Q

[John Kierein]

http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~chad/quaoar/

As big as Charon. An oar on the river Styx?

[chris l.]

How do you pronounce 'Quaoar'?

[ToSeek]

On 2002-10-07 11:08, tychobrahe wrote:
How do you pronounce 'Quaoar'?



kwah-o-wahr, according to the website supplied.

[nebularain]

From CNN's (http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/10/07/ice.object/index.html) website:

"The scientific duo named the object Quaoar, pronounced KWAH-o-ar, after the creation god of the Tongva people, a Native American tribe in Southern California. "

[Argos]

On 2002-10-07 11:08, tychobrahe wrote:
How do you pronounce 'Quaoar'?



"The Tongva people (sometimes called the San Gabrielino Native Americans) inhabited the Los Angeles area before the arrival of the Spanish and other European people. The name "Quaoar" (pronounced kwah-o-wahr) comes from their creation mythology."

from the text of the linked page


<font size=-1>[ Oops. I didn't see nebularain's post above]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Argos on 2002-10-07 14:00 ]</font>

[Bob]

If Quaoar is a billion miles farther from the sun than Pluto (4.54 billion mi vs. 3.54 billion mi, don't Kepler's laws require its year to be about 359 yrs instead of the Yahoo-stated year of 288 yrs?

T**2 = k x R**3

[David Hall]

Quaroar seems to have a much more circular orbit than Pluto does. Pluto actually passes from within the orbit of Neptune to outside the orbit of Quaroar.

I wonder what it's inclination is from the ecliptic plane? If it's very close to it then it would actually make a better planetary candidate than Pluto itself.

[DJ]

My question is was this new "sphere" predicted? I.E. where there observations in the orbits of Pluto, Charon, and Neptune that did something that caused us to keep searching for what affected them?

If not, then I submit that Pluto/Charon are the problem, not Qu******. Maybe Pluto/Charon are the interlopers in the solar system...

DJ

[Paul Best]

I wonder how Nancy et all will react to what they will certainly take as the discovery of the "real" planet x.

I wonder why they picked Quaoar, when Persephone, or Rupert would make much better names...

Maybe they should designate the Kuiper belt
the "styx" belt and name everything in it after characters from greco/roman myths about the afterlife.

[Chip]

Hi there,

I also posted a National Geographic news release on this object here (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=2394&forum=2&0).

Here's another story (http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_685653.html) with a
cool "artist's conception" - (which could also stand in for larger Pluto until we get actual pictures.) /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Bob]

I heard an interview on NPR with one of the discovery team members which answered a couple of the above questions:
1. The name of the body is required to be a "creation deity", leaving out Persephone and even Rupert.
2. The discovery was made by brute force sky surveying, not by number crunching perturbations in outer planet orbits.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bob on 2002-10-07 22:49 ]</font>

[Kaptain K]

I wonder what it's inclination is from the ecliptic plane?
Incl - 7.9 deg. Ecc - 0.04

Both better than Pluto!

[GrapesOfWrath]

On 2002-10-07 14:42, David Hall wrote:
I wonder what it's inclination is from the ecliptic plane? If it's very close to it then it would actually make a better planetary candidate than Pluto itself.
Except for it being one sixth the mass of Pluto.

[informant]

Bob wrote:
I heard an interview on NPR with one of the discovery team members which answered a couple of the above questions:
1. The name of the body is required to be a "creation deity", leaving out Persephone and even Rupert.

Why?!

"Pluto" is no creation deity... Nor is "Charon"...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: informant on 2002-10-08 05:51 ]</font>

[Kaptain K]

Why?!

"Pluto" is no creation deity... Nor is "Charon"...
Pluto was named as a planet, not as a KBO. Charon, as ferryman on the river Styx, is the perfect name for its moon.

PS Clyde Tombaugh was employed by Percival Lowell at the time of his discovery of PLuto. Coincidence?

_________________
Be alert! The world needs more lerts.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kaptain K on 2002-10-08 07:48 ]</font>

[GrapesOfWrath]

On 2002-10-08 07:46, Kaptain K wrote:
Clyde Tombaugh was employed by Percival Lowell at the time of his discovery of PLuto. Coincidence?
I don't think it was a coincidence. On the other hand, Lowell was definitely not Tombaugh's employer. Lowell died when Tombaugh was ten.

[Argos]

What a dreadful name was given to this body.

Actually, this is the worst name that has ever been given to a heavenly body.

What's more, Q has nothing to do with creation. Instead, it brings to the mind the idea of movement, elusiveness and the like. Why the hell people can only think of creation when naming planetary bodies?

Maybe Freud explains...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Argos on 2002-10-08 09:20 ]</font>

[informant]

Apparently, it has been agreed to name all Kuiper Belt objects --- except for Pluto and Charon --- after creation deities. I wonder if there are enough creation deities in all the religions of the world...

I agree with Argos, Quaoar looks and sounds odd.

Most objects in the solar system were given names from Greco-Roman myhtology, except for Uranus' moons, and the comets. If you start including other mythologies, you'll end up with a very heterogeneous bunch of names. Not to mention that many of them will be close to unpronounceable.

[heliopause]

On 2002-10-08 08:33, GrapesOfWrath wrote:

On 2002-10-08 07:46, Kaptain K wrote:
Clyde Tombaugh was employed by Percival Lowell at the time of his discovery of PLuto. Coincidence?
I don't think it was a coincidence. On the other hand, Lowell was definitely not Tombaugh's employer. Lowell died when Tombaugh was ten.


Check out the symbol for Pluto. That's definitely in homage of Percival Lowell.

http://www.seds.org/billa/tnp/pluto.html

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: heliopause on 2002-10-08 10:08 ]</font>

[ToSeek]

On 2002-10-08 09:36, informant wrote:
Apparently, it has been agreed to name all Kuiper Belt objects --- except for Pluto and Charon --- after creation deities. I wonder if there are enough creation deities in all the religions of the world...

I agree with Argos, Quaoar looks and sounds odd.

Most objects in the solar system were given names from Greco-Roman mythology, except for Uranus' moons, and the comets. If you start including other mythologies, you'll end up with a very heterogeneous bunch of names. Not to mention that many of them will be close to unpronounceable.



While I find the name odd, I applaud the effort to expand the source of names beyond Western civilization. And if you're so concerned about running out of names of creation deities, shouldn't you be even more concerned about running out of Greco-Roman names (particularly since so many of them have already been used)?

In any case, there are plenty of asteroids with other than Greco-Roman names (http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/MPNames.html).

[ToSeek]

On 2002-10-08 05:50, informant wrote:

"Pluto" is no creation deity... Nor is "Charon"...



There's ample historical precedent for exceptions that predate an established policy: Trojan asteroids at L4 are named after Greeks, while ones at L5 are named after Trojans (both from the Iliad), except for Hektor (a Trojan), which is at L4. All the geographic elements on Venus have female names, except for Maxwell Montes.

More trivia: I just learned from this page (http://www.swisr.org/col5.html) that asteroids with orbits wholly inside the Earth's are usually given Egyptian names, while those with orbits just outside the Earth's are given Aztec or Inca names.

The origin of the name for asteroid 3142, Kilopi, is left as an exercise for the reader. Math majors have an advantage. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

_________________
"... to strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, Ulysses

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ToSeek on 2002-10-08 11:07 ]</font>

[ToSeek]

The official HST press release on Quaoar (http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/PR/2002/17/index.html)

NASA science coverage (http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/07oct_newworld.htm)

_________________
"... to strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, Ulysses

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ToSeek on 2002-10-08 11:09 ]</font>

[informant]

ToSeek wrote:

While I find the name odd, I applaud the effort to expand the source of names beyond Western civilization. And if you're so concerned about running out of names of creation deities, shouldn't you be even more concerned about running out of Greco-Roman names (particularly since so many of them have already been used)?

Only the largest/most important astral bodies are given names. Many just have codes.

In any case, there are plenty of asteroids with other than Greco-Roman names.

Point taken. I’m kind of getting used to “Quaoar”, to be honest. Although it would have been a nice homage to Arthur C. Clarke to name it “Persephone”…

More trivia: I just learned from this page that asteroids with orbits wholly inside the Earth's are usually given Egyptian names, while those with orbits just outside the Earth's are given Aztec or Inca names.

In that case, it does make a lot of sense to use American Indian names for KB objects.
(Although I’m sure Sitchin’s fans would prefer Sumerian names such as, oh, I don’t know, Nibiru? LOL! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)

[ToSeek]

On 2002-10-08 12:21, informant wrote:
(Although I’m sure Sitchin’s fans would prefer Sumerian names such as, oh, I don’t know, Nibiru? LOL! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)



Oh, that would be cool, to use names from Sumerian mythology for the Kuiper Belt objects!

[Kaptain K]

I don't think it was a coincidence. On the other hand, Lowell was definitely not Tombaugh's employer. Lowell died when Tombaugh was ten.
I stand corrected.

[Bob]

After Tombaugh's discovery in 1930, Lowell Observatory had a contest to name the new planet. "Pluto" was submitted by 11 year old Venetia Burney of England.

[Doodler]

[/quote]

The origin of the name for asteroid 3142, Kilopi, is left as an exercise for the reader. Math majors have an advantage. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[/quote]

How cute, and me with no head for numbers.

[GrapesOfWrath]

On 2002-10-08 14:25, Bob wrote:
After Tombaugh's discovery in 1930, Lowell Observatory had a contest to name the new planet. "Pluto" was submitted by 11 year old Venetia Burney of England.

I hadn't heard about a contest. Are you sure? Burney was the granddaughter of an
astronomer at Oxford University, apparently.

Still, I'm pretty certain that the PL was in homage of Lowell. Tombaugh was employed at Lowell, but not by Lowell. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Argos]

On 2002-10-08 12:50, ToSeek wrote:
Oh, that would be cool, to use names from Sumerian mythology for the Kuiper Belt objects!


I would suggest including the Amazon lore deities. Since there's approximately 100 different indian nations in the Amazonia, we'll have plenty of deities to name asteroids after.

(*)The supreme one: Tupan, the god-sun. That's a cool name.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Argos on 2002-10-08 15:32 ]</font>

[Jim]

The origin of the name for asteroid 3142, Kilopi, is left as an exercise for the reader. Math majors have an advantage. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif


What, still no takers?

Okay, try this:
3142,
kilo-pi,
and round up.

[Bob]

[quote]

What, still no takers?

Okay, try this:
3142,
kilo-pi,
and round up.

I thought your question was rhetorical because the answer is so obvious. Or is it? The discoverer of object 2718 chose "Handley" over "kiloe." Pride triumphs over cute?

[heliopause]

On 2002-10-08 14:25, Bob wrote:
After Tombaugh's discovery in 1930, Lowell Observatory had a contest to name the new planet. "Pluto" was submitted by 11 year old Venetia Burney of England.


You are correct,sir!

As found here: http://www.seds.org/billa/tnp/hypo.html#plutonames

The naming of Pluto is a story by itself. Early suggestions of the name of the new planet were: Atlas, Zymal, Artemis, Perseus, Vulcan, Tantalus, Idana, Cronus. The New York Times suggested Minerva, reporters suggested Osiris, Bacchus, Apollo, Erebus. Lowell's widow suggested Zeus, but later changed her mind to Constance. Many people suggested the planet be named Lowell. The staff of the Flagstaff observatory, where Pluto was discovered, suggested Cronus, Minerva, and Pluto. A few months later the planet was officially named Pluto. The name Pluto was originally suggested by Venetia Burney, an 11-year-old schoolgirl in Oxford, England.

[nebularain]

On 2002-10-08 23:30, Bob wrote:

What, still no takers?

Okay, try this:
3142,
kilo-pi,
and round up.

I thought your question was rhetorical because the answer is so obvious. Or is it?

No, it wasn't. I just now got it after staring at it for a couple minutes, once I understood that it was supposed to be a joke. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_redface.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Doodler]

On 2002-10-08 23:30, Bob wrote:
[quote]

What, still no takers?

Okay, try this:
3142,
kilo-pi,
and round up.

I thought your question was rhetorical because the answer is so obvious. Or is it? The discoverer of object 2718 chose "Handley" over "kiloe." Pride triumphs over cute?


Hey, I got it, read my post prior to yours again! I didn't wanna give the answer out to everyone.

[David Hall]

I couldn't quite figure out the "kilo" part at first. But I just now realized, move the decimal over 3 places (multiply by 1000).

Very cute.

[Bob]

It is ironic that Clyde Tombaugh was dismissed from Lowell Observatory in 1946, 16 years after his discovery and while he was still a young man. I wonder if he would have been so sensitive to the "Pluto - Pervival Lowell - Lowell Observatory" connections if he had known he would ultimately be given a pink slip.

[nebularain]

Hey, this animation of "Q" is pretty nifty:

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap021009.html

(Of course, I don't know why they call it an "asteroid"?)

[GrapesOfWrath]

On 2002-10-09 01:48, heliopause wrote:
You are correct,sir!

As found here: http://www.seds.org/billa/tnp/hypo.html#plutonames
I dunno--that still doesn't mention a contest of any sort. Anybody have any reference?

[Ilya]

Asteroid 9000 is named Hal.

[ToSeek]

On 2002-10-09 21:42, GrapesOfWrath wrote:

On 2002-10-09 01:48, heliopause wrote:
You are correct,sir!

As found here: http://www.seds.org/billa/tnp/hypo.html#plutonames
I dunno--that still doesn't mention a contest of any sort. Anybody have any reference?


This (http://collaboratory.nunet.net/waters/theplanets.html) is the ONLY online reference I've found to a contest. There are numerous mentions of 11-year-old Venetia Burney making the suggestion, however. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=naming+pluto+venetia+burney&btnG=Google+Search)

[Doodler]

I read in there about some phantom objects seen out there. Any chance those were incidental sightings of KBOs?

[heliopause]

On 2002-10-10 14:49, ToSeek wrote:

This (http://collaboratory.nunet.net/waters/theplanets.html) is the ONLY online reference I've found to a contest.


I wonder who compiled the data on that site. It contains some glaring inaccuracies. In reference to Mercury, the author says "It’s about 1,250 feet away from the sun." Eek! No wonder Mercury's so hard to see...it's a quarter mile away from the sun! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[Bob]

Venetia Burney named Pluto.
Henry Madan named Phobos and Deimos.
Venetia Burney was Henry Madan's niece.

[heliopause]

On 2002-10-10 15:11, heliopause wrote:

On 2002-10-10 14:49, ToSeek wrote:

This (http://collaboratory.nunet.net/waters/theplanets.html) is the ONLY online reference I've found to a contest.

I wonder who compiled the data on that site. It contains some glaring inaccuracies. In reference to Mercury, the author says "It’s about 1,250 feet away from the sun." Eek! No wonder Mercury's so hard to see...it's a quarter mile away from the sun! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif

Good God! Reading that site is great if you need a side splitting laugh. I'm assuming it was a young child who wrote the descriptions.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: heliopause on 2002-10-10 15:28 ]</font>

[David Hall]

On 2002-10-10 15:25, heliopause wrote:

Good God! Reading that site is great if you need a side splitting laugh. I'm assuming it was a young child who wrote the descriptions.


It looks like your assumption was pretty much correct. It apparently was a class project of some kind.

http://collaboratory.nunet.net/waters/aboutproject.html

[GrapesOfWrath]

On 2002-10-10 15:11, Bob wrote:
Venetia Burney named Pluto.
Henry Madan named Phobos and Deimos.
Venetia Burney was Henry Madan's niece.

So, you're thinking, maybe, <font size=-1>conspiracy</font>?

[Bob]

On 2002-10-11 08:34, GrapesOfWrath wrote:

On 2002-10-10 15:11, Bob wrote:
Venetia Burney named Pluto.
Henry Madan named Phobos and Deimos.
Venetia Burney was Henry Madan's niece.

So, you're thinking, maybe, <font size=-1>conspiracy</font>?


I'm thinking this is great and that truth is stranger than fiction. You couldn't make up stuff like this.

[GrapesOfWrath]

Naw, the way I heard the story (which doesn't seem to be available on the internet) is that she was allowed to name the planet because she was the niece--not because she won a contest.

[Donnie B.]

Actually, the naming of Pluto was the first great coup in the global domination plot by the Disney corporation.

Yep, things are progressing nicely... /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[heliopause]

On 2002-10-11 20:17, Donnie B. wrote:
Actually, the naming of Pluto was the first great coup in the global domination plot by the Disney corporation.

Yep, things are progressing nicely... /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

What a coincidence! The IAU has just announced the following planetary name changes:
Mercury = Bashful
Venus = Sneezy
Mars = Happy
Jupiter = Doc
Saturn = Grumpy
Uranus = Sleepy
Neptune = Dopey

[GrapesOfWrath]

And guest starring the moon as Snow White.

[Kaptain K]

The Sun has been renamed Walt.

[GrapesOfWrath]

That only leaves Disney World. I guess that works.

[Jetmech0417]

The origin of the name for asteroid 3142, Kilopi, is left as an exercise for the reader. Math majors have an advantage.


1000 x 3.142 = 3142
Just wondering if that's the reason, ToSeek.

[ToSeek]

On 2002-10-12 14:01, Jetmech0417 wrote:
The origin of the name for asteroid 3142, Kilopi, is left as an exercise for the reader. Math majors have an advantage.


1000 x 3.142 = 3142
Just wondering if that's the reason, ToSeek.


I believe so.

_________________
"... to strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson, Ulysses

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ToSeek on 2002-10-12 14:03 ]</font>

[Gsquare]

On 2002-10-07 14:42, David Hall wrote:
Quaroar seems to have a much more circular orbit than Pluto does. Pluto actually passes from within the orbit of Neptune to outside the orbit of Quaroar.

I wonder what it's inclination is from the ecliptic plane? If it's very close to it then it would actually make a better planetary candidate than Pluto itself.



Good point David,
I would call it a planet, especially after seeing the low incl.& ecc., (provided by Kaptain K). If it had been discovered in the 50's it would undoubtably be called a planet.

Hey, maybe even...... Planet X !! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gsquare on 2002-10-14 12:57 ]</font>

[Gsquare]

Still, I'm pretty certain that the PL was in homage of Lowell. Tombaugh was employed at Lowell, but not by Lowell. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif


Hmmm, yea....makes me wonder about another strange discovery. Ever notice the PL in PLanet X ? .... I figured Percival Lowell was behind this!! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

G^2



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gsquare on 2002-10-14 13:22 ]</font>

[Gsquare]

On 2002-10-07 14:07, Bob wrote:
If Quaoar is a billion miles farther from the sun than Pluto (4.54 billion mi vs. 3.54 billion mi, don't Kepler's laws require its year to be about 359 yrs instead of the Yahoo-stated year of 288 yrs?



Very astute of you, Bob. It seems your question was never answered. You are correct; the orbital period actually given (~ 285 yrs.) by the discoverer/author of the post would actually be far too short IF the "mean orbital distance" of Quaoar was 1 billion miles farther than that of Pluto.

Usually, planetary distances are quoted as 'mean orbital distances'.
Apparently, this author is using the current distance. You can see this under the heading "How far away is Quaoar ?" where he says Pluto and Neptune are both about 30 A.U. from earth. Q is 42 AU. from us. Obviously current.

Kepler's equation is equally valid for eccentric orbits as for circular simply by substituting the semi-major axis for radius.
As such, working backward from a period of 285 yrs. gives a 'mean' orbital radius for planet Q only about 10% greater than that of Pluto, which is probably the correct figure.

G^2


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gsquare on 2002-10-14 17:25 ]</font>

[Spare Time Continuum]

Here's another story (http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_685653.html) with a
cool "artist's conception"


From that link: "The find further supports the growing belief that Pluto itself is a Kuiper belt object. If true, Pluto can no longer be considered a true planet."

/me gets up and does a little dance of triumph:)

[cigarette_repairman]

From http://www.smh.com.au/cgi-bin/common/popupPrintArticle.pl?path=/articles/2002/10/08/1033538897644.html
None of them, however, are likely to be labelled planets, and even Pluto may lose that privilege from the powers-that-be.

"I think the International Astronomical Union are trying to get their nerve up on this (Pluto)," said Professor Taylor.
I don't like this, not even a little bit. They are considering demoting Pluto? I am still sore over when our local video store "See-Zee Video" changed its name to "Premier Home Video" back in '88 http://www.jp3d.net/yahoo/images/new/12.gif

[Colt]

Pluto-Charon need to be either redesignated a binary planet or be nuked into oblivion. From here on we should also refer "Quaoar" as Quart; everyone can spell it and it is pronouncable. Calling it "Q" might confuse people with Q, from ST. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif


^^ Nonsensical rambling, except perhaps the Quart part. -Colt