Relationship between GRB & XRF

[erich]

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v442/n7106/edsumm/e060831-08.html
As we get more observations of GRBs and X-ray flashes like these our understanding of Stellar and Black hole evolution should get nailed down.
As these results filter in it will be interesting to see how EU theory holds up.

And hopefully the next generation of particle accelerators should bring even more grist for this Plasma based mill.


Also:
I have read that Black holes could be the most efficient generators in the universe , is that what this study is getting at?:

http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=PRVDAQ000074000002021502000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=Yes&type=ALERT

Here's the free paper:
http://lanl.arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0511131

Lots of interesting comments here:
http://arstechnica.com/journals/science.ars/2006/8/4/4887

--------------------
Erich J. Knight

[tusenfem]

1. As we get more observations of GRBs and X-ray flashes like these our understanding of Stellar and Black hole evolution should get nailed down.

2. As these results filter in it will be interesting to see how EU theory holds up.

3. And hopefully the next generation of particle accelerators should bring even more grist for this Plasma based mill.


1. There is now a link between a supernova with GRB and XRF, seems that they are related to the supernova explosive process. How exactly will this help us understand BH evolution? All the papers seem to have to do with shock physics, something that happens in a shell well away.

2. EU has never said anything about this, and will not say, let alone calculate something about these observations. EU is dead.

3. How do you mean this statement, what kind of grist do you expect from particle accelerators (which basically study elementary particles and not plasmas in the EU sense)?

[erich]

1. I thought that these hard observations would, over time, settle questions of which stellar objects ultimately evolve to BHs.

3. The question of gravitons, and dark matter theories.

[upriver]

2. EU has never said anything about this, and will not say, let alone calculate something about these observations. EU is dead.


EU is dead. By that you mean no electricity exists in space? Or what?

Plasma pinch. And has said that from the beginning.
I even had some crazy ideas about a pinch forms an iron sun/sphere.
Z-pinch stellar formation theory....
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=32514
Pinches are the hottest thing on earth. Probably the universe.
http://www.livescience.com/technology/060308_sandia_z.html

If I had pinch simulation code I would give it a try. Or if I knew how to properly apply the math.

GRB's, Supernova, Harbig-Haro, and certain stars are pinches.
Black holes are really white holes of electrons and protons.

[tusenfem]

EU is dead. By that you mean no electricity exists in space? Or what?


No, there are lots of currents and charges, etc. in space, I am a plasma(astro)physicist/space physicist, and I am not denying my own job.

What I mean is there is no EU theory with calculations and models.
I think that EU-ers on this board, e.g Upriver should put their money where their mouth is, and make an EU model of the sun.

It is getting tiresome to get the same wordsalat all the time of the EU bunch instead of some real math and physics.

[tusenfem]

1. I thought that these hard observations would, over time, settle questions of which stellar objects ultimately evolve to BHs.

3. The question of gravitons, and dark matter theories.

1. No, these hard observations tell us something about the supernova explosion. And we have a great deal of knowledge which objects evolve into a BH. However, IIRC the papers were on magnetars and pulsars.

3. So far it is not even clear whether gravitons exist, dark matter seems to be observed now in some way (don't have the link but it is somewhere on the board). But I expect that e.g. gravitons will have little to do with plasma physics.

[erich]

3. OK....then maybe GAUGE will provide the answers we need for gravitons, and Axions too:

http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/10/9/1

[Peter Wilson]

3. OK....then maybe GAUGE will provide the answers we need for gravitons, and Axions too:

http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/10/9/1And it is possible gravitons do not exist. (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=46069)

[Nereid]

erich, please read the PMs I have sent you, concerning making posts re EU.

[erich]

Ok ...... But I thought the GAUGE post was Kosher........or am I misunderstanding something?

[erich]

I had not noticed my personal messages, and wish to comply with your rules,

Question? If I see some item like this on another forum and post it because I think it very relevant to this discussion is that in violation?

Hypography Science Forums - Big Bang's Afterglow Fails Intergalactic 'Shadow' Test

http://forums.hypography.com/astronomy-news/8252-big-bangs-afterglow-fails-intergalactic-shadow.html#post130584

[Nereid]

I had not noticed my personal messages, and wish to comply with your rules,

Question? If I see some item like this on another forum and post it because I think it very relevant to this discussion is that in violation?

Hypography Science Forums - Big Bang's Afterglow Fails Intergalactic 'Shadow' Test

http://forums.hypography.com/astronomy-news/8252-big-bangs-afterglow-fails-intergalactic-shadow.html#post130584In this case, we already have a thread discussing it (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=46459), in the Astronomy section.

In general, if it's to do with astronomy, astrophysics, cosmology, or space science, there will already be a thread on it.

A good place to start is our own Universe Today Story Comments (http://www.bautforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=5).

You will see that several BAUT members are assiduous in bringing new results to BAUT, in the Astronomy section (http://www.bautforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=11).

Regarding EU ideas, this post (http://www.bautforum.com/showpost.php?p=821244&postcount=55) deserves repeating (with one edit, in bold):erich, it is, IMHO, impossible to prove, or disprove, any EU ideas!

Why? Because no proponent of any EU idea has ever produced anything, in the public domain, that is sufficiently specific, quantitative, etc as to allow any testing - whatsoever - of those ideas (or, to be complete, everything EU sufficiently specific or quantitative that has been produced has been thoroughly debunked, or has long since been part of mainstream astrophysics).

Of course, you will find lots of papers by Peratt, Alfvén, etc, cited on websites promoting EU ideas.

However, if you take the time to check these out, you will find that:
a) they are clearly inconsistent, internally, with well-established observations or experimental results, or (shock!) textbook plasma physics, or
b) they are thoroughly mainstream, or
c) they are too vague to be tested.

BAUT has an extremely long thread devoted to EU ideas, in its ATM section.

That thread, and its children, are as close to open and shut cases as you could ask for concerning the null scientific content of EU ideas .... and the pro-EU posts in those threads were written by some of the most ardent EU supporters!

If you, or any other BAUT member, wishes to present an EU case, in any specific domain, then you are more than welcome to do so. Please read this for guidance on how to go about making such a presentation.

[Nereid]

Ok ...... But I thought the GAUGE post was Kosher........or am I misunderstanding something?GAUGE is a serious mission.

However, as the articles noted, it is not yet approved, and if it flies according to its present timetable, won't until 2015.