effect is the same, the pain response is deadened.

Ok, so if you're more sensitive to pain, the nerves are more active - which means more anasthetics are needed to put you out - ie shut down the nerves?

Basically. No two people have the same pain threshold, and some people are more susceptable to it. Its not that there's something wrong with you, its just that the right answer in your case is more than what someone else needs.

It can also vary, depending on what they are doing. Take me as an example. I've had minor work done that's required only the topical with no injection to follow up. In some cases, its the topical with a novacaine shot. In one rare case, it was a fairly deep bit of drilling that had to be done, and it required three injections to fully numb.

When I had my wisdom teeth pulled, I was doped up pretty hard, though not completely out. I felt nothing, but vividly remember the crunching of the impacted tooth being broken up to remove it.

[Disinfo Agent]

I can't see it being true unless the hair colour is somehow linked to less melanin in the skin or something. :-k
Actually, according to that site I linked to above, it is!

Gingerhaired people produce little melanin (the dark pigment in hair and skin) and so are more vulnerable to sunburn and skin cancer. [...]

As mentioned before, the pigment in the hair is called melanin. This comes in two forms: eumelanin and pheomelanin. Eumelanin is the pigment we all associate with a suntan. In the skin it acts as a protective factor against UV rays, but in hair it gives rise to black colour. Ginger and brown hair colours are due to pheomelanin (more pheomelanin thaneumelanin occurs in the skin of red-haired people and this is why they often suffer badly from sunburn).
It's the same pigment for skin and hair! Very interesting. :o

[Charlie in Dayton]

My hair was much lighter when I was a kid, almost blond...but it eventually became brown (and now liberally sprinkled with silver). (Yes, I said silver -- gray is for the common folk.)

Little brother #1 is the same as me, 'cept his sprinkle is gray...ahem...

Little brother #2 and little sister #2 both have distinctively reddish hair. Can't recall for lb#2 as the subject never came up, but ls#2 lives out Arizona way, and notes how she must take extra preventive measures as she'll lobsterize in a heartbeat. How interesting -- as she lives about 3 miles from lb#1, and he/wife/kids (none of whom show reddish tendencies) don't have to take any more than the normal precautions.

Me? I took a trip out that way a number of years back. Something like ten days with an elbow out the driver's window. While I did wind up with a Grade A trucker's tan, I never burnt once.

[mickal555]

my hair was blonde when I was born but it quickly went brown
I hardly ever get sunburnt once twice in my life... this isn't due to lack of sun though as I am always out in our HOT sun. I also never get stung by mozzies, but my sisteres get eaten to pieces!

[dvb]

Sorry to drift off topic slightly, but does anyone know if there's a connection between having a red beard, and going grey at an early age? I have light brown hair myself, but the hair on my beard is like a firey red. One of my fathers friends noticed that I'm going grey on the sides, and told me that it's because of my red beard. He told me that the same thing had happened to him when he was my age because of his red beard. Apparently he was told this by a hair dresser that he had visited while trying to get his hair dyed. He said the hair dresser told him that people pay money to get grey streaks along the side of their head, and that he should leave it the way it is. Personally, I kinda like it. I'll be turning 25 this month with quite a few visible greys.

[CTM VT 2K]

Sorry to drift off topic slightly, but does anyone know if there's a connection between having a red beard, and going grey at an early age? I have light brown hair myself, but the hair on my beard is like a firey red. One of my fathers friends noticed that I'm going grey on the sides, and told me that it's because of my red beard. He told me that the same thing had happened to him when he was my age because of his red beard. Apparently he was told this by a hair dresser that he had visited while trying to get his hair dyed. He said the hair dresser told him that people pay money to get grey streaks along the side of their head, and that he should leave it the way it is. Personally, I kinda like it. I'll be turning 25 this month with quite a few visible greys.

I hadn't heard that, but I have a similar expirence: My beard is red, and I had flecks of silver on the sides of my (otherwise dark brown) head. Never thought much about it until I saw your post. I first noticed the silver hairs at about 24 or 25, while I was in college. I attributed it to the stress of being an Engineering Student.

[Doodler]

Sorry to drift off topic slightly, but does anyone know if there's a connection between having a red beard, and going grey at an early age?

I wouldn't put much weight in it. My hair is dark brown, almost black, and I found the first of my grays at 19. Even now approaching 31, the salt is clearly visible in the pepper. :)

From what I understand of hair heredity, its your maternal grandfather that seems to be the key to graying/loss.

[Candy]

It can also vary, depending on what they are doing. Take me as an example. I've had minor work done that's required only the topical with no injection to follow up. In some cases, its the topical with a novacaine shot. In one rare case, it was a fairly deep bit of drilling that had to be done, and it required three injections to fully numb.

When I had my wisdom teeth pulled, I was doped up pretty hard, though not completely out. I felt nothing, but vividly remember the crunching of the impacted tooth being broken up to remove it.
I'm a true redhead, and I have had similar experiences with the dentist. They have to shoot me 2-3 times with novacaine for the pain (simple procedures).

I had my wisdom teeth out, and they gave me some shot that took twice as long as the average person before I passed out.

My oldest brother has brown hair, blue eyes, white skin, noticeable big freckles, redish beard, and burns in the sun.

My other older brother has sandy brown hair, brown eyes, olive skin and tans quite nicely.

My older sister has dark brown hair, brown eyes, olive skin and tans quite nicely.

I have redhair, hazel eyes, [edit] white skin, cute little freckles, and I can tan over a period of time after laying in the sun for 30 minutes at a time. Otherwise, I burn.

I am the only one getting white hair the older I get.

I once met an albino who was darker than me. :o
He said he took pills that helped with pigmentation. It's been so long ago, that I can't remember exactly what he told me. I do remember asking his for some of those pills. 8-[

[dgruss23]

It can also vary, depending on what they are doing. Take me as an example. I've had minor work done that's required only the topical with no injection to follow up. In some cases, its the topical with a novacaine shot. In one rare case, it was a fairly deep bit of drilling that had to be done, and it required three injections to fully numb.

When I had my wisdom teeth pulled, I was doped up pretty hard, though not completely out. I felt nothing, but vividly remember the crunching of the impacted tooth being broken up to remove it.
I'm a true redhead, and I have had similar experiences with the dentist. They have to shoot me 2-3 times with novacaine for the pain (simple procedures).

I had my wisdom teeth out, and they gave me some shot that took twice as long as the average person before I passed out.

That's exactly what happened to me. It was a weird feeling when the first dose didn't quite finish the job so I was laying there doped up.