Jerry Linneger's new book.

[jrkeller]

I recently obtained a copy of Jerry Linneger's new book, "Letters from Mir - An Astronaut's Letters to His Son"

On page 148 of his book, he states, "Speed equates to altitude when your in orbit" and I agree with this statement. He then goes on to state that "We go faster in order to get up higher. As we slow down, our orbit lowers." I'm not sure what to make of this statement.

If he is taking about orbital velocity vs. altitude then I know he is wrong. If he is talking about transfer orbits to higher altitude orbits then I know he is only partially correct.

Any comments here would be appreciated.

[ToSeek]

If you're in orbit, and you speed up, you end up in a higher orbit, and you'll be going slower. If you slow down, you end up in a lower orbit, going faster. (This is what makes rendezvous in space so tough.)

Altitude and speed are correlated, but it's an inverse correlation - lower altitude, higher speed; higher altitude, lower speed.

(Apologies if you know all this already - Linenger's explanation does sound rather confused.)

[GrapesOfWrath]

On 2002-12-18 08:45, jrkeller wrote:
On page 148 of his book, he states, "Speed equates to altitude when your in orbit" and I agree with this statement. He then goes on to state that "We go faster in order to get up higher. As we slow down, our orbit lowers." I'm not sure what to make of this statement.
The second statement doesn't immediately follow the first does it? I agree that that would be misleading if it did. How old was his son?

Surely, he didn't say "your in orbit"?

[Mr. X]

Surely, he didn't say "your in orbit"?


ROFL GoW! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[jrkeller]

Yes, these are quotes right out of the book and they are one after the other.

[Silas]

Speaking of Larry Niven... In "The Integral Trees," he depicts people living in what is essentially orbital space. They had a mantra: forward > up. up > back. back > down. down > forward. These are essentially correct, and are due to the coriolis illusion.

If you've ever been to an amusement park that has a whirling ride, you can experience the illusion. I've done this, and it's eerie. Basically, you're inside a large bucket which is rotating at a goodly speed. (Then they drop the floor away, but you don't slide downwards because you're shoved against the wall of the barrel by [that force which is not to be named.]) If you're strong enough, you can push your hands forward, closer to the center of the spinning drum.

At that point, if you shove your hands forward...they jerk strangely to the right. If you pull your hands back...they jerk strangely to the left. If you shove your hands to the left, they become "heavier," and if you shove them to the right they become "lighter."

Then everyone goes outside and throws up.

Silas

[Mr. X]

If you've ever been to an amusement park that has a whirling ride, you can experience the illusion. I've done this, and it's eerie.


Define whirling. Do you have a picture of type of ride you are talking about, it would help /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif


Basically, you're inside a large bucket which is rotating at a goodly speed. (Then they drop the floor away, but you don't slide downwards because you're shoved against the wall of the barrel by [that force which is not to be named.]) If you're strong enough, you can push your hands forward, closer to the center of the spinning drum.


Oh, by inertia you must mean? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif What do you mean "push" your hands? You mean put your hands in front of yourself, i.e. extend your arms? Or position your hands in from of yourself?


At that point, if you shove your hands forward...they jerk strangely to the right. If you pull your hands back...they jerk strangely to the left. If you shove your hands to the left, they become "heavier," and if you shove them to the right they become "lighter."


You mean you position your hands further away from yourself? And you mean they tend to move in the direction you described?

Forward you mean towards the axis of rotation, and back away from the axis? To the left and right you mean to your left and right?


Then everyone goes outside and throws up.


Only then can you say you've had a good time there. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Reminds me of a funny anecdote, about two years back a friend and I we went to the park (horrible syntax, forgive me!) and he wanted to go into something I never go into, it consists of a large swing, but it has an open top, can go all the way around (i.e. over the axis of rotation of the arms holding the swing.) and the arms don't have a fixed joint with the swing, so the swing can rotate on itself and around the top. I say can because the operator controls the stiffness of the joints to the swing, and it is swung by engines on the primary axis, and not on the ground. It leaves complete liberty to the operator to do as he wishes with it.

Well he wanted me to go, I didn't, and I didnt't go. Since we generally go to the park when few people are around (rainy looking days and weeknights), he was the only one in the ride... Let me just say the operator FULLY demonstrated the capabilities of the machine, during a long and exhaustive 15 minute long show... It was quite a show for me... and he was barely even able to stand up... /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Moral: Beware of lonely operators with lots of time on their hands and mean machines... /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[daver]

On 2002-12-18 12:00, Mr. X wrote:

If you've ever been to an amusement park that has a whirling ride, you can experience the illusion. I've done this, and it's eerie.


Define whirling. Do you have a picture of type of ride you are talking about, it would help /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

It's a big squat cylinder, maybe 10 meters in diameter, 3 meters tall. The wall of the cylinder is a steel grate, so it holds you in while allowing you to see out (and others to see in). People get inside the cylinder, line up along the outside wall facing in. The cylinder starts to spin along its axis. People are forced against the wall, the floor drops away. The cylinder is tilted slightly.

My brother liked them, i don't think i've ever ridden one. I can't think of the name now. Maybe Tilt-O-Wheel. There might have been different versions--one which just spun, and one which spun and then tilted.



Oh, by inertia you must mean? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif What do you mean "push" your hands? You mean put your hands in front of yourself, i.e. extend your arms? Or position your hands in from of yourself?


Push your arms in front of you, towards the axis of rotation



At that point, if you shove your hands forward...they jerk strangely to the right. If you pull your hands back...they jerk strangely to the left. If you shove your hands to the left, they become "heavier," and if you shove them to the right they become "lighter."


You mean you position your hands further away from yourself? And you mean they tend to move in the direction you described?

Forward you mean towards the axis of rotation, and back away from the axis? To the left and right you mean to your left and right?


Yes



Then everyone goes outside and throws up.


Only then can you say you've had a good time there. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Reminds me of a funny anecdote, about two years back a friend and I we went to the park (horrible syntax, forgive me!) and he wanted to go into something I never go into, it consists of a large swing, but it has an open top, ...


Doesn't sound familiar, but i haven't been to a carnival for a long time.

[Mr. X]

Might have been more productive had I given the name of the dealy...

The name is a HUSS (brand) Top Spin (model)

http://www.hussrides.com/52ClassicTopSpin.htm

See "tech specs" for schematics, and info for a general, better description than mine.