multiple deminsions

[Powerman 5000]

This may or may not sound weird but do think what happens to you or around you takes seperate courses and creates a seperate demension i saw this on a t.v. show when i was younger and have always felt this presence in my mind that its possible.
For example in one deminsion JFK is shot and in another it never happens and in another the bullet/bullets miss him or they find the FBI was really behind it. Can anyone tell me the show (not sliders) and give me an arguement against it or for it :)

[MikeJ]

Check out Dr David Deutsch on parallel universe theory; collapsed / uncollapsed quantum wave functions; Brian Aldiss wrote an excellent novel on that idea, but like your tv programme, i forget the title. Are you thinking of Quantum Leap maybe (Scott Bakula, pre-Enterprise) ;-)

Just how virtual is reality anyway? If infinite possibilities exist simultaneously, is anything true?

[Tinaa]

or perhaps, everything is true!

[MikeJ]

"Nothing is true, all is permissible" - Hassan i Sabah

[jimmy]

Richard Bach wrote a novel called "One" which explores these atlernate possibilities of existance or choices. It's been a while since I read it (15 years?), but I remember it as a very good read.

[Faulkner]

Read Philip K Dick's "Dr Futurity"...that'll twist your brains around! :lol:

Hassan i Sabah

Is he a terrorist?

[Chook]

Quote Tinaa:
"or perhaps, everything is true! "

This? From YOU Tinaa!?

1+1=3? Kangaroos can fly? Evil is good? Truth equals a lie? Good God! :(

[MikeJ]

Somewhere in what is now Iran, somewhen during what was called the Crusades, long before either the war against drugs or the war against terrorism, the true origin of Haban i Sabah is shrouded in history and mystery. He is one of those mytho-historic characters who - like Robin Hood, King Arthur and countless others across history - was probably a real man who became lost in his own legend. He was either a terrorist or a freedom fighter, either an inspired leader or a tyrant, either a monster or a saint, a mystic or a very early psychologist.... but in brief: check the etymology of "assassin".

History is even more virtual than reality. Whether HiS was a terrorist is a matter of opinion and perspective; whether he really was the source of the "nothing is true" quote is also questionable, but I think that just confirms the wisdom of the words. It is as deep as any zen koan, and well worth the thinking time.

I can hear pre-echoes of Heisenberg in there; and Popper, Nietzsche, even Richard Bach (my faves are 'Illusions' and 'Running from Safety', btw).

The world is your exercise book, the pages on which you do your sums. It is not reality, although you can express reality there if you wish.
You are also free to write nonsense, or lies, or to tear up the pages.

(Messiah's Handbook / Bach, Illusions)

[DippyHippy]

Philip K Dick is superb - if your mind wasn't warped beforehand, it will be afterwards.

I always liked the passage in The Hitch Hikers Guide To The Galaxy which told of how a man once proclaimed that nothing was ever true - but that he was later found to be lying.

Actually, the whole concept of there being alternate realities is something I gave a lot of thought to, years ago, when the prospect of an alternate reality was a lot more attractive than the one I was in at the time.

If you think about it logically, then the universe you're in now could (theoretically) literally revolve around *you.*

I say this because if the theory about realities splitting is based around your decisions is true, then the reality you exist in only exists because of the decisions you yourself have made. And we make decisions every minute of the day.

For example, I felt ill yesterday so I called in sick for work. Thanks to me, someone has earnt a little bit of extra overtime last night. Well... I assume they have... for all I know, like a tree falling in the forest, no one might have earnt anything without me witnessing it.

Today, I made the decision, three or four times, to lie in bed an extra 10 or fifteen minutes because I just didn't want to get up. I had to go to the Post Office but I couldn't be arsed to get up... when I did get up and go, there were 4 or 5 people in the queue in front of me... but what if I'd gotten up earlier? I could have ripped more CD's, sold them on Ebay and someone could have bought them... that person might not bid on my item when I list it in a few days...

All quite trivial, but every little decision you make affects everything else... even deciding to put the kettle on has an influence... your kettle might be the one to cause a surge, leading to a black-out...

But don't lie awake thinking about it LOL

[Powerman 5000]

Nothing is true preception is what is true :rolleyes: am i right or left hahahahahaha

[Powerman 5000]

Im only 15 so im a little young from the way jimmy was saying but with age comes brilliance so i must applaud you jimmy

[MikeJ]

To DippyHippy, yup, I think Philip K Dick overdose already has a lot to do with my state of mind these days (inserts wire into head....) I read '... electric sheep' long before 'Bladerunner' was made ;)

'Ubik' is also worth a read - one of those questions always on my mind is "How can I PROVE that I'm not just a brain in a bottle being fed 'manufactured' stimuli?" (On that subject, I'd say "The Matrix" was a huge disappointment, the biggest waste of a Big Idea in a movie... all that 'gee whizz' don't make up for the plot's failure, I'm afraid).

If you think about it logically, then the universe you're in now could (theoretically) literally revolve around *you.*


I'd say there is no could, theoretically, or even literally, about it - as you have specified "the universe you are now in". That is always centred on the self, because the universe you are in is the universe you perceive. 99% of the world's b***s*** derives from people not being able to tell the difference.

Every 'self' perceives the universe from a different perspective, which is always the centre of the universe (they are in), so no two people can inhabit the same universe. When people talk about "the Universe", all they can ever represent is "their Universe". The universes we inhabit can never be the "objective" universe, no matter how closely it resembles it.

But this is not the place for my theory of everything..... needless to say I'm fascinated by questions around consciousness, reality, perception, language etc etc

[Faulkner]

That's solipsism, pal. You know there is no real logical arguments against it? In fact some schools of quantum thought seem to affirm it!?

"I think, therefore I am"...but what about everybody else? Hallucination?

(Hey, don't blame me...blame Phillip K Dick!!! heh...)

[MikeJ]

Hi Faulkner,

Not quite; I present Counsel for the Defence, m'lud ;)

Etymology: Latin solus alone + ipse self
: a theory holding that the self can know nothing but its own modifications and that the self is the only existent thing

I don't claim the self is the only existent thing, only that we can't know any more of the universe than we perceive.

The caveat being that perception is not passive. We learn how to perceive; babies have to learn to use their senses; even what we see is partly determined by what we have been taught.

I have no problem accepting that everyone else is like me (but I do have my doubts about the pink elephants), or that you're a real human being. (Please don't tell me you're a Turing machine....)

The point is no-one has a monopoly on truth, no matter what their perception of the universe tells them, no matter what books they hold sacred. Each and every one of us is the centre of the universe. Or, as a wiser and more vilified man than I once said:

Every man and every woman is a star

[DippyHippy]

Mike, you're my kind of person!! LOL Actually, I read Electric Sheep because of Blade Runner and that's how I discovered Dick *cough* - but I'll start another topic about that if you'd like to join in there.

I thought the Matrix was a nice idea and as an action film it was great, but the plot was anorexic. I can sum it up in one sentence: The world is an illusion, perpetuated by computers that have the entire human race wired into a mainframe (the Matrix), with a few rebel humans searching for "the One" who will free them.

Oh, it could have been much, much more. If only Dick were alive ;)

[MikeJ]

actually, some of my friends call me "hippy Mike" :lol: