Personal conduct

[damienpaul]

Hi again folks

I am interested in what the folks out there believe constitute best practices in professional conduct, from any field.

Also what do folks consider proper conduct in a community? What place do manners have?


Persoanlly I believe that professional conduct should not equal elitism and a willingness to inspire the young (when they can) and the community and perhaps where appropriate lead by example, as they ought to know that they are in some cases a role model.

I once hada student write to a professional, who bluntly replied 'don't waste my tiime' - literally just that! she was 13 at the time and was understandable upset, that professional, nor anyone else really has the right to be rude like that - look at it this way, she was inspired by him once, but no more.

On the other hand, as I mentioned, when Stephen J. Gould wrote a wonderful message to my 12 year old students - they got such a buzz!!! One is still in contact! and talk about inspired!!!

The same of course applies in forums such as this one, no insinuations meant, sometimes things can be misinterpreted, like my posting about Solar 'Tornadoes' in the 'Debunking the Electric Universe' thread - a question from my student taht I think was taken the wrong way - it was a serious question. I am not asking for it to be answered now, as the student has moved on and is now interested in microbiology. Once again no insinuation or finger pointing intended. Some misinterpretations of course are unavoidable, but how can they be redeemed?

Anyway, I'd like to hear what others think, thank you for your time.

[Chook]

Struth Alice - you're too diplomatic! :P

IMHO the KISS answer is ... treat others as you would have them treat you.

For about 20 years I was closely associated with top scientists in the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna, and I have found that, if there was a pattern, the more accomplished the scientist - the more gentlemanly he was.

So I always suspect arrogant "professionals" as not yet having made it.

[VanderL]

IMHO the KISS answer is ... treat others as you would have them treat you.

That's not what I think is best; always treat others with respect (earned or not).And try to be precise in what you say.
Persoanlly I believe that professional conduct should not equal elitism and a willingness to inspire the young (when they can) and the community and perhaps where appropriate lead by example, as they ought to know that they are in some cases a role model.

I'm not sure what you mean here, but the gist of it seems to me to avoid being condenscending.
Cheers.

[Fraser]

I'm moving this over to the off-topic area, since it's not really about space.

I have a story, though, that my old employer told me one time. He had an interview with an engineer who was looking for a job. My boss needed a copy of his resume, but he was called away by an emergency. He asked the applicant if he could make a photocopy for him. The applicant replied, "I'm an engineer, I don't make photocopies." Needless to say, the interview ended right there.

[Weaselbunny]

I always think, that you get what you give.

It always seems to work when it comes to how you treat people. If you're lousy to someone but they continue to be nice to you, it's porbably because you are in a position of power or have something they need, then you end up with people who'll desert you or stab you in the back... karma perhaps!

I try to lead by example, when I have taught kids, and when dealing with nephews nieces and their friends it has worked.

And you should never, ever turn away a young and curious mind from sharing the benefits of your experience. That arrogant professor sounds like a deeply sad man!

When you give, you generally get a whole lot more back in the end.

[damienpaul]

I also believe that arrogance is a major curse. To me there is no excuse for it ever. It certainly does not impress nor intimidate the vast majority, well the majority that I know.

The irony is that professor that turned away my student then was whinging cause his course at a uni was being axed - for lack of attendence - he chose to be arrogant and rude so therefore he chose to suffer the consequences.

I also think that by not replying is also seen as a snub - not very professional.

[Chook]

Quote Weaselbunny:
"When you give, you generally get a whole lot more back in the end."

Spot on, girl! <_<

[VanderL]

If you're lousy to someone but they continue to be nice to you, it's porbably because you are in a position of power or have something they need, then you end up with people who'll desert you or stab you in the back... karma perhaps!
That's assuming you know exactly what makes you act lousy and/or what the right behaviour is. Always treat people with respect, if others don't treat you with respect, be cool!
Cheers.

[Chook]

Well - I'm human. Arrogance gets my bristles up I'm afraid. :angry:

[Tinaa]

Different cultures have different cultures have different standards of conduct. While many teachers would be taken back by a student asking, "What's up dog?" I find I am elated that a student greeted me first. The kids do talk a different language and have a different culture. Scientists also have a different culture and they most certainly talk a different language than that to which I am accustomed.

I am really unhappy to see this kind of sniping on this forum. It seems that tolerance is taking a back seat. I had refrained from posting on this thread because I think it is tacky. This is not a fair world and not everybody will be kind and gentle. What goes around, doesn't always come around. One cannot change others attitudes, but one can change how one reacts. What one person thinks of as arrogance, another considers it confidence. Don't be so quick to take offence.

[Tim Thompson]

I think that people should treat each other with respect & courtesy, until they demonstrate a good reason to do otherwise. Probably most people would say that, I suspect. But real people act & react according to their own personalities. It's most unfortunate that the prof in question chose to reply so gruffly, but such will happen.

I've done a bit of mentoring by E-mail over the years, and it seems to have worked out O.K.. But in nearly every work environment I've encountered, it is an unsupported activity, something we do "on the side" because we choose too. We don't get paid for it, which is an issue because the things we do get paid for invariably take a lot more time than we get paid to do it in. If we want this kind ot mentoring, tutoring & etc. to be part of the scale by which we measure professional conduct, then we really ought to make it a supported activity. Say, everybody gets one or two hours a week, to use answering E-mails and helping students. Now that would be a big help.

In the meantime, some of us just do it because it's fun & rewarding. I participate ina regular series of teleconferences through the Goldstone Apple Valley Radio Telescope (http://www.lewiscenter.org/force/1112/projects/gavrt.php) (GAVRT) program. Classes who have used the telescope (or will in the future) arrange to gatehr at school, we all call into the conference line, and the students ask questions (whatever they like) of the scientists on the line (sometimes only 1 or 2, sometimes as many as 6 at once). That's the most successful program of its kind I have worked with, but it is an institutionally supported program. Most of my speaking engagements, or tutoring & mentoring have been as a result of my long affiliation with the Los Angeles Astronomical Society (http://www.laas.org/) as an active amateur astronomer in their programs.

If more university students, especially graduate students, were in supported programs to tutor & mentor, they would probably be more likley to carry the habit with them to their "real world" jobs. They may even be the spark that starts an supported program in their new places. But what we have is people going into an intensely competitive environment where mentoring becomes an activity that is almost activel punished by taking too much of what little time there is. That's why we get nay-sayers like the bad prof here. That needs to change.

[Chook]

Well Tinaa, I'm used to gentlemany behavious and, as they say, "If the kitchen gets too hot - get out!" so that's what I would do.

We choose our own friends don't we. :rolleyes:

[damienpaul]

We also choose our way to behave and treat others

[Faulkner]

Always treat people with respect, if others don't treat you with respect, be cool!


God knows I try, but bloody hell, seeing all this "reality TV" crap, "Australian (=name your country) Idol", "Crossing Over With John Edwards", Opray Winfrey, Judge Judy, early morning televangelists, the latest Hollywood "re-makes", politicians speaking in Parliament (like little immature brats), pretentious yuppies, etc etc etc, hell I could go on & on...Gee, it's hard to find respect sometimes for my fellow humanity... Still, I try to "be cool"...Hell, I don't need to "try"!!! B)

[Weaselbunny]

Someone once told me that the one and only thing that we have total control over in this life is the way we choose to behave.

I don't know if I totally agree with it or not, but it's not a bad thing to keep in mind.

[Chook]

Weaselbunny ... YOU don't REALLY believe that, do you? :D :D :D :P

[DippyHippy]

I've had a quick read of the replies and two thoughts come to mind...

1) I wouldn't necessarily agree that you choose your friends... friends are like cats... they choose you LOL 90% of the time it's an honour when someone wants to know you but the other 10% can be a bit creepy!! Similarly, hands up if you've been in the position where you don't want to be friends with someone anymore, for whatever reason, and they don't get the message?

2) I've always believed that a leopard can't change it's spots. That's not to say that a person can't overcome bad behaviour, but the roots of that behaviour will never go. A person will be able to control negative aspects of their personality but sooner or later a situation or set of circumstance will arise that will be perfect for that negative behaviour to resurface.

As a simple example, a compulsive gambler might be able to give up and not even buy a lottery ticket for years but if he or she should ever find themselves in dire financial straits, the temptation would be there to gamble, in the hope of raising money. Whether that person decides to revert back to that behaviour is purely a case of personal choice and willpower.

[Algenon the mouse]

I am a mod of another forum and we frequently get people who like to flame noobs or mods. I think some people do it because they think it makes them look good. Why downing someone would make anyone look good is beyond me. In my opinion it makes you look lower than low. But this seems to be true in life off-line as well. I think it takes far more guts to stand up to the bully than it does to bully someone. (I teach 6th grade)

I would rather have fun in a forum or with my friends than actively seek to down someone.

[abyssalroamer]

In my almost-40 years as a scientist-in-training and scientist I have been blessed by having had contact with an uncommon number of gifted people. From my last year in high school up to today, I have been mentored by, rented a room from in college, or just sat and had dinner with something like 8 Nobel Laureates. Only one, Linus Pauling, who I had done yard work for as a kid, was even remotely cocky. That moment came in college when i asked the "dumb question" and his response stung--at the time. Since then I realized that there was some very sage advice in the comment, but I hope that I would not respond to someone that same way if I am in that position. I won't ever reach the stature of the greats, but I am known for my moderate success as a scientist, for my integrity, and willingness to share my insights with anyone. It hasn't been until these past two years in AOL that i have encountered a continuous stream of rude people seeking validation by tearing others down. In Space Chat, out of the blue one of the participants (who is also a host) went on a nasty harangue about a certain religion, which happens to be my children's faith. Personally, I don't care for that church at all, but that had and has nothing to do with comets. That same person three nights ago, made some nasty remarks about Guyana, and the expendability of its people. My close friend, V. Jardine and his family would not like to suffer death by radiation poisoning. Again, the comment had nothing to do with anything. Yesterday, AOL's Terms of Service folks suggested that Ishould probably find another community to chat in, because the comments fell within room standards and no changes would be made. Also, a few weeks ago I showed the log of one of the science chats to my former college landlord, a Nobel Prize winner in physics. His comment was, "Why the #@** do you try to share with those people?" Why, indeed. Universe Today is one of the few places left where sharing is what it is mostly about, and people should feel comfortable in asking the questions.

[VanderL]

Wow, abyssalroamer, that's an impressive tale and my guess is that no forum will be free of nastiness. There is one thing that I'm trying to get across during the discussions I'm enjoying here; If people treat you wrong don't stoop to their level but always (try to) stay cool. It's not always easy, but as is evident in some of the threads, when things start to get heated, Fraser is right to pull the plug. It should also be possible for the moderator to tell people to back off sometimes (not necessarily in the forum itself, although I wouldn't mind it if I was told to behave, because sometimes words can be seen as rude while there was no intention).
This topic and some others can contribute to an open and friendly atmosphere, making this forum the best I've seen so far.
Cheers

[Weaselbunny]

Everyone seems to be pretty decent in this topic! Shame you don't encounter so many nice people in the real world.

I think when people are mean it's generally cos there's something wrong with them, they're maybe unhappy or insecure. It sounds like psych babble but it does seem true.

not to say that a person can't overcome bad behaviour, but the roots of that behaviour will never go

Sometimes I think that roots of bad behaviour can lurk in circumstances rather than personality, and that the behaviour can be remedied once the situation is fixed, like (just for example) someone acting out because they think they're not being heard, listen and it'll probably stop.

[QUOTE]Weaselbunny ... YOU don't REALLY believe that, do you? [QUOTE]

Chook, I think I know what you're getting at there buddy! To explain... if I choose to drink in excess, I must also acknowledge that I loose my ability to choose how I behave. Like they say, nothing in life is free, everything has a price! :rolleyes:

Abyssalroamer, sounds like you know soom pretty groovy people! Colour me green! ;)