Element Collecting

[mickal555]

I have such nerdy hobby's

http://scotsons-shack.com/elements/index.htm

[yuzuha]

I periodically tried element collecting. Distilling bromine was fun, but it doesn't keep well, except in a sealed glass ampule... kept evaporating and eating stoppers out of anything I tried keeping it in (made a dandy aluminum etchant, though a bit too agressive). Still have some: lead, gold, platinum, silicon (seed crystal), tungsten, magnesium, carbon, sulfur, mercury, iron, nickel, copper, zinc, silver, tin, iodine (tends to slowly sublime and the fumes help corrode nearby metallic objects), polonium (if you count the tiny bit of Po 210 in my anti-static brush), cerium and lanthanum (mischmetal alloy). But some of them I only have in compound form like uranium, chromium, manganese, titanium, boron, lithium, sodium, potassium, strontium etc. but have never bothered to purify to elemental form, except for sodium and chlorine, neither of which keep well either). Have a few germanium diodes and old selenium rectifiers, but like the polonium, they are part of a manufactured product.

[mugaliens]

I prefer making compounds out of elements, preferrably employing the use of potato guns.

[mickal555]

Opps- just fixed up the brocken images. The pages look a lot better now.

I've only got two samples so far carbon and sulphur...

[Dr Nigel]

Just add saltpetre and you can have lots of fun!

(Just kidding. Don't do this at home, kids!)

[jrkeller]

The Houston Museum of Natural History has a periodic table containing all the elements. They actually have a very nice mineral collection too.

[Dr Nigel]

I've never bothered collecting elements, but I have used a few at work. The most interesting ones were lithium (it floats in oil, and I had to keep it under an Argon atmosphere), argon (for storage under inert gas) and mercury. A bottle of elemental mercury is surprisingly heavy (I know it is a heavy metal, but your intuition does not anticipate a bottle of liquid weighing so much!). I've also used elemental nickel as a hydrogenation catalyst (in the form of Raney nickel). This was rather entertaining, because it was a bit flammable, and would sometimes burst spontaneously into flame, especially if it was exposed to a good flow of air (like in fume cupboard).

I do more often use compounds, some of which are fun (e.g. Cobolt III chloride and Nickel II sulphate are very pretty colours, as is chromic acid - it's just a shame these things are so dangerous).

[Dr Nigel]

You can also buy such things as gifts.

For example:
http://www.element-collection.com/index.html

[mickal555]

I've never bothered collecting elements, but I have used a few at work. The most interesting ones were lithium (it floats in oil, and I had to keep it under an Argon atmosphere), argon (for storage under inert gas) and mercury. A bottle of elemental mercury is surprisingly heavy (I know it is a heavy metal, but your intuition does not anticipate a bottle of liquid weighing so much!). I've also used elemental nickel as a hydrogenation catalyst (in the form of Raney nickel). This was rather entertaining, because it was a bit flammable, and would sometimes burst spontaneously into flame, especially if it was exposed to a good flow of air (like in fume cupboard).

I do more often use compounds, some of which are fun (e.g. Cobolt III chloride and Nickel II sulphate are very pretty colours, as is chromic acid - it's just a shame these things are so dangerous).

Lucky!

Sounds like you have a fun job :D

I've just ordered some tungston(as dense as gold) and lithium(lightest metal) from ebay. I'm not sure how I'm going to store the lithium...

[mickal555]

You can also buy such things as gifts.

For example:
http://www.element-collection.com/index.html

Yeah- they're expensive though...

[Frog march]

Mercury's fun, my father has a jar of mercury, it is quite heavy, and if you have some you can float nails and stuff on it.

[mugaliens]

Lucky!

Sounds like you have a fun job :D

I've just ordered some tungston(as dense as gold) and lithium(lightest metal) from ebay. I'm not sure how I'm going to store the lithium...

In oil, Naptha, or a liquid hydrocarbon.

Coleman stove fuel is Naptha.

[Dr Nigel]

In oil, Naptha, or a liquid hydrocarbon.

Coleman stove fuel is Naptha.

Lithium tends to float on oil (although that is better by far than storing it dry), so is still exposed to the air. If you can keep it under nitrogen, that would be best.

[Dr Nigel]

Mercury's fun, my father has a jar of mercury, it is quite heavy, and if you have some you can float nails and stuff on it.

Aaaargh! Keep that bottle tightly sealed. Seriously.

[Dr Nigel]

Lucky!

Sounds like you have a fun job :D

Well, it's sometimes fun. To be honest, though, arranging for proper disposal of the waste nickel salts is a pain in the posterior. If I chuck it down the sink, we'll be closed down.

[mickal555]

Lithium tends to float on oil (although that is better by far than storing it dry), so is still exposed to the air. If you can keep it under nitrogen, that would be best.

If I wrap if in paper towls soaked in oil then stick in in a jar full of oil?

[Dr Nigel]

If I wrap if in paper towls soaked in oil then stick in in a jar full of oil?

That'll probably do the trick. I expect you will still get some surface reaction (lithium hydroxide, formed from reaction with moisture in the air) but this will be slow (i.e. it will take place in days rather than seconds so will not be hazardous). The reaction of lithium with water is not as violent as that of other elements from group 1 (e.g. sodium, potassium, rubidium).

[TriangleMan]

I've used pure chlorine gas many times back in my chemistry days -- very dangerous stuff. If collecting it only have a tiny, tiny sample in an airtight glass container. I assume Fluorine gas is even worse to handle.

[Ronald Brak]

If you hear eveyone boasting about how they are going to bring their uranium sample to the element collector convention, I can't stress enough don't go.

[Dr Nigel]

If you hear eveyone boasting about how they are going to bring their uranium sample to the element collector convention, I can't stress enough don't go.

BOOM!
:lol:

[Dr Nigel]

I've used pure chlorine gas many times back in my chemistry days -- very dangerous stuff. If collecting it only have a tiny, tiny sample in an airtight glass container. I assume Fluorine gas is even worse to handle.

Well, I've never used Fluorine gas, but since HF (which I have used as a dilute solution) is used to etch / dissolve glass, I would not fancy my chances keeping F2 gas in a glass container. I would imagine that PTFE is probably the best material to use to contain F2 gas.

And, by the way, I found the HF quite scary to use.

[mickal555]

Fluorine is going to be one of the hardest... Apparently doing some weird things to quartz is the only way you can keep in in a transparent container...

Btw- I've added solid sulphur to my list.

[Casus_belli]

Two african and one Indian is enough of a collection for me

[mickal555]

??

[Swift]

Fluorine is going to be one of the hardest... Apparently doing some weird things to quartz is the only way you can keep in in a transparent container...

Btw- I've added solid sulphur to my list.
No - fluorine will react with quartz or silica glass. Fluorine gas is very nasty stuff, I would not suggest casually collecting it. Collect it as a compound, such as the mineral fluorite (calcium fluoride).

[mickal555]

No - fluorine will react with quartz or silica glass. Fluorine gas is very nasty stuff, I would not suggest casually collecting it. Collect it as a compound, such as the mineral fluorite (calcium fluoride).
http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Samples/009.5/index.s12.html

Sadly the guy doesn't sell it anymore- but telflon is 75% fluorine by weight, that'll have to do for now I suppose...

[Swift]

I've used pure chlorine gas many times back in my chemistry days -- very dangerous stuff. If collecting it only have a tiny, tiny sample in an airtight glass container. I assume Fluorine gas is even worse to handle.
I saw a very cool, but somewhat dangerous demonstration in freshman chemistry (1976). The professor had a big (~0.5 meter high) bell filled with chlorine gas. It was a very light greenish-yellow. He then very quickly lifted the edge of the bell jar and tossed a piece of sodium metal in the bottom. You could see the wave front of the reaction move up the jar, converting the pale yellow gas to a snow storm of sodium chloride crystals. The class actually went "ooohhh!!". Then the prof says, "who wants to try it some of the salt?". No one volunteered, so he lifted the bell jar, swipped his wet finger through the cloud of salt, licked his finger, and ran out of the room (about as quickly as you are reading this). We all sat there wondering what was up, till the wave of un-reacted chlorine gas hit us about 10 seconds latter, and we all went running out too.

[jlhredshift]

My wife collects carbon, gold, and silver.

[Frog march]

My wife collects carbon, gold, and silver.

her rocks don't loose their shape....?





actually diamonds have a coating of hydrogen on their surface so I guess she collects that element also.

[Dr Nigel]

??

I think Casus_belli meant elephants...

[NEOWatcher]

Tusk, Tusk, Tusk :naughty: :D

[Casus_belli]

Tusk, Tusk, Tusk :naughty: :D

:lol: :lol: :lol:


I promise never ever to do that again:silenced:

[TriangleMan]

I saw a very cool, but somewhat dangerous demonstration in freshman chemistry.
The one that I recall best was making, I think, Tin (IV) Chloride using chlorine gas. The reaction was so exothermic that the tin would melt during the reaction. We had to keep sand in the bottom of the apparatus to put the tin on otherwise it would melt through the beaker.

[TriangleMan]

Well, I've never used Fluorine gas, but since HF (which I have used as a dilute solution) is used to etch / dissolve glass, I would not fancy my chances keeping F2 gas in a glass container. I would imagine that PTFE is probably the best material to use to contain F2 gas.
Just for the record I never said to keep fluorine gas in a glass container, that was only for chrloine gas. :)

[jlhredshift]

And, do not store your bag of deutrium/tritium next to your hyperboloid/paraboloid nested cylindrical mirror set, next to your PU(239) wrapped in C4 with equi-length copper wires going to a big red switch hooked to a battery!!!!

[mickal555]

Got my tungston rods in the mail today. They are so dense! got a lotta heft as my earth science teacher would say...

Going to add them soon.

[mickal555]

I've added the Tungsten rods...
Tungsten (http://scotsons-shack.com/elements/all/74tungsten.html)

[Dr Nigel]

Just for the record I never said to keep fluorine gas in a glass container, that was only for chrloine gas. :)

True, but you also said that you imagined that fluorine gas would be worse to handle. I think that would be a fair bet.

[Dr Nigel]

Oh, hey, on the topic of elements, have you guys seen the periodic table on the website of the Royal Society of Chemistry?

Look here:
http://www.chemsoc.org/viselements/pages/periodic_table.html

I think it's really cool.

[jlhredshift]

Oh, hey, on the topic of elements, have you guys seen the periodic table on the website of the Royal Society of Chemistry?

Look here:
http://www.chemsoc.org/viselements/pages/periodic_table.html

I think it's really cool.

Wow!!!!!! that is great.

[Swift]

Mickal, there are probably a couple you could add to your collection pretty easily, especially if you don't care about high purity. Aluminum foil for aluminum, cast iron for iron, certain coins for other metals (for example, older US pennies were almost all copper). Get an old solar powered something (calculator) and pull out the photovoltaic - its mostly silicon. Old pieces of silver or gold jewelry will be pretty close to pure (probably 90%).

Do drugstores still sell tincture of iodine? If so, you could let the alcohol evaporate and collect the iodine crystals.

[Dr Nigel]

Mickal, there are probably a couple you could add to your collection pretty easily, especially if you don't care about high purity. Aluminum foil for aluminum, cast iron for iron, certain coins for other metals (for example, older US pennies were almost all copper). Get an old solar powered something (calculator) and pull out the photovoltaic - its mostly silicon. Old pieces of silver or gold jewelry will be pretty close to pure (probably 90%).

Do drugstores still sell tincture of iodine? If so, you could let the alcohol evaporate and collect the iodine crystals.

Hmm, yes, but be aware that aluminium foil has a high tin content (hence it is aoften called tinfoil). Gold jewellery is only likely to be 90+% pure if it is 24-carat gold. The most commonly-avalable "gold" jewellery in the UK is 18- or 9-carat, which are significantly lower purity. I don't know if it is the same for you.

I would be very surprised if it were still possible to purchase a solution of iodine in alcohol (and I always used to think those solutions were aqueous - I2 in KI - but I've never used iodine as an antiseptic).

[mickal555]

I think aluminium in 1 yen coins have quite a high purity- most sites say 100% which they obviously aren't, but I think they're pure enough....
http://scotsons-shack.com/elements/all/13aluminium.html

I've also added my lump of coal to the carbon page...
http://scotsons-shack.com/elements/all/6carbon.html

[BigDon]

The one that I recall best was making, I think, Tin (IV) Chloride using chlorine gas. The reaction was so exothermic that the tin would melt during the reaction. We had to keep sand in the bottom of the apparatus to put the tin on otherwise it would melt through the beaker.

The good one that got out of hand was the sulfer and ground rubber mixture (can't recall in we put aluminum powder in there as well) in 11th grade chemistry. Teacher said it was the formula for crude rocket fuel. Add flame to about a tablespoon of said mixture and whoosh. After class, my friend Tom and I gathered up all the extra mixture for proper disposal but hit upon the idea of asking the teacher if we could light it. To our surprise he said, "Sure!". So we put it on one of those ceramic plates and had a pile about 6 inchs high. Quote of the day, "Mr. O'conner! The ceilings on fire!"

The ceiling was too high for the CO2 extinguisher to reach until my other friend Juan jumped up on the work station. The scorch mark stayed there for years.

[cjl]

Priceless :D

Not really that similar to the rocket fuel used today (current solid fuel is mostly ammonium perchlorate, with some aluminum and a rubber binder), but definitely HIGHLY flammable :D

[BigDon]

Ah, so powdered aluminum WAS part of the mix. This happened in 1977 so I was a bit unsure.

[mickal555]

Wish we got to do things like that these days, most dangerese thing we do is the flame test(but no longer with the spray bottles).

[BigDon]

Mikal, another of Mr. O'Conner's favorite tricks was during the "electrolysis of water experiment." He would bubble the hydrogen through a mixture of liquid soap and glycerin to get a nice foam. Then call for volunteers. Yeah right.

It was Juan again who volunteered and was told to scoop up a handfull of foam, (careful not to get it between your fingers!) and then touch the foam to a lit bunsen burner. You could hear the results all over the school. Even though it scared the tar out of everbody Juan said it didn't hurt. All day long you could hear the booms going off in different classes. One time the report was so sharp it broke a window. Those were the days.

[Maksutov]

Why do I get the feeling that we might not hear from certain thread participants in the future?

http://www.cosgan.de/images/midi/boese/c010.gif

[Casus_belli]

Why do I get the feeling that we might not hear from certain thread participants in the future?

http://www.cosgan.de/images/midi/boese/c010.gif


What? Is there something I should know before I start messing around with this bath-tub full of uranium hexafloride :madscientistsmillie:

[Swift]

What? Is there something I should know before I start messing around with this bath-tub full of uranium hexafloride :madscientistsmillie:
Yes, it might stain the porcelain.

[SeanF]

I have earth, water, and air, but I keep having to replace my fire...

[mickal555]

I have earth, water, and air, but I keep having to replace my fire...
:lol: You need one of those eternal flames ;)

I've just added bismuth (http://www.scotsons-shack.com/elements/all/83bismuth.html) next up will be lithium(when I've writen something about it..).

[Dr Nigel]

Why do I get the feeling that we might not hear from certain thread participants in the future?


Pardon?? Can't hear you, my ears are still ringing from reading BigDon's post....

[Dr Nigel]

Quote of the day, "Mr. O'conner! The ceilings on fire!"



Well, I never set the ceiling on fire, but I once had to scrape my reaction product off the ceiling...

I had done a dehydration reaction using phosphorus oxychloride (POCl3), and, in the reaction work-up, the protocol I was following said to wash with water (organic-aqueous extraction). What I had failed to notice was that my reaction mixture originally contained a 23x excess of POCl3...

When POCl3 reacts with water it makes three equivalents of HCl and one of phosphoric acid, and gets very vigorous - so I ended up staring at my product on the ceiling amid this slowly-spreading cloud of HCl gas.

Oooh! My 500th post!

[sarongsong]

I think Casus_belli meant elephants...A Wang Chung fan, perhaps http://www.bautforum.com/images/icons/icon7.gif...I've got an ornamental elephant made of ivory
The ornamental elephant element's in our soul... Ornamental Elephant (http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Ornamental-Elephant-lyrics-Wang-Chung/AD77284238276ADB482569750016D66C)

[mickal555]

Yey!

Just got my sodium in the mail today, (25g) I stuck a bit in some water and it just skidded around a bit, so I put a much larger chunk in (still a pretty small amount though) and it fizzled flamed exploded and blew water all over the place!

[BigDon]

And if you flush it down the toilet you'll blow out the plumbing. Though in the Navy I found out that flushing a slurry of dry ice with have the same effect without the dangerously caustic properties. (Raiding rival barracks)

[mickal555]

Well I've added an entry for both lithium (http://scotsons-shack.com/elements/all/3lithium.html) and sodium (http://scotsons-shack.com/elements/all/11sodium.html)

I'm working on gold next :D

[Tobin Dax]

I have earth, water, and air, but I keep having to replace my fire...

:lol: You need one of those eternal flames ;)

A Bangles CD can't be that hard to find. :D

[Dr Nigel]

A Bangles CD can't be that hard to find. :D


Oh, that's bad.


But in a good way...

[Dr Nigel]

And if you flush it down the toilet you'll blow out the plumbing. Though in the Navy I found out that flushing a slurry of dry ice with have the same effect without the dangerously caustic properties. (Raiding rival barracks)

Hmm, reminds me of a favourite trick in the labs:

Some irresponsible wag (never me, of course!) would put a dry ice chip in an Eppendorf tube (1.5-mL centrifuge tube with a flip-open type lid), seal it and then put it in someone's lab coat pocket. Once the gas pressure was high enough, the tube would pop open with the most almighty sound.

[Tobin Dax]

Oh, that's bad.

Thank you. :)

[BigDon]

Dr. Nigel, some really bad eggs in my 8th grade metal shop class would place lit cigarettes in people's coat pockets. As the coat rack was near the foundry area (where they melted and poured aluminum) the smoke and smell would go unnoticed for most of the class. This would completely ruin someone's jacket. The whole pocket and most of the lining of the jacket on that side would smolder away. Happened three times until the vice principal lectured the whole class and threatened the perpitrators with expulsion if caught.

[umop ap!sdn]

One time, back before I understood the difference between a covalent bond and an ionic bond, I tried reacting sodium bisulfite with calcium chloride to see if it would polymerize. Because calcium is divalent, so each calcium atom should replace 2 of the sodium atoms from adjacent molecules and form a chain, right? Wrong. I had to leave the room because the HCl gas was so overpowering. :doh:

Hey I liked the elephant joke! :D

[jfribrg]

Mercury's fun, my father has a jar of mercury, it is quite heavy, and if you have some you can float nails and stuff on it.

30 years ago when I was in high school we used to make little balls of mercury and roll them across the lab desk. I was equally amazed at the weight of a very small bottle and at the incredible surface tension of Hg.

[mickal555]

I've fixed the link to the alkali metal experiments...
http://scotsons-shack.com/elements/alkalimetals/alkalimetals.html

[davidlpf]

About flourine, I had proff. who is a flourine chemist and is post-doc days was handling flourine in fume hood and and when handling flouring had to have to valves to suck excess, one day he does not do this and a surge flourine I guess (was told this stroy a decade ago) came through and the flourine ate through the back metal of the fume hood, the asbestos and the brick on the outside wall, he actuall had to duck and crawl out of the lab. The next day he back doing the same experiment. the lessons were watch it with flourine and get back up on the horse.

[Dr Nigel]

Dr. Nigel, some really bad eggs in my 8th grade metal shop class would place lit cigarettes in people's coat pockets. As the coat rack was near the foundry area (where they melted and poured aluminum) the smoke and smell would go unnoticed for most of the class. This would completely ruin someone's jacket. The whole pocket and most of the lining of the jacket on that side would smolder away. Happened three times until the vice principal lectured the whole class and threatened the perpitrators with expulsion if caught.

Ooh, that's nasty. At least the trick with the dry ice did no lasting harm.

[Dr Nigel]

30 years ago when I was in high school we used to make little balls of mercury and roll them across the lab desk. I was equally amazed at the weight of a very small bottle and at the incredible surface tension of Hg.

I remember a lab-tech once telling me that it was imperative to remove all gold jewellry before using Hg. This is because Hg and Au very readily form an amalgum, and it is no trivial matter to separate them...

[collegeguy]

I've fixed the link to the alkali metal experiments...
http://scotsons-shack.com/elements/alkalimetals/alkalimetals.html

cool site