Another first timer with a NEED to look at the heavens

[lowmank79]

I was at Walgreens the other day and I saw a twenty dollar Vivitar telescope. Something clicked and I just had to have it. I called my wife so she could talk me out of it, it took her about a second to shoot me down, but I think it revived a childhood facination.

I must have been about five when my Dad took us to the McDonnel observatory. I vaguely remember going there but he tells me I asked so many questions the tour was running late.

I found this site because I listen to late night radio and Bad Astromomy rang a bell. I read the links in another post and with that information I'd like to ask some questions and maybe dumb it down for me.

I want to start out simple, a simple view of the Moon or Venus or Mars would be great. I'd like to look at close galaxies etc. I read that a good knowledge of celestial maps would be the first place to start. Can I go to Barnes and Noble and find something to start out with? To tell the truth, I just figured I could "point and click" with a cheap telescope and I'd be on my way.

Would it be worth it to buy the cheap guy and get a feel or would it be so bad that it would turn me off. When I do by a real scope what can I get for around $250? What about a telescope that would allow me to look at the mountians from my porch? Could that be done with eyepieces or would that be a different animal?

[Madam Captain]

Hello lowmank 79!! Welcome to the boards!! Its a good idea to start out with a cheap scope, so you can get a feel for it and get used to looking at things in the sky. A cheap scope will allow you to look at the moon and planets. As for looking at the mountains from your porch, this is also possible with a cheap scope and you don't need any different eye pieces or equipment. I would strongly recommend joining an astronomy club aswell so you can meet other people and use different scopes. My astronomy club allows members to borrow their scopes for free and this is how I became interested in the dobsonian reflector. I now own a 6 inch dob reflector but I started out with a smaller refractor (60mm).

[Tog_]

Welcoem to the board.

Thank your wife for saving you 20 bucks.;)

To get your feet wet, a good starting place is a pair of 10X50 binoculars. You can get a decent set for around 50 bucks. Add a 10 dollar Planesphere, and you're set to get started. You'll be able to poke around a bit, and see things like the moons around Jupiter, and most of the brighter deep sky objects.

Getting into a scope will run at least 150 for anything even close to decent. One of the first things to look for is the size of the eyepeices. They come in 0.96 inch, and 1.25 inch. If your scope only takes the small ones, skip it. Even if (big if), the scope is a good one, the odds of getting a descent EP in the small size is remote.

Second thing to look out for. Any scope that advertises the magnification in big bold letters on the side of the box is looking to suck in the unwary. Well most are. The Max power you can expect to use under ideal conditions is about 50 power per inch of aperture (lens or mirror) For a 60mm scope like the small goto scopes you find in camera stores and the like, this works out to be about 120 power. They willl often come with a 4mm eyepeice and a 3x barlow and proudly display 700 power on the box. You probably want a 26 and maybe an 18 or 12mm eyepeice to start with on a small scope, but anything smaller will probably give a very poor image.

Third thing to look for is the mount. The mount is very important becasue if it's not stable, you won't see anything anyway. Mainly, you jut want to be sure it is stable. Wood or metal legs are fine. Plastic legs are bad. if you can set it up before you buy it, just give it a tap on the side and see if it moves.

Goto vs Manual. As a personal preferance, I will always recommend a manual scope for a beginner. I also think it should be a law that everyone has to drive a car with a standard transmission before getting an automatic, so other may feel differently. My issues with Goto scopes have two main points. First, any money that goes into the controller and electronics didn't go into the mount and optics. Some goto controllers will boast of a 60,000+ object library including quasars and the like, then ship with a 60mm scope that can't see more than about 400 things on the list. My second issue is that a goto scope will let you see the sky, but it won't really let you learn the sky. Knowing M51 is cool to look at is one thing. Being able to actually find it, in any scope, or binoculars is another. Using a GPS doen't make you a mapreader.:p

For the money you are talking, your main optios will be a small (60-70mm) goto refractor. A 4.5 reflector in an equatorial mount (may or may not be goto), or a 6 inch or so reflector in a Dobsonian mount. The refractor is the one that looks like a telescope. With the right accessory (45 degree erecting prism) you will be able to use it in daylight and have up be up and left be left, like a spotting scope. Reflectors are a bit different in the day time. You will end up with either up or left being correct, but not both. In daylight you will also have a spot on the image that is caused by the secondary mirror. This isn't really noticed at night, but stands out in a big way in daylight.


Reflectors also need to be tweaked from time to time to keep the mirrors lined up. This isn't realy hard to do once you know how, but it does take some time and practice.

If you want to look at the mountains too, the refractor would be the way to go, I think. If you do get a goto, get some binoculars too. Let the scope find something then see if you can find where it's pointing.

Other opinions are sure to follow, so be sure to take them all in. If you can get to a public star party before you buy, (or talk someone else into buying), it will be worth it to see what types are out there, and what you can see with them. Biggest thing is to learn as much as you can before you buy.

[Kelfazin]

Tog pretty much nailed it. A decent set of binoculars is the best place to start. They're not that expensive, and they let you figure out what the sky is about. There are also lots of books and websites available that cover binocular astronomy (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=binocular+astronomy) in detail. If you don't want to try and hold the binoculars up the whole time you are outside you can also get a camera tripod and a tripod mount for the binocs. I actually found a way, using the tripod, to lay back in a lawn chair with my binocs positioned over my eyes, arms down on the armrests, and watch the stars drift through my field of view. I loved it.

One of the reasons binocs are recommended as a beginning is that if everybody with any interest went and picked up a $20 scope and tried to use it, they would be really disapointed. Thinking that astronomy isn't nearly as interesting as they hoped, they toss the scope and go back inside, never realizing that it was the scope that was garbage, not the science.

If you decide that, after you've spent some time with the binocs getting familiar with the sky, that you would like to proceed to the next step, then there are a few scopes you should look into. Tog had some great advice on what to watch out for when shopping for a scope. You also mentioned that you would want to look at Solar system objects as well as deep sky objects (to get used to terminology, things like galaxies, nebulae, star clusters, etc are called deep sky objects). Some scopes are better at deep sky vs. solar system, but any style will work for the casual observer. For example, a refracting telescope (one with lenses instead of mirrors) is best suited for viewing solar system objects, while a reflecting scope (mirrors instead of lenses) is better for deep sky observing. One of the cheapest (and effective) beginner level scopes you can buy is a 6" or 8" dobsonian mount reflector. (Check www.telescopes.com for some decent Orion brand dobs). You can a really good scope for a a couple hundred dollars.

One other caveat when it comes to deep sky objects. Unless you have a massive telescope taking long-duration pictures you're not going to see a galaxy like you do on the web. Deep sky objects, for the most part, are going to appear as faint fuzzy balls of light. For example, this picture of the Andromeda Galaxy (http://astropage.astronomy.net/img/and1.jpg) (our closest neighbor) is probably pretty close to what you will see in the eyepiece depending on the amount of light pollution in your area. But don't let that stop you. When you're looking at it, just keep in mind, the photons that are impacting your retina while you stare at that spot left Andromeda over 2 million years ago, travelling trillions of miles, just for you :)

[lowmank79]

Thanks for the input, I've already tripled what I knew before last night. I guess I'm going to start off with the binoculars and chart.
Jesse

[aurora]

Check the other threads in this group -- there are lots of links to beginner sites that have great advice on getting started.

[jouster]

Sorry for being an iconoclast, but I've always disagreed with the binoculars first view. I had a high quality pair (a gift from many years ago, unrelated to stargazing) that I tried when I was returning to astronomy, but I found that despite the pleasing wide-field views, I was just not able to hold them still enough - in any position - to avoid frustation. As soon as I moved to an EQ mount with an 80mm refractor, my experience was improved hugely. I got an excellent 80mm achromatic refractor for around $300. There is a large range of such scopes currently available. On a lightweight EQ, it performs just fine. It takes far higher mags than all but the most expensive binoculars but still has a decent field of view, and binos with comparable light-gathering capacity will be unusable without a good mount.

I gave up with the binos pretty quickly and just used the naked eye plus a planisphere before I got the scope.

[Charlie in Dayton]

If you haven't already made a purchase, might I suggest Orion's beginner stargazing kit? (http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=168141&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=) Normally, I'd say that 7x35 is a bit small (7x50 is more like it), but 7x35's are extremely utilitarian, if you don't like stargazing you can always use 'em at The Big Game, and the accessories in the pack by themselves are worth about $30.

Jouster details a common problem, steadiness over a long period with binos. This becomes more of a problem with bino size and weight. I could send you to numerous sites where you'd probably be tempted to spend some money, but...
Just try The Broomstick Trick...get an old broomstick, sit down, and gently rest the center post of your binoculars on the end of the stick. After about five seconds, you'll figure the tricks to get the binos right up to your eyes and angled properly. Need it higher? Rest the ground end on your toe. This is about as cheap as you can get...watch for someone throwing away a broom or old mop on trash day. If it's one of those that unscrews from the handle, you're in. You can go to the local handy dandy hardware store and buy utility stick extensions (usually in 16" lengths) that just screw in to the end of the broomstick (paint roller handle, or the like...those threads are an industry standard). I have a couple sets I bought in the dollar aisle at the local cheapo store. Four 16" lengths when I'm seated, five when I'm standing, and six when I'm looking at something directly overhead. Stuck a crutch tip from the drug store on one end for traction.

Just remember Rule #1 of binocular astronomy -- the strap ALWAYS goes around your neck...