"Begs the Question"

[Nowhere Man]

This is something that has been mildly bugging me for a while. Since I started reading here (and also the old BABB and at the ApolloHoax.net forum), I've learned about the logical fallacy that lies behind the name "begging the question." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question) Now, I have noticed several instances where the phrase "begs the question" is used to mean "raises the question," the most recent being in the BA's web log for 2 Jan 2005: It was recently discovered that Pluto has two moons beyond the one already known (Charon, discovered in 1978). This was very cool news, but it begs the question: where did they come from?
Is this some alternate meaning of the phrase of which I am unaware (which is possible; I bombed in a spelling bee 'cos I didn't know that "formerly" was a word, and spelled "formally")?

On the other hand, "begging the question" does not really describe the logical fallicy it names, does it?

Fred

[suntrack2]

i am getting difficulty for answering this difficult question.man. :)

[Lance]

Good question.

It seems Webster's offers a definition for "beg" (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/begs) that I was previously unfamiliar with. Take a look at 3b.

3b : to pass over or ignore by assuming to be established or settled <beg the question>

[Nowhere Man]

3 a : EVADE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/evade), SIDESTEP (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/sidestep) <begged the real problems> b : to pass over or ignore by assuming to be established or settled <beg the question> Well, that takes care of my final question. This meaning of "beg" was also unknown to me. I wonder what the origin of this meaning is?

Fred

[Grey]

On the other hand, "begging the question" does not really describe the logical fallicy it names, does it?Here (http://www.word-detective.com/back-m.html#beg)'s a decent discussion. It does describe the logical fallacy reasonably well, though, since the fallacy lies in assuming that a question has been answered, when in fact it has not (and often has not even been asked explicitly).

It does not mean "raises the question," or that the question itself begs like Oliver Twist ("Please, Sir, may I have an answer?"). It means to bypass or avoid an essential question, but to proceed as if it had already been answered.It is, however, quite often used as you have noted, much to the dismay of English majors and grammarians everywhere. :)

[Lance]

I wonder what the origin of this meaning is?

My best guess would be that it evolved from something like:

"That statement completely ignores a question that is just begging for an answer."

Something like:

"The girl was wearing the most amazingly colored dress I have ever seen. Sadly, however, it was destroyed by the mud puddle".

Leaving the listener begging for an answer to the question "What color was the dress?"

But I'm completely guessing here... YMMV

[Nowhere Man]

It is, however, quite often used as you have noted, much to the dismay of English majors and grammarians everywhere. :)
Thanks, Grey. That's what I thought. I guess I can add it to the list, along with homophone abuse, apostrophe abuse, and "home vs. hone." :wall:

Fred

[01101001]

My best guess would be that it evolved from something like:

This (http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=beg%20the%20question) quotes alt.usage.english FAQ as saying the idiomatic usage evolved from Greek through Latin.

I don't see anything wrong with employing its literal meaning. The context will usually clarify.

[tofu]

Now, I have noticed several instances where the phrase "begs the question" is used to mean "raises the question,"

The wiki article you linked to actually covers this. Do you have a question beyond what's in the wiki?

[paulie jay]

When most people say "begs the question" they are largely ignorant of it's application to the act of circular reasoning.

[The Bad Astronomer]

English is fluid. If enough people start using it as I did, to mean "This then ignores the question", then that will become a new definition. English does that.

[Nowhere Man]

Tofu: I didn't actually read the full article. I was primarily interested in what "begging the question" meant in terms of argument. And I was posting from work and time was limited.

BA: "When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less." -- H. Dumpty, Through the Looking Glass. I know that English evolves, and I'm not an English purist to the extent that the French defend their language. The problem here is that not many people are aware of, or indeed care about, the 3rd definition of "beg" listed above. Perhaps "begging the question" could benefit from a change of name.

At any rate, I expect that the people who are studying the newly-discovered moons are not ignoring the question of where they came from. It's early yet, and about all we know about them is that they are there. Now that I know that "begging the question" is a dubious-at-best debate technique, using it in any other context...

Oh, to heck with it.

Fred

[The Bad Astronomer]

Hmmm... I didn't mean to say I used it correctly. But I am saying that eventually it'll mean what I meant it to say. I'm just ahead of the curve.

[Enzp]

So either the curve will rise up to support you, or you wil slide down it into the abyss.

[snarkophilus]

Here is a delightful comic that very nicely sums up my feelings on the issue. Is it coincidence that it came up today, or does perhaps Ryan North (the creator) read this forum? WoooOOOOooo... spooky....

http://www.qwantz.com/index.pl?comic=693

[kleindoofy]

... "begging the question" does not really describe the logical fallicy it names, does it? ...
Yes it does.

"To beg the question" is the English translation of the Latin "petitio principii." That basically means, well, to "beg for the question (at hand)" or to "fish for arguments" to prove your point, coming back to your point as a result. The fallacy is that you prove your argument with your argument: e.g. "free speech is a good thing, because everybody can say what they want."

The name is actually very fitting, in an indirect manner.