Going to buy a new computer

[Tinaa]

I've got a bit over a $1,000 to buy a computer with printer/scanner. My husband likes to play some games, so we'll need a graphics card, but he's not into the multiplayer stuff. My daughters and I like music and digital photography. My older daughter will be using it for college internet classes. And I tend to spend a lot of time here buzzing around the internet (I love my RR). Should I wait until after Christmas or buy now?

Thanks for your suggestions.

EDIT: I work with Macs all day at work so I'm pretty good at troubleshooting and figuring them out. I've always had PCs her at home. I'm leaning toward PCs.

[Jeff Root]

My 90-degrees off-topic advice is to avoid giving any money to
Microsoft, if you can avoid it. I feel that the company should
not be rewarded for the dispicable business practices it has
gotten away with because of its near monopoly. See if you
can get a Mac or use Linux on a PC. Or get Windows in some
way that avoids transfer of funds to Microsoft. Like, get a
copy from a machine which is being trashed.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[RobA]

You've taken a good first step with setting budgets, and listing likely uses. Browsing the net, listneing to music and digital photography take very little strain on the CPU.

What sort of games does your husband play - although not multiplayer, does he have to have the latest First-person-shooter, or does he play ones a few years old - or maybe the other strategy type of games?

Based on what you've said thus far, I wouldn't think you'd need the latest brand-new model. See if you can buy something a year or 2 old - they're MUCH cheaper. Then you can use the saved money to buy more RAM (can NEVER have too much - get 512Mb or 1Gb), a big Hard Disk, and a DVD burner.

[Dragon Star]

My 90-degrees off-topic advice is to avoid giving any money to
Microsoft, if you can avoid it. I feel that the company should
not be rewarded for the dispicable business practices it has
gotten away with because of its near monopoly. See if you
can get a Mac or use Linux on a PC. Or get Windows in some
way that avoids transfer of funds to Microsoft. Like, get a
copy from a machine which is being trashed.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

:eh: Er...yea...whatever...that's not illegal or anything.

Anyhow, as mentioned before you have many options. Few questions for you to help narrow your search...

1). Do you WANT a high end system? Because with a $1,000-$1,200 budget it is well within your limits.

2). Do you necessairly want to spend your budget? Or will you go with the cheapest options available?

3). Are you considering getting a laptop? With your budget you can get a very nice one...as well as have all of your media portable.

4). Does your system need to be name-brand?

That should help us get a better idea.

[Musashi]

I've had good luck with Dell.

[Vermonter]

I've actually been able to spec out a faily decent gaming machine for about $1,000. Custom-built gaming machines can be cheaper if you shop around. As far as avoiding Windows, that is a personal opinion. Not too many games are compatible with Linux/OSX yet. I don't swear by Microsoft, but I do enjoy using their product. I agree with Dragon Star on this one, too. Desktops tend to be cheaper and you can get beefier parts in them, but there are some decent gaming laptops out there that won't break your budget.

[Hlafordlaes]

If your husband likes to game, and you decide on a PC, get a model carrying the Core 2 Duo from Intel (there is a low cost version), but avoid the similar-sounding Core Duo (no "2") ~ sincerely not recommended.

If you can specify the video card in the system or buy one seperately, take a look at the highest rated card in your price category on Anandtech or Tom's Hardware. NVidia's latest card is DX10 enabled (for Vista), but costs too much. A decent mid-range ATI card, perhaps with a TV tuner, might be a good choice.

[Vermonter]

Core 2 Duo - great choice, I'm using it now (2.4 GHz). I'd recommend 1-2 gigabytes of DDR2 dual-channel memory, and a 512 MB video card. I've had great luck with nVidia, and with the new DirectX 10 cards out, the 7900 series have become more affordable. I build comps for a hobby, including for myself and friends. Hard drive capacity is extremely cheap per gigabyte now - I picked up a nice SATA 320 GB drive for less than a Bennie.

[Dragon Star]

I've had good luck with Dell.

I'll tell ya, my Ag teacher had a Dell in his room...and by no means should a computer operate under the conditions that one did. I bet it had at least 2 inches of sawdust in it alone...and I can't imagine what the CPU and Heatsink looks like.:surprised But that thing keeps on running.

However I've heard some nasty tech support stories from them...

[Tinaa]

:eh: Er...yea...whatever...that's not illegal or anything.

Anyhow, as mentioned before you have many options. Few questions for you to help narrow your search...

1). Do you WANT a high end system? Because with a $1,000-$1,200 budget it is well within your limits.

2). Do you necessairly want to spend your budget? Or will you go with the cheapest options available?

3). Are you considering getting a laptop? With your budget you can get a very nice one...as well as have all of your media portable.

4). Does your system need to be name-brand?

That should help us get a better idea.

1). I want a system that the family can share.

2). This is a Christmas present from my dad to the family. He wants to spend $1,000-1,200. So yes, I want to spend all of it on the computer and peripherals.

3). I've thought about a lap top, but would really like to have a nice, fairly large LCD screen.

4).System does not have to be name brand.

I'm still using Windows98 SE with a eight year old monitor and speakers and the tower is probably older than that. I took the (7 yr old) printer apart because it stopped working. It works now but makes really weird noises and tends to lay down too much ink.

Hubby likes to play first person shooter, driving games (Nascar type) and general action games. He's love to play to newest stuff out..but I'm cheap. He does have an XBOX to play his games on. Can't have him taking over the computer just to play stupid games. ;-) Just joking to you gamers!

Stores are advertising the heck out of complete sstems but I KNOW there is lots of stuff on them we'll never use. How does one order only the stuff one wants on a system? Once I figure out what it is that I want that is.

[Dragon Star]

Well, if you are looking into buying a custom system...you have even more options.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=48

That site has a suggestion for a custom $1,000 system, which would cover all your needs except the physical tower and a screen, which would be easy to pick up. If you want a cheap but large screen, go to your 19", and if you don't mind cheap stores, try Wal*Mart. (http://www.walmart.com/search/browse-ng.do?ic=12_0&ref=125875.126127+500847.4293871498&catNavId=37802)

[Delvo]

For the digital photography (and to some extent for the games, if they're not the CPU/memory hog type of game), I'd say the area to emphasize (by which I mean that's where to put the money) is the monitor. Higher resolution is good for digital photographs.

Dell has great LCD panel monitors at great prices, so an emphasis on the monitor is likely to cause you to buy a Dell computer, at least if you like LCD panels... speaking of which, you owe it to yourself, not just for computer-use reasons but even for medical ones, to learn a lot about the difference between LCD and cathode-ray tube monitors. Eye strain is bad bad mojo. I could write another whole separate post on monitors alone, and it would be a long one...

[DOOMMaster]

Definitely buy now, if you plan on going the Windows route. With Vista coming out, especially with all the DRM (Digital Rights Management), who knows what you are going to be allowed to run soon. If your husband likes to play games, you should be able to get a good Core 2 system with 1GB of RAM and a decent video card for around $1K with a nice, large LCD screen.

I wouldn't bother with a Mac, all you end up doing is getting way less machine for your money or spending far more than what you should. Since you want to be able to play games, a Linux system is probably not your best bet, since very few games run on Linux. It really depends on how powerful of a system you want and if you really want to spend all $1K. Any cheap, low end system will serve you fine for web surfing and general computing like word processing. My main recommendation, though, would be to make sure it has at least 1GB of RAM. 2 GB of RAM is even better, you can never have enough RAM. You can customize your system at pretty much any major computer dealers website and get a price quote before you buy.

[Eta C]

If you go non-Mac, get a machine with an AMD processor vice an Intel one. The dual core Athlon 64 rocks. (I have one on my home machine, an HP.) AMD beat Intel to this technology and, as far as I know, is still ahead.

[cjl]

I have to say just the opposite from my experience. Although dual core athlons do rock, so far, I have yet to use one comparable to my Core 2 duo 2.4GHz. The Core 2 is AWESOME, and the processor I would recommend by far.

[suntrack2]

infact every electronics item one can only choose as a new and not a second hand computer, in my area most of the people prefer to choose the second hand computer only to get it into the cheap costs. But when we want a new and updated technology+best quality+good memory size+a nice warranty period with a good AMC (annual maintainence charges) we have to choose the right machine with a multidimensional aspects, as Tinna you are thinking above, that's a fine decision. :) I think music is must when we write on computer because it don't allow boreness on the computer while working. music infact decline the level of stress and keep our mood quite nice for happy working on the computer, headphone is not necessary but if someone is doing study nearby us then headphone is must, but if someone want to share our work or guide or detect the data etc then one can keep speaker aside with the terminal.

sunil

[Doodler]

A thousand bucks? No problem.

First, keep your existing monitor. Just buy a tower.

Second, head to Best Buy, or whatever passes for it in your area, head to the home computer section and by something for around 700 bucks. Believe me, if you're looking for a no brainer home box, a basic off the shelf model is going to be more than enough. You can argue the specs of various mother boards and chipsets till you're blue in the face, but the reality is, they all get the job done, some slicker than others. 700 should net you a pretty nice tower with a solid onboard sound system, a Pentium IV CPU in the 2.5-3GHz range, and enough HD space to store every MP3 known to man.

Third, pick up a nice 200 dollar graphics card. LOOK CLOSE. Be absolutely sure you get the right kind. Some computers use AGP cards, some use PCI-Express, some will make you go with a standard slot card. Most new boxes have one PCI-E, but don't hesitate to ask if you're not sure. nVidia's your best bet, since they're a little less tempermental in the software department than ATI Radeon. Though the reality is, with a little tweaking, you win either way. For the current generation of games, you'll want at least 256mb of video RAM. Again you can argue about pixel shaders and all the other doodads on the card, but again, you sound like your after a casual gaming box, so don't sit there and bind yourself over the specifics. Grab whatever in the 256MB range and call it a day. It'll still get the job done. If you go Radeon, when you install it, run the driver install program with it, then proceed forthwith to ATI's website and download a software called Catalyst. Run it, it will override the driver that came with the card, and then leave it be. Just using the Catalyst manager with the Radeon card will resolve almost all headaches that could come up with, and if you feel adventurous, you can even diddle the dials and jazz up your card's performance (may I recommend an air conditioning vent within 2 feet of your tower or an open window with a blizzard blowing outside in the event you want to do this. Overheating may result otherwise)

Finally, take a look at the specs on your tower. This last exercise is the ONLY time you'll be worried about the specs. The odds are, being an off the shelf job, it'll only have 512MB of RAM. This is not acceptable. Pick up another 512MB stick which should slide in around 100 bucks. Be absolutely sure you match the RAM you buy to the kind of RAM your machine uses. PC3200, PC2700 whatever, whatever it is, just make sure you sweat this one detail. This pushes you to 1GB of RAM, which will cover about 80% of the games and software on the market.

This is the core of Doodler's home box. I spent slightly more than 1000 on this because I went with the 400 dollar 512MB x1600 Pro ATI Radeon, and I've since bumped up to 2.25GB of RAM. Other than that, my computer is a 700 dollar stock model Gateway Cowputer which has given me precisely zero headaches since putting it online.

[Moose]

Doodler's advice is good, Tinaa. You don't need to do anything else. A tweaker who is worried about framerates down to the single-digits might do better or cheaper with a homebrew (usually not both, though), but it's not really worth the effort unless you truly enjoy that sort of thing.

NVidia or ATI are the only video cards you want. The rest aren't even worth considering. Especially if your hubby likes FPS and racing games. You don't have to go top of the line, though. Anything <i>currently supplied</i> by ATI or NVidia will do the job just fine.

Really, I can't add anything to what Doodler has already said. Right now, it's all about the RAM and getting the peripherals that'll do what you want to do. The rest are just irrelevant salescritter selling points.

[Laguna]

As for the Core 2 Duo:
Be sure you get one with the new conroe core (6600 and up). Not one with the older Allendale core (6300 and 6400).
These conroes are the miracle CPUs.

[Doodler]

Eh, well, one additional note. When you pick your box, look real carefully at what its got installed. I kinda spit a few nails when I realized my new machine didn't come with a 3.5" floppy drive. Not that I use them much, but I do have a few old games on them, and they're currently sidelined.

Technically, they're considered obsolete, so if you do upgrade, be sure anything important you might have on a floppy drive gets to something more up to speed. I estimate we're probably going to see CDs go bye bye in a computer generation or so.

[Dragon Star]

I didn't have 3.5 on my system either (ordered it without it) smartest thing I've done in a while...and I'm still in school. I just send my work through mail between PC's, much more reliable anyways.

If you're dependent on 3.5, it's time to trade in the fossil. lol

[Doodler]

On a day to day basis, I don't. However, a few of us computing fossils who remember what it was like when we actually commanded these machines for ourselves, instead of letting the Ubergeek of Redmond act as a misinterpreter, have a few relics we like to break out from time to time.

[snarkophilus]

Of course, this being a science forum, let's back up all these opinions with some hard data.... :)

Comparing processors: http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html Intel's new chips are far and away better... but that said, you probably don't want the absolute newest, so it's pretty much a price/performance comparison. AMD processors are traditionally cheaper, but....

There's an interesting article here: http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html which basically states that you can pick up a Core 2 Duo E6400, the $220 scaled-down version of the top chip out there now, and overclock it to the point that it's comparable to the $1000 chip without much effort.

But, note that that article concludes
A quick look at the game benchmarks indicates that any increase in processor cost, including money spent on cooling in the pursuit of top clock speed, would be better spent on a top graphics card.

So, for help there
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/10/31/the_best_video_cards_for_your_money/
That's what will need to be replaced first, by the way. If you pick up an inferior card and plan on getting new FPS games, you'll need to replace it within a year or so. Going middle to high end ought to last 3 or 4 years, at least. There's a similar chart to the CPU one, but for video cards: http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html

Regardless, you should probably go PCIe for video card, because they're not going to make AGP cards for long, and if three years from now even you have a bunch of games that struggle on your old video card, you probably still won't need to upgrade your processor.

[Doodler]

Regardless, you should probably go PCIe for video card, because they're not going to make AGP cards for long, and if three years from now even you have a bunch of games that struggle on your old video card, you probably still won't need to upgrade your processor.

AGPs are probably on their last legs, but don't rule out the 32bit standard slot dual cards. I've seen paired cards smoke even PCI-Es.

[Dragon Star]

I have a friend with a custom system (you talk about nuts, custom box, LED's, 8 HUGE box fans, liquid cooled CPU, the whole bit) which he says pushes 4 GHz (and yes, that's reliable)...totally insane. He estimated his funds to be around $4,000. When he kicks his computer off the lights get bright in his house. 0.o

[Thanatos]

Windows is still a very good platform, despite the evil empire allegations. Bill Gates created the biggest charity ever and does many good things that help many people. I think the guy is a saint and has stuck to his guns from day one. He brought computers to the people and created a platform that enabled us to argue with each other. We all have a voice here and can communicate with each other world wide. I think that is a fantastic achievement. Microsoft, like all other corporations, has ticks who place their personal priorities ahead of all else. So what, every company has people like that. That is not Bill Gate's fault, just the ugly reality of doing business in the USA. My 2c worth. I think he made the world a better place, and may have saved humanity with what he has accomplished.

[suntrack2]

The buyer of the computer can also make a compressive insurance of the machine, in case of any damage or say electronics failure beyond the warrantee period, and then such insurance is helpful. Confirm about the conditions from the local machines insurance authorities. This is always good to do the insurance of the commodities, which are precious and most important. I don't know what is the practice thereon.

Sunil

[farmerjumperdon]

Gads. Definitely be back for this kind of advice when I buy again.

I did just replace my printer. Even though it is still under warranty (barely), it is not worth fixing, because it is also out of ink. New ink cartridges would be about $50. A new printer that does all the same things, with identical specs (and ink!) cost me $48.

So it appears the cheaper printers are free and they make money selling you the ink. My guess is that on the high end things are different, but my $48 machine prints very nice pictures.

I spent $300 5 years ago, replaced it 2 years ago for $80, and replaced it last week for $48. All machines very similar in specs and performance.

[Moose]

My graphics arts friend calls them "disposable printers" because of that phenomenon. Just one thing to remember, though. The starter ink cartridge that comes with a printer contains less than 1/3 the ink of a replacement pack. The margins on replacement ink are so high, that it's worth practically giving you the printer for the lock-in.

Next time I go for a printer, I'm going to seriously consider an inexpensive (or second-hand) laser just to avoid that foolishness.

[suntrack2]

Gads. Definitely be back for this kind of advice when I buy again.

I did just replace my printer. Even though it is still under warranty (barely), it is not worth fixing, because it is also out of ink. New ink cartridges would be about $50. A new printer that does all the same things, with identical specs (and ink!) cost me $48.

So it appears the cheaper printers are free and they make money selling you the ink. My guess is that on the high end things are different, but my $48 machine prints very nice pictures.

I spent $300 5 years ago, replaced it 2 years ago for $80, and replaced it last week for $48. All machines very similar in specs and performance.


yes Sir, always taking advice from the experts in the concern's field is a good thing before every precious purchasings. we have to be cautious and curious about every buyings of the commodities multidimensionally. today's customers are really intelligent in choosing and buying the commodities very well, they are really acquainted with all those things.

[Moose]

The buyer of the computer can also make a compressive insurance of the machine, in case of any damage or say electronics failure beyond the warrantee period, and then such insurance is helpful. Confirm about the conditions from the local machines insurance authorities. This is always good to do the insurance of the commodities, which are precious and most important. I don't know what is the practice thereon.

Sunil

Sorry Sunil, but getting the optional extended warranties is an utter waste of money.

1) First off, getting the store to acknowledge you have the extended warranty after the fact can be a real challenge sometimes.

2) Second, there's a well known statistical distribution that describes consumer electronics failures. It's called the washbasin distribution. What it says is that most consumer electronics and appliances either fail well within the basic warranty period (called "burn-in"), or last well outside of the extended warranty period.

3) There's a reason electronics stores try so hard to get you to buy them. It's like shoe-polish or leather spray at shoe stores. Very high margins if they can get you to spring for it. That means conversely, you're overpaying for something you probably won't ever need.

You only insure what you can't afford to replace and can't afford to lose.

[Ilya]

I like HP computers, but I hate their customer support. They made a mistake on my record (recorded me having a computer model different from what I actually have), and would not correct it. Any problem call I had could not get resolved because their database would pull up information not matching my model, and customer support people had not way (or claimed not to have a way) to change that database entry. It was never fixed, and I never got any meaningful "customer support" on that particular computer. Also, PSC 1350 printer I bought was not working right; after a LONG support call I got a free replacement, and THAT one did not work either! Right now I am on my third PSC 1350 printer, and it STILL has a problem (prints test page every time it is turned on), but I am so sick of HP "support" I just live with it.

Incidentally, this is NOT an argument for outsourcing customer support to India -- all "flowchart robots" I had the misfortune to deal with had Indian accents!

[suntrack2]

thanks moose, your all 3 points are correct.

most of the people or say customers relent upon only the warrantees given on the product, they never or rarely do the insurance of the product which they have purchased like computer, most of the customers or users of the computer use the machine say for 1 or 2 years and later in use and throw decision they buy another computer in case of their 1st computer failed to serve them better, I have seen here that number of people buy second hand computers and even assembled computers with a stickers on the new plastic cabinet with a fine stickers onto it. the assembled computers are very cheap in cost, but their results are not wise. Hence for anyone who prefer to buy a computer then they have to choose for the most updated versions with good printer and with a good GB capacity. dust is a enemy of computer, hence the computer must have to keep away from the dust. even sometime the poor IC creates problem for computer for its' performance.

[Doodler]

Gads. Definitely be back for this kind of advice when I buy again.

I did just replace my printer. Even though it is still under warranty (barely), it is not worth fixing, because it is also out of ink. New ink cartridges would be about $50. A new printer that does all the same things, with identical specs (and ink!) cost me $48.

So it appears the cheaper printers are free and they make money selling you the ink. My guess is that on the high end things are different, but my $48 machine prints very nice pictures.

I spent $300 5 years ago, replaced it 2 years ago for $80, and replaced it last week for $48. All machines very similar in specs and performance.

Heh, I always loved that scam... Decent printers are dirt cheap, the cartridges, however, cost almost as much as the danged printer. :eh:

[farmerjumperdon]

My graphics arts friend calls them "disposable printers" because of that phenomenon. Just one thing to remember, though. The starter ink cartridge that comes with a printer contains less than 1/3 the ink of a replacement pack. The margins on replacement ink are so high, that it's worth practically giving you the printer for the lock-in.

Next time I go for a printer, I'm going to seriously consider an inexpensive (or second-hand) laser just to avoid that foolishness.

I did notice that. I was standing there looking at the displays and wondering why on Earth I should buy ink for the cost of a printer and ink. Then I read the fine print. I think the machine came with 2 cartridges of 5ml each. The replacements I needed were 4 10ml cartridges.

So they probably gave me about $20 worth of ink (at retail), making the all-in-one cost about $30. I'll probably continue to but ink as long as the machine is under warranty. I would definitely not pay to repair it though.

[farmerjumperdon]

Sorry Sunil, but getting the optional extended warranties is an utter waste of money.

1) First off, getting the store to acknowledge you have the extended warranty after the fact can be a real challenge sometimes.

2) Second, there's a well known statistical distribution that describes consumer electronics failures. It's called the washbasin distribution. What it says is that most consumer electronics and appliances either fail well within the basic warranty period (called "burn-in"), or last well outside of the extended warranty period.

3) There's a reason electronics stores try so hard to get you to buy them. It's like shoe-polish or leather spray at shoe stores. Very high margins if they can get you to spring for it. That means conversely, you're overpaying for something you probably won't ever need.

You only insure what you can't afford to replace and can't afford to lose.

I agree with a couple exceptions. Anything that is really going to take a beating (such as my daughter's MP3 player), consider that the plan might be worth it. For $13 I insured a $100 2 gig player for 2 years. I think the factory warranty was only 90 days, and I agree that if it is going to break due to defect, it will probably happen quickly. But she is going to wear it skiing, trampolining, bicycling, calf-roping, etc. I'm giving odds of 4-5 that I get to use that insurance.

The other things are new technologies and machines with a lot of moving parts. I did get it on our home theatre (primarily because of the disc changer) and it has been in twice. I would never purchasde it on a TV, refrigerator, receiver, electric fence transformer, etc.

[mugaliens]

My 90-degrees off-topic advice is to avoid giving any money to
Microsoft, if you can avoid it. I feel that the company should
not be rewarded for the dispicable business practices it has
gotten away with because of its near monopoly. See if you
can get a Mac or use Linux on a PC. Or get Windows in some
way that avoids transfer of funds to Microsoft. Like, get a
copy from a machine which is being trashed.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

Hi, Tinaa. You identified your needs as: "My husband likes to play some games, so we'll need a graphics card, but he's not into the multiplayer stuff. My daughters and I like music and digital photography. My older daughter will be using it for college internet classes."

Both Macs and PCs will work just fine. XP is extremely stable, and combined with Symantec Antivirus, a hardware-based firewall (preferrably Linksys, a Cisco company), and anti spyware (Spybot's pretty good and last time I checked still free), you're good. Remember to turn on Windows Firewall as an additional measure of protection and if you're using wireless, make sure you enable WPA with the full-length key. WPA-II is out, which is even better.

I'm a member of several "Hack Me!" sites, and to date, they haven't broken in yet, (although they've tried many times, according to my log) so I think you're pretty safe if you use this approach.

Total cost: Less than $1,500. If you want a 21" monitor for the photography, I'd highly recommend it, and whatever you do, don't skimp on the graphics card, as almost all stills and video is processed on board that card! You should not spend more than $200 more on the card, though, as that amount will give you a tremendous boost in graphics capabilities.

[Tinaa]

Thanks for all the help.

Let me see if I have this correct considering my needs: Walk into into an electronics store and find a nice PC with lots of RAM and ask the store to put in the video card I have selected.

[Moose]

Pretty much. :)

[farmerjumperdon]

More on my printer adventures.

So I naturally played with my new printer a bunch right away. Made enough prints to run the factory supplied ink low already. Went to get ink. 1 each of the tricolor and photo cartridges cost a total of $40. (For a $48 printer). Cool. For buying 2 cartridges I got a free ream of paper, 500 sheets.

So now they are practically giving away the printers, and they are giving away the paper, all you gotta do is buy the ink.

Amazing.

[Doodler]

Thanks for all the help.

Let me see if I have this correct considering my needs: Walk into into an electronics store and find a nice PC with lots of RAM and ask the store to put in the video card I have selected.

Happy Surfing. :)

[Swift]

More on my printer adventures.

So I naturally played with my new printer a bunch right away. Made enough prints to run the factory supplied ink low already. Went to get ink. 1 each of the tricolor and photo cartridges cost a total of $40. (For a $48 printer). Cool. For buying 2 cartridges I got a free ream of paper, 500 sheets.

So now they are practically giving away the printers, and they are giving away the paper, all you gotta do is buy the ink.

Amazing.
Sort of the same thing happened with cell phones. Early on, the phones were pretty expensive, particularly the newest models, but you certainly paid for any phone. Now, unless you want a specific, high end phone, you can get a free one (and usually with a bunch of features), just for signing up for a plan. That's because they make all their money with the service, not the phone. They are happy to give you for free a phone that can text, take and send pictures, download mp3s, etc., because all of those services will cost you and make more money for the phone company.

Maybe when gasoline hits $20 or $25 a gallon, the oil companies will give cars away if you buy their gas? :dance:

[farmerjumperdon]

And taken to a logical extreme, the energy companies might soon give away ANYTHING that consumes energy.

Could happen.

[Delvo]

Where have y'all seen these $40 printers? I searched all the websites I know of for printers a while ago and found them only from about $100 and up... which was odd because the one I was thinking of replacing was $60 several years ago.

And what was that about getting a "laser" printer to avoid the ink costs? Is that toner powder they use cheaper than liquid ink?

[Dragon Star]

Thanks for all the help.

Let me see if I have this correct considering my needs: Walk into into an electronics store and find a nice PC with lots of RAM and ask the store to put in the video card I have selected.

Yep, that works. Go with 1 gig unless you plan on upgrading to Windows Vista in the future on that system, in which case go ahead and go to 2 gig.

After that, get a nice, purdy screen (you probably want a 19 inch) and you're all set. ;)

[Musashi]

Where have y'all seen these $40 printers? I searched all the websites I know of for printers a while ago and found them only from about $100 and up... which was odd because the one I was thinking of replacing was $60 several years ago.

And what was that about getting a "laser" printer to avoid the ink costs? Is that toner powder they use cheaper than liquid ink?


Lexmark has cheap printers:

Link (http://www.lexmarkstore.com/store/lexmark/DisplayCategoryProductListPage/categoryID.1438400)

[ciderman]

I'm looking for a new flat screen monitor tomorrow, probably 19", not too pricey & would like too hang it from beneath a shelf to really save on desk space.
Any recomendations/avoid at all costs?

[Moose]

Lexmark has cheap printers:

Link (http://www.lexmarkstore.com/store/lexmark/DisplayCategoryProductListPage/categoryID.1438400)

But the ink cartridges are by far the most expensive. When I'd been printer shopping, my graphic arts friend warned me quite explicitly to avoid Lexmark.

Delvo, The HP bulk laser sitting on the desk behind me carries toner cartridges that do well over 10,000 "normal" pages each. (20,000+ sparse pre-printed tax forms is typical.) Laser toners are more expensive, and need some ventilation if you're doing bulk jobs, but they don't dry up the way inkjets do. They're refillable, and the corporate market won't tolerate being gouged the way Joe Consumer does, so there's plenty of real competition to keep the prices more reasonable.

[Doodler]

I'm looking for a new flat screen monitor tomorrow, probably 19", not too pricey & would like too hang it from beneath a shelf to really save on desk space.
Any recomendations/avoid at all costs?

Dell makes a nice 20" flatscreen for about $500 bucks. We tried a widescreen version out at the office and none of the management liked how they looked running AutoCAD. When we were going to return them, they offered them to us at $400 bucks if we could find buyers, so I snagged one.

Beautiful gaming monitor. 1680x1050 native resolution.

[ciderman]

Tommorow has turned into thursday.
So don't worry abaut any advice being too late:D
Even at generous exchange rate that's a bit more than my budget, thanx though Doodler.
Thinking more £100-150 ($200-300?)

[Musashi]

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-4568

I have 2 of those. I am very happy with them. They are ~$300. They offer a lesser version of it for about $200.

[tbm]

Your stated needs are pretty much in line with what mine were when I bought my 17"iMac Core2 Duo. Games play great, OS X is what Vista wants to but never will be and the footprint is minimal.

Being Mac savvy, you don't have to be told that over time, the Mac will have more legs than a comparable Dell or similar machine.

tbm

[cjl]

And there's where I have to disagree. In all my experience, macs are slower and more prone to crashing than PC's. On the other hand, I have had extraordinarily bad luck with macs, so take that with a grain of salt...

[Delvo]

"Apple versus conventional computer & OS" should be declared a religious topic and banned...

[Doodler]

"Apple versus conventional computer & OS" should be declared a religious topic and banned...

:D:D:D:D

hehehehehe

[tbm]

"Apple versus conventional computer & OS" should be declared a religious topic and banned...

'Tis true! We all know that Bill Gates is really Satan and is gaining worldwide dominion through the information gained through Windoze.

On the other hand, Apple worshippers have STEVE JOBS to thank for giving Windoze users continuing reasons to wish for an OS as perfect as OS X, but will forever be disappointed........

JUST KIDDING............REALLY!!!!

tee-bee-em

[Doodler]

Mac as Heaven and Windows as Hell works out pretty well as an analogy.

Think about it. What do Mac users have to do other than to sit around congratulating each other on having a wonderful OS when no one bothers writing software for it? Its like heaven, nothing to do but sit around counting lint hairs while basking in the glow of Creators' ego.

Blessed are the Mac, for they shall inherit the Internet

:D

[tbm]

Mac as Heaven and Windows as Hell works out pretty well as an analogy.

Think about it. What do Mac users have to do other than to sit around congratulating each other on having a wonderful OS when no one bothers writing software for it? Its like heaven, nothing to do but sit around counting lint hairs while basking in the glow of Creators' ego.

Blessed are the Mac, for they shall inherit the Internet

:D

I'll take the high road and not let this degenerate into another Mac vs. PC debate. Suffice to say that us Mac users have an adequate and growing supply of quality software that allows us to work in an environment full of Windows software of which a good percentage is either redundant or just plain schlock. I've been using both platforms for nigh on 20 years and prefer the Mac. "To each his own" said the old lady as she kissed the cow.

tbm

[Mister Earl]

You can get a very nice deal off of most major builders websites. Look for refurbished systems... sure, they're pre-owned, but they have been rebuilt and have warrenties, and you can get a nice system with your money than a brand new one. That'll leave you extra for upgrades/options.

[mugaliens]

Thanks for all the help.

Let me see if I have this correct considering my needs: Walk into into an electronics store and find a nice PC with lots of RAM and ask the store to put in the video card I have selected.

Well, to a point.

The best way to go is to find an older teen who's on the ninth system he's built, and pay him $100 to build you the most screaming machine on the planet for $1,000 or less.

Let him do the skullsweat.

[Tinaa]

The high school here does have a computer engineering class and they do repair and build computers. Hmmm...I bet this could make a good project for a couple of them. I'll holler at the teacher when school starts back up.

[suntrack2]

Tinna Tai ( tai is a word next to sister, but in marathi, it is normally use for the elder sister in the home)

uptill, which advise you like the most beautyful advise in this thread!!.

sunil

[Dragon Star]

Well, to a point.

The best way to go is to find an older teen who's on the ninth system he's built, and pay him $100 to build you the most screaming machine on the planet for $1,000 or less.

Let him do the skullsweat.

Yep. That's the ticket.