Synta Now Owns Celestron

[Dave Mitsky]

Now that the Chinese own SCT technology Meade's days may be numbered.

http://www.celestron.com/news/index.htm

Dave Mitsky

[wstevenbrown]

the long and expensive litigation initiated by its US competitor made it more difficult for the company to meet customer demands

The Chinese are well-known for their attention to detail, and a willingness to follow through on a long and difficult course of action. :) S

[slotdrag]

It may not be a bad thing. The two have done bussiness togehter for years. Im looking forward to see what comes out of this partnership. Celestron has a great reputation and customer relations, Now to show there power and make great scopes at even beter prices for use poor folks. Well my 2 cents worth. What do you all think ?.

[SilverWing]

Hi all. I reallly am quite sad about this because where are all Celestron's products going to go? I like the name Celestron too. You may think that I am kind of petty and I know that it may be for the bettering of products but I will miss the good old Celestron telescope.

A Sad and Sorry SilverWing

[vet]

Wow, should have read this one 1st. i've been out of the loop so long---did those funky 6" objectives come from Taiwan? sounds like it---i never asked Celestron, or other suppliers. The People's Republic is so 'full-throtle' on amateur astronomy, i assumed them the source. i would think that mr. shen's main concern, not meade.

[vet]

i doubt Meade's demise---although you will not find a single 'innovative' product in their catalog---imitations of others---their world-wide distrubution is in place. on the other hand, after years commuting to both Taipei (ugh!) and Hong Kong (5-stars w/oxygen mask), i don't think usa production very feasible a competitor for factories where employees sleep at their desks. wake-up, eat and back to work. knowing mr. dieble, now legally wed to the daughter of japan's largest optical trading co., i would suspect some 'harley-davidson' type tarrif protection plea, as meade and this industry is highly litigous.

aside from meade's 'japanese-connection', one must remember the days all imported binoculars had a 20% tarrif---even years after no american binoculars were being made. that's more than a healthy net profit, for most. many americans have no clue that evey year changes in fed-law drown small to intermediate incs. killed my family's incs., that's why i went back to writing poetry & fiction---celestron is in for a rocky ride---a recent article in 'wired' pointed out Chinese marketing knows it's limited range, and wants to expand---but meade has formidible legal resources---that's where biz gets tricky---

the aquisition of celestron by what will soon be a 'province' of mainland China is, i feel, a strong indicator of their market foresight---i think they know---the next thing in Huge demand will not be mp3players, or pc's---telescopes.

[Dave Mitsky]

I spoke to the Meade rep at Skies Unlimited about competition from the PRC, i.e. Synta. I got the impression that he felt that Meade was destined to become only a niche market player much like Astro-Physics or Optical Guidance.

Free trade is great in principle but the playing field is far from level. The United States may be in for some hard times economically if it continues to binge on goods made by third world labor.

The world telescope market is a very minor one. I don't expect that that will ever change to any great degree.

Dave Mitsky

[vet]

Originally posted by Dave Mitsky@Apr 21 2005, 05:13 AM
I spoke to the Meade rep at Skies Unlimited about competition from the PRC, i.e. Synta. I got the impression that he felt that Meade was destined to become only a niche market player much like Astro-Physics or Optical Guidance.

Free trade is great in principle but the playing field is far from level. The United States may be in for some hard times economically if it continues to binge on goods made by third world labor.

The world telescope market is a very minor one. I don't expect that that will ever change to any great degree.

Dave Mitsky
i feel japan's largest optical trading co. probably has serious fiscal ties to China---the Japanese were among the 1st to 'buy-in' to the new PRC. as for free-trade? well, this is not the 50's, 60' early 70's where Americans enjoyed being the only surviving industrial power of WWII---and indonesians were still shrinking heads.

as my 1st inc. was factory, street-lighting, stadium metal-halide gear (light pollution!!!!), and quickly rose due to low bids and marketing, i was working 'thin'---the cure? lower cost. i was selling tons of 'fixtures', miles of mil-spec wire---so i became a biz-traveler---in Tokyo? nada. and any 'foreign' auto was very rare, a few mercedes, bmws---they had a 100% tarrif on auto imports, and most else.

but in Taipei i found an abundance of equal or superior fixtures, wire, meters, fans---all at incredible prices---i ask, if you could increase monthly net, net by 20-30$K?
for you and stockholders---what would you do? full-knowing, if you didn't, a competitor would?

as for 'visual/photographic' astronomy 'not' poised to go thru 'cosmic-inflation', i digress with you on that---anytime i set up a small refractor in any public area for saturn or jupiter---a crowd gathers. the PRC has invested heavily in this area, and they never proceed blindly---they see a telescope in every garage? a major indicator, carefully researched, that such may be the case, that's no unreasonable gamble. they'll be happy with 1 in 4.

[Dave Mitsky]

I've been involved with Astronomy Day presentations for many years at several different locations. IMO, the general public is just not interested in astronomy. For every 50 people that pass by, I'd be suprised that even one stops to have a look at the display tables despite the computers, DVD programs, slide shows, posters, moon globes, astrophotos, telescopes, solar observing, free handouts, and so on. I've also been very active in "public outreach". When Comet Hale-Bopp was at its peak, the ASH Naylor Observatory had somewhere between 500 to 1000 visitors from an area with a populaton of several hundred thousand. The total may have been a bit higher for the opposition of Mars in 2003. Keep in mind that these were major astronomical events that received major media attention, both national and local.

http://www.astrohbg.org/gallery2/outreach

It's been estimated that there are between 250,000 to 500,000 amateur astronomers in the United States, which has far more astronomy enthusiasts than any other country. The figure for the world is perhaps one million. There are only some 20,000 members in the Astronomical League. (The largest club in the country is the AAA in New York City which has just 1000 members.) About 10% of that figure are active observers. The remainder are "armchair astronomers" who may not even own telescopes. Taking in the larger pool of folks that don't belong to an AL club gives an estimate of 5,000 to 10,000 people in the US that regularly use a telescope. I belong to 3 astronomy clubs and those figures seem fairly reasonable to me.

Despite the IDA's best efforts, light pollution makes observational astronomy more difficult to conduct with each passing year. Most people in the United States have never seen the Milky Way. To do so may mean driving as much as two or three hours to escape the urban and suburban skyglow. It's really hard to get interested in astronomy to the degree that one desires to own a telescope when only 10 stars are visible at any given time. Factor in how few clear nights there are, the decrease in the amount of leisure time, and the way disposable income is shrinking and the conclusion that one is forced to accept is that very few people will ever own a functional, non-department store telescope. I can't tell you how many times I've seen or heard people ask what telescope they should buy for one hundred dollars. Most of them are astounded to find how much a medium level scope like an 8" Schmidt-Cassegrain costs.

Dave Mitsky

[vet]

well, i just know what happens when i set-up in a st.pete downtown park, minding my needs. people show up. as for astronomy poised for another 'inflationary' period, i may point to dr. dieble, whose family hired a consulting firm to advise their son as to new, not seen, markets. so he started with Carton's orthos, pumped me (for free, a fool) concerning the old adapted .965 barlows as adequate. so i told hom of that data being in ATM-3---and so much more.

i'm absolutely honest---he called constantly---once he had grown and reached the point where he felt the s/c market was his best future target---i got another long call---he was hung-up on newts vs. s/cs---i told him, if he had capital, s/cs were the thing---'aperture-rules'. i had to buy a lancruiser station wagon for my 14.25 f/5 newt, when a celston 14 (not optically comparable, then) could fit a small car.
what's my point?

as with meades' prior consultants, i really think the PRC thinks this market is going to rapidly grow---and they really 'hone' their guesses---it worked for meade. look how far a garage biz went. and there are a billion Chinese, half mal-nourished---failure is not an option. 'Cash-Flow' reigns. they are perfectly content to lose money at 1st, gain dominance later---so, if meade has not an 'In'---you may be right, their days numbered---i doubt Carton or Meade would fall for that.

[vet]

ps: you mention the cost of gear as a deterrent---what would yoy say to a very fine german eqatorial 6" mak, for cheap---or a 10" f/4 (i would order f/5s), there's a co.---the best military mfg., offering such. prices are negotiable---so your friends may have a superb 10" for +/- $350, maybe less---these are being made, not yet exported to North America.

so fiscal barriers may fall---and i have 'Trusted Man' status in China, for seeing a stone bargain, and initially marketing same, selling tons of their camera stuff. 'thin'. i have contacts with their national journal of science main writer---he bought a pair of 'counterfiet' nazi tank commander's binoculars from me, on ebay. i listed them as such---we became friends and i learned even major military optical producers were also being 'geared-up' for the astronomy market.

that's not weapons or cameras---their math/cyber savvy is not to be ignored, any more than dr. dieble ignored pro-consulting---if Mr. Saronik's may 2004 10" hardin review shows, China on the march to amateur/medium professional optics domination, there is nothing to stop it. they will sell based on your volume---not on your or their net. and often fund you, with future expectations. so, the world is ready for 'dirt-cheap', large high-quality 'scopes. i think they know that---from extensive global research---

[Dave Mitsky]

Chinese telescopes may not be "dirt cheap" for much longer. The dollar is probably going to be devalued versus the yuan soon and prices may rise by 25%.

http://www.bloomberg.com/ (April 22 and April 24)

April 24

China May Speed Up Move to Flexible Yuan, Central Bank Governor Zhou Says

"China may accelerate preparations to loosen the tie between its currency and the U.S. dollar in response to intensifying international pressure for the change, central bank Governor Zhou Xiaochuan said. "

Two other factors to consider are the 10% a year growth of the Chinese economy relative to the USA and concomitant with that a rise in the cost of labor and the effort being made to change US trade laws so that Chinese products will increase in price. The artificial economy and banking system of the PRC can't sustain the dumping of goods that has been SOP so far for much longer.

Guan Sheng of Taiwan (ROC) sold about 3000 Dobs in 2002. (I don't have any figures for Synta.) That's hardly enough to fill tens of millions of US garages.

The average age of astronomy club members is now in the high 40's. Young people are simply more interested in other things these days. Most teenage boys equate telescopes with nerds and are vastly more into video games and iPods than the stars.

Dave Mitsky

[vet]

Originally posted by Dave Mitsky@Apr 24 2005, 07:09 AM
Chinese telescopes may not be "dirt cheap" for much longer. The dollar is probably going to be devalued versus the yuan soon and prices may rise by 25%.

http://www.bloomberg.com/ (April 22 and April 24)

April 24

China May Speed Up Move to Flexible Yuan, Central Bank Governor Zhou Says

"China may accelerate preparations to loosen the tie between its currency and the U.S. dollar in response to intensifying international pressure for the change, central bank Governor Zhou Xiaochuan said. "

Two other factors to consider are the 10% a year growth of the Chinese economy relative to the USA and concomitant with that a rise in the cost of labor and the effort being made to change US trade laws so that Chinese products will increase in price. The artificial economy and banking system of the PRC can't sustain the dumping of goods that has been SOP so far for much longer.

Guan Sheng of Taiwan (ROC) sold about 3000 Dobs in 2002. (I don't have any figures for Synta.) That's hardly enough to fill tens of millions of US garages.

The average age of astronomy club members is now in the high 40's. Young people are simply more interested in other things these days. Most teenage boys equate telescopes with nerds and are vastly more into video games and iPods than the stars.

Dave Mitsky
points well made---an 8/2004 article in 'wired' showed 18-34 year olds spending 38% time 'online' vs. 22% watching broadcast TV. i'm betting on 'boomers'---most are pretty tired of sitting in front of monitors all day, seeking new outlets for their intelligence.

the fact that most have only noticed the moon, well, i must admit, my interest from childhood came from an age when the sky was resplendent, even in most cities. what people can't see will obviously lower their enthusiasm. but they do go camping.

[vet]

Originally posted by Dave Mitsky@Apr 23 2005, 01:54 PM
I've been involved with Astronomy Day presentations for many years at several different locations. IMO, the general public is just not interested in astronomy. For every 50 people that pass by, I'd be suprised that even one stops to have a look at the display tables despite the computers, DVD programs, slide shows, posters, moon globes, astrophotos, telescopes, solar observing, free handouts, and so on. I've also been very active in "public outreach". When Comet Hale-Bopp was at its peak, the ASH Naylor Observatory had somewhere between 500 to 1000 visitors from an area with a populaton of several hundred thousand. The total may have been a bit higher for the opposition of Mars in 2003. Keep in mind that these were major astronomical events that received major media attention, both national and local.

http://www.astrohbg.org/gallery2/outreach

It's been estimated that there are between 250,000 to 500,000 amateur astronomers in the United States, which has far more astronomy enthusiasts than any other country. The figure for the world is perhaps one million. There are only some 20,000 members in the Astronomical League. (The largest club in the country is the AAA in New York City which has just 1000 members.) About 10% of that figure are active observers. The remainder are "armchair astronomers" who may not even own telescopes. Taking in the larger pool of folks that don't belong to an AL club gives an estimate of 5,000 to 10,000 people in the US that regularly use a telescope. I belong to 3 astronomy clubs and those figures seem fairly reasonable to me.

Despite the IDA's best efforts, light pollution makes observational astronomy more difficult to conduct with each passing year. Most people in the United States have never seen the Milky Way. To do so may mean driving as much as two or three hours to escape the urban and suburban skyglow. It's really hard to get interested in astronomy to the degree that one desires to own a telescope when only 10 stars are visible at any given time. Factor in how few clear nights there are, the decrease in the amount of leisure time, and the way disposable income is shrinking and the conclusion that one is forced to accept is that very few people will ever own a functional, non-department store telescope. I can't tell you how many times I've seen or heard people ask what telescope they should buy for one hundred dollars. Most of them are astounded to find how much a medium level scope like an 8" Schmidt-Cassegrain costs.

Dave Mitsky
'you know your stuff, i'll hand you that'---i didn't expect your perhaps present understanding of the PRC's 'fast-term' marketing goals. or politics. it is a horror that most look up to sirius as one lonely blue thing. my conclusion on that, having seen that industry? electric providers are quite happy, unless compelled by law, as near mt. palomar, at billing you for light pollution.

big cities have always been foci of disaters---you would think they would have learned. maybe they will---

[suntrack2]

well in the current scinario due to the globlisation the lot of good things coming on the front, get the things at home, 100% headache free itmes, chain market everything coming today, and in the astronomy equipment, there are some duplicate products and cheap products are also coming, people are buying that but who know the result? sometime expensive but having no gurantee or warantee of the products are also available in the market so far lenses and binaculars are concern, then how the normal man who is amateur in astronomy he can buy what he like?

there are many questions, Dave.