My Persian Is Back In The Hospital

[Lurker]

My Persian Rose is back in the hospital somewhere in Geneva Switzerland. I am so scared that she may not leave this time. I just don't know, she won't tell me how bad things are anymore. I have pleaded with her to let me come to her, but she doesn't want me to see her this way. Some friends say I should go find her anyway, but I think that if you love someone, you have to respect their wishes when it comes to something as personal as how they wish to die. I can't concentrate on work, I can't concentrate on anything. How I do love that woman!!

[Madcat]

I'd say go see her. If I was about to die, I would probably tell my friends that I didn't want them to come see me for their sakes, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want to see them, you know? She'll probably be grateful. I might add, as you've said you can't concentrate on anything. Do whatever keeps you sane.

[Gullible Jones]

I'm sorry, Lurker... I feel your pain.

I think Madcat has the right idea though.

God, I've no idea what to say about this... No one should have to die at that age, and no one should have to die separated from those they love. Why does this always happen to the best of us? Why do the best of people have to die like that, in the worst possible way?

At moments like this, I find myself almost hating reality, hating the world. :cry:

Again, I'm really, really sorry.

[SciFi Chick]

Lurker - do you think you should go see her? It doesn't matter what anyone but you thinks...

[Lurker]

God, I've no idea what to say about this... No one should have to die at that age, and no one should have to die separated from those they love. Why does this always happen to the best of us? Why do the best of people have to die like that, in the worst possible way?

At moments like this, I find myself almost hating reality, hating the world. :cry:


Madcat, Gullible Jones... I agree, she has taught me so much just at the time when I needed a teacher and someone to love. It was a long journey across language, cultural, political, and religious barriers to find each other, but through it all she has been gentle, understanding and loving. If there was ever someone the world needed right now, it's someone like her. You are right, we always do seem to lose the best.

She's so young and full of life. She is innocent, silly, full of laughter, but can be so warm and gentle that she could melt a heart of ice. It's not right, it's not how it should be. Sometimes it chills me deep into my soul. I know it's not scientific, or logical, but I believe that her gentle soul must be needed somewhere more than it's needed here. That seems so impossible, but then, don't we find in this forum that common sense is not something to be relied on?? ; )

Don't hate reality... we have made it what it is, only we can change it. Some people in this country are ready to invade Rose's homeland. They don't understand her people and her people don't understand us. Rose reached out across that gulf... it made all the difference in the world. If she dies and we don't step in and continue what she started, who will. If no one does... Don't hate reality, refuse to give in, refuse to hate.

We can't always stop the natural disasters, or diseases that cause so much heartache. If we could just learn to come together, to hold each other all that much closer because of the fragility of life, it would make such a difference. It doesn't seem like that's even possible does it? Maybe it should be... maybe it should be...


Lurker - do you think you should go see her? It doesn't matter what anyone but you thinks...
I think that she has asked me to stay away because my appearance would split her family deeply. They don't even know that I exist. I think she is worried about my safety since technically going to her is a criminal offense without permission of the US government.

I think that, of all the things she has taught me, the most important a respect for culture. Staying here is her wish and, in her eyes, it is how life is to be lived. I think if she was well, I would go to her and look deep into her eyes and tell her that if it was still her choice to walk away that I would not stop her. I think that if her friends and family were trying to get her to change her mind, I would go to her. I think if I love someone, anyone, I should respect their beliefs on how one dies with dignity.

Thanks SciFi Chick...

[Gullible Jones]

I can't believe flying to Switzerland without government permission is a criminal offense... If it is, that's bloody ridiculous. Afghanistan I could see, but freaking Switzerland?! :o

Anyway, if you don't want to visit her, that's your prerogative... I have trouble seeing how anyone would not want the person they love to see them, no matter what state they were in. But I can't get into someone else's head.

(BTW, is there any chance of successful removal of the tumor via surgery? Or is it too deep?)

[Lurker]

I can't believe flying to Switzerland without government permission is a criminal offense... If it is, that's bloody ridiculous. Afghanistan I could see, but freaking Switzerland?! :o

Anyway, if you don't want to visit her, that's your prerogative... I have trouble seeing how anyone would not want the person they love to see them, no matter what state they were in. But I can't get into someone else's head.

(BTW, is there any chance of successful removal of the tumor via surgery? Or is it too deep?)

Not flying to Switzerland. Meeting with a Persian national. It becomes especially important in my case because I am being investigated for committing espionage with said Persian national.

Yeah... I told her, "American men never ask directions." It's one of the most closely guarded secrets in America. Think of the damage this could cause if we decide to invade my lover's country. :o

[Gullible Jones]

Meeting with an Iranian national without government permission is now a crime? :o

You know, I am starting to have some serious beef with the US government... :roll: Measures like that won't help anyone.

[Musashi]

Meeting with an Iranian national without government permission is now a crime? :o

You know, I am starting to have some serious beef with the US government... :roll: Measures like that won't help anyone.

This is not a case of a random person meeting with another random person. GJ, if you wanted to go meet with her, there would probably be no problem. Lurker is being investigated for something involving espionage concerning this particular person. He may have been given terms that include something like, "You are not to meet this person or speak to them." Or maybe his lawyer or advocate told him that because of what is going on, it would look suspicious if he left the country to meet her and that he may face criminal charges if he returned.

In other words, I wouldn't use Lurker's case to judge, there is more going on here than you are taking into account. Lurker has talked about it some, and it does sound like he is getting a raw deal, but there is backstory to this event and it is not inherently illegal to fly to switzerland and/or meet with Iranian citizens.

[Maha Vailo]

If you can't meet her, Lurker, can you send a card or a letter to show that you haven't forgotten her?

- Maha (and when I first read the title of this post, I thought you had a sick kitty :) ) Vailo

[ToSeek]

Meeting with an Iranian national without government permission is now a crime? :o


I believe from previous posts that Lurker has a security clearance. When you have such a clearance, fraternizing with people of certain nationalities is forbidden without prior permission. (And that's just for a secret clearance - for top secret you're not allowed to make friends with any foreigners.)

[Gullible Jones]

Wait a minute... It's not allowed if you have a security clearence? WTH is that about? :-? Lurker doesn't do any serious government work AFAIK... (Well, his profile says he's a computer systems engineer.)

[SciFi Chick]

Meeting with an Iranian national without government permission is now a crime? :o


I believe from previous posts that Lurker has a security clearance. When you have such a clearance, fraternizing with people of certain nationalities is forbidden without prior permission. (And that's just for a secret clearance - for top secret you're not allowed to make friends with any foreigners.)

Are you serious about the top secret clearance thing?

[ToSeek]

Meeting with an Iranian national without government permission is now a crime? :o


I believe from previous posts that Lurker has a security clearance. When you have such a clearance, fraternizing with people of certain nationalities is forbidden without prior permission. (And that's just for a secret clearance - for top secret you're not allowed to make friends with any foreigners.)

Are you serious about the top secret clearance thing?

Absolutely. One of my coworkers got turned down for a top secret clearance at an early stage because one of her sisters has dual citizenship with Ireland.

[Lurker]

Meeting with an Iranian national without government permission is now a crime? :o


I believe from previous posts that Lurker has a security clearance. When you have such a clearance, fraternizing with people of certain nationalities is forbidden without prior permission. (And that's just for a secret clearance - for top secret you're not allowed to make friends with any foreigners.)

Are you serious about the top secret clearance thing?
It's pretty limited when you have top secret clearance because you are considered to be guarding the crown jewels.

Example: I had to pass through 5 palm readers to get to the computer room floor that housed the super computer I worked on. Now... in this room, there were about 75 cages that housed banks of 72 gigabyte disk drives. Each cage had a different key to unlock it and you had to have an authorized person unlock it for you and watch you all the time the cage was open. I don't know how worried they would be if Rose was Swedish or German, but right now the Iranian government and the American governmnet aren't very good at making friends and sharing the sandbox together. So this is about as bad as fallin in love with a Russian at the height of the cold war; a card carrying communist Russian since Rose is Muslim.

Granted I am guilty of a security infraction for not reporting my contact with Rose, but international politics was never a topic of interest. I never even told here where I was or what I did for a living until AFTER I had to leave Los Alamos. I didn't want her money or her power, and she didn't want me for my position at Los Alamos, we were interested in other things.



Edited to Add:

Yeah, I was doing classified work on a the 30 TerraOp supercomputer they were installing. Obviously I am no longer doing classified work which is just fine with me. In fact, I am stretching the edge of the envelop right now by being an antiwar activist. I just can't allow my country to consider invading the homeland of the woman I love.

Just can't keep some people outa trouble.... :-k

[Jpax2003]

I'm saddened to hear of your predicament. But I'm a little confused, in another thread you mentioned that you had mental illness. Do they give top level security clearances at Los Alamos to people with mental illnesses, or is that why you left? As unfair as it may seem, I can see a certain wisdom in restricting communications between US personnel at nuclear weapons labs and nationals from hostile countries with nuclear weapons ambitions.

Then again, a high schooler has enough information to design a basic nuclear bomb. The hard part is acquiring the nuclear material. You can't send uranium via email. Maybe they could let you go to Switzerland as long as they confirm your luggage doesn't contain kilograms of weapons-grade fissiles.

Assuming this is all true, I would expect them to monitor these fora... :o

[SciFi Chick]

I'm saddened to hear of your predicament. But I'm a little confused, in another thread you mentioned that you had mental illness. Do they give top level security clearances at Los Alamos to people with mental illnesses, or is that why you left? As unfair as it may seem, I can see a certain wisdom in restricting communications between US personnel at nuclear weapons labs and nationals from hostile countries with nuclear weapons ambitions.

Then again, a high schooler has enough information to design a basic nuclear bomb. The hard part is acquiring the nuclear material. You can't send uranium via email. Maybe they could let you go to Switzerland as long as they confirm your luggage doesn't contain kilograms of weapons-grade fissiles.

Assuming this is all true, I would expect them to monitor these fora... :o

:roll:

[SciFi Chick]

Meeting with an Iranian national without government permission is now a crime? :o


I believe from previous posts that Lurker has a security clearance. When you have such a clearance, fraternizing with people of certain nationalities is forbidden without prior permission. (And that's just for a secret clearance - for top secret you're not allowed to make friends with any foreigners.)

Are you serious about the top secret clearance thing?

Absolutely. One of my coworkers got turned down for a top secret clearance at an early stage because one of her sisters has dual citizenship with Ireland.

Wow. Well, I'm friends with a German, a Brit and an Aussie, so I guess I'm out. Oh well.

[Spacewriter]

My BIL has clearance and they can interview us family members when it's up for renewal. We've always know that.

Our next door neighbor had TS clearance and one year they DID come and interview us about his comings and goings, etc. We also had warning of that interview and so weren't surprised when two polite gentlemen with badges showed up at our door one evening.

[Lurker]

I'm saddened to hear of your predicament. But I'm a little confused, in another thread you mentioned that you had mental illness. Do they give top level security clearances at Los Alamos to people with mental illnesses, or is that why you left? As unfair as it may seem, I can see a certain wisdom in restricting communications between US personnel at nuclear weapons labs and nationals from hostile countries with nuclear weapons ambitions.

Well here is the wonderful part. I was not diagnosed as having a mental illness until several years after I acquired my top secret clearance. So as an undiagnosed individual suffering from mental illness I am not a security risk. It's only after I am diagnosed and successfully treated and the voices in my head go away that it becomes an issue. However, I was a contractor working for my current employer at the time. For reasons I am not completely sure I understand, that meant that I did not have to report the diagnosis of my condition to the government. But yes, you can be sure that I will never again hold any type of security clearance.

Perhaps there is some logic behind restricting communications between US personel at nuclear weapons labs and nationals from hostile countries with nuclear weapons ambitions, but from my point of view she and I did nothing but love each other. I am angry and incensed that my country would question my loyalty and investigate me for espionage and treason. I think that there is something fundamentally flawed in a world that makes hate so easy and love so hard. That's just my personal opinion and I am not inclined to debate it on its logical merit



Assuming this is all true, I would expect them to monitor these fora... :o
If they are still interested I am sure that they would be monitoring all forums that I post in as well as my IM conversations and telephone conversations with Rose. I make little secret of who I am and if they are interested I am sure they know my address, the make of car that I drive, where I work, and that I have a passport ready in case Rose tells me to come to her.



hey fellas I will be leaving work in about an hour, stopping at Target and then home for the night... don't get lost again ... you know how Rose worries about you guys.... 8)

[Lurker]

Wow. Well, I'm friends with a German, a Brit and an Aussie, so I guess I'm out. Oh well.
The German and Brit are ok, but an Aussie?? What were you thinking?? #-o


Ducks veggies thrown from down under... :P

[Jpax2003]

Look on the positive side, if the US does invade, conquer, and occupy Iran then their nuclear ambitions may be thwarted and you may be allowed to see your friend. Not the best idea, I'll admit, but it's a silver lining. :-?

[Lurker]

Look on the positive side, if the US does invade, conquer, and occupy Iran then their nuclear ambitions may be thwarted and you may be allowed to see your friend. Not the best idea, I'll admit, but it's a silver lining. :-?
If my country invades her country and starts killing her friends and relatives, I seriously doubt that it will improve things for us. Do NOT tell me that they would not have anything to worry about unless they raise arms against US troops, I have seen the pictures from Iraq.

[Jpax2003]

Look on the positive side, if the US does invade, conquer, and occupy Iran then their nuclear ambitions may be thwarted and you may be allowed to see your friend. Not the best idea, I'll admit, but it's a silver lining. :-?
If my country invades her country and starts killing her friends and relatives, I seriously doubt that it will improve things for us. Do NOT tell me that they would not have anything to worry about unless they raise arms against US troops, I have seen the pictures from Iraq.You have nothing to worry about from me since I did NOT and will NOT say anothing like that.

But seriously, if she means that much to you then why not ditch the US and go live overseas. Sure it might not be easy, but if this is true love then that might seem more important. What's the point of living if you can't live the way you want? Give the government the finger and get out of their jurisdiction. Or, if she is not important enough to escape your restrictions then seek help in moderating your emotional attachment through psychiatry or psychology. The key is to do something real instead of just pining for her on an electronic bulletin board.

Besides, how much of a security risk can you be? If properly compartmentalized you should not know enough about any particular project be a threat. Furthermore, if computers seem to be following Moore's Law chances are your information is already out of date or soon will be. I would expect that the government would be more concerned with those who enter secret data into the computer system more than the persons who built the computer system. That is unless the government had a computer tech enter the current versions of the hydrocodes into the application software instead of using nuclear scientists for that particular need for data entry, which would seem incredibly stupid to me.

[Doodler]

I can believe Lurker goes through some hardcore hoops over his TS clearance. A story once told to me by an architect I worked with about his sister is pretty indicative. None of her family knows what part of the government she works for. Beyond saying she goes to work, she's not allowed to say anything. At a cookout a few years back, she met another friend of the architect who was retired CIA. A few days later, he was contacted about the content of their conversation. She actually had to report the fact that she met someone formerly in intelligence to her superiors for review.

I don't believe having friends overseas is a problem, but relatives with foreign citizenship is an open door for potential compromise. Heck, were it to ever come to it, its possible no member of my own family could get TS clearance because of my aunt's criminal record. She embezzled money from the Department of Agriculture to support her drug habit.

As far as Lurker's current dilemma, I'm perfectly willing to believe that even a postcard would be considered a compromise of his clearance. If he really wants to see her, he's got some hard choices to make. I don't envy his position.

JPax, its entirely possible that what Lurker knows about that system's architecture could still very well be TS/SCI. Computers may follow Moore's Law, but government agencies do not. A friend of mine from high school worked as a contractor doing network administration and maintenance on the US House of Representatives' computer network. More than once, he had to deal with upgrading a system that was so obsolete, there was no way to directly transfer data from the old system to the new one. More than a few archaic machines had to be kept running in order to support programs still in use and too expensive to upgrade because enforced obsolescence outpaced the budget allowance for incremental system upgrades.

There may be exceptions in the DoE, but I wouldn't count on them.

Edit: Oops, wrong alphabet soup agency. :)

[Cylinder]

Do NOT tell me that they would not have anything to worry about unless they raise arms against US troops, I have seen the pictures from Iraq.

:roll:

[Gullible Jones]

That's Iraq, not Iran.

And if you're not even doing work for them any more, I don't see why they could do anything about it...

(Then again, I've heard some weird stuff about stripping people of their citizenship... Who knows what the hell they might do. Our government probably stopped caring for the legality of what it does some time ago... :roll: )

[The Bad Astronomer]

Have a care here, folks. Let's keep this thread supportive, and not political. Pragmatic politics is acceptable (meaning, dealing with the issue at hand) but attacking someone else's will get you banned.

[Doodler]

That's Iraq, not Iran.

And if you're not even doing work for them any more, I don't see why they could do anything about it...

(Then again, I've heard some weird stuff about stripping people of their citizenship... Who knows what the hell they might do. Our government probably stopped caring for the legality of what it does some time ago... :roll: )

GJ, that's the other edge of the security clearance sword. Regardless of whether he works actively for an agency or not, the fact remains that information in his head is probably still under lock and key, and so, in some respects, is he.

Seriously, its not as easy as you think to declassify someone. That's the crux of Lurker's bind. I can fully sympathize with his desire to see this woman again, but at the same time, his knowledge, a confidence he took upon himself voluntarily, comes with some baggage that's not so easy to dispose of.

You can call it unfair, because the fact of the matter is it is completely unfair. It is a burden that a person who seeks security clearance undertakes willingly. Its a leveraged trust. You get access to the government's secrets, the government gets a hand in your life to keep those secrets safe, regardless of how ridiculous the circumstances might seem.

Lurker's going to find its a LOT harder to be rid of the baggage of his clearance than it was picking up that baggage in the first place.

[Jpax2003]

Lurker's going to find its a LOT harder to be rid of the baggage of his clearance than it was picking up that baggage in the first place.Hey, maybe the Russians can help. They have loads of nukes so the US government may not be as concerned if they compromise him, as opposed to a nuclear aspiring country like Iran. Although Russia might be helping the Iranians with their reactors and may ask for his help... but then he would be on the inside and could be a double or triple agent! The Russians may even tacitly approve and turn their heads since they probably don't want muslim fundamentalists with nukes. This might allow him to help dismantle the Iranian nuclear program from the inside without starting a war, thus preventing all the death and destruction he fears.

I'm not suggesting anyone do anything illegal, but it can't hurt to ponder the possibilities. Maybe someone could float it past the government... they might go for it. 8-[

[Doodler]

I think you fail to grasp the consequences of compromising your security clearance to foreign nationals, particularly in the current atmosphere and the country in question and the agency to which he was connected.

There's a word for such an action, its called treason. It tends to come complete with living arrangements in a secure facility for an extended chunk of your natural lifespan and a small, barely marked, grave in a place where your family can't visit in the event you don't outlive your sentence. In rare cases, which I don't think Lurker's case covers, the end result is a pair of injections designed to render you unconscious and stop your lungs from functioning. This isn't a game he's playing, its extremely serious.

Like I said, its not fair, it was never intended to be fair, but that's part of the faustian bargain you make when you start learning the government's secrets.

[Jpax2003]

I think you fail to grasp the consequences of compromising your security clearance to foreign nationals, particularly in the current atmosphere and the country in question and the agency to which he was connected.Who me? I said that earlier.As unfair as it may seem, I can see a certain wisdom in restricting communications between US personnel at nuclear weapons labs and nationals from hostile countries with nuclear weapons ambitions.This isn't a game he's playing, its extremely serious.That's why I included the disclaimer at the end of my last post. I am not trying to incite anyone to illegal action.Like I said, its not fair, it was never intended to be fair, but that's part of the faustian bargain you make when you start learning the government's secrets.That's why I've decided not to apply for or accept any security clearance. What I learn I will learn through open channels.

[Doodler]

I think you fail to grasp the consequences of compromising your security clearance to foreign nationals, particularly in the current atmosphere and the country in question and the agency to which he was connected.Who me? I said that earlier.As unfair as it may seem, I can see a certain wisdom in restricting communications between US personnel at nuclear weapons labs and nationals from hostile countries with nuclear weapons ambitions.This isn't a game he's playing, its extremely serious.That's why I included the disclaimer at the end of my last post. I am not trying to incite anyone to illegal action.Like I said, its not fair, it was never intended to be fair, but that's part of the faustian bargain you make when you start learning the government's secrets.That's why I've decided not to apply for or accept any security clearance. What I learn I will learn through open channels.

It seems I've misunderstood you, JPax. My apologies.

[Gullible Jones]

Doodler: giving away something important to a known enemy, something that could get people killed, is treason.

Meeting a friend who has no affiliation with any enemy organization is not treason.

You can't say something is treason unless you can prove it is treason.

And I know I risk my behind saying this, it being rather politically loaded... But as far as I am concerned, the games that countries have taken to playing are ridiculous, stupid, and incredibly dangerous. We make war over the stupidest, most petty things, and value our pathetic little secrets over human life. Nations don't act as though they're lead by sensible adults; they whine and cry and argue and skirmish as though lead by naive, greedy children.

In matters of politics and "national security", we're not using our heads and we're not using our hearts. If you think that this thoughtlessness won't bite back at us at some point, you should check your thoughts, because greed and corruption and stupidity always bite back - if not at those responsible, than at those who are innocent. What our nations do now will come back to haunt us, but it won't discriminate between the innocent and the guilty.

As ye shall sow, so shall ye reap.

[Normandy6644]

Do not hijack this thread and turn it into something politcal. That has nothing to do with the intent of this thread, at least not as directly as it is being discussed now.

[W.F. Tomba]

In a way, doesn't all this discussion of law, politics, secrecy, security, etc. rather miss the point?

I can't speak for Lurker. I don't even know him. Heck, I don't know any of you; I'm new around here. But I did notice that he didn't mention any of this stuff about security clearances and war and peace and whatnot in the post that started this thread.

We could have world peace tomorrow, and universal enlightenment, and no more secrets, and yet certain implacable facts would not be altered.

(I can't find the footing to say more than that. I don't really know how to handle discussions like this. I just become acutely aware of the strangerhood that I (we?) inhabit here on the Web, and feel that I am just not qualified to speak.)

How do you deal with a relentless reality?

[SciFi Chick]

To officially get this back on track - Lurker, I am so sorry that Rose is back in the hospital.

I am thrilled that you are in touch with her and know what's going on.

I do hope you will be apprised of the outcome.

You have my deepest condolences as I'm convinced you are getting way more than your fair share of pain in this life.

[Jpax2003]

Doodler: giving away something important to a known enemy, something that could get people killed, is treason.

Meeting a friend who has no affiliation with any enemy organization is not treason.

You can't say something is treason unless you can prove it is treason.To be fair, you don't need to prove treason to be convicted and sentenced for it. It'd be nice if you were correct, Gullible Jones, but most of us have at least heard stories where someone was railroaded. But you are probably right and he would never be accused of Treason, although they would probably find other federal crimes to charge him with. Are we sure she has no affiliation with an enemy organization?

[SciFi Chick]

Doodler: giving away something important to a known enemy, something that could get people killed, is treason.

Meeting a friend who has no affiliation with any enemy organization is not treason.

You can't say something is treason unless you can prove it is treason.To be fair, you don't need to prove treason to be convicted and sentenced for it. It'd be nice if you were correct, Gullible Jones, but most of us have at least heard stories where someone was railroaded. But you are probably right and he would never be accused of Treason, although they would probably find other federal crimes to charge him with. Are we sure she has no affiliation with an enemy organization?

Seriously, after the BA's warning, could you start another thread on this particular topic and leave this one as nice thoughts for Lurker and what he's going through?

Thanks. :D

[Jpax2003]

Doodler: giving away something important to a known enemy, something that could get people killed, is treason.

Meeting a friend who has no affiliation with any enemy organization is not treason.

You can't say something is treason unless you can prove it is treason.To be fair, you don't need to prove treason to be convicted and sentenced for it. It'd be nice if you were correct, Gullible Jones, but most of us have at least heard stories where someone was railroaded. But you are probably right and he would never be accused of Treason, although they would probably find other federal crimes to charge him with. Are we sure she has no affiliation with an enemy organization?

Seriously, after the BA's warning, could you start another thread on this particular topic and leave this one as nice thoughts for Lurker and what he's going through?

Thanks. :D

Have a care here, folks. Let's keep this thread supportive, and not political. Pragmatic politics is acceptable (meaning, dealing with the issue at hand) but attacking someone else's will get you banned.

Seriously, after the BA's warning to what others were writing I am still not abrogating his admonition. My posts are pragmatic without partisan politics and are dealing with the issue at hand. I have not attacked anyone else's politics. My posts have been supportive and are discussions of how Lurker may find relief of this his personal issue. I will abate if the BA or Lurker ask. Thank you for your concern.

[SciFi Chick]

I see. Well, if you're actually reading what Lurker wrote, then you will know that he wishes to acquiesce to his love's desire NOT to see him in this time, so there's really no need for you to continue discussing whether he can visit her. Of course, I don't expect anything I say will stop you from the course you've set, but I feel the need to say it anyway.

[Jpax2003]

I see. Well, if you're actually reading what Lurker wrote, then you will know that he wishes to acquiesce to his love's desire NOT to see him in this time, so there's really no need for you to continue discussing whether he can visit her. Of course, I don't expect anything I say will stop you from the course you've set, but I feel the need to say it anyway.see above post (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=436001&#436001).
Thank you for your concern.

[Lurker]

To officially get this back on track - Lurker, I am so sorry that Rose is back in the hospital.

I am thrilled that you are in touch with her and know what's going on.

I do hope you will be apprised of the outcome.

You have my deepest condolences as I'm convinced you are getting way more than your fair share of pain in this life.
au contraire madame....
(on the contrary my lady)

What you see as pain, are in fact mixed blessings. Mixed blessings because they do contain a significant amount of pain, but they also mold and shape one's perceptions in ways that leave them all the sharper for the experience.

I stand between two worlds, because of the depression that I am designed to experience. But having been treated now, I can see farther and understand more than anyone who has not experienced both sides. The red of a rose or the sweet sound of a brook mean, I think, more to me than anyone who has never seen both sides of the great divide. I do not want to go back, and my heart breaks for those who still suffer, but I savor each moment now because I know their fleeting nature, because I understand their fragility.

I know now that Rose and I have shared and savored deep, pure love. I would wish our circumstances were different, but our feelings are none the less intense because of our distance. Someone asked me recently if I were to lose Rose, and if they could take away the pain of loss by erasing all memory of Rose, would I want the cure. I did not hesitate, I would NEVER want to lose my memories of the love we share. I have no way to know how many people share love as deep as she and I share, but I see a lot of unhappy people in the world. Rose and I are so happy when we talk... our love is very strong. I have a feeling that many don't know what we share. I would only ask of fate that I be allowed to take her illness. I know all the arguments against the idea, but I now know that the love I feel for Rose makes her life more important to me than my own.

I may have been given more than my fair share of pain, but I have also been given great gifts. Perhaps great gifts come at great price. I would rather accept the gifts at great price than not be offered these gifts at all.

[SciFi Chick]

I see. Well, if you're actually reading what Lurker wrote, then you will know that he wishes to acquiesce to his love's desire NOT to see him in this time, so there's really no need for you to continue discussing whether he can visit her. Of course, I don't expect anything I say will stop you from the course you've set, but I feel the need to say it anyway.see above post (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=436001&#436001).
Thank you for your concern.

:roll:

[SciFi Chick]

To officially get this back on track - Lurker, I am so sorry that Rose is back in the hospital.

I am thrilled that you are in touch with her and know what's going on.

I do hope you will be apprised of the outcome.

You have my deepest condolences as I'm convinced you are getting way more than your fair share of pain in this life.
au contraire madame....

What you see as pain, are in fact mixed blessings. Mixed blessings because they do contain a significant amount of pain, but they also mold and shape one's perceptions in ways that leave them all the sharper for the experience.

I stand between two worlds, because of the depression that I am designed to experience. But having been treated now, I can see farther and understand more than anyone who has not experienced both sides. The red of a rose or the sweet sound of a brook mean, I think, more to me than anyone who has never seen both sides of the great divide. I do not want to go back, and my heart breaks for those who still suffer, but I savor each moment now because I know their fleeting nature, because I understand their fragility.

I know now that Rose and I have shared and savored deep, pure love. I would wish our circumstances were different, but our feelings are none the less intense because of our distance. Someone asked me recently if I were to lose Rose, and if they could take away the pain of loss by erasing all memory of Rose, would I want the cure. I did not hesitate, I would NEVER want to lose my memories of the love we share. I have no way to know how many people share love as deep as she and I share, but I see a lot of unhappy people in the world. Rose and I are so happy when we talk... our love is very strong. I have a feeling that many don't know what we share. I would only ask of fate that I be allowed to take her illness. I know all the arguments against the idea, but I now know that the love I feel for Rose makes her life more important to me than my own.

I may have been given more than my fair share of pain, but I have also been given great gifts. Perhaps great gifts come at great price. I would rather accept the gifts at great price price than not be offered these gifts at all.

Though my experience with depression is different from yours in cause and cure, I have some idea of where I'm coming from.

As to the rest of your post, you truly inspire me Lurker. You also give me hope. Forgive me for misunderstanding earlier.

[Lurker]

Though my experience with depression is different from yours in cause and cure, I have some idea of where I'm coming from.

As to the rest of your post, you truly inspire me Lurker. You also give me hope. Forgive me for misunderstanding earlier.
Don't be inspired, and no apologies.. Next thing you know someone is gunna start looking in the stuff I write for wisdom or something!! #-o
Then I'll get nasty emails when they realize there isn't any... :wink:

Life isn't fair, life is art. It is unforgiving beauty at it's starkest and that can be hard to accept. We are all connected if we would only slow down long enough to figure that out. I genuinely believe that the love we make lasts forever. If that's true, then the world is a better place and my life is richer for Rose's passing this way.

If you see something in me to give you hope, send a message of hope and thanks to < >, because she has made me a better man than I am... because her love for me gives me the strength to yield... because without what she has taught me and shared with me I would not understand.


damn... metaphysics in an astronomy forum... Ima get myself thrown outa here!! 8)

(Just in case there is any doubt... yup, that's Rose's email address... :wink: )



Edited to Delete email address

sigh... yeah, it's what keeps us apart, too bad but I know you are probably right. :(

[kg034]

au contraire madame....
[the rest omitted for brevity]


Ah, hope & love....two of the essences of life.....what a refreshing post....Lurker, buddy, (even though we've never met), hang in there!!!
I hope that you feel everyday like you did when you wrote that post.....And if you forget, you can always come back here and remind yourself!
Hang in there!

[Spacewriter]

Lurker,

I've read this entire series of postings with great interest and dismay and also understanding of what you must be going through (an admittedly incomplete understanding). I hope things work out for her and for you. I hope that she does pull through her current crisis.

That being said, I think it's probably not a good idea to post her email address here so publicly. While most of us are good, honest people here, there are always those who can read these things and take it upon themselves to do... less than mature things...

Just concerned that posting her email could have some not-so-great outcomes...

[Jpax2003]

Lurker,
I don't know how much this suggestion might help, but have you considered contacting a Representative or Senator to be your champion? CA-15th District Representative Mike Honda (http://www.honda.house.gov/biography.asp) spent his early childhood in a WWII internment camp and is a strong advocate for the cause of social justice, cultural tolerance, and civil rights. CA. Senator Barbara Boxer (http://boxer.senate.gov/about/comm.cfm) is Democratic Chief Deputy Whip and is on the Committee on Foreign Relations. CA. Senator Dianne Feinstein is on the Judiciary Committee including its Terrorism, Technology and Homeland Security Subcommittee and its Immigration, Border Security and Citizenship Subcommittee; and, she is also on the Select Committee on Intelligence. Feinstein also co-sponsored the HR 3525 -- Enhanced Border Security and Visa Entry Reform Act of 2002 (http://www.las-inc.com/enhanced_border_security/Enhanced_Border_Security-Full.pdf) [PDF] which might be useful.SEC. 306. RESTRICTION ON ISSUANCE OF VISAS TO NONIMMIGRANTS FROM COUNTRIES THAT ARE STATE SPONSORS OF INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM.
(a) IN GENERAL.—No nonimmigrant visa under section 101(a)(15) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(15)) shall be issued to any alien from a country that is a state sponsor of international terrorism unless the Secretary of State determines, in consultation with the Attorney General and the heads of other appropriate United States agencies, that such alien does not pose a threat to the safety or national security of the United States. In making a determination under this subsection, the Secretary of State shall apply standards developed by the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Attorney General and the heads of other appropriate United States agencies, that are applicable to the nationals of such states.

[emphasis mine]So, if they vet Rose and determine that she is not a threat, then perhaps they can allow you to be with her. I know that she may not want you to try to be with her right now, but is that temporary or permanent? Is she saying that to be brave because of her condition or is some other reason? Maybe if you had a viable solution to your predicament with the government she might be interested in returning to you. I'm just guessing, since I don't know the particulars of your relationship. I hope this helps.

[publiusr]

"Little" people get run over in these big conflicts and such.

I really hate this world.

[Gullible Jones]

Amen.

[Lurker]

Jpax2003,

I appreciate the help, but US security is only one side of the issue. Rose is a graduate student in Physics. Her father is, apparently , someone of importance in Iran. She has many of the same problems in regards to security that I have. So even if house Montague may agree, it is unlikely that lady Capulet will find such allowances made for her.



Edited to add:

The term is "star crossed"

[publiusr]

It probably has to do with this mess:


http://www.astronautix.com/country/iran.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/shaabslv.htm

This launch vehicle can put 3/5ths as much as the new Angara-based Korean rocket: http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/kslvi.htm

What really spooks folks is this line:

"Photographs had circulated since 1998 of a Shahab-3 outfitted as the 'Iris' satellite launcher, complete with an improbably large payload fairing. :o This is unlikely unless the Iranians planned a leap to Lox/LH2 upper stage engine technology for the upper stage. This may not have been as improbable as it may sound. The Chinese achieved a similar feat with their CZ-3 upper stage in 1984, becoming the third nation to fly this technology."