22 reasons why Episode III is fantastic

[Glom]

R2 has learned slapstick.
The zero gravity swimming.
The shots of Courasant are great.
Palpatine using Anakin's desire to save Padme to open his mind to the dark side. It was beautifully placed after Yoda fobbed him off by saying that death is a natural part of life. It also validated the trait of him versus other Jedi: he established connections with people.
The disfigurement of Palpatine to give him the original trilogy look.
The scene when Anakin had to chose between Windu and Palpatine was first rate. It was brilliant the way the faults of Windu caused Anakin to react in a way that flash burnt his bridges. Anakin thought Windu was acting in a way contrary to a Jedi, so reacted, and then he had nothing left but the chance to save Padme.
Loads of crazy cool worlds with cool canyons, weird colourful flowers and Lothlorien style trees.
The shots of the hooded Vader storming the Jedi council were coo.
Padme's digs are lush.
The sequence where Sideus orders the Jedi killed.
We know Anakin will fulfil his destiny and kill the Sith.
It took a better take on Anakin's turn to the dark side than Episode II, which painted him as a spoiled public school brat. He had grown up a bit in this movie. It wasn't about the fact that Kenobi wouldn't let him play so he decided to join the Sith so he could do what he wants, it was about the desire to save Padme. The usefulness of the public school brat idea was to strain his relations with the Jedi council.
It showed Anakin's desire to do good and bring about peace to the galaxy. It explored similar themes explored in episodes like 'Space Seed' [TOS], where Kirk and McCoy mused over how Khan's rule had brought about much order, 'Patterns of Force' [TOS], which acknowledged how even the Nazi state was remarkably efficient at repairing a fractured society if you ignore that pesky issue of the worst genocide in human history, and the Dominion of DS9, which the Founders see as a way of bringing order to a chaotic society.
Only the evil of the Sith see things as absolutes. "You're either with us or against us." (There's that contemporary connection)
The storm troopers look a little more Imperial than before.
We see the early variants of Star Destroyers, Tie Fighters and Imperial shuttles. We also see what look like X wing fighters. The rebellion must have knocked them off somewhere.
The connection between the senator who adopted Leia and Kenobi, was good continuity to EpIV. "Years ago you fought with my father in the clone wars."
Ian McDiarmid.
The scene on the landing pad on the lava world between Vader, Kenobi and Padme was cool.
Creating Darth Vader, particularly opposed against the birth of the one who would bring him down.
John Williams.
The lighting on Vader on the lava world sometimes made his eyes look orange like Sideus, although it was just the reflection of the lava. That's good stuff.

[dcolanduno]

The lighting on Vader on the lava world sometimes made his eyes look orange like Sideus, although it was just the reflection of the lava. That's good stuff.

You should listen to the interview we just did with Mr. Bad Astronomer himself... he went on a rant about Star Wars III, specifically the lava!

Although, I would agree that many of these things on the list, are what make this movie 'better' than the previous two.

[SeanF]

Only the evil of the Sith see things as absolutes.

"Only the Sith" is an absolute. Someone should tell Obi-Wan that. :D

[dcolanduno]

Only the Sith" is an absolute. Someone should tell Obi-Wan that.

Now, that... is going on my list!

[Kristophe]

I thought the Force only worked in absolutes. There's the Dark Side, and the Light Side, but not really a twilight side...

[Disinfo Agent]

Which was part of the fun of the movies...

[mopc]

What I hated the most in the prequels (aside obviously from Jar Jar Binks argh!) is that talk of "midichlorians" whatevertheycallit. Wasn't the Force supposed to be something ethereal, the Tao, instead of being attached to chemicals in the blood????

[Kristophe]

Yeah, but I think Lucas wanted something to let the Jedi be able to quantitatively say that Ani was the chosen one. "The Force is strong in this one" doesn't really convey the same absolutism as "The kid has a Force rating of 369,792, which is just shy of Yoda's record Forceosity of 370,194".

[Makgraf]

We know Anakin will fulfil his destiny and kill the Sith.
Right off the bat I don't take the books as canon (neither, I believe, does Mr. Lucas). So I took the prophecy that Anakin would bring balance to the force as also including his massacres of the Jedi. I like ironic prophecy type things like that.

It took a better take on Anakin's turn to the dark side than Episode II, which painted him as a spoiled public school brat. He had grown up a bit in this movie. It wasn't about the fact that Kenobi wouldn't let him play so he decided to join the Sith so he could do what he wants, it was about the desire to save Padme. The usefulness of the public school brat idea was to strain his relations with the Jedi council.
That paragraph confused me before I remembered that you Brits call private schools "public schools".

Only the evil of the Sith see things as absolutes. "You're either with us or against us." (There's that contemporary connection)

I didn't buy this one. I mean right after he says this he's yelling to Anakin, "Palpatine is evil!", which is very clearly an absolute. Then Anakin replies that it's just a point of view, which is clearly not seeing things in absolutes.

[Kristophe]

We know Anakin will fulfil his destiny and kill the Sith.
Right off the bat I don't take the books as canon (neither, I believe, does Mr. Lucas). So I took the prophecy that Anakin would bring balance to the force as also including his massacres of the Jedi. I like ironic prophecy type things like that.

I initially took the prophecy to work out to be that he fathers Luke and Leia, but come A New Hope we're left with two Sith, and two Jedi. A very interesting balance indeed.

[Gillianren]

We know Anakin will fulfil his destiny and kill the Sith.
Right off the bat I don't take the books as canon (neither, I believe, does Mr. Lucas). So I took the prophecy that Anakin would bring balance to the force as also including his massacres of the Jedi. I like ironic prophecy type things like that.

I've been saying for six years that the Jedi didn't really want balance in the Force. after all, didn't they slaughter the Sith? ergo, logically, "balance in the Force" requires that the Sith take control. but hey, no one ever listens to me, or else the casting of a lot of movies would be very different.

I was impressed; there was actually a good line! what was it, "that's the sound of the death of liberty--thunderous applause." good line.

I dug the little Yoda super ball fighting style. I was also madly amused at the contrast between Yoda and the Wookiees.

it was really nice to see Alderaan.

I liked the visual parallels between the OT and this movie--like when Anakin is fighting Dooku (okay, that's officially the stupidest name in the history of Star Wars, and that includes the-Jedi-who-is-a-martial-arts-style) is so obviously choreographed to look like the fight between Vader and Luke in Jedi. soooooo cool.

and, yes, in places the dialogue was just awful. there were places where the entire theatre groaned or sighed or at least shuffled awkwardly. clearly, George Lucas needs, at bare minimum, an editor to say, "hey, George, that's a really dumb line." but oh, well.

James Earl Jones should never be forced to say, "noooooooo!"

[Disinfo Agent]

and, yes, in places the dialogue was just awful. there were places where the entire theatre groaned or sighed or at least shuffled awkwardly. clearly, George Lucas needs, at bare minimum, an editor to say, "hey, George, that's a really dumb line." but oh, well.
Or an actor (http://www.kinoweb.de/film97/StarWars/pix/ford2.jpg). :wink:

[mopc]

Yeah, but I think Lucas wanted something to let the Jedi be able to quantitatively say that Ani was the chosen one. "The Force is strong in this one" doesn't really convey the same absolutism as "The kid has a Force rating of 369,792, which is just shy of Yoda's record Forceosity of 370,194".

Which is why it's ridiculous. It's like if they performed a blood test on kids to figure out who's the next dalai-lama. It's supposed to be immaterial, not biochemical!!!

[Jpax2003]

Spoiler warning, but y'all already know that...



I agree about the dialogue about absolutes. The Jedi were out of line in their actions and even worse than being gullible, they didn't think things through. I mean, hello! They finally learn Palpatine is the Sith Lord who somehow lived through his kidnapping and detention by a dark Jedi (whether or not they thought Dooku was a Sith Lord) when he was "rescued" by this somewhat unstable Jedi apprentice who is the first to learn and tell them about the Chancellor's dark side and they just tell Anakin to stay put while they handle it? You'd think Yoda would have the wisdom to say, "My eye on him will I keep. Bring him." I mean, afterall, Anakin is the accuser/informant and should be there to legitimize any coup and if he is part of the conspiracy it's better to know where he is. You don't let those you distrust roam around behind your back! The Jedi don't know that Palpatine was behind the Civil War, they only know that Anakin thinks he is a Sith Lord." It's funny how the Empire was born from an overzealous self-righteous overly-dogmatic vigilante-like religious persecution of Palpatine by the Jedi. Makes me sympathetic to the Sith. Why could the Jedi not accept Palpatine as a Sith and as Chancellor? Because they were also dealing in absolutes.

[mopc]

One great scene I believe no one mentioned yet: the view of the Death Start under construction with Annakin watching it. FABULOUS.

[Kristophe]

One great scene I believe no one mentioned yet: the view of the Death Start under construction with Annakin watching it. FABULOUS.

That actually really confused me. How long did that bloody Death Star take to build? 20 years?

I agree about the dialogue about absolutes.
And that was the mistake that killed them all. Whether intentional, or a total flubb on Lucas's part, Obi Wan's comment on only Sith dealing in absolutes is pure irony. The Sith clearly see in shades of grey, as everyone as pointed out. The Jedi have put blinders on, and decided that they have the moral high ground. They may have done this for a legitimate reason -- one does not so much command the Dark Side of the Force as they do become swamped by it -- but the end result is a bunch of dogmatic doublespeak. They don't want to admit to their limitations, nor do they even necessarily see them anymore.

The Jedi Council did not trust Anakin, and they never have. He's given them pleanty of reasons to be wary of him. They know he can't control his feelings, and so had no place being called Master. He had not mastered the ways of the Jedi. Windu's fault was not in leaving Anakin behind, but rather not leaving someone with him. Bringing Anakin into the chambers, to be with Palpatine, knowing that they had a close personal relationship AND that he was a Sith Lord, and that Anakin was constantly conflicted and emotional, would have been a huge risk. Of course, Master Windu really didn't make for a very good role model himself. He clearly feared Palpatine's power, and didn't trust the Senate to do what needed to be done. That was both the downfall of himself, and the entire Jedi order. Anakin tried to stop him from killing out of fear, and Palpatine took advantage of that.

[dcolanduno]

In all this, I think the one commentary that could be interesting is that the 'good' Jedi, Kenobi, was torn apart at the fact that Anakin was supposed to bring 'balance' to the force.

By having Luke, I guess he does this indirectly.

But, I noticed something. The 'good' side thought balance meant killing off the Sith. At the end of the day, it's killing off BOTH the Jedi and the Sith, (Return of the Jedi). Because, Luke, was by far, a pretty 'in-the-middle' guy compared to what we saw in the Epi I-III.

I think it's interesting that at the end of the day, balance was to wipe out both extremists. We could learn something from that. ;)

[Moose]

In all this, I think the one commentary that could be interesting is that the 'good' Jedi, Kenobi, was torn apart at the fact that Anakin was supposed to bring 'balance' to the force.

Anakin fulfilled the prophesy quite precisely. He brought balance to the force and destroyed the Sith. He did precisely that by wiping out both sides.

Remember, Luke didn't kill Vader, and he didn't kill Palpatine. He had precisely zero chance of surviving a direct encounter with two Sith Lords with home field advantage. He was there to try and reach Vader, and hopefully distract the Emperor so that the attack could succeed. The only reason Luke escaped is because Vader turned on the Emperor.

One Jedi, with no more formal training than a Padawan, will not on his own unbalance the force.

[dcolanduno]

Anakin fulfilled the prophesy quite precisely. He brought balance to the force and destroyed the Sith. He did precisely that by wiping out both sides.

EXACTLY my point. Extremists, which are usually opinionated absolutists, are never good news in the long run. Hence, the need to wipe them both out to balance the universe!

[frogesque]

OK, so is there any good reason left now to actually go and watch the film? 8)

[Moose]

OK, so is there any good reason left now to actually go and watch the film? 8)

Of course there is. (Here there be spoilers, BTW.)

Actually, like watching Cameron's Titanic, there really aren't any major surprises. You know the boat sinks, and Anakin turns.

You didn't hear the details, and it's the details that makes the movie worthwhile.

[Kristophe]

Yeah, the movie was actually pretty good. It did everything the first two didn't -- told the story of the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker. They removed most of the major annoyances fromt he first two, and finally got it right. My only issue with the movie is that, really, a good deal of it should have been Episode II, with Attack of the Clones having been condensed into Phantom Menace, and the third movie having Darth Vader and the Empire sweep through the galaxy, and the formation of the rebellion. We're really not left with any reason for Vader to have the awesome reputation that he does come A New Hope. I guess we just have to assume he's spent his time being a tyrant.

[um3k]

Yeah, the movie was actually pretty good. It did everything the first two didn't -- told the story of the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker. They removed most of the major annoyances fromt he first two, and finally got it right. My only issue with the movie is that, really, a good deal of it should have been Episode II, with Attack of the Clones having been condensed into Phantom Menace, and the third movie having Darth Vader and the Empire sweep through the galaxy, and the formation of the rebellion. We're really not left with any reason for Vader to have the awesome reputation that he does come A New Hope. I guess we just have to assume he's spent his time being a tyrant.
Maybe they'll make Star Wars Episode 3 and a half. :D

[mopc]

One great scene I believe no one mentioned yet: the view of the Death Start under construction with Annakin watching it. FABULOUS.

That actually really confused me. How long did that bloody Death Star take to build? 20 years?

The thing was as big as a moon, so even for a civilization of huge power, 20 years isn't that much.

[mopc]

interesting globalized data: here in Brazil the subtitles have count Dooku renamed count Dookan, because Dooku sounds like 'of the ... well.. rectal orifice'.... :lol: And the name Amidala was given an acute accent 'Amidála' because 'amídala' means 'tonsils'....

[MoMo]

What I hated the most in the prequels (aside obviously from Jar Jar Binks argh!) is that talk of "midichlorians" whatevertheycallit. Wasn't the Force supposed to be something ethereal, the Tao, instead of being attached to chemicals in the blood????

Midi-clorians are microscopic life-forms that link all living things and the Force together. The Force is an energy field that surrounds all living things. The more midi-clorians a being has, the better his/her ability to communicate with and manipulate the Force. They are separate entities--or that's how I understand it at least.

I initially took the prophecy to work out to be that he fathers Luke and Leia, but come A New Hope we're left with two Sith, and two Jedi. A very interesting balance indeed.

The Force is only balanced if there are no Sith. George Lucas said this in an interview which I read a while ago. He claimed that the Force was out of balance because the Sith used it in unnatural ways, thus creating the imbalance. If I'm not mistaken, he also said that the only one who could destroy Darth Sidious was Anakin/Vader, which is why he is created by the Force--to fulfill the prophecy by destroying the Sith from the inside. He not only kills the Sith Lord (Sidious), but also the apprentice (himself). It has nothing to do with how many Jedi's there are.

[mopc]

What I hated the most in the prequels (aside obviously from Jar Jar Binks argh!) is that talk of "midichlorians" whatevertheycallit. Wasn't the Force supposed to be something ethereal, the Tao, instead of being attached to chemicals in the blood????

Midi-clorians are microscopic life-forms that link all living things and the Force together. The Force is an energy field that surrounds all living things. The more midi-clorians a being has, the better his/her ability to communicate with and manipulate the Force. They are separate entities--or that's how I understand it at least.

That makes it even worse. Now I wanna kill the midichlorophyle thingies!

[mopc]

First and best reason why the Star Wars prequels are great!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/mopc/natalie.jpg

Now I'd give every midi-bad word-chlorians in the galaxy for that princess!!!!!!!!!

[dcolanduno]

Man,

That girl is just amazing to look at, even bald...

[mopc]

She's insanely beautiful. No words.

[PyroFreak]

Possible spoiler:







I think some of the scenes are a little over the top. From Return of the Jedi, we know that Vader is mostly machine, and all twisted and scarred. We didn't need to see Anikan laying there with no arms and legs, and then he gets set on fire, and is screaming there. That was out of control, and I would never take my child to see that. I think they could have done a much better job with that. Yeah, I know it's PG-13, but that was inexcusable in my opinion. I wonder how may kids are gunna be haunted by that.

[pumpkinpie]

James Earl Jones should never be forced to say, "noooooooo!"

I didn't think that was him! I saw the movie yesterday, not knowing (or even considering) if JEJ was a part of ep III. But at that scene, as he said his handful of words, it just didn't sound right to me. I didn't think it was JEJ, I just thought it was Hayden run through a computer. I talked to a couple people afterward and they didn't think it was JEJ either, so I was complaining. I thought it was silly not to have JEJ's voice as Darth Vader. To me, that is the most recognizable and memorable trait of eps IV-VI. Vader's voice. I was disappointed that JEJ was left out.

Then I saw a couple posts today about it, and of course I had to check IMDB. There it was--JEJ uncredited as Darth Vader! I'm glad. Though, I still don't think it sounded right! :lol:

[Gillianren]

I think some of the scenes are a little over the top. From Return of the Jedi, we know that Vader is mostly machine, and all twisted and scarred. We didn't need to see Anikan laying there with no arms and legs, and then he gets set on fire, and is screaming there. That was out of control, and I would never take my child to see that. I think they could have done a much better job with that. Yeah, I know it's PG-13, but that was inexcusable in my opinion. I wonder how may kids are gunna be haunted by that.

I don't think it's Lucas's fault if they are. that's what ratings are for, for heaven's sake. I had a problem with how kid-oriented Episode I seemed to be, simply because I knew how dark this one would turn out to be. had to turn out to be. it's one thing to "know" that Vader's more machine than man, but every other limb-removal (and there were a lot in this movie, weren't there?) in Star Wars has been shown. it's a visual medium.

I was watching Ebert and Roeper last night, and they kept saying how it "wasn't that bad," that it got its rating for "video game violence," and I think what they were missing is that you don't get emotionally attached to the characters that die in video games. even knowing it was coming, I felt wounded when Mace Windu went out the window. (mostly because I really like Samuel L. Jackson, but anyway . . . .) for me, it wasn't the violence--it was the grief in Yoda's eyes, CGI though they may be. the violence was bad, but the emotional content was worse. just as Liam Neeson wouldn't let his then-pretty-young kids watch Episode I, because they didn't need to see Daddy's funeral.

there's a real problem in this country--don't know how it is elsewhere--with people ignoring the ratings and then getting mad because their kids can't handle it. there were little kids in the theatre when I saw the first Austin Powers movie, when I saw Mystery Men, when I saw Hitchhiker's, and more than a few others. and I mean, like, under seven.

actually, one of the five-year-olds in the theatre for Austin Powers kind of got revenge. during the sequence with the ill-tempered sea bass with the lasers on their heads, when they showed the really fake rubber body, said kid shrieked, in piercing little-kid tones, "I don't ever want you to take me to see this movie ever again!" wonder if the parent listened . . . .

[Moose]

Yeah, I know it's PG-13, but that was inexcusable in my opinion. I wonder how may kids are gunna be haunted by that.

Movie ratings exist for a reason.

[Swift]

What I hated the most in the prequels (aside obviously from Jar Jar Binks argh!) is that talk of "midichlorians" whatevertheycallit. Wasn't the Force supposed to be something ethereal, the Tao, instead of being attached to chemicals in the blood????

Midi-clorians are microscopic life-forms that link all living things and the Force together. The Force is an energy field that surrounds all living things. The more midi-clorians a being has, the better his/her ability to communicate with and manipulate the Force. They are separate entities--or that's how I understand it at least.

That makes it even worse. Now I wanna kill the midichlorophyle thingies!
I always thought that the midichlorians were supposed to be mitochondria (LINK (http://www.cellsalive.com/cells/mitochon.htm)). There are some theories that mitochondria were originally a separate organism that developed a symbiotic relationship to other cells (for example, they have separate genetics). I not sure if I like a pseudo-science explanation for the Force or not. :-?

[Swift]

OK, so is there any good reason left now to actually go and watch the film? 8)

Of course there is. (Here there be spoilers, BTW.)

Actually, like watching Cameron's Titanic, there really aren't any major surprises. You know the boat sinks, and Anakin turns.

You didn't hear the details, and it's the details that makes the movie worthwhile.
The boat SINKS! :o


Oh, you mean in Titanic. #-o I thought some boat sinks in Star Wars.

[Kristophe]

Yeah, I know it's PG-13, but that was inexcusable in my opinion. I wonder how may kids are gunna be haunted by that.

Movie ratings exist for a reason.

Agreed. And the only thing that bothered me about Anakin getting chopped up and burned is that I was sort of expecting Vader to be built up over the years. I was caught really off guard to see him sliced to pieces all at once. A limb here, and a stab to the lung there, over the course of his life as he learned to be less wreckless. I was actually quite pleased with the way things turned out.

[Lianachan]

there's a real problem in this country--don't know how it is elsewhere--with people ignoring the ratings and then getting mad because their kids can't handle it.

=D>

This has been true of so many films. Conversely, I think it's also resulted in films being dumbed down/de-gored to aim films more at kids.

Case in point - Aliens v Predator. Two franchises which have generated six 18 certificate (I'm UK, sorry!) films between them (most of them good) finally come together after years of speculation/comics/books. A crap film may well have been expected, but one that has a 15 certificate? Grrr...

[Gillianren]

Case in point - Aliens v Predator. Two franchises which have generated six 18 certificate (I'm UK, sorry!) films between them (most of them good) finally come together after years of speculation/comics/books. A crap film may well have been expected, but one that has a 15 certificate? Grrr...

can you translate that for an ignorant American? if you need me to, I can translate our ratings system in exchange.

[SeanF]

Case in point - Aliens v Predator. Two franchises which have generated six 18 certificate (I'm UK, sorry!) films between them (most of them good) finally come together after years of speculation/comics/books. A crap film may well have been expected, but one that has a 15 certificate? Grrr...

can you translate that for an ignorant American? if you need me to, I can translate our ratings system in exchange.
It's the same here (for those movies, I mean).

The four Alien movies and the two Predator movies were all rated 'R'. Alien vs. Predator was rated PG-13.

[Nicolas]

OK, so is there any good reason left now to actually go and watch the film? 8)

Of course there is. (Here there be spoilers, BTW.)

Actually, like watching Cameron's Titanic, there really aren't any major surprises. You know the boat sinks, and Anakin turns.

You didn't hear the details, and it's the details that makes the movie worthwhile.

You know, it was kind of fun to sit in the movie theatre and spoil the movie by whispering (...) that "that boat is going to sink" the first time the Titanic comes on screen :D.

About spoiling movies: try to beat Homer Simpson with his Star Wars spoiler :D =D>

[Grizzly]

Anakin: "Oh My God I can't believe what I've done" [/Pout]
Palpatine: "Wanna be my disciple?"
Anakin: "Okay."

George could have spent a bit more time, and maybe had Tom Stoppard work this out a bit more.

Not that Hayden can play conflicted emotions very well, but still.

And don't get me started about the holes in the "fine job of connecting episodes 3 and 4".

How does Leia remember her mother anyway?
And just where in that lava floe did Anakin say "Oh yeah... Obi, just give that there light saber to my son, I want him to have it."?

[MoMo]

Uhhhh, Obi-Wan picked up Anakin's light saber right after chopping him down. He gave it to Luke so that he could learn to use it to defeat Vader, not because Vader wanted him to have it.

[Musashi]

Well, Obi does say that "your father wanted you to have this" or something similar. But, I think it could easily be Obi being dramatic. Also, I have a feeling that when Star Wars (A new Hope (Ep IV)) was filming, Lucas hadn't made up his mind about Vader actually being Anakin Skywalker.

[The Supreme Canuck]

I think the line was "This was your father's." Quite true.

[mopc]

why did that robot cough so much?

[Musashi]

I think he was a cyborg. I have the Clone Wars series coming from Netflix. I think it explains more about General Grievous. I will let you know after I see it ;).

[Musashi]

The line is (in the DVD version), "I have something here for you. Your father wanted you to have this, when you were old enough. You uncle wouldn't allow it..."

[Musashi]

Another thing. In Ep IV, in the added scene with Jabba at the Falcon, is that Kobayashi (The Usual Suspects) and Hagrid (Harry Potter), in the background?

[The Supreme Canuck]

The line is (in the DVD version), "I have something here for you. Your father wanted you to have this, when you were old enough. You uncle wouldn't allow it..."

Huh. Whoops.

[Musashi]

:) I woulda believed you if I didn't already have the dvd in my player.

[The Supreme Canuck]

Heck, I did believe me!

[MoMo]

why did that robot cough so much?

******* CLONE WARS SPOILERS *******

Mace Windu Force crushed his chest (General Grievous). This was explained in volume II of the Clone Wars cartoon series, which isn't out on DVD yet (or is it?). A few more things that are explained in the Clone Wars series are:

* Anakin's promotion from Padawan to Jedi.
* Invasion of Coruscant and capture of Palpatine.
* General Grievous' light saber training with Count Dooku.

I think most of the setup for Revenge of the Sith comes from volume II of the cartoon series. They really should have released that volume before the movie opened. It would have saved a lot of confusion and disappointment for some people. :P

[Jpax2003]

Perhaps Leia watched vids and had some holo-photos of Padme. Interesting that one of her parents was Padme and the other was a Padawan.

I think Obi-wan mentioned that Anakin kept losing his light saber in AotC, so perhaps Obi-wan has several of Anakin's light saber's he could have given Luke.

[Lianachan]

I think Obi-wan mentioned that Anakin kept losing his light saber in AotC, so perhaps Obi-wan has several of Anakin's light saber's he could have given Luke.

Kenobi is clearly shown picking up Vaders lightsaber in Episode III, post-duel. Although the discrepancy about "your father wanted you to have this" has come about because Lucas had no idea about the bigger story he was going to end up trying to tell, I let this one pass. For me, it seems like a natural part of the "some bloke called Darth Vader killed your dad - your dad was great" story that Kenobi spins to Luke.

[Disinfo Agent]

So once again the "good guys" turn out to be liars... :roll:

[Lianachan]

So once again the "good guys" turn out to be liars... :roll:A major factor in the way Kenobi talks to Luke about his father is because he feels that, to a large degree, Anakin's turning to the dark side and Vaderification (with resultant consequences for the galaxy) was down to his own poor training of him. He doesn't want to make the same mistake with Luke.

[tofu]

Speaking of plot holes between the first three episodes and the last three: in Empire Strikes Back, as Luke is leaving Degoba to go rescue Han and Leia, Obi Wan says to Yoda, "that boy is out last hope." Yoda replies, "no, there is another." The scene fades out, but it's implied that this is when Yoda tells Obi Wan that Leia is Luke's sister.

However, in episode III, Obiwan is obviously present when the twins are born. So, he already knew there were two kids.

I also didn't much like the sequence where Anakin turns to the dark side. I just didn't buy it. The scene in ROTJ is much better. Mark Hamill (though hardly a top-notch actor) does a good job of portraying the rage he's feeling. I remember seeing it for the first time and being pretty ****ed off myself. The rebel fleet is about to be destroyed. The commandos on Endor are trapped. Vader says, "screw you, now I'm going after your sister." And in the middle of it is this arrogant little man with the evil laugh. I can really believe that Luke was close to giving in to his anger. The reward for doing so would be that Palpatine would let some of his friends survive. And just like Pavlov's dogs, Luke would be instantly conditioned to do Palpatine's will.

I really wish that Lucas would have used the same formula in ep. III. I can imagine Anakin being confronted with the reality that everything he loved was going to end. The republic was about to fall. His wife was going to die. For added effect, it would have been cool if Palpatine had secretly told the Jedi council that Anakin was married, then they would kick him out. See that way, Anakin would be standing there, faced with losing everything. And Palpatine could give it all back to him. To me, that setup works a lot better than what we actually had in the film.

[Lianachan]

Speaking of plot holes between the first three episodes and the last three: in Empire Strikes Back, as Luke is leaving Degoba to go rescue Han and Leia, Obi Wan says to Yoda, "that boy is out last hope." Yoda replies, "no, there is another." The scene fades out, but it's implied that this is when Yoda tells Obi Wan that Leia is Luke's sister.

However, in episode III, Obiwan is obviously present when the twins are born. So, he already knew there were two kids.

That's bothered me too. There's no story-internal explanation, it's purely a left-over hole (strange, because it's such an obvious one). The story-external reason is that Yoda was talking about another character altogether. This character was dropped long before ever being written (before even having a name, IIRC) in favour of making Leia Luke's sister (and the person Yoda is talking about).

[Bob]

Where were the toilets in those little one-seater starships?

[Mainframes]

Speaking of plot holes between the first three episodes and the last three: in Empire Strikes Back, as Luke is leaving Degoba to go rescue Han and Leia, Obi Wan says to Yoda, "that boy is out last hope." Yoda replies, "no, there is another." The scene fades out, but it's implied that this is when Yoda tells Obi Wan that Leia is Luke's sister.

However, in episode III, Obiwan is obviously present when the twins are born. So, he already knew there were two kids.

That's bothered me too. There's no story-internal explanation, it's purely a left-over hole (strange, because it's such an obvious one). The story-external reason is that Yoda was talking about another character altogether. This character was dropped long before ever being written (before even having a name, IIRC) in favour of making Leia Luke's sister (and the person Yoda is talking about).

Maybe Obi-wan just doesn't think leia capable of being trained properly as a jedi......

[Gillianren]

Speaking of plot holes between the first three episodes and the last three: in Empire Strikes Back, as Luke is leaving Degoba to go rescue Han and Leia, Obi Wan says to Yoda, "that boy is out last hope." Yoda replies, "no, there is another." The scene fades out, but it's implied that this is when Yoda tells Obi Wan that Leia is Luke's sister.

However, in episode III, Obiwan is obviously present when the twins are born. So, he already knew there were two kids.

That's bothered me too. There's no story-internal explanation, it's purely a left-over hole (strange, because it's such an obvious one). The story-external reason is that Yoda was talking about another character altogether. This character was dropped long before ever being written (before even having a name, IIRC) in favour of making Leia Luke's sister (and the person Yoda is talking about).

Maybe Obi-wan just doesn't think leia capable of being trained properly as a jedi......

maybe it's that she wasn't being trained, and she had never shown signs that she was going to be. after all, half-trained Luke may be, but half a Jedi training is still better than none, isn't it?

as for the bathrooms--where are the bathrooms in cars? there aren't any. if you need to potty, you don't do it in the ship.

[Lianachan]

maybe it's that she wasn't being trained, and she had never shown signs that she was going to be. after all, half-trained Luke may be, but half a Jedi training is still better than none, isn't it?I would say so, yes.

Maybe Obi-wan just doesn't think leia capable of being trained properly as a jedi......Maybe he does think that, but I would think Yoda would probably have said something about Lukes sister, rather than inform Kenobi that there is "another".

The reason for the line is as I stated above - it's a reference to a future character who never made it into the story.

[Doodler]

Given that the Force seems to have a physical component, inheritance of the ability to manipulate it could be a variable. Even in the EU, Leia never progresses to more than rudimentary levels with her abilities where Luke goes on to become an accomplished Master (after a short stint as a Sith Lord).

Luke's potential could simply have been stronger.

[Gullible Jones]

Mace Windu Force crushed his chest (General Grievous). This was explained in volume II of the Clone Wars cartoon series, which isn't out on DVD yet (or is it?). A few more things that are explained in the Clone Wars series are:


That can't be canon... Isn't using the Force directly against another person yielding to the Dark side?

[Kristophe]

That can't be canon... Isn't using the Force directly against another person yielding to the Dark side?

Isn't trying to kill an unarmed foe while he lays desformed and apparently helpless also yielding to the Dark side?

[Gullible Jones]

It should be.

[PhantomWolf]

That can't be canon... Isn't using the Force directly against another person yielding to the Dark side?

No, using the force in anger and hate against another person is yeilding to the Dark Side.

I do agree about the Obi-Wan/Leia thing, it did leave a hole and should have been easy enough to plug, the same with Liea remembering her mother on Endor (one now has to assume that this mother was in fact her adopted mother, Bail's wife.) As to the lightsaber, heck, why can't Jedi tell a few white lies, Obi-Wan DID tell Luke that Vader had killed his father, what difference does it make to whether he really wanted Luke to have his saber? One lie, two lies, what's the difference? Besides, Anakin probably DID want his child to one day carry his saber, prior to his turning and believing that Padme had died as had he child, that is. As Obi-Wan goes on to explain later, the truth depends greatly on your point of view and from one point of view, Anakin probably would have wanted what Obi-Wan stated he did, so....

The obvious reality of the statment however, is to get Luke to take it and be trained so that he can not only help Obi-Wan, but later face Vader and the Emperor, so he told Luke exactly what he needed to hear to take up the lightsaber.

[Gullible Jones]

No, using the force in anger and hate against another person is yeilding to the Dark Side.

And Mace blasts Grievous without doing that how?

(Then again, I suppose that Mace Windu might occasionally yield to the Dark side. He does, after all, have a bit of a temper IIRC.)

[Bob]

Relive Episode IV in ASCII

http://www.asciimation.co.nz/

[Lianachan]

No, using the force in anger and hate against another person is yeilding to the Dark Side.

And Mace blasts Grievous without doing that how?

(Then again, I suppose that Mace Windu might occasionally yield to the Dark side. He does, after all, have a bit of a temper IIRC.)

The novelisation makes great play of Mace Windu teetering on the brink of the dark side when fighting. Not just fighting the Emperor, but fighting in general. It's his style, I suppose. I expect Lucas didn't feel like he could have Samuel L. Jackson portray any character who wasn't bad. He should have been allowed to swear, too. :D

[jofg]

In regard to the "your father wanted you to have this" line - I take this to mean that the pre-Darth Anakin, would have wanted his son (if/when he had one) to have his lightsaber and follow in his footsteps to be a Jedi. And when Obi says "Darth killed your father" that's true of course in the sense that the dark side in Anakin killed the light side.

[MoMo]

The novelisation makes great play of Mace Windu teetering on the brink of the dark side when fighting. Not just fighting the Emperor, but fighting in general. It's his style, I suppose. I expect Lucas didn't feel like he could have Samuel L. Jackson portray any character who wasn't bad. He should have been allowed to swear, too. :D

That is correct, it is his style. Mace Windu helped develop a style of fighting known as Vapaad (Form VII), which requires mastery of the flow of light and dark forces. I think one other Jedi tried to master this style and ended up falling to the dark side.

[Lianachan]

The novelisation makes great play of Mace Windu teetering on the brink of the dark side when fighting. Not just fighting the Emperor, but fighting in general. It's his style, I suppose. I expect Lucas didn't feel like he could have Samuel L. Jackson portray any character who wasn't bad. He should have been allowed to swear, too. :D

That is correct, it is his style. Mace Windu helped develop a style of fighting known as Vapaad (Form VII), which requires mastery of the flow of light and dark forces. I think one other Jedi tried to master this style and ended up falling to the dark side.

Worst aspect of the book, for me. Fair enough mentioning things like that in computer games, but I felt it cheapened what was an otherwise surprisingly decent book.

[Gillianren]

I have this theory that the only character in Star Wars who swears is R2. and maybe, sometimes, Chewbacca. but R2's probably a potty-mouth, if you know what he's saying.

[PhantomWolf]

In regard to the "your father wanted you to have this" line - I take this to mean that the pre-Darth Anakin, would have wanted his son (if/when he had one) to have his lightsaber and follow in his footsteps to be a Jedi. And when Obi says "Darth killed your father" that's true of course in the sense that the dark side in Anakin killed the light side.

Exactly, from a certain point of view.

[Glom]

Saw it again. Some of the Anakin/Padme interaction was a bit crapper than I first realised. First time round, I was blindsided by the fact that it was A Beautiful Mind compared to Episode II. However it wasn't too bad.

I think the parts on the lava world were virtuoso when you put al the aspects together.

[The Supreme Canuck]

I went to see it today, and I have to say that it's my favourite of at least the first four movies (I haven't watched the last two in years, so I can't judge). The first two were awful, and the fourth was just too campy for me.

And Palpatine in Episode III was just incredible.