Why the commotion?

[Superstring]

Sorry if I sound so arrogant...but...

Ok after reading several articles over the past year and using some common sense of my own, I am fairly confident there IS a large gas giant or brown dwarf well beyond the orbit of Pluto. Of course, if there is one it almost certainly did not originate within the planetary nebula, and it would be a very slow mover being far from the Sun.

Now I have been hearing all this talk about Nibiru coming to sweep by earth in 2003. Now I am not well informed on this whole concept, but where is the PROOF this will happen? I understand the summerians think they saw it and then somehow realized it would come again next year. My problem is that I do not see how it is possible for such a massive object can travel in such an elliptical orbit. The intense gravitational force of the Sun should not allow for a large object to travel in an orbit similar to the comet.

Furthermore, and there has already been note of this, that Nibiru will have to travel at am alarmingly rapid pace to reach Earth by May. That's another thing that to me doesn't make any sense; the planet drifts around the outer fringes of the solar system, then comes swinging inward like a bullet. That is a bit far-fetched if you ask me.

Again, I apologize if I'm being arrogant. Basically what I'm trying to say is I will not be convinced of this Nibiru thing until there is a large amount of scientific evidence that it will happen.

[GrapesOfWrath]

On 2002-10-26 09:29, Superstring wrote:
The intense gravitational force of the Sun should not allow for a large object to travel in an orbit similar to the comet.
Is that from common sense, or an article somewhere? I'd like to read that article, if you have a reference.

That's another thing that to me doesn't make any sense; the planet drifts around the outer fringes of the solar system, then comes swinging inward like a bullet. That is a bit far-fetched if you ask me.
Quite a bit faster than a bullet, yes.

[Superstring]

Common sense I suppose. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif We're talking about a huge gas giant here; When the 4 giants we know today formed, they probably all started out with chaotic orbits too, only through time they gradually settled in a more even path. When this mystery planet was captured, it was put in an orbit so far from the sun that its movement ended up very slow. But what mechanism could swing it inward and back more than once at an arithmetic sequence?? This is where I have my big doubts on Nibiru.

[GrapesOfWrath]

On 2002-10-26 11:15, Superstring wrote:
Common sense I suppose. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif We're talking about a huge gas giant here; When the 4 giants we know today formed, they probably all started out with chaotic orbits too, only through time they gradually settled in a more even path. When this mystery planet was captured, it was put in an orbit so far from the sun that its movement ended up very slow. But what mechanism could swing it inward and back more than once at an arithmetic sequence??
It would seem like a straightforward application of Newtonian physics, to me. Check out BA's article (http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/news/geosynch.html), wherein are mentioned Molniya orbits. Highly elliptical orbits will swing very far away from the primary, and move extremely slow while out there, and then will "swoop" in very close, moving quickly while close in.

[Superstring]

Yeah I understand that. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif IF this planet had such an elliptical orbit a faster motion inward would occur. What I don't understand is WHY a large body would end up in such an elliptical orbit. Though physics isn't my thing, so maybe I'm missing something.

[GrapesOfWrath]

If two bodies in space are held motionaless, and released, gravity will pull them straight towards each other. However, if one of them has any motion whatsoever away from that line between them, they will orbit each other and not collide. The only time that they will not continue to orbit is if, in their closest approach, the distance between them is less than the sum of their radiuses. Friction, atmospheric or lithospheric, will cause the orbit to decay, but barring that, the orbit could continue on forever. Two huge bodies could miss each other by inches.

Add another body (or two or three) to the mix, and things change, and OK, yeah, the tides and the Roche limit will come into play...but still--the principle is there.

[Superstring]

Well it does make sense. Though that doesn't really confirm the existence of Nibiru IMO, we still need more proof. I still have my doubts, but we shall find out in May...

[Kaptain K]

My problem is that I do not see how it is possible for such a massive object can travel in such an elliptical orbit. The intense gravitational force of the Sun should not allow for a large object to travel in an orbit similar to the comet.

The mass of the object is irrelevant to the orbital mechanics.

[Superstring]

On 2002-10-26 15:20, Kaptain K wrote:
The mass of the object is irrelevant to the orbital mechanics.



Not really, at least in a few extents. An asteroid with a highly elliptical orbit is easier to accept than a Jupiter-sized planet with a highly elliptical orbit. If a massive gas giant forms within the primordal nebula, chances are it will end up with an orbit that's not significantly elliptical. Asteroids, on the other hand, have such low masses that it is easier for them to end up in elliptical orbits (sometimes by encounters with larger objects). If a large planet is captured from elsewhere, then MAYBE it will have such an elliptical orbit. Thus I guess it is possible such a planet like Nibiru exists; we don't have any solid proof it does though. Just my 2 cents worth.

_________________
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
--Albert Einstein

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Superstring on 2002-10-26 15:49 ]</font>

[dschon]

What I'd like to know is where the exact date of May 15, 2003 for The Collision was calculated...certainly not by the top astrophysics teams.