How America stays on top despite cruddy a education system.

[Doodler]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/05/AR2006090501131.html

Now this made for an interesting read.


If you're looking for the action in education, forget the Ivy League. Talk instead to Anthony Zeiss, president of Central Piedmont Community College in Charlotte. It has six campuses and 70,000 students taking classes in everything from remedial English to computer networking. With about 12 million students, the nation's 1,200 community colleges help answer this riddle: Why do Americans do so badly on international educational comparisons and yet support an advanced economy?
At this back-to-school moment, the riddle is worth pondering. Those dismal comparisons aren't new. In 1970, tests of high school seniors in seven industrial countries found that Americans ranked last in math and science. Today's young Americans sometimes do well on these international tests, but U.S. rankings drop as students get older. Here's a 2003 study of 15-year-olds in 39 countries: In math, 23 countries did better; in science, 18. Or consider a 2003 study of adults 16 to 65 in six advanced nations: Americans ranked fifth in both literacy and math.

In trying to explain the riddle, let me offer a distinction between the U.S. school system and the American learning system

Sometimes, the best way to reach people is to wait till their ready to be reached. Or, better yet, until they need to reach out.

[TriangleMan]

But how much of the American economy is supported by those same people who did poorly on the original tests? America imports a lot of talent from other countries because it has better pay and benefits. In Canada the phenomenon is known as the 'brain drain': doctors, nurses and other professionals get their degrees then move to the US to work for better pay. A engineer that I know from GE in Atlanta says most of the 30+ engineers in his division were brought in from outside the US, from places such as India, China, Korea and Mexico.

I wonder if there is any data available on this :think:

[Ronald Brak]

Will lower levels of science and math education in the United States hurt the future relative performance of its economy? I think both yes and no. There is no real reason why America can't specialize in fields such as entertainment and law and remain economically productive. However, I fear that without a large segment of the population that is capable of applying scientific method, the decision making capability of society as a whole may be impaired. Policy decisions could end up being made on whatever makes the best slogan rather than rational thought or vested interests could sway policy through irrational appeals to emotion. If this ever happened in the United States it would be just terrible.

[Doodler]

Policy decisions could end up being made on whatever makes the best slogan rather than rational thought or vested interests could sway policy through irrational appeals to emotion.

Ehm, when has it NOT been like that? The last person that tried that in power was Jimmy Carter when he told people to put on a sweater.

The results weren't pleasant.

[Cougar]

I fear that without a large segment of the population that is capable of applying scientific method, the decision making capability of society as a whole may be impaired. Policy decisions could end up being made on whatever makes the best slogan rather than rational thought or vested interests could sway policy through irrational appeals to emotion. If this ever happened in the United States it would be just terrible.
You're being sarcastic, right? It is happening, and it is terrible.
The last person that tried that in power was Jimmy Carter when he told people to put on a sweater.
You're being sarcastic, right? Else I can't think of a worse and less deserved (http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/car0bio-1) example.

I think this is why BAUT has rules against partisan political pronouncements.

[Doodler]

I think this is why BAUT has rules against partisan political pronouncements.

It wasn't an endorsement or a criticism. To me, that would seem to be the last time a sitting President decided to tell the American people to face reality head on rather than hiding behind rhetoric and blameshifting.

If anything, it was a wry compliment.

[farmerjumperdon]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/05/AR2006090501131.html

Now this made for an interesting read.



Sometimes, the best way to reach people is to wait till their ready to be reached. Or, better yet, until they need to reach out.

A couple of possibilities here. First thing I would offer is the distinction between getting an education versus getting job training. The other distinction would be scoroing well on tests versus producing results.

The 2 distinctions may have some relationship, but I won't get into that because I'm not saying any one of those things is more important in the long run than any of the others. Just saying that comparing test scores and finding out the USA is not on top does not cause me to puzzle over how we can maintain a strong economy.

EDIT: And yes, I do think it is difficult to force people to learn if they are not ready or do not want to. That being said, I can not think of how anyone would be disadvantage by not always being open to learning. And having a distaste for learning is itself a learned behavior. We are all born with an incredibly high level of curiosity (part of survival) about the world around us. The behaviors we observe and model as children then determines the value we place on, and the hunger we retain, for learning.

[LurchGS]

FJD -

I must agree (don't tell anyone).

One thing I don't see is the raw data on those polls. How many students are involved from each venue? How many of those students are from non-local cultures? Two really important questions, I think since the answers would demonstrate huge skews in the overall results.

As for learning, my wife and I have spent the last 14+ years encouraging our boys to be inquisitive, to learn stuff just for the heck of it. There IS a cost for this attitude (stepping barefoot on 6 million clock parts that your 5-year-old left on the living room floor is not fun), but it's trivial compared to the joy of watching the joy of discovery.

I still get "why" questions (which makes me feel good), but more and more, I'm finding the little buggers looking up the answers on the internet, or tearing apart the copier...

Now, if only girls were that easy to understand