Science Project Rejection: BB Guns Can Be Dangerous

[01101001]

Science project involving BB gun too dangerous (http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=88949)

Two middle school students who spent months working on a science project to prove how dangerous BB guns can be were disqualified from the state middle school science fair - because BB guns are too dangerous.

QED

[paulie jay]

I do like the irony! Or is it irony...?

BB guns are totally prohibited in Australia, which actually doesn't stop people trying to bring them in from Bali when they go on holidays...

[frogesque]

Excuse my ignorance, what exactly is a BB gun? I was expecting something about Big Bang experiments and accelerators :lol:

Do they mean ball bearings, martian blueberries or what? I did a quick search, pages and pages of weapon dealers wanting to sell them to me but no descriptions of what they are or any safety/legal (UK) stuff.

[Stregone]

Its a gun that shoots little bullets (that are not much unlike Ball Bearings in shape and size) using some sort of spring or compressed air.

[frogesque]

Thanks Stregone So what you have in esence is a low accuracy weapon discharging metal pellets (I'm guessing ~1/8" or 3mm dia) Driven by compressed air or CO2 I would imagine that they could easily penetrate flesh at close range and eyesight, even at a distance, would certainly be compromised. Not the sort of thing I would let an unsupervised child play with.

I realise this was a project conducted under responsible adult guidance but surely part of that guidance would be consulting and interpreting the competition rules? I have to side with the competion organisers but I'm pleased the research done won't be wasted.

[Cylinder]

YOU'RE GONNA PUT A EYE OUT WITH THAT THING!!!

[/mom]

:lol:

[Stregone]

My best friend and I used to play with his BB gun all the time when we were kids. We'd setup little army men and stuff and shoot at 'em in his backyard, that had a nice tall solid fence around it (no space between boards for BBs to fly through). We weren't allowed to use it anywhere else. They are really only dangerous if the kid and/or the parents are stupid. I'm sure a lot of you (Americans anyways) know someone who is rather old now that was given a .22 rifle when he turned 13 or something like that, and never killed himself or his friends with it.

[frogesque]

I hope I didn't come over as another anti gun Brit who demands the US disarms its citizens. True, we do things differently but it's a matter for the US to decide, not for outside interferance. For the record we have a big problem with kids carrying knives and criminals will always obtain illegal guns if they want to.

I was just mildly shocked that BB guns (especially gas powered) were freely available and quoted in Sterling when I'm fairly certain they would be deemed illegal offensive weapons in the UK. Gas powered air guns and repeaters certainly are.

[Sammy]

Our BB guns are air powered, tho not with compressed gas via a bottle/catridge. Each gun has a lever-action pump which builds up a low pressure "head" of pressure. A BB will definitely penetrate flesh, through clothing. One of my childhood buddies accidently shot another buddy in the thigh, and a trip to the ER followed. It was extracted without real surgery, but our parents got pretty hysterical!

If you haven't seen it, get the movie "A Christmas Story" by the humorist Jean Sheppard (c 1980s). It's about a 1930s kid who lusts for a BB gun for Christmas. His mother's response is always "You'll shoot your eye out!" His dad gets him one and he almost shoots his eye out.

[azazul]

Two middle school students who spent months working on a science project to prove how dangerous BB guns can be were disqualified from the state middle school science fair - because BB guns are too dangerous.
Well, you can't get any better supporting evidence than that.

[Charlie in Dayton]

We're talkin' .177 cal (that's 177/1000 inch diameter ball)/ 4.5mm with a muzzle velocity of 275 - 300 feet per second (remember, that's at the muzzle -- that velocity falls off drastically as the round goes downrange -- round balls have an abysmal ballistic coefficient).

Supposedly, more modern BB guns have muzzle velocities of upwards of 350 fps. Any way you look at it, if it fires something faster than you can run, and you're close enough to smack someone over the head with it, DON'T SHOOT IT IN THEIR DIRECTION!!!

[dummy me mode]This is the voice of experience speaking![/dummy me mode]

[frogesque]

Thanks for the added info Charlie. .177 (4.5mm) is a fair size projectile. Are they lead/heavy alloy based or aluminium? I've seen plastic beads for sale on market stalls but they may be for something different.

[Captain Kidd]

I hope I didn't come over as another anti gun Brit who demands the US disarms its citizens. True, we do things differently but it's a matter for the US to decide, not for outside interferance. For the record we have a big problem with kids carrying knives and criminals will always obtain illegal guns if they want to.

I was just mildly shocked that BB guns (especially gas powered) were freely available and quoted in Sterling when I'm fairly certain they would be deemed illegal offensive weapons in the UK. Gas powered air guns and repeaters certainly are.
They're legal in the UK (http://www.bbguns.co.uk/) pending you keep the power output below set limits.
The power output of Airsoft or BBguns is below the level at which air gun regulations become applicable and they are classified as `Detailed Scale Models for Adult Collectors’. No licence is necessary and BB guns may be purchased by person’s aged 14 and over. However Antics, and www.bbguns.co.uk, imposes a voluntary minimum age limit of 17 on purchases of all but low powered models below £25.00.

At present, bbguns would be considered a `firearm' or `offensive weapon' if used to commit a crime or to threaten a person, and it is now proposed to ban them from being carried in a public place without good reason. This would not prevent models being transported in a secure way with good reason – which could include transporting it to a friend.

But an air soft, or bbgun, should never be used in a public place in such a way that it could be mistaken for a real weapon. Waving one around in public is an absolute no, no!

[snip]

You do not need a licence to own an air rifle or air pistol providing it is not capable of exceeding a certain power limit with any brand of airgun pellet. The power limit is set at 12ft. lbs. for air rifles and 6 ft. lbs. for air pistols. None of the models we sell exceed these limits. It is the owner's responsibility to maintain a legal power output.(from their warranty and regulations page (http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/warrantyandregulations.aspx).)

Here's the Daisy (http://www.daisy.com/) website. They're one of the big names. And here's a general order website (http://www.pyramydair.com/).

Edit: Oh yeah the metal used. I've seen both copper and steel. I don't remember ever seeing lead BBs. I've seen plastic too, not as much when i was young, but more often now.

[Heid the Ba']

As the good Captain has pointed out they are called air rifles here. There have been a couple of deaths and some serious injuries recently due to misuse. There is some media hysteria to get them banned. A couple of years ago crossbows were the terror weapon of choice of neds, I can't remember if they were banned or not.

[frogesque]

Hmm... A fascinating if somewhat scary world. I can see the appeal although they are not for me. I've only ever fired a shotgun (.410) twice and it did absolutely nothing for me (or the target!) Now a trebuche or cannon and black powder - thats probably something I could get into.

I would probably start small (http://www.cannon-mania.com/anvil.htm) and work my way up from there 8)

[Ripper 2.0]

Air guns have been around for centuries. There were a few with .50 cal bores on the Louis and Clark expedition. Today they are usually .177, .20 (5mm), or .22 cal. BB guns are always .177. A well made one is capable of decent accuracy. The ones like on Christmas Story are smooth bore and only use BBs. The low end ones might get less that 200fps. The high end pellet guns can hit over 1100fps and are as accurate as a rifle. I have never heard of anyone being killed with any kind of small bore air rifle, though I suppose it is theoretically possible.

BTW, the winner of the Steel Chalenge combat pistol match last year was Japanese and had only ever fired an air-pistol before. He uesd what is called an Air-Soft pistol that fires 6mm plastic balls. I think the military and police forces have underestimated the value of these "toys" as serious training tools.

[R.A.F.]

I know this is a bit overdue, but welcome back Ripper 2.0. It's good to see you here again!

Yes, bb guns can be dangerous. I got a tooth shot off while playing "bb gun wars" when I was a kid. :oops:

I guess I'm lucky I still have both eyes. :wink:

[farmerjumperdon]

I wouldn't flat out say they will penetrate flesh through clothing. We used to have BB wars as kids. It was a gas. Everybody wore a helmet with bubble style face shield. We all got hit many times, never a single penetration. They were fairly cheap guns, but I even shot my brother from 4 feet away, and all he was wearing was a t-shirt. He got a nice lettle bruise - that's it. I'd say it is more likely the high-end guns could do damage similar to a bullet, but not the basic daisy rifle. I'd say with the guns we used, anything more than 50 yards wouldn't even hurt on bare skin. Heck, you could actually watch the BB all the way to it's target, and watch it drop about 3 feet in 100 yards.

I would say a more accurate statement would be that a high-powered BB or pellet gun could penetrate flesh, especially at close range and if the victim is wearing light clothing.

[R.A.F.]

Everybody wore a helmet with bubble style face shield.

Ah, ha! That's where I went wrong. :lol:

[farmerjumperdon]

Everybody wore a helmet with bubble style face shield.

Ah, ha! That's where I went wrong. :lol:

Yeah, we went to garage sales and got some real old corny looking helmets. Metal flake colors, chin cup strap, etc. My one buddy even bought his just because the lady said her son had been killed while wearing it. He figured the odds of another person dying while wearing the same helmet had to be just about zero.

[Ripper 2.0]

I know this is a bit overdue, but welcome back Ripper 2.0. It's good to see you here again!
:

Good to hear from you too. I hope your year has been better than mine.

[hermanpetri]

I applaud the students for doing research into this. However one of the one of the first rules of experimenting is to make sure that your experiment meets whatever standards are considered legitimate by the panel of peer review. I'm not saying the experiment itself was flawed (I don't really know anything about their methods) but it's a good learning experience for them to understand that any experiment is always subject to possible disqualification if the review board finds you have not followed the proper safety protocols.

I understand the school's policy for not allowing students to use firearms for their tests. Yes, BB guns are quite low power compared to most everything else, and I really don't have a problem with them under basic safety measures, but I think that their inaccuracy and general unpredictability can be dangerous. Their trajectory is highly influenced by the wind and how many times they are pumped can drastically change the shot as well. More importantly, the shots have a very high capacity for ricochet. It's not uncommon for a BB shot to rebound off of a target 30-50 feet away and still land behind the person firing (trees and harder surfaces easily deflect shots in this manner). In short, it's very difficult to control where that shot will eventually end up.