Scientology takes the lead into turn three...

[Charlie in Dayton]

Scientology Racing -- http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/sports/motorsports/14761999.htm
and the associated link -- http://www.fmgracing.com/index.php

I mention the associated link only because The Voice of Bart Simpson (Nancy Cartwright) is a hometown gal...

[SolusLupus]

Okay... why are they sponsoring it?

[Doodler]

Okay... why are they sponsoring it?

Come now, if their motives aren't transparent to you yet, I'm a little disappointed.

Scientology's core strategy has been to make inroads into various subcultures by subverting the celebrities representing their passion. By snagging good ol' boys out from under the nose of their traditionally hardcore Christian roots, they can make serious inroads into what is otherwise one of the most impenetrably insular American communities.

Can you imagine the implications of redneck Scientologists?

The mind boggles...

[R.A.F.]

Can you imagine the implications of redneck Scientologists?

OK...now you are seriously frightening me. :)

aside...I was under the impression that the admin/mods here considered starting a "scientology thread" as akin to starting a religious thread (yeah, I know).

Just so there are no surprises "if" this thread happens to get locked...

[Lance]

scientology ... akin ... religious
Scientology isn't religion?

(Just curious. Not trying to start something.)

[Doodler]

OK...now you are seriously frightening me. :)

aside...I was under the impression that the admin/mods here considered starting a "scientology thread" as akin to starting a religious thread (yeah, I know).

Just so there are no surprises "if" this thread happens to get locked...

Yeah, its hard to respect the dichotomy of Scientology as Bad...well...Everything, and Scientology as an actively recognized religion.

Probably one we'll be treading on eggshells to discuss.

Really, though, the connection to NASCAR is extremely simple. Its all about phishing for celebrite`.

[Doodler]

Scientology isn't religion?

(Just curious. Not trying to start something.)

It wants to be, it really really wants to be. It walks a fine line something akin to the Moonies.

[MrClean]

Ahhh the Moonies. And what ever happened to the Krishnas?

Them was the good ole days!

[Sammy]

Scientology identified itself as a religion to avoid prosecution on government charges of selling unapproved medical devices.

RE the link, I love the statement

Cruise recently bragged that wife Katie Holmes needed no anti-depressants for her post-partum depression.

Most births do not result in clinical depression. I do not recall any reports that Ms. Holmes/Cruise was suffering from post-partum depression, so it's not surprising that she didn't need drugs to relieve it.

[sarongsong]

...the connection to NASCAR is extremely simple. Its all about phishing for celebrite`.Also reflects their deep pocket$.

[SolusLupus]

Scientology isn't religion?

(Just curious. Not trying to start something.)

I think that they're recognized as a religion within the U.S., but other countries usually either legally treat them as a cult, or a business. In a way, they're both.

They're also deadly as heck. Some people were worked almost to death on the Apollo, the flagship of "Sea Org", the Navy of Scientologists, back in the '50s. There may also have been a couple of straight-out murders. They haven't changed much since then.

[Doodler]

Most births do not result in clinical depression. I do not recall any reports that Ms. Holmes/Cruise was suffering from post-partum depression, so it's not surprising that she didn't need drugs to relieve it.

Falls into the same logic mode as McCarthyist questioning.

[farmerjumperdon]

I think that they're recognized as a religion within the U.S., but other countries usually either legally treat them as a cult, or a business. In a way, they're both.

They're also deadly as heck. Some people were worked almost to death on the Apollo, the flagship of "Sea Org", the Navy of Scientologists, back in the '50s. There may also have been a couple of straight-out murders. They haven't changed much since then.

They have their own navy?!

(No disrespect inteded to THE Navy's of the world. I refuse to capitalize it for Scientology).

[Doodler]

They have their own navy?!

(No disrespect inteded to THE Navy's of the world. I refuse to capitalize it for Scientology).

I wouldn't call one ship a navy, but they do have it for outings. Better to brainwash the folks who can't swim and all.

[SolusLupus]

They have their own navy?!

(No disrespect inteded to THE Navy's of the world. I refuse to capitalize it for Scientology).

They did, in the '50s.

I'm also pretty sure that they had more than one ship. You have to remember that I'm talking about the older version, not the one today. I forget the other's names, though. This was all from an ex-scientologist I read the works of. It's been a while, and I don't know where the documentation is today.

*sighs* I should keep better track of my sources, that's for sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Org Information on Wikipedia, however.

On their contract, you literally sign up for a "billion years". That's billion with a b. Gives you the chance to continue to serve them well into the afterlife.

[Doodler]

They did, in the '50s.

I'm also pretty sure that they had more than one ship. You have to remember that I'm talking about the older version, not the one today. I forget the other's names, though. This was all from an ex-scientologist I read the works of. It's been a while, and I don't know where the documentation is today.

*sighs* I should keep better track of my sources, that's for sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Org Information on Wikipedia, however.

On their contract, you literally sign up for a "billion years". That's billion with a b. Gives you the chance to continue to serve them well into the afterlife.

My mistake, I was only aware of the one ship from the documentary I had seen.

[Gillianren]

They're also deadly as heck. Some people were worked almost to death on the Apollo, the flagship of "Sea Org", the Navy of Scientologists, back in the '50s. There may also have been a couple of straight-out murders. They haven't changed much since then.

And let's not forget people who have died due to the "church"'s policy on psychological medication. In fact, all medication not needed by someone in authority.

[Tinaa]

Shall I go ahead and close this thread before it sinks off into the taboo?

[Dragon Star]

Go ahead, I am sure we can do without it.:)

[SolusLupus]

Go ahead. I still don't think Scientology is a religion, or should be considered a religion, personally, but I can see why the moderators would want to avoid it. However, the question remains, what cult(s) are we allowed to discuss, if any?

[Metricyard]

If I recall correctly, the last thread on Scientology ended up with flaring tempers and a few posters banned. Best to kill it before it reproduces.

[Halcyon Dayz]

To keep it abstract then,
what is the difference (if any) between a religion and a cult?

[SolusLupus]

If I recall correctly, the last thread on Scientology ended up with flaring tempers and a few posters banned. Best to kill it before it reproduces.

Which was a long time ago, and when Candy was still around. As I recall from what people have told me, she was the prime cause of the argument.

[HenrikOlsen]

To keep it abstract then,
what is the difference (if any) between a religion and a cult?
A religion is a set of beliefs about the way the world works, not requiring verification outside the internal teachings.
A cult is a group of people with a common set of beliefs.

If you mean what's the difference between a religious organisation and a cult, then I'd say it's whether it's granted special privileges by secular law or not.

I don't see any fundamental difference between them otherwise.

[NEOWatcher]

Go ahead. I still don't think Scientology is a religion, or should be considered a religion, personally, but I can see why the moderators would want to avoid it. However, the question remains, what cult(s) are we allowed to discuss, if any?

Ok; year old thread, but this today was an interesting comment on scientology.
Scientology cited for barring Cruise production (http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movies/06/25/cruise.germany.reut/index.html)

Cruise, also one of the film's producers, is a member of the Church of Scientology which the German government does not recognize as a church. Berlin says it masquerades as a religion to make money, a charge Scientology leaders reject.

Interesting...

[R.A.F.]

If I recall correctly, the last thread on Scientology ended up with flaring tempers and a few posters banned.

But that had nothing to do with the subject of scientology...it had to do with posters who couldn't follow the "be polite" rule...

Basically the same reason that Sitchin threads are no longer allowed on this board. It has more to do with the mods not wanting the "hassle" of dealing with the posters associated with these subjects rather than the subjects themselves, because the subjects themselves are pretty "cut and dried". There really is no controversy over the "rightness" of the subjects, it's only the "believers" who have trouble understanding that.

[NEOWatcher]

But that had nothing to do with the subject of scientology...it had to do with posters who couldn't follow the "be polite" rule...
I had a bad feeling this would generate the "poster/polite" issue.

But I didn't think that this story needed a new thread, and the comment by Lonewolf questioning Scientology as a religion fit the story very well.

So; ignoring anybodies personal views on this, does anyone have examples of official recognition or catagorization of Scientology as a religion. Here in the US, it seems like just about anything can be a religion.

[SeanF]

There really is no controversy over the "rightness" of the subjects, it's only the "believers" who have trouble understanding that.
So you're saying there's really no disagreement, it's only the people who disagree who think there's a disagreement? ;)

[R.A.F.]

Yeah...something like that. :lol:

[Noclevername]

To keep it abstract then,
what is the difference (if any) between a religion and a cult?

Social acceptance.

[Lurker]

Social acceptance.
Actually, I think it is a bit more abstract that that... one person's religion is often another's cult. Sorta the freedom fighter / terrorist dichotomy. To the English in 1776 we were a bunch of terrorists, we saw ourselves as freedom fighters... :)

[Trebuchet]

Returning to the OP, I don't see anything about Scientology by following either link. Presumably some story has aged off into the archives. Or perhaps there was some pressure....

[NEOWatcher]

Returning to the OP, I don't see anything about Scientology by following either link. Presumably some story has aged off into the archives. Or perhaps there was some pressure....
Sorry for the confusion...but it seemed like a good place for my post (http://www.bautforum.com/showpost.php?p=1016909) and some people went a little farther back.

[Trebuchet]

Thanks for the explanation, I missed the fact that it was a resurrected thread!

[Fazor]

AFAIK, most major, accepted religions have strong undertones of saving (enlightening/etc.) civilization as a whole. Most cults I've read about have more of a message of "we'll save our own group of small people. [help yourself to some punch]". Perhaps that's a distinction between the two? I don't know...personally I think the term is technically interchangeable, except that religion is "accepted" where "cult" has negative connotations.

For instance, I've heard Wicca referred to as a religion, but I've also heard people claim that a Wiccan is someone in a cult. Guess it depends on how you personally view said religion.

[Gillianren]

How long the religion's been around and how many practitioners it has also has some effect.

[SeanF]

When I hear the word "cult," I think of something that fits within the meaning of the first definition (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cult) in the American Heritage Dictionary:

A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
Which I think relatively few religions fall under, at least in America. I certainly seem to be living in a pretty conventional manner, despite my being a practicing Catholic. :)

[Maksutov]

How long the religion's been around and how many practitioners it has also has some effect.Exactly right.

It all comes down to two words:

Clout

and

Count.