I did it Democracy works

[Raptor1967]

I managed to get over 5000 signatures requesting photo radar units to be installed in our local school zone and would you believe it, it is actually going to happen. They are planning on installing not one but two photo radar units in the playground zone by the elementary school. one at each end of the zone.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Trebuchet]

Congratulations on your success. However....

I have to say I find the concept of photo radar somewhat disturbing, in a "Big Brother is Watching You" sort of way.

I've also found it amusing that when we visit Canada the radio stations include locations of photo radar with their traffic reports.

[Captain Kidd]

What I find really amusing is the often touted argument that it might not be the owner who is driving the car.

Yet I don't see the same people arguing against officer issued parking tickets (i.e. by a "real person") where the cop wouldn't know if the car they're ticketing is being driven by the owner...

[teddyv]

As much as I disliked photo-radar, in a way it was easy to avoid (at least in BC). All you had to watch for (especially on the highway) was a Chevy Astro van parked along the side. Once safely past, back up to whatever.

The only speeding ticket I ever received, I was caught by an airplane over the Trans Canada Hwy. Not for lack of trying though.

[publiusr]

And now all folks have to do is get home-made 'Lost Tag' signs taped over the plates, or to put that reflective spray to blind the camera.

[Raptor1967]

I have issues with phota radar as well. BUT in a playground zone i don't care what your excuse, you should slow down. I drop my kids off everyday and witness numerous people yakkin on thir cell phones speeding along, oblivious to the school buses and kids. It makes me crazy I can't even imagine what I would do if someone actually hit a kid in that situation. The fine here for speeding in a playground zone is $600.00 and yet still people do it. I funny thing is when a cop is there monitoring traffic ammazingly everyone is going slow, as soon as he is gone away they go again. I don't expect to see many tickets generated but i do expect to see people moving slow all the tme instead of just when a cop is there.

[Fram]

And now all folks have to do is get home-made 'Lost Tag' signs taped over the plates, or to put that reflective spray to blind the camera.
Which is both illegal, at least in Belgium.

[Gullible Jones]

Then there are radar jammers... Which, for some stupid reason, are completely legal in most states, despite the obvious fact that people use them only for one thing. :roll:

[The Supreme Canuck]

Not legal here. Can't even own one if you aren't using it.

[Sammy]

I think jammers are illegal everywhere. Nothing to do with traffic laws, but they ruin afoul of FCC regs re malicious interference.

Radar receivers are legal in some states, illegal in others.

The "Big Brother" aspect does not bother me in any situation. I don't see radar-triggered photo devices as any different than a cop with a speed gun or a calibrated eyeball. In either case, if you're obeying the law, you got no problem.

[Raptor1967]

I appears they will be putting up a warning sign first to inform people of the future plans. That includes a sign that clocks them and displays how fast they are going on a big llit up sign..

It is going to be interesting to see what happens.

[Obviousman]

Interesting.

If we are talking about the same thing, we call them 'speed cameras' in Australia.

There are prominent signs saying where they are. "SPEED CAMERA AHEAD - SPEED 90 KMH" etc, followed by another prominent warning.

There have been debates about their accuracy in some areas. A famous one said a bus was doing something like 90 kmh when it was demonstrated that the bus could only reach a top speed of about 65 kmh in the area indicated.

One state had to refund about $1,000,000 worth of fines because the cameras were innaccurate.

Generally they do a good job, especially in areas like schools. The police line is that they place them in speed or accident "black spots". They are more often shown to be located in areas where they raise revenue for the state and nowhere near 'black spots'. Some can raise an enormous amount of revenue....

[captain swoop]

We have them all over the place in the UK. there are some whiners who complain they are just a way of raising money.

I say if you were speeding and got a ticket then you deserve it. If you were obaying the law you wouldn't be contributing to the money raising. Look on it as a tax on speed. You get 3 points on you license as well though. 12 and your out.

[Fram]

We have them all over the place in the UK. there are some whiners who complain they are just a way of raising money.

I say if you were speeding and got a ticket then you deserve it. If you were obaying the law you wouldn't be contributing to the money raising. Look on it as a tax on speed. You get 3 points on you license as well though. 12 and your out.

True, as long as the laws are reasonable. Speed limits (in Belgium) are sometimes very arbitrary and confusing, and some seem to be implemented solely to be able to fine people.
It's a sad thing, because speed limits are extremely important and can save many lives, but if people see them as arbitrary and nothing more than a nuisance in some cases, they tend to react that way in all cases, making them useless.

[captain swoop]

In the UK you get 30 MPH in built up areas, 60 MPH on single carriageway and 70MPH on dual carriageways and Motorways.
Sometimes there are local restrictions in place, usualy 20MPH outside schools and some urban dual carriageways have a 50 limit.

In practice on a Motorway you can do 80. Cameras have a 10% + 3MPH leeway.

Seems fast enough to me and I do around 800 miles a week when I am working in the field.

[jumbo]

We have them all over the place in the UK. there are some whiners who complain they are just a way of raising money.

I say if you were speeding and got a ticket then you deserve it. If you were obaying the law you wouldn't be contributing to the money raising. Look on it as a tax on speed. You get 3 points on you license as well though. 12 and your out.
For the most part the whiners have no case. I am a whiner about one specific case.
Outside my work place is a road whose speed limit changes from 40 to 30 and back again. The 30 mph section is very badly sign posted and i only know about it because i was warned in my interview at the company to be careful as i left not to travel at 40 on the whole stretch. This 30mph section has never, in the years i have worked here, had an accident. Another neaby road has regular accidents including one on monday requiring many ambulances and the fire brigade. The accident prone area has never even had a speed camera proposed by the council or police. The badly signposted but safe 30mph zone regularly has police in (previously an unmarked) a van with radar speed guns. When the speed detection equipment is set up in this manner its easy to see where some of the complains arise.

[kucharek]

Some city here had pretty good results with putting up fake policemen (life-size photos, like the one's where you can get a photo of you with some vip). Of course, from time to time the policeman is real :D

[Obviousman]

They used to have the "cardboard policemen" here, too. They were very effective. You saw one and slowed down. You couldn't tell if they were real people or not.

Problem was, they didn't raise any revenue. So they got rid of them.

[Captain Kidd]

One thing they do around here is that on heavy traffic periods (i.e. holidays), the officers going off duty will park their patrol cars on overpasses or in the median. You're on top of them before it's apparent that it's an empty car.

After the third or fourth one, somebody usually gets a bit overconfident and assumes all the cars are empty. They then get proven wrong.

[dcolanduno]

They used to have the "cardboard policemen" here, too. They were very effective. You saw one and slowed down. You couldn't tell if they were real people or not.

Problem was, they didn't raise any revenue. So they got rid of them.

And THAT is the problem right there. Studies have shown that there are FAR better ways to slow people down. But, what they really want is the money, it's not at all about safety at the end of the day. They USE the argument of safety to make it happen, but it's a thin' excuse when you look at the practices.

[crosscountry]

I am glad that your school will do something about the speeders. That is #1 priority.


My school had a dedicated officer during drop off and pick up hours. You bet no one sped between 6:30 and 8:30 AM nor 2:30 - 4:30PM


Those who did received a ticket double normal. It's only 4 hours a day for an officer, and it always seems the cops have plenty of time to talk on cell phones or eat donuts.

[SeanF]

What I find really amusing is the often touted argument that it might not be the owner who is driving the car.

Yet I don't see the same people arguing against officer issued parking tickets (i.e. by a "real person") where the cop wouldn't know if the car they're ticketing is being driven by the owner...
I had typed a different response to this, but I had to delete it when I realized you weren't saying what I thought you were saying.

The differences are that a parking citation is generally a lot less money than a moving violation (eg, speeding or running a red light), and a parking ticket does not go on your driving record and thus does not affect your car insurance rates, etc., whereas a moving violation does.

The people who disapprove of camera-issued tickets on the grounds stated probably do disapprove of parking tickets for the same reasons, but it's not nearly as big a deal.

[Captain Kidd]

I'll accept that in theory they do, yet fine amounts haven't been brought up from the discussions I've seen. When there's action to attempt to ban/oppose traffic cameras on those grounds, they don't include or even mention parking tickets. That's what I'm mainly driving at.

It's an apparent, even if untrue, acceptance of one over the other when they're both ticketing an unoccupied vehicle.

[crosscountry]

They used to have the "cardboard policemen" here, too. They were very effective. You saw one and slowed down. You couldn't tell if they were real people or not.

Problem was, they didn't raise any revenue. So they got rid of them.

And THAT is the problem right there. Studies have shown that there are FAR better ways to slow people down. But, what they really want is the money, it's not at all about safety at the end of the day. They USE the argument of safety to make it happen, but it's a thin' excuse when you look at the practices.

I have to go with you on this one. People traveling 75 or 80 on the interstate are being much safer than those traveling 55.


Money is the key in most circumstances, some towns get more than 1/2 their income from ticketing speeders on the thru-way.



In a school zone however the difference is obvious. I hope that the radar never gets anyone. I hope that because it would mean no one speeds in the school zone. It makes me wonder if people think at all.

[captain swoop]

I have to go with you on this one. People traveling 75 or 80 on the interstate are being much safer than those traveling 55.


Money is the key in most circumstances, some towns get more than 1/2 their income from ticketing speeders on the thru-way.



In a school zone however the difference is obvious. I hope that the radar never gets anyone. I hope that because it would mean no one speeds in the school zone. It makes me wonder if people think at all.

Sorry? How do people get to choose which laws they want to obay? If you are driving over the limit you get a ticket. If there are places where people are breaking the law all the time then stick a camera there until they stop being stupid and learn to slow down!

[Fram]

I have to go with you on this one. People traveling 75 or 80 on the interstate are being much safer than those traveling 55.


Money is the key in most circumstances, some towns get more than 1/2 their income from ticketing speeders on the thru-way.



In a school zone however the difference is obvious. I hope that the radar never gets anyone. I hope that because it would mean no one speeds in the school zone. It makes me wonder if people think at all.

Sorry? How do people get to choose which laws they want to obay? If you are driving over the limit you get a ticket. If there are places where people are breaking the law all the time then stick a camera there until they stop being stupid and learn to slow down!

Or change the speed limit there, if it serves no purpose at all.

[Maksutov]

Interesting.

If we are talking about the same thing, we call them 'speed cameras' in Australia.

There are prominent signs saying where they are. "SPEED CAMERA AHEAD - SPEED 90 KMH" etc, followed by another prominent warning.

There have been debates about their accuracy in some areas. A famous one said a bus was doing something like 90 kmh when it was demonstrated that the bus could only reach a top speed of about 65 kmh in the area indicated.

One state had to refund about $1,000,000 worth of fines because the cameras were innaccurate.[edit]
Well, as an old metrology guy, that just shows how important an effective and well-run calibration system is. :wink:

[Raptor1967]

You know I believe the biggest problem is that people just don't read or care about the road signs. Most people speeding through playground zones just dont realize they are doing it. I don't think this is an excuse but it just amazes me how many people have tunnel vision when they are driving. It is a scary world out on those roads.

[dvb]

My father told me stories about when he worked as a voluntary provencial police officer. The provencial police have radar detector detectors, and he told me every time they pulled someone over with a radar detector and asked for it, people handed them over with no questions asked. Then they either destroyed them on site, or confinscated them. He told me one time they couldn't figure out where the signal was coming from, and they finally realized that it was a car pulling up from behind them on the highway. #-o

[Maksutov]

[edit]It's only 4 hours a day for an officer, and it always seems the cops have plenty of time to talk on cell phones or eat donuts.
Eating donuts? How unusual!

Hey, cops! (http://www.geocities.com/mahleritewebsite/hey_cops.mp3)

[SeanF]

I'll accept that in theory they do, yet fine amounts haven't been brought up from the discussions I've seen. When there's action to attempt to ban/oppose traffic cameras on those grounds, they don't include or even mention parking tickets. That's what I'm mainly driving at.

It's an apparent, even if untrue, acceptance of one over the other when they're both ticketing an unoccupied vehicle.
I think you're missing my point. There are enough differences between a speeding ticket and a parking ticket to justify complaining about one unfairly targetting the owner but not the other unfairly targetting the owner. They are not equally unfair.

If the camera speeding tickets were $5 and didn't go on your driving record, you would not hear nearly as many complaints as you do.

Well, actually, you would, but it would be the supporters complaining that it won't accomplish anything. :)

[Stregone]

Here's an idea: Don't loan your car to someone you don't trust to not break the law. Or atleast someone who won't screw you over and not own up to it.