the way a spider thinks

[Chunky]

i wonder if a spider looks at it's web as its home. maybe they dont go on other webs because that would be like invading someones home. if a spider does go on anothers web then that means either A. none of the spiders care. or. B. there are bad spiders, like criminals.:D just a thought

[Tog_]

Spider webs serve three main functions.
1. They catch food.
2. They protect the spider by alerting it if anything gets too close.
3. They protect the egg sacs by allowing them to be placed somewhere far out of the way.

Anything that touches the web is either food or an enemy. The exception is a male spider entering a female's web. His intentions may be more amorous. There is still a really good chance he'll be killed and eaten.

There is a type of jumping spider called Portia that will go onto other spider's webs to eat them, their mates, their babies, whatever. I think it was Animal Planet that did a show on them. They do things that are almost creepy smart. When they walk out on another web, they will wait until the wind blows so their movement isn't detected. In one case that didn't work, so it climbed up high and cam down on a strand of web of it's own, then cut it's own web for a short freefall onto the unsuspecting orbweaver.

Creepy smart.

[01101001]

Australian Museum Online: Redback spider (http://amonline.net.au/factsheets/redback.htm):

Prey-stealing is also common, with large females taking stored food items from others' webs.
Western North Carolina Nature Center (http://wildwnc.org/natnotes/arachnamania.html):

Some spiders steal food from other spiders. Some use other spiders' webs. There is even a spider that knocks at the door of another spider's home and waits for acknowledgement before entering.
PBS Kids: Golden Orb Spider (http://pbskids.org/backyardjungle/discovery/control.php?id=24129&action=detail):

The males live on the female's web and are klyptoparasites, which means that the males come and steal food from the female. The males have to be careful though, a wrong move could make them lunch for the female.
Keene State College: Arachnophilia (http://www.keene.edu/science/arachnophilia.cfm):

The spiders of the genus Argyrodes, explains Cangialosi, are known for, among other characteristics, kleptoparasitism, or their habit of stealing food from other species.

[Frog march]

I saw a really smart spider on a doc it was called something like 'Porscha' but I tried to google it but the spelling is not the same as for the car. edit- not that that is how you spell the car's name.

[BigDon]

The portia spider has the highest density of neurons per volume of "brain" tissue in the animal kingdom, followed closely by the jumping spiders. That's the name your looking for Frog March. Pronounced like the car.

[Tog_]

I saw a really smart spider on a doc it was called something like 'Porscha' but I tried to google it but the spelling is not the same as for the car. edit- not that that is how you spell the car's name.

Portia (http://http://www.amonline.net.au/factSheets/portia.htm). It's pronounced POR-sha. That was the same one I saw, I'm sure.

[Gillianren]

Also the name of the main female character in The Merchant of Venice, though I don't know if that has anything to do with it. If it's so smart, it may well.

[Ronald Brak]

In Queensland big spiders will stick their legs out straight to when they fall from a height to increase wind resistance. They look like enormous hairy snowflakes.

[Tog_]

In Queensland big spiders will stick their legs out straight to when they fall from a height to increase wind resistance. They look like enormous hairy snowflakes.

Wow, thanks for that image. I didn't plan on sleeping again in this lifetime anyway...:o

[Chunky]

There is a type of jumping spider called Portia that will go onto other spider's webs to eat them, their mates, their babies, whatever. I think it was Animal Planet that did a show on them. They do things that are almost creepy smart. When they walk out on another web, they will wait until the wind blows so their movement isn't detected. In one case that didn't work, so it climbed up high and cam down on a strand of web of it's own, then cut it's own web for a short freefall onto the unsuspecting orbweaver.

Creepy smart.


lol, so my 'theory' (if you want to call it that) could still be right, that spider you refered to was a theif and a murderer. that spider had other ways of getting food but it decided to kill. .....eh:shifty:

[BigDon]

Back in '81 my ship pulled into Perth, Australia and my friends and I were put up by this really nice couple (Geoff and Margo) who lived just outside of town in this place called Calgoolrie. After months of drinking distilled water made by the ships evaporators the local water tasted like brine. Even our hosts said that your kidneys will fail in a year if that was all you drank. We were more than happy to go the beer route.

The backporch of this guys ranch faced what appeared to me as a infinite sea of dry grass. He had cut the grass back from his house about a hundred feet. Horses cropped it short further out. That night when we were all sitting on the back porch sipping suds and telling sea stories I couldn't help noticing mice running though the grass in, what to me, looked like unnatural numbers.

This went on for some time and as I've heard of mouse plagues happening in some parts of Australia I asked my host if that was normal. He gets up with some alarm and gazes over the railing of the porch and says where? I point and he keeps looking and says he doesn't see them and I'm going how can you not see them? Then you can see the lightbulb go off over his head and he says, "Oh those? Those are just wolf spiders!" :eek:

My friends and I couldn't believe it! We took some of the lanterns down and started to walk out there for a closer look and about halfway there all the spiders came to a stop. So did we. Some of the closer spiders made little four foot runs in our direction. I decided I had had enough of the wonders of nature for one night....

It's true that spiders eyes reflect silver. And there was a lot of them.

[Chunky]

....i think the above story is a lie....sorry guy but i do. there are some...um...missing facts...some things that dont add up.

[TriangleMan]

In Queensland big spiders will . . .
Back in '81 my ship pulled into Perth, Australia . . .

I have decided I'm never going to Australia. :shifty:

[BigDon]

And I bet your first thought was, "Why weren't they eating each other?" Because that sure as hell was mine.

[BigDon]

Triangleman, I can give you really good reason for going. Its very bright and sunny there and not a single slip (woman's clothing item) in the entire town.

But worse than the spiders in the grass were the FLIES! Oh dear lord in heaven! It was absolutely unbelievable the amount of flies! And they aren't like ours here. The look like regular houseflys and they don't have a nasty bite. They do something much worse. They like to land on your face and they don't try to dodge when you slap at them. Took me three days not to slap at them. You have to learn to just shoo them off. You could tell when somebody was fresh off the ship because their faces were covered with little blood spots. The locals ignored them completely. Especially the ranchers. Made fun of us who couldn't.

[Argos]

Also the name of the main female character in The Merchant of Venice, though I don't know if that has anything to do with it. If it's so smart, it may well.

Also a character in "The Bicentennial Man"...

[Tog_]

lol, so my 'theory' (if you want to call it that) could still be right, that spider you refered to was a theif and a murderer. that spider had other ways of getting food but it decided to kill. .....eh:shifty:

Well, sort of right, but I think you're giving spiders a bit much credit in the thinking department. I don't think a spider would walk into an area and say, "Oh look, that other spider left me a meal", I think it would be more along the lines of, "Oh look, something I don't have to chase". Plus all spiders kill to survive. There are no spider vegetarians that I know of. None of them only suck out the non-vital bits of whatever they bite. They kill or they die. It's not murder, it's survival and instict.

Technically, people have a choice too, when it comes to food. If you want a burger, you have three real options. Go to the burger place. Go to store and make your own, or grab a stick and head to teh cattle ranch. Obviously the burger place is the easiest, with home a close second. Killing, dressing and butchering a cow is just too much work.

Buying it is just sort of an extension of stealing the food. If I had a lot of food, and you didn't, you could attack me to take my food, but I might win. Instead you trade me somethign for some of my food. If I like what you offer, you eat and get a new whatever. Once money came around, it was easier to get stuff you needed because pretty much everyone would take money, whereas there may not be much I can do with 5 shiny rocks and a bird skull.

[Ozzy]

The portia spider has the highest density of neurons per volume of "brain" tissue in the animal kingdom

Does that include us?

Dont let the scary stories put you off Australia. Scaring tourists is a bit of a sport here. Spiders are not a problem, they dont see us as prey. Oh and the sharks are not much of a problem anymore ...... the crocs ate 'em.

Luv from Oz

[Ronald Brak]

Exactly. There is nothing to be scared of in Australia. Usually it's just the locals trying to give visitors a scare. For example, bird spiders are only called that because they eat birds, not because they have wings and fly.

[Ozzy]

During World War II the locals used to scare the Yanks (American Servicemen) with stories of the deadly drop bears that would drop out of trees onto your neck. :liar:

The poor soldiers would walk around holding their gun and looking up into the trees. Today we call them koalas. ;)

[Tog_]

Exactly. There is nothing to be scared of in Australia. Usually it's just the locals trying to give visitors a scare. For example, bird spiders are only called that because they eat birds, not because they have wings and fly.
And Funnel Webs? And those huge ones that like to come inside? And are there any snakes there that are NOT venemos? It's not winged spiders that worry me, it's the flocks of fruit eating parrots I've heard hang out over the car parks.:eh:

(As for the sport of scaring tourists, we do the same thing with Arizona):p

[SeanF]

Exactly. There is nothing to be scared of in Australia. Usually it's just the locals trying to give visitors a scare. For example, bird spiders are only called that because they eat birds, not because they have wings and fly.
Well, yeah, no reason to be scared of critters that eat birds.

[Roy Batty]

....i think the above story is a lie....sorry guy but i do. there are some...um...missing facts...some things that dont add up.
I'll leave it to BigDon to refute your claim if he so wishes, but if you'll permit me to offer some friendly advice; It's not considered very polite round here to accuse someone of lying without giving full details & reasons to back up that claim.

[Ozzy]

And Funnel Webs? And those huge ones that like to come inside? And are there any snakes there that are NOT venemos? It's not winged spiders that worry me, it's the flocks of fruit eating parrots I've heard hang out over the car parks

Usually about once every six months I find a carpet python in the laundry. They are a beautiful creature, and soooo cool. We leave each other alone, he/she catches a few mice and leaves his/her scent through the roof keeping the pesky rodents away. When they come back so does he.

Yes there are some big ugly spiders in Australia, but you must remember that they are as scared of you as you are of them. Their fear is much more rational than ours, as they fear that we look at them as a snack. Mmmmmm Spider Burger!

Its not the venom that counts, its the disposition. Brown snakes and rough scales are cranky mongrels, but hey I think statistically it is people who try to catch or kill snakes who usually get bitten.

The parrots are noisy and messy, every evening at sundown, the main street of town is a noisy cocophany of bird calls, as they return home and settle into the trees lining the main street. Its really fun, and our town wouldnt have it any other way.

Its the bat poo you should worry about. nasty stuff. We have a virus here called equine virus (because it first killed horses, but eventually killed one person) spread by bats. The fruit bats (flying fox) are very cute though.

[HenrikOlsen]

Australia? Isn't that where everything that isn't venomous is poisonous?

As for spiders going on another's web, one of the coolest things I've seen with spiders was once when I noticed a spider tapping on the web of another with its front legs, then pausing a bit as if to see the result, then tapping a bit more.
After about 5 minutes of tapping, waiting, looking and tapping some more, he finally started moving onto the web, all the while waiting and tapping between walking until he got all the way over to the other without getting attacked, at which time they suddently became a small twisty ball of 16 legs going in all directions (at least that's how it looked), followed by him letting lose and swinging away on a thread he'd been trailing behind him and since he hadn't attached it anywhere on her web, the swing got him far enough away not to be eaten.

[Roy Batty]

Hmm, thinks how to apply the above to human 'relationships' :D

[HenrikOlsen]

Have lots of patience going in and have an exit strategy that won't get you hurt going out.

[Parrothead]

It wasn't the thought of poisonous/venomous spiders/snakes that bothered me while visiting Oz, it was those Kookaburras "laughing" in the middle of my downstrokes, while out on the golf course. :p

[Ozzy]

That was probably me.:lol:

[Cougar]

There is nothing to be scared of in Australia. Usually it's just the locals trying to give visitors a scare.
Uh, what about the box jellyfish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_jellyfish)? The beaches are beautiful, and typically you'll be the only one there. But I think this is because if you run into one of these jellyfish, you will die if you don't get some antivenom into you pretty quickly.
http://www.xmission.com/~dcc/au/mnly01.jpg
Manly

[Ozzy]

Box jelly fish is only a problem in the far north of Australia during the hotter part of the year. The peak tourist times in these areas is during the cooler months, when the sticky monsoon weather is over.

[Chunky]

I'll leave it to BigDon to refute your claim if he so wishes, but if you'll permit me to offer some friendly advice; It's not considered very polite round here to accuse someone of lying without giving full details & reasons to back up that claim.

then i will fully detail and back up my claim

That night when we were all sitting on the back porch sipping suds and telling sea stories I couldn't help noticing mice running though the grass in, what to me, looked like unnatural numbers.

how could you see these 'mice' if it was night time. im assuming the spiders were black.

This went on for some time and as I've heard of mouse plagues happening in some parts of Australia I asked my host if that was normal. He gets up with some alarm and gazes over the railing of the porch and says where?
he got up and looked out into the beyond after asking him if the mouse plagues were common?, just a question. there could be another meaning to this if you pointed towards the back yard and mentioning the mice you saw....lol. o just now read the other quote im about to make...."i point" lol, but im not going to delete anything i have typed so...eh.
I point and he keeps looking and says he doesn't see them and I'm going how can you not see them? Then you can see the lightbulb go off over his head and he says, "Oh those? Those are just wolf spiders!"

a clever discise, as a light blows it gets brighter...thus the man can see the spiders. if that man couldnt see the anything with the light on. then how could he see it and actually know what they were in that milli second that the light got brighter....and the light is at the railing of the porch? ive never heard of that, althought "over his head" could have been an expression not a location

My friends and I couldn't believe it! We took some of the lanterns down and started to walk out there for a closer look and about halfway there all the spiders came to a stop. So did we. Some of the closer spiders made little four foot runs in our direction. I decided I had had enough of the wonders of nature for one night....

i got nothin
It's true that spiders eyes reflect silver. And there was a lot of them.

im asumming that when you were on the porch the silver eyes are what you saw. if this is correct then when you went out into the yard about half way and you saw the spider and/or their eyes. you saw them with a lantern. yet the man couldnt see the spiders with a actual light which is much brighter than a lantern

P.S. i could be wrong i tend to over analise everything

[Musashi]

When he says "a light bulb goes off over his head, he is being metaphorical." He means the guy made the connection between the two events, not that an actual light bulb went off.

[Musashi]

Also, just because it was nighttime doesn't mean it was pitch black. I would suggest that you refrain from calling people liars in the future just because you think there are missing facts.

[Chunky]

When he says "a light bulb goes off over his head, he is being metaphorical." He means the guy made the connection between the two events, not that an actual light bulb went off.
the expression is a light bulb going on or turning on, ya know. its not one blowing

[Chunky]

Also, just because it was nighttime doesn't mean it was pitch black. I would suggest that you refrain from calling people liars in the future just because you think there are missing facts.
i will, but i said " i THINK the above post is a lie" i didnt out right say " your lying"

[Gillianren]

the expression is a light bulb going on or turning on, ya know. its not one blowing

You know, a lot of people use different variations of different expressions, especially if they're from other countries. And you really don't want me to get started on your English.

"Non-dangerous animals of XXXX: some of the sheep." (Yes, I know; XXXX officially isn't Australia. It's just a place that's kind of, you know, Australian.)

[mugaliens]

Tog, your treatise on food made me realize we've substituted money for clubs. That must make Gates the biggest modern-Neanderthal of them all.

[Chunky]

You know, a lot of people use different variations of different expressions, especially if they're from other countries. And you really don't want me to get started on your English.
o, HAHA "your "i know its spelled wrong but i dont care to spell it right, you understand the meaning of the word do you know isnt your good enough? <removed by moderator - extremely rude.>

[Tinaa]

o, HAHA "your "i know its spelled wrong but i dont care to spell it right, you understand the meaning of the word do you know isnt your good enough? also, <removed by moderator - extremely rude.>

Jonathan you have been rude twice on this thread. See rule #2. This is an official warning. Next time you will be suspended.

Edit to fix quote and rule #.

[Gillianren]

o, HAHA "your "i know its spelled wrong but i dont care to spell it right, you understand the meaning of the word do you know isnt your good enough? <removed by moderator - extremely rude.>

I have no idea what you're trying to say. If what you're trying to say is "do I get my message across regardless of my poor spelling and grammar?" the answer is no, about half the time.

[BigDon]

Tinaa, I'm cool with what he said to me, but I didn't see what he said to Gillian, so carry on.

Jonathan- I'm not offended in the slightest.

Do you have dry grass were you live? Dry grass is a off yellow white. Reflects light nicely compared to the sky and makes an excellent contrast to the very black spiders.

Nor did I mean to imply that they were at the densities of plague mice, which can get three deep over wide areas, just that I had heard of them. The actual density was about one every three feet for as far as I could see. These spiders of unknown species were the size of male tarantulas. Thats an impressive density for a city boy like me. Never seen anything like it before or since.

People who live on very rural farms like to have a lot of light available. There was plenty of light to see by that went out a long way. We were under the roof of the porch so this light wasn't shining in our faces.

Actually we could see the moving black shapes quite well and didn't see the eye shine until we were closer and away from the porch lights. Then it looked like I was looking a vacant lot full of broken glass.

I imagine they all stopped because they felt the vibration of our foot steps and heard our voices. The closer ones moved on us for reasons I can only guess at. (Hey if I had all the answers that alone would make the story suspicious.)

I'll be more than happy to clear up any other points of confusion over this issue.

[Frog march]

If you get stung by a jellyfish I have heard that you are supposed to put vinegar on the sting.

[Chunky]

Tinaa, I'm cool with what he said to me, but I didn't see what he said to Gillian, so carry on.

Jonathan- I'm not offended in the slightest.

Do you have dry grass were you live? Dry grass is a off yellow white. Reflects light nicely compared to the sky and makes an excellent contrast to the very black spiders.

Nor did I mean to imply that they were at the densities of plague mice, which can get three deep over wide areas, just that I had heard of them. The actual density was about one every three feet for as far as I could see. These spiders of unknown species were the size of male tarantulas. Thats an impressive density for a city boy like me. Never seen anything like it before or since.

People who live on very rural farms like to have a lot of light available. There was plenty of light to see by that went out a long way. We were under the roof of the porch so this light wasn't shining in our faces.

Actually we could see the moving black shapes quite well and didn't see the eye shine until we were closer and away from the porch lights. Then it looked like I was looking a vacant lot full of broken glass.

I imagine they all stopped because they felt the vibration of our foot steps and heard our voices. The closer ones moved on us for reasons I can only guess at. (Hey if I had all the answers that alone would make the story suspicious.)

I'll be more than happy to clear up any other points of confusion over this issue.
im glad you wernt offended. i just thought you were over exagerating the story like....eh, i over analise things to mush but yeah i dont have a problem with you, i just speak my mind. with the other guy and what i did to him. nothing! nothing at all, he was taking up for you i assume thats why he made the grammer crack...well it wasnt a joke but he wasnt insulting me all the same but i dont care he started it. and he knows it...YOU KNOW IT :)

[Chunky]

o, did any one get to read what i wrote before tinna deleted it? lol..i thought it was funny..it was.

[Chunky]

o, i founed oiut that giy is actaly an gurl. sory.


lol...i had to...i really had to

( i was making fun of myself, so no rules broken...i dont think, i havent actually read them. i assume they are just like other rules. no walking on the grass, no foul language. ect ect.)

[Chunky]

o, HAHA "your "i know its spelled wrong but i dont care to spell it right, you understand the meaning of the word do you know isnt your good enough? <removed by moderator - extremely rude.>

do you not, i meant to say do you not. i mess up like that....quite often

[BigDon]

im glad you wernt offended. i just thought you were over exagerating the story like....eh, i over analise things to mush but yeah i dont have a problem with you, i just speak my mind.

Johnathan - I'll be the first to tell you that I do exagerate. I am a teller of tall tales and a spinner of wild yarns. Not the best thing to brag about on this website but that's the truth. Which is what most folks here seem to be sticklers on.

I usually post at another website where my stories are well received but it isn't a science website that has to fight off bad science and nut bars. I promise that any story not in the Off Topic area is as factual as I can make it. This particular one was totally true. I've had an adventurous life so far and been to the far side of the world twice. (Does that count as all the way around once?) In the future, though, be very wary of any stories that get posted near Halloween and April 1st. That's when I bring out the whoppers. (American slang for big, fat lies)

Gillian - feel free to correct any spelling or syntax errors you might see in my posts. I don't mind those one word edits and how can I learn if nobody shows me? Though I do like my sig as it stands. You're right the correct spelling is ugly. I'll stick with the accepted "varient".

Careful Johnathan, poking the mod with "I thought is was funny" after just being warned is sort of like poking a badger with a stick. It might be funny to see it jump but then there is what comes after.

[mugaliens]

If you get stung by a jellyfish I have heard that you are supposed to put vinegar on the sting.

That's correct. Nothing else works nearly as well, but the vinegar instantly halts the stinging action. A lot of other remedies have been proposed, but most either don't work half as well or will actually increase the stinging action, which in the case of a box jellyfish could prove deadly.

You still have to scrape the remains off, and the best option is usually a credit card.

[Chunky]

Careful Johnathan, poking the mod with "I thought is was funny" after just being warned is sort of like poking a badger with a stick. It might be funny to see it jump but then there is what comes after.

point taken

and about going around the world once question...only in your mind...ya know, you can think that but you didnt actually go from A to A ya know....or i could be wrong. but its all good

[Peter Wilson]

Exactly. There is nothing to be scared of in Australia. Usually it's just the locals trying to give visitors a scare. For example, bird spiders are only called that because they eat birds, not because they have wings and fly.Well that's reassuring!

But what about the kangaroo spider?

[DogB]

Just to back up BigDon's story, I live in Brisbane which is on the other side of the country but has a similar climate to Perth. If I let my grass get too long in summer, I often see similar densities of large spiders fleeing as I mow.

Over here we get huntsman spiders not wolf spiders but they are quite similar in both size and habits. BigDon also accurately describes the eye shine effect - something you have to see to believe.

All in all the story rings true to me.

[TriangleMan]

But I think this is because if you run into one of these jellyfish, you will die if you don't get some antivenom into you pretty quickly.
I often see similar densities of large spiders fleeing as I mow
Yep, I think I'll just chill out at home. :cool:

[Tog_]

Careful Johnathan, poking the mod with "I thought is was funny" after just being warned is sort of like poking a badger with a stick. It might be funny to see it jump but then there is what comes after.

For those unfamilir with badgers, I was driving through Idaho in the middle of the night and there was a badger eatign something less fortunate in the right lane of the highway. I drifted to the left at around 70 MPH and it charged my car. I'm assuming it was to chase me away from whatever it had found, but the fact is, It moved about 15 in the direction of a moving object that was MUCH larger than it was. Nasty, nasty critters.

[Ronald Brak]

I imagine BigDon's spiders were huntsmans, Wolf spider might be just might be the local name for them. Basically they are a big spider that comes out at night and hunts. Sometimes they eat mice. I've also heard of them called rainspiders as they like to come inside when it's raining to get out of the wet. My parents had a huge one that like to stay in their car during the day, so he got to go a lot of places. I always like to see them around as they keep pests under control.

[Ozzy]

Perhaps these charming little fellows were the culprit.

http://www.amonline.net.au/spiders/dangerous/mouse/wanderers.htm

The mouse spider is often mistaken for a funnel web.

Most male mygalomorph spiders wander by night in search of females during their mating season. This is to avoid both day-active predators and excessive heat and water loss.

BiG Don what time of year were you in Western Australia? Did you notice if the spiders had a red head?

Oh ... I though America was at the far side of the earth!

[BigDon]

I didn't get that close to notice if they had red heads. And in was late Feb as I had my 21 birthday there.

[Ronald Brak]

They could have been wolf spiders, they grow up to about 8 cm across. If they were bigger than that, say the size of your hand, I think they must have been huntsmans which can grow up to 16 cm across. I know you can get large numbers of huntsmans in one area, I guess the same would be true for wolf spiders.

[BigDon]

I wouldn't put too much creadence in them being one over the other. He didn't strike me as a hard core entomologist. That and the fact that even though the beer got drunk, I got drunker. :shhh:

[Ozzy]

I imagine BigDon's spiders were huntsmans, Wolf spider might be just might be the local name for them.

As Wolf spiders actively hunt for food they are likely to be found roving along the ground and they are more active at night. When spotlighted at night wolf spider's eyes will glow green
http://www.amonline.net.au/spiders/resources/general.htm#wolf

I found that huntsmen are social spiders (aint that nice), so it could explain the proximity of the spiders.

[eburacum45]

Thanks, Ozzy;
from that link, here is a nice image of the silver reflections in a wolf spider's eyes
http://www.amonline.net.au/spiders/toolkit/hairy/see.htm#reflector

[Roy Batty]

Spiders, Thousands of 'em! Don't run till you see the silver of their eyes.

What Triangleman said, I'm staying indoors, shivering :D

[BigDon]

As my Mom and Stepfather are getting on in years I go up to their house to do the gardening a couple times a week. After getting the sprinklers going I took shelter in the screened in patio and relaxed. I kept hearing that distinctive buzz of an insect trapped in a web but it would stop by the time I got up to look. When I finaly found out what was happening I was stunned.

The local mud daubers had learned a new trick.

Now for those that don't know, mud daubers are wasps that have those extra long hind legs. They gather up balls of mud to make nurseries for their young. Even though there is a couple of hundred species they mainly come in two types. Those that parasitize cutworms and those that parasitize spiders. As I know from a lot of reading mud daubers are some of the least likely of the vespids to sting so I never molest them when the come to my yard when I water, seeking mud.

What they were doing today was flying up to an orb weaver web, and using those long hind legs were grabbing the vertical, (non-sticky) spokes and vibrating their wings! The resident spider would race out of hiding, go to the center of it web and the mud dauber would pluck it out and fly off with it. I watched as they cleared out the entire overhang around the patio.

Just like on the Discovery Channel!

BD

[Chunky]

i have seen this bug.....thing before. i havent a clue is to what it was but i have found two of them. it was almost like a cocoon. it looked like.....like.. a cigar but much shorter. but only the head ( im pretty sure it was the front of it) was like a cigar. it was about 3 inches long a third of it looked like the part of a cigar you put in your mouth. it had...like... indentions on it you could see something like eyes..ears maybe..it was a like a fossil indention in a rock an imprint but it bludged out not much at all. but that was only a third of the body the rest of it was a cone. with lumps on it i mean like...)))))))) like that!! but place ")" horisonally do you understand ?? i hope so. but yes, at the very end there was a stinger i dont know if it stung because i was to scared to touch it. this " funnel" tail. it moved. in all direction but it was limited like....um..hm..i cant explain it...it was almost like a rattle snake tail. the movement i mean. it couldnt move as fast as a raddle snakes tail but it could go side to side. it responded to my touch. the cigar part was actually soft...kinda soft. i could squeese on it alil and i could feel it bend, ya know..ive never in my life ever seen anything like that before...besides the second time i saw it but besides that i havent seen it again. the first one i found laying on the ground by a tree. i forget where i found thge second one. i brought it to my biology class and the teacher didnt know what it was either. i dont have a point to this reply i just wanted to tell you all

[eburacum45]

Hmm; perhaps a devil's coach horse or its larva?
(a Rove Beetle)
one of these (http://www.the-piedpiper.co.uk/th11e(5).htm)?
or these (http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/devilchrse.htm)?

[Chunky]

Hmm; perhaps a devil's coach horse or its larva?
(a Rove Beetle)
one of these (http://www.the-piedpiper.co.uk/th11e(5).htm)?
or these (http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/devilchrse.htm)?
no, thats not it. it didnt have any arms or legs. im sure it was a larva thou. the second one i found i had to take it apart....it has feelers wings and i think legs( under its shell like covering) but in its larva state it had no limbs. every one send me a pic of what you might think it is. ill know it when i see it, i looked around myself, i couldnt find a picture