Radio Telescopes

[EagleUK]

Can anyone offer advice on how to get started with radio astronomy at home?

I'm looking for good books, articles, and URLs, as well as any advice that other members might have. I would like to understand what can be done on a limited budget, and how an amateur might contribute to the general body of knowledge, much like amateur comet watchers do.

Thanks in advance...

EagleUK

[damienpaul]

Here is a website with a tonne of links:

http://search-info.com/search/engine/index...adio_Astronomy/ (http://search-info.com/search/engine/index/Science/Astronomy/Amateur/Radio_Astronomy/)

i hope this helps

[Bluewolf027]

Eagle here are a few links for some good info on radio telescopes

http://my.integritynet.com.au/purdic/radio...o-telescope.htm (http://my.integritynet.com.au/purdic/radio-telescope.htm)
http://www.signalone.com/radioastronomy/telescope/
http://www.nitehawk.com/rasmit/ws1_4.html

Here is a company that sells kits
http://radiojove.gsfc.nasa.gov/

I have more bookmarked on my other PC but can't get to them right now. If you search for 'amateur radio telescope' on google.com or yahoo.com you'll probably find some more. I know of another company that sell really nice kits but I can't remember the url.

Regards

[TheAstronomer]

Care to try some home brew?

Those of you who know me well also know that I am fascinated with every aspect of astronomy and more than willing to experiment with any type of equipment. For the last year or so, it has been an on-going project of mine to perfect radio meteor listening.

Have I cracked? Not hardly, brothers... This is a simple techinque using simple equipment, and the results have been outstanding!

My first experience was during the second Leonid "storm". (we all remember the first, don't we? ;)) As you may recall, it was raining that night and I was very disappointed that we wouldn't get to see such a spectacular showing. Cruising the internet in hopes of finding a "live" broadcast (that I didn't have to pay for...), I started running into articles on how to do your own radio meteor listening. One that came highly recommended was using a television set and antenna! As luck would have it, I had a television antenna a recent tornado uprooted, and an old television in the garage slated for disposal. Could this work? Why the heck not try it?

So, by running the cable to the TV set, balancing the antenna on an aluminum chaise lounge frame and turning the volume up to full blast (who cares if the horizontal hold is dead?) I recorded my very first meteor sounds by using my video camera as a recorder.

Holy Corvus! This stuff's for real!

Of course, there is a lot of reverberation in my beginning recordings caused by the fact the set was on full blast and echoing in the garage... But what an incredible capture! (and lord help me if any of the neighbors saw me sitting in the garage in the middle of the night listening to static at extinction level... worse yet recording it with a video camera. ;))

The next day I immediately contacted a computer wiz friend and co-astronomer who also belongs to SETI. Confirmation is the name of the game. Converting the "sounds" I had recording into electronic data, we compared it to other known meteor recordings.

Paydirt.

After that, I was hooked. But the time had come to dispose of the junky lawn chair and get rid of the broken television. I had heard, and read, that better results come from using an FM antenna and a "dead" frequency. Very quickly, the radio went from listening to rock and roll during observing sessions - to listening to meteors. I gotta' tell ya', it's really amazing to be outside observing and catch a random as well as "hear" its' signature squeal! Although I make no attempt to record these sounds while observing... It works.

My next opportunity for a clouded-out meteor shower came with the Geminids. And once again? I am on it. The huge, old fashioned speakers in the garage rock out all the subtle tones and reverberations with ease. And all it takes? Is just enough video footage to capture that sound...

And capture it I did.

Again, I couldn't have been more pleased. When the 2004 season rolled around and we were due for the Quadrantids? You got it. Clouded out. Now I've got another situation to deal with... It's blazing cold out there as well. Can I step this into another level? Why not! It's all in where the antenna is positioned... Not the receiver. So, running the feed line back into the house, I connected it with the surround sound system and placed the tuner on a non-used frequency. Nada. Nothing but static.

I gave up and went to bed, but reset my alarm clock for the expected peak around 4:00 a.m. When I turned the receiver on, I was blown away! Snatches of all different types of radio programs, (since when do you hear jazz, rock and roll and country and western on the same station? doesn't happen.) along with those signature tones I've come to know and love! The very best of these is a long, low key, very bass thrum... Unfortunately for surround sound, those tones come out of other speakers, but I was willing to try to record it with the video camera on the one that sends out the most tones:

Quadrantid 1 (http://members.tripod.com/~theastronomer/meteors/quad1.wav)

Of course, being blonde I realize entirely too late the system has a built in cassette recorder and I could have easily and cheaply recorded the whole event... But hey! I'm not giving up.

Quadrantid 2 (http://members.tripod.com/~theastronomer/meteors/quad2.wav)

Now that's more like it! At least using the video camera I can listen and well as see a counter so I can play back the recordings for archive purposes. One more before I go?

Quadrantid 3 (http://members.tripod.com/~theastronomer/meteors/quad3.wav)

As you can see, radio astronomy isn't just for the scientists! It's something YOU, too, can do with ease... And it is not dependent on a dark sky site, nor even clear skies!

Try it yourself!!

Rockin' the Night,

~T

(i know this isn't the links and perhaps not the type of equipment you were looking for... but it is incredibily easy, and almost everyone has an FM radio. all you need is an good external antenna. my attempts and my recordings are strictly amateur, but it does show what you can do with the most ordinary of things. yep. it's nothing more than capturing meteor scatter, but if think i'll just go stand quietly in the corner and keep listenin' in... ;))

[galaxygirl]

How could someone build a small radio telescope?

[Littlemews]

If you got a Antenna, and u put it on ur television without ur cable line, u might see snows all around ur screen :lol: I once hear my Prof. talk about this before, and this is how they detect the CMB as well, I guess...
:lol: I hope this website help you :
http://web.haystack.mit.edu/SRT/

[Planetwatcher]

For a radio telescope you need a little more then a TV antenna, and TV.
For starters, you need a parabolic antenna, (that is a bowl shaped antenna).
A TV satelite dish will work on some frequencies if you have a pretty big one.
You need to know what frequency or frequencies you want to work with.
Then the antenna part of the dish, (the stick like object in the center) has to be an even numbered fraction of the wave length or a multiple of it.

For example a 2 meter frequency means the antenna should be 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, or 1/16 of 2 meters. Or it can be 2 meters (a full wave) 4 meters, (2 waves), or 8 meters. At this frequency your dish will have to be at least 8 meters accross to be effective. The dish diameter has to be at least 4 times your wave length, and you can't skimp on it. However you can make up the difference on longer wave lengths by using 2 or more antennas with dishes which are ideally a whole number multiple apart in physical distance.
An actual connection called co-facing is best, but several antennas on the same frequency will work as well.

Next you need your radio reciever, and you need to decide if you want to monitor A.M. (ampltude modulation), F.M. (frequency modulation), a sideband, or something entirly different.

You will want a recieving ampifier (sort of like volune control) and filtering to keep from receiving unwanted transmissions.
You will likely want a deviced called an ociliscope which examines deviations in wave form so that you know when you have something out of the ordinary.

Then you need to know which way you want to point the antenna, which means learning Right Assension and Declination to get your object position, and crossing that with asmuth to coordenate your cestrial latitude and longitude.

Then there is knowing the objects proper motion which is how fast and what direction it moves and making your antenna move accordingly.

Having all that will give you only the most rudenmentry basics for radio astronomy.
If your not discoraged by now, you may have what it takes to one day become a radio astronomer.
There is a lot more to it then that even. Years and years of college and hard work, with at least 4 different degrees in math alone. And that's before you take a single astronomy course.

Such rigorious training and knowledge is what detours many serious would-be radio astronomers, and astronomers alike, but if you have the gumtion to stick with it, and an apitude for numbers you have a chance. Best of luck.

[Manchurian Taikonaut]

There are a good few pages on the net


these guys had some articles on Radio Astronomy

http://www.tass-survey.org/

try this one Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers

http://www.qsl.net/SARA

Another web page on radio telescopes

http://www.signalone.com/radioastronomy/te...escope/agc.html (http://www.signalone.com/radioastronomy/telescope/agc.html)

this site has much information

http://www.nitehawk.com/rasmit/ws1_4.html

there are some links on this website


http://www.draco.scsu.edu/radioastro.html

[ctr]

heres another Radio Astronomy site http://radiojove.gsfc.nasa.gov/office/kit_requests.htm


Hope this helps

ctr

[Tom2Mars]

Cool! Thanks CTR! I've been interested in this.

[Bunhia]

Originally posted by galaxygirl@Apr 11 2004, 07:42 PM
How could someone build a small radio telescope?
:D :D :D It's fun :D :D :D
Astronomers and scientists are working on a big project about Radio Telescope. They try to make a Square Kilometre Array ( and in here, galaxygirl wants to make a small telescope, >< ah hihihi)
The information about SKA could be found in here: SKA (http://www.skatelescope.org/index850.html)

[Tom2Mars]

Bunhia,

I believe part of a discussion at the time, was how to organize a lot of small radiotelescopes into a very large array, such as the one you are referring to. The difference is, that instead of a very costly, single-function scientific instrument as the goal, a large array could be implemented by adding a small amount of receiver technology to each of several thousand, tracking-style photovoltaic concentrator arrays which were planned for a large community of homes. Dual-Use technology.

I believe GalaxyGirl was interested in exploring practical and cost-effective solutions at a time when science budgets are at risk. B)

[damienpaul]

we have a project for our students where they build a crude radio telescope out of a short wave radio where i work...interestin stuff!

However I would appreciate information regarding improved simple designs and ways to interpret our results.

[galaxygirl]

Just merged the "Radio Astronomy" thread with "Radio Astronomy for Amateurs" which was started a while ago. The links provided in the begining of this newly merged thread can be of help to anyone interested in radio telescopes.

[Lomitus]

Hey Folks,
I know I'm a little late catching up with this thread, but I have a question that has bothered me for a while about this....

Ok, I know with stuff like "SETI" they use the radio telescopes for listening for recognizable signals (I think their aproach is wrong, but thats a topic for a different thread). I'm also aware that you can hear stuff like meteors as was mentioned before. Now beyond that....and I don't mean to be terribly blunt here, but what is the purpose of radio astronomy? I mean yea, listening to meteor's is cool, but what purpose does it serve? What other uses are there for radio astronomy? I'm sure I'm missing something here and I'm sure it's something big, but I'm not sure I really "get it".

From there, I also wonder how do you know "what" to listen for...if your using something such as the previously mentioned TV or radio receiver, how do you know your not just hearing some kind of back ground noise (unless your visually confirming something like the meteor shower) and how do you know what frequencies to listen too?

I will certainly check out all the links in this thread when I have time, but could anyone give me a "nut shell" version of the answers to my questions?

I know...some big questions there :D
Thanks!
Bright Blessings and Gentle Breezes,
Jim

[galaxygirl]

What other uses are there for radio astronomy?

Radio astronomy is used for showing us things that have longer wavelengths than visible light (usually radio and micro waves). This can be useful in detecting things like interstellar medium, which dosent have enough energy to be seen in the optical wavelength band. It does that by searching for neutral hydrogen (found in interltellar medium) under a certain frequency, and can be better explained here (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap961218.html).

From there, I also wonder how do you know "what" to listen for...if your using something such as the previously mentioned TV or radio receiver, how do you know your not just hearing some kind of back ground noise (unless your visually confirming something like the meteor shower) and how do you know what frequencies to listen too?

Most radio astronomers dont "listen" for anything, since anything you'd be looking for would give off too weak a signal, so computers do the job for you. Some things that astronomers look for have a constant frequency (like the neutral hydrogen), so they'd set it to that.

This (http://www.ieee-virtual-museum.org/collection/tech.php?taid=&id=2345895&lid=1) site is pretty good at describing how they work and what their main uses are.

[zephyr46]

http://www.pari.edu/sgra/index.html

I have never got this link to work,(I think you have to run a Java package), but it is supposed to be a small radio telescope that you can use over the net.

http://www.pari.edu/sgra/index.html

The telescope is called SMILEY, which is pretty cute for a radio telescope if you ask me!

I am facinated by the galactic center so, this school wins it for me as far as names go.

[Manchurian Taikonaut]

Here are some links
http://radio.uindy.edu/radio/cheap.htm
http://apwww.stmarys.ca/~lonc/radiotel.html
http://my.integritynet.com.au/purdic/radio...o-telescope.htm (http://my.integritynet.com.au/purdic/radio-telescope.htm)


:D


http://www.nrao.edu/whatisra/hist_reber.shtml
http://web.axelero.hu/ha5shf01/HA5SHF/HA5SHF.htm
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/chrish/radio-met.htm

:)

[vet]

Originally posted by TheAstronomer@Jan 28 2004, 09:16 PM
Care to try some home brew?

Those of you who know me well also know that I am fascinated with every aspect of astronomy and more than willing to experiment with any type of equipment. For the last year or so, it has been an on-going project of mine to perfect radio meteor listening.

Have I cracked? Not hardly, brothers... This is a simple techinque using simple equipment, and the results have been outstanding!

My first experience was during the second Leonid "storm". (we all remember the first, don't we? ;)) As you may recall, it was raining that night and I was very disappointed that we wouldn't get to see such a spectacular showing. Cruising the internet in hopes of finding a "live" broadcast (that I didn't have to pay for...), I started running into articles on how to do your own radio meteor listening. One that came highly recommended was using a television set and antenna! As luck would have it, I had a television antenna a recent tornado uprooted, and an old television in the garage slated for disposal. Could this work? Why the heck not try it?

So, by running the cable to the TV set, balancing the antenna on an aluminum chaise lounge frame and turning the volume up to full blast (who cares if the horizontal hold is dead?) I recorded my very first meteor sounds by using my video camera as a recorder.

Holy Corvus! This stuff's for real!

Of course, there is a lot of reverberation in my beginning recordings caused by the fact the set was on full blast and echoing in the garage... But what an incredible capture! (and lord help me if any of the neighbors saw me sitting in the garage in the middle of the night listening to static at extinction level... worse yet recording it with a video camera. ;))

The next day I immediately contacted a computer wiz friend and co-astronomer who also belongs to SETI. Confirmation is the name of the game. Converting the "sounds" I had recording into electronic data, we compared it to other known meteor recordings.

Paydirt.

After that, I was hooked. But the time had come to dispose of the junky lawn chair and get rid of the broken television. I had heard, and read, that better results come from using an FM antenna and a "dead" frequency. Very quickly, the radio went from listening to rock and roll during observing sessions - to listening to meteors. I gotta' tell ya', it's really amazing to be outside observing and catch a random as well as "hear" its' signature squeal! Although I make no attempt to record these sounds while observing... It works.

My next opportunity for a clouded-out meteor shower came with the Geminids. And once again? I am on it. The huge, old fashioned speakers in the garage rock out all the subtle tones and reverberations with ease. And all it takes? Is just enough video footage to capture that sound...

And capture it I did.

Again, I couldn't have been more pleased. When the 2004 season rolled around and we were due for the Quadrantids? You got it. Clouded out. Now I've got another situation to deal with... It's blazing cold out there as well. Can I step this into another level? Why not! It's all in where the antenna is positioned... Not the receiver. So, running the feed line back into the house, I connected it with the surround sound system and placed the tuner on a non-used frequency. Nada. Nothing but static.

I gave up and went to bed, but reset my alarm clock for the expected peak around 4:00 a.m. When I turned the receiver on, I was blown away! Snatches of all different types of radio programs, (since when do you hear jazz, rock and roll and country and western on the same station? doesn't happen.) along with those signature tones I've come to know and love! The very best of these is a long, low key, very bass thrum... Unfortunately for surround sound, those tones come out of other speakers, but I was willing to try to record it with the video camera on the one that sends out the most tones:

Quadrantid 1 (http://members.tripod.com/~theastronomer/meteors/quad1.wav)

Of course, being blonde I realize entirely too late the system has a built in cassette recorder and I could have easily and cheaply recorded the whole event... But hey! I'm not giving up.

Quadrantid 2 (http://members.tripod.com/~theastronomer/meteors/quad2.wav)

Now that's more like it! At least using the video camera I can listen and well as see a counter so I can play back the recordings for archive purposes. One more before I go?

Quadrantid 3 (http://members.tripod.com/~theastronomer/meteors/quad3.wav)

As you can see, radio astronomy isn't just for the scientists! It's something YOU, too, can do with ease... And it is not dependent on a dark sky site, nor even clear skies!

Try it yourself!!

Rockin' the Night,

~T

(i know this isn't the links and perhaps not the type of equipment you were looking for... but it is incredibily easy, and almost everyone has an FM radio. all you need is an good external antenna. my attempts and my recordings are strictly amateur, but it does show what you can do with the most ordinary of things. yep. it's nothing more than capturing meteor scatter, but if think i'll just go stand quietly in the corner and keep listenin' in... ;))
re:simplication---sounds like someone remembers the sky&tel article on 'meteor-listenging'. sky publishing sells reprints on specific areas for cheap/vs. time. the article is not arcane or intimidating to total beginners---'turn your fm radio into a metor detector'--that will probably pin down the reprint of your cuuent use and need.

radio astronomy is a rich 'amateur' field---i see adds in local classified for 'old' big sat tv receiver antennea for free---you haul! if radio astronomy is your interest---

i put this space for emphasis---those ads are essentially the same as a 'visual' astronomer seeing ads reading ''haul away my 6-9 meter cassegrain relector!'
you won't ever see that, but for radio amateurs/ hams/ astronomers---a golden oppotunity to 'step-up' from an fm antenna Exsist, at what would cost a 'visual' astronomer one big forune---for free---uprade city.

i have not looked, but am sure you will find radio-astronomer sites, groups---they may assist you, as well as the American Radio Relay League. serious work may be done with these 'throw-away' dishes. what you may do is only a 'search' away.