Groundbreaking Study: Teens dangerous drivers

[soylentgreen]

Another of in a long line of unecessary studies...
Phones, passengers, fatigue put teen drivers at risk (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/25/teen.driving.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories)

Ninety percent of teens said they rarely or never drive after drinking or using drugs...

That's nice!

Spend a few moments at your local mall food court...do you feel comfortable sharing the road with these children?

I stand by my conviction that the learning/practice time frame for drivers is way too short, the violation penalties on them too lenient in that crucial 'first sharing the road with other human beings who value their safety' period and one driver's test per lifetime is not enough!

[Dragon Star]

Don't be so biased in your opinion man, there are kids out there who aren't idiots, ya know...I happen to be one of them, and to hear you cliche' me with them really ruffles my feathers. You refrence the ability to drive with behavior with friends on a mall? Get real, that's totally silly. Listen to yourself.

Going shock and awe militant style on kids isn't the way to go. Education is how you influence...blame the schools and the parents, not the kids.

[Doodler]

Don't be so biased in your opinion man, there are kids out there who aren't idiots, ya know...I happen to be one of them, and to hear you cliche' me with them really ruffles my feathers. You refrence the ability to drive with behavior with friends on a mall? Get real, that's totally silly. Listen to yourself.

Going shock and awe militant style on kids isn't the way to go. Education is how you influence...blame the schools and the parents, not the kids.

Ok, calm down. First off, its not your intelligence, its your experience. Secondly, this study targets your age group not out of strict chronological age, but because of the amount of time you've potentially been legally allowed to operate vehicles. Even an adult like myself who wasn't licensed until he was 24 would fall under that study in the first few years of his driving experience.

There's a lot of acrimony possible here that really isn't necessary. Its not about how you enjoy the last few years of your childhood, its about how well you handle yourself.

Believe me, those distractions they mentioned apply at all levels of driving, someone was being a twit to specifically target teens. I've seen people, men and women (I see more women on the phone at the wheel, though neither gender is all that great at driving while chatting) who can't drive for crap when they're in their 30's and up because they've got a damned cell phone stuck to the side of their head. I prefer driving alone, because some people I ride with simply can't keep their mouth shut in the passenger seat when they've got a captive audience, and there've been numerous seriously fatal accidents involving adult drivers utterly exhausted behind the wheel of a car.

To say that "teens are worse" because of those three elements lacks sincere perspective. Given those distractions, nobody is much good behind the wheel.

[Dragon Star]

Ok, calm down. First off, its not your intelligence, its your experience. Secondly, this study targets your age group not out of strict chronological age, but because of the amount of time you've potentially been legally allowed to operate vehicles. Even an adult like myself who wasn't licensed until he was 24 would fall under that study in the first few years of his driving experience.

There's a lot of acrimony possible here that really isn't necessary. Its not about how you enjoy the last few years of your childhood, its about how well you handle yourself.

Believe me, those distractions they mentioned apply at all levels of driving, someone was being a twit to specifically target teens. I've seen people, men and women (I see more women on the phone at the wheel, though neither gender is all that great at driving while chatting) who can't drive for crap when they're in their 30's and up because they've got a damned cell phone stuck to the side of their head. I prefer driving alone, because some people I ride with simply can't keep their mouth shut in the passenger seat when they've got a captive audience, and there've been numerous seriously fatal accidents involving adult drivers utterly exhausted behind the wheel of a car.

To say that "teens are worse" because of those three elements lacks sincere perspective. Given those distractions, nobody is much good behind the wheel.

My point exactly.

[Fazor]

Teen driver's have more accidents then older more experienced drivers! Holy jamacian jumping beans batman! So there *IS* a reason we here in the insurance industry charge them more for coverage! Maybe now that they have had this "new" study we can raise rates even more! After all, it's completely differnt than the studies that the insurance industry has done for decades!

Wait wait wait...now that you mention it, I think I may have possibly already known this fact.... (Got to love pointless studies).

[Aerik]

More teens should be taught to get the **** off their cell phones no matter what 'the other adults' are doing, and to ****ing pull over to the side of the road if they drop something and just have to learn over to pick it up. A guy I knew since kindergarten died because he leaned over with his head way down to pick something up.

[Nicolas]

Hi aerik.

Just a note that also censored swearing is not allowed here. That said, you make 2 good points but they count for any driver. I've seen people of all ages driving&calling, and I know some people of many ages who had accidents by picking something up. Phoning, drinking, medications, distractions, fixing your looks, picking things up,fatigue... you find it in all ages. Though for new drivers, inexperience adds to the sum a lot. Even when nog doing any of the list above, a lack of experience makes driving a lot more dangerous. I know that very well, have experienced it myself (and still do, actually).

[Doodler]

A story written on September 13th 2001 indicated that most men were more worried about being run over by women driving minivans while talking to their girlfriends about the fears over terrorism than they were over terrorism itself.

[farmerjumperdon]

Teenager are, as a group, very dangerous on the road. It mostly has to do with lack of experience. The programs for learning are weak. For most kids, their first training on how to handle an emergency is in the middle of a real emergency. It's really quite ridiculous when you think about it.

The programs really are more of a familiarization with the car and it's controls, with almost no chance to experience loss of control, or the skills necessary to recover.

My daughters are 7 and 9, and already have a good amount of driving experience under their belt (on private property). I am doing everything I can to make sure that when they hit the public roadways they are as prepared as is reasonably possible to manage whatever comes at them without panic.

Why do I do this? Because the #1 cause of death for people 16 to 19 is automobile accidents. Not just by a little either, but by about 3 to 1 over the next killer on the list.

I also take the opportunity as often as it comes up to point out kids who made the mistake of getting in the car with friends that display poor judgement and ended up killing themselves and/or friends. Those roadside crosses are very sobering learning tools.

[Neverfly]

Teenager are, as a group, very dangerous on the road. It mostly has to do with lack of experience. The programs for learning are weak. For most kids, their first training on how to handle an emergency is in the middle of a real emergency. It's really quite ridiculous when you think about it.

The programs really are more of a familiarization with the car and it's controls, with almost no chance to experience loss of control, or the skills necessary to recover.

My daughters are 7 and 9, and already have a good amount of driving experience under their belt (on private property). I am doing everything I can to make sure that when they hit the public roadways they are as prepared as is reasonably possible to manage whatever comes at them without panic.

Why do I do this? Because the #1 cause of death for people 16 to 19 is automobile accidents. Not just by a little either, but by about 3 to 1 over the next killer on the list.

I also take the opportunity as often as it comes up to point out kids who made the mistake of getting in the car with friends that display poor judgement and ended up killing themselves and/or friends. Those roadside crosses are very sobering learning tools.


Fascinating.. so you are saying that the education system isnt doing your job properly - so you are stepping up to do it?
Well you are quite right to Teach them- as ill teach mine.
And you are right that its a risk- because of lack of experience....Statistically
Well. Welcome to Earth- i have no experience of Falling into rapids. If ever i do- i hope i can save myself.....
Teenagers as a group ARE a threat on the road- Higher Road Rage- less attentive- feeling of invincibilty. Saying such isnt wrong. if a teenager gets mad and says "But that doesnt apply to me!!" ill ask "Are you SURE!?"
i Remember being one you know.. it wasnt back when dinosaurs roamed.
I was lead footed, hot-headed and indestructable.

[Doodler]

Teenager are, as a group, very dangerous on the road. It mostly has to do with lack of experience. The programs for learning are weak. For most kids, their first training on how to handle an emergency is in the middle of a real emergency. It's really quite ridiculous when you think about it.

So tell me, dad, how many times have you gone out and wrapped your car around a tree, you know, just to practice?

[farmerjumperdon]

So tell me, dad, how many times have you gone out and wrapped your car around a tree, you know, just to practice?

My driving record, if you go back far enough, is atrocious. Possesssion of a license before I was legal driving age, 12 speeding tickets and 2 suspensions by the time I was 19, and endless hassles with the local constables. We were on a 1st name basis.

The flip side: One very minor low speed (20 MPH) accident on public roads in 46 years of driving, when I was 18. I checked my blind spot before changing lanes to get around someone turning. Because he had his clutch in (no foot on the brake) I did not realize he was completely stopped and bumped his rear right corner.

I attribute my success to some extremely agressive early training - OFF the public roadways.

I have nailed a few deer, which in my eyes do not count. And I have evaded a few most would have hit (with some very nifty manuevering). I do tell my wife, and anybody else that asks for advice, to just plow thru them. In general, a person should not risk going off the road to miss a deer.

Oh yeah, the original question. I've plowed over lots of small trees, but have only hit 1 big one. I went over the high side in an off-camber turn (which would kinda make it the low side?) while driving a monstrosity of an old beat up truck. It was very fun actually. I had 2 of my nieces in the truck and was hauling down one of our trails, laughing our behinds off. I felt the momentum take us beyond the point of return, and turned into the slide and took us down the slope. I do not think it would have flipped, but why risk it. We were headed right for the creek so I eased us into a tree. (The vehicle had very little for brakes). We were laughing so hard we all were on the verge of wetting our pants. We had to hike back to the house and get the tractor to pull the truck up the hill.

Good times.

[Dragon Star]

One time on the way to Mississippi once I watched a guy, probably late 30's, eat a BK Burger off his chest while he drove down the road with his feet on the steering wheel, seat reclined...there was no possible way that he could see over the dash...probably the only thing he could see was the tractor-trailer ahead of him.

More teens should be taught to get the **** off their cell phones no matter what 'the other adults' are doing, and to ****ing pull over to the side of the road if they drop something and just have to learn over to pick it up. A guy I knew since kindergarten died because he leaned over with his head way down to pick something up.

:neutral: Dude, get a grip. Cell Phones and picking stuff up has nothing to do with age, this are things all ages should know not to do, and those are things all ages choose to ignore.

[Doodler]

My driving record, if you go back far enough, is atrocious. Possesssion of a license before I was legal driving age, 12 speeding tickets and 2 suspensions by the time I was 19, and endless hassles with the local constables. We were on a 1st name basis.

The flip side: One very minor low speed (20 MPH) accident on public roads in 46 years of driving, when I was 18. I checked my blind spot before changing lanes to get around someone turning. Because he had his clutch in (no foot on the brake) I did not realize he was completely stopped and bumped his rear right corner.

I attribute my success to some extremely agressive early training - OFF the public roadways.

I have nailed a few deer, which in my eyes do not count. And I have evaded a few most would have hit (with some very nifty manuevering). I do tell my wife, and anybody else that asks for advice, to just plow thru them. In general, a person should not risk going off the road to miss a deer.

Oh yeah, the original question. I've plowed over lots of small trees, but have only hit 1 big one. I went over the high side in an off-camber turn (which would kinda make it the low side?) while driving a monstrosity of an old beat up truck. It was very fun actually. I had 2 of my nieces in the truck and was hauling down one of our trails, laughing our behinds off. I felt the momentum take us beyond the point of return, and turned into the slide and took us down the slope. I do not think it would have flipped, but why risk it. We were headed right for the creek so I eased us into a tree. (The vehicle had very little for brakes). We were laughing so hard we all were on the verge of wetting our pants. We had to hike back to the house and get the tractor to pull the truck up the hill.

Good times.

Three speeding tickets (all were 75 in a 55), two minor bumper bumps (no damage, no claim), and one accident (t-boned by an old woman on a side street while turning around).

Several near misses of the white tailed kind, one ducked accident, and one blown out right front tire when I decided hitting a six inch concrete curb beat hitting an oncoming speeder through a roundabout.

Oh yeah, then that one snowstorm where the car decided to override my decision to turn right and plowed the front left tire broadside into a curb, bending the rim. Interestingly, the tire was fine.

[Fazor]

:neutral: Dude, get a grip. Cell Phones and picking stuff up has nothing to do with age, this are things all ages should know not to do, and those are things all ages choose to ignore.

Hmm... are you parchance a teen driver? Lol j/k. I sorta agree with you. The biggest problem that sets teen drivers apart from other drivers is the experience thing. The more you drive, the more you pick up on cues and situations that need special attention. Also, the consequences of unsafe driving aren't as real for most teens. They don't understand that driving 80-90 miles-an-hour on a straight flat road isn't safe even when you're the only car out there. Sure, 99% of the time you may be fine. But what happens when you crest that hill and there's that bicyclist, deer, etc? Or the one time you hit that pothole just right and end up saying hello to the oak tree?

Problem is, there's not a great solution. Sure you can make the driving age older. But that doesn't give new 20/21 year old drivers that experience. You can lengthen the "temporary permit" phase, which Ohio did recently (the year after I got license, thankfully ;) ). But most people don't take that time serious anyway. Sure a good percentage of parents might take the effort to take thier kids out on the road. Truth is, many simply don't. And even tho ones that do, how good of drivers are they anyway? At least in the US, you "learn the laws of the road" once, get your license, then you are pretty much free to drive as long as you pay your dues and don't get suspended.

Every so often people ask me about "defensive driver" training for thier newly licensed child (or even for themself). Most are just interested in the insurance discount, which pretty much doesn't exist anymore. But as of the last time I looked, there are only 3 classes in the entire state of ohio that are certified defensive driving classes, and all of them were for seniors (elderly).

Ever since I went through the driving portion of police academy, I feel like i'm in so much more control of my vehicle. I've actually had to use controlled skids 2 or 3 times since then to avoid *mumbles* drivers who have pulled out infront of me or ran stopsigns/lights. And I (knock on wood) still have yet to have an accident. I'm not bragging, a lot of it is luck. But I think if everyone had access to that kind of class, it could really help.

Well, that's my 2 cents...and then some. (believe it or not, i trimmed this down to cut down on length. heh).

[Dragon Star]

Hmm... are you parchance a teen driver? Lol j/k.

Indeed I am. I'm 18, and I've been driving since I could reach the pedals and see over the dash at the same time.

There are two different kinds of experience IMO. There is time experience...which is IMO the biggest crock of crap out there as it is often the first things older drivers scapegoat too; and there is opportunity experience, which is much more realistic and important. Experience is what you make it, I can drive for 10 years like and idiot and still be unsafe to everyone including myself and not be any better of a driver then I was when I stated. Or, I could pay attention and learn from the smallest mistakes and correct myself every time, and make the experience.

Time doesn't make you a better driver, using opportunity to make experience is what makes a better driver...have you 30 years of experience already or not.

However, the bottom like is that **** happens. Regardless of who it is or what they're doing, the danger remains. Teens make poor choices, sure...but it's hardly ever their fault I would say as it could have been prevented had there been more education available and easier means as to take it. Bumping the age won't help anything.

[farmerjumperdon]

Good stuff, good advice; on the experience part. I've got so many good driving stories I've probably forgotten many of them. Bottom line is that new drivers (any age) would benefit greatly from a time on a skid pad (or big empty parking lot) with obstacles of little consequence. Push the envelope, loose control, get it back, over & over. Drill emergency procedures until they are pretty much muscle memory.

Observation is another critical component. I see so many people paying so little attention to their driving (all ages) that it sometimes just drives me nuts. It occurs to me the number one cause of accidents is the old "I didn't see them." Well of course not - because they were not looking; I mean REALLY looking.

There's a standard piece of skydiving advice that applies - Head On A Swivel. Especially in traffic or when executing any manuever. You should be seeing everything possible. In front, in back, sides, things you are approaching, anything that could approach you - you need to see as much as possible. See and be REALLY aware of everything around you and there is very little chance for surprise.

[Vermonter]

I've been driving since I was 16 (now 23). Hate to tell you, Dragon Star, but experience behind the wheel is something you gain, and something worthwhile. I've avoided many near-accidents by paying attention to what's going on around me, I've learned to pick up on sometimes subtle clues about my own car, and drivers around me. I've also learned how cars tend to behave under many conditions, such as heavy rain, snow, and ice. Time experience is helpful to a point. I have some bad habits (I tend to eat in the car), but my record is pretty clean. One speeding ticket, one extremely minor rear-ending (no damage), and many near misses with the white-tailed kind. Though, it kinda counts as an accident because in my swerve to avoid the teleporting deer, I went off into the ditch and needed a tow.

As others have said, time alone doesn't necessarily make you a good driver. I know some folks my age and older who are horrible drivers.

[farmerjumperdon]

. . . and many near misses with the white-tailed kind. Though, it kinda counts as an accident because in my swerve to avoid the teleporting deer, I went off into the ditch and needed a tow.

That's a close one, and an important thing that can not be stressed enough. Heard it many times from officers and a couple truckers (my little brother drives OTR). Just hit the deer. Much softer and far less damamging than most of the alternatives (big trees, telephone posts, oncoming traffic, etc.).

Ironically, I came to the aid of a person who swerved to hit a deer on the county road right next to our house. I heard 3 impacts, 2 of them pretty loud. As I'm racing to the scene I'm thinking "3 impact?" What the heck?

The guy swerved to miss the deer, hit it anyway (impact #1), skidded of the road, nailed a good size culvert head-on (impact #2 causing major undercarriage damage and almost flipping the vehicle), then slid broadside into a telephone pole (impact #3). His wife was in the front passenger seat right where he hit the pole. He is so lucky most of his speed was bled off before he hit that pole.

The irony part: He was an off-duty sherrif's deputy. First thing he said to me as I came running up with cell phone in hand and the 911 operator waiting for my injury report was "I can't believe I did that."

Oldsters make mistakes too.

[weatherc]

That's a close one, and an important thing that can not be stressed enough. Heard it many times from officers and a couple truckers (my little brother drives OTR). Just hit the deer. Much softer and far less damamging than most of the alternatives (big trees, telephone posts, oncoming traffic, etc.).

Bolding mine.

Just remember that the same advice doesn't apply to moose. You really don't want to hit one of those with your car.

[Larry Jacks]

Teenager are, as a group, very dangerous on the road. It mostly has to do with lack of experience. The programs for learning are weak. For most kids, their first training on how to handle an emergency is in the middle of a real emergency. It's really quite ridiculous when you think about it.

So tell me, dad, how many times have you gone out and wrapped your car around a tree, you know, just to practice?

Ever heard of a skid pad? It's a great way to teach someone how to recover when they lose control. Before I could make my first solo flight, my instructor made me practice emergencies and dead stick landings. After all, something bad could happen even on that first solo flight. Practicing for emergencies not only teaches the skills necessary to overcome the problem, it teaches how to think when things are going very badly. Those skills have saved me several times when driving.

In almost 34 years of driving (1 ticket 19 years ago, no accidents involving another vehicle), I've come close to being killed four times. In each of those instances, had I not kept my head and maneuvered properly, I would've almost certainly been killed (such as a near miss head on at 75 MPH on the interstate when some drunk was going the wrong way). I was 17 at the time.

Safe driving requires awareness. Any distraction can very quickly lead to an accident. Combine that with lack of experience, a sense of invulnerability, overly aggressive driving, and a lack of maturity and it isn't hard to understand why teenaged drivers have higher accident rates than older, more experienced ones. One fortunate thing about almost getting killed at 17 (and realizing how luck I was under the circumstances) is that I lost my sense of invulnerability very early.

[Moose]

Just remember that the same advice doesn't apply to moose. You really don't want to hit one of those with your car.

Quoted for truth. Never _ever_ choose to hit a moose. There are only two worse alternatives I can think of offhand: a head-on with a big-rig or getting in the way of a train.

[Vermonter]

That's a close one, and an important thing that can not be stressed enough. Heard it many times from officers and a couple truckers (my little brother drives OTR). Just hit the deer. Much softer and far less damamging than most of the alternatives (big trees, telephone posts, oncoming traffic, etc.).

Luckily for me, the car didn't suffer any damage, as the ditch was fairly shallow. I just couldn't coax my Sundance to back out of it. I've been able to avoid deer with greater agility now (and stop in a hurry with ABS). I'll have to be extra cautious this summer when I get my crotch rocket and visit home.

[farmerjumperdon]

Before I could make my first solo flight, my instructor made me practice emergencies and dead stick landings. After all, something bad could happen even on that first solo flight. Practicing for emergencies not only teaches the skills necessary to overcome the problem, it teaches how to think when things are going very badly.

That is the exact purpose of some of the stuff in skydiving training. Students think they are learning to backflip and frontflip to add to their aerobatic skills. The purpose is actually to tumble them out of control, (because almost nobody gets it right at first), see how quickly they regain stability, and make sure they are maintaining altitude awareness. The idea is to put them in a panic situation without the danger of being alone or being low; so when they are alone, they know what to do.

Good analogies, and probably ones a lot of people might think are a bit over the top. But like flying and skydiving; there are situations that occur when driving that are every bit as urgent. You are so much better off if you can Observe, Decide & Do (I preach this as the ODD approach to life) very quickly when that is called for.

[Dragon Star]

I've been driving since I was 16 (now 23). Hate to tell you, Dragon Star, but experience behind the wheel is something you gain, and something worthwhile. I've avoided many near-accidents by paying attention to what's going on around me, I've learned to pick up on sometimes subtle clues about my own car, and drivers around me. I've also learned how cars tend to behave under many conditions, such as heavy rain, snow, and ice. Time experience is helpful to a point. I have some bad habits (I tend to eat in the car), but my record is pretty clean. One speeding ticket, one extremely minor rear-ending (no damage), and many near misses with the white-tailed kind. Though, it kinda counts as an accident because in my swerve to avoid the teleporting deer, I went off into the ditch and needed a tow.

As others have said, time alone doesn't necessarily make you a good driver. I know some folks my age and older who are horrible drivers.

Absolutely, and I would never protest the point...and you actually strengthen my own. The only thing I'm saying is the lack of time experience doesn't make a bad or unskilled driver. I just happen to believe there is more then one kind of experience to be gained.

[Fazor]

Absolutely, and I would never protest the point...and you actually strengthen my own. The only thing I'm saying is the lack of time experience doesn't make a bad or unskilled driver. I just happen to believe there is more then one kind of experience to be gained.

From dictionary.com:
ex·pe·ri·ence /ɪkˈspɪəriəns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ik-speer-ee-uhns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -enced, -enc·ing.
–noun 1. a particular instance of personally encountering or undergoing something: My encounter with the bear in the woods was a frightening experience.
2. the process or fact of personally observing, encountering, or undergoing something: business experience.
3. the observing, encountering, or undergoing of things generally as they occur in the course of time: to learn from experience; the range of human experience.
4. knowledge or practical wisdom gained from what one has observed, encountered, or undergone: a man of experience.
5. Philosophy. the totality of the cognitions given by perception; all that is perceived, understood, and remembered.
–verb (used with object) 6. to have experience of; meet with; undergo; feel: to experience nausea.
7. to learn by experience.


All experience is so-called "time experience". But I think what you are disagreeing with is actually just a mis-understanding. No one has said you need X number of years before you have enough driving experience. What we are saying is that most, if not all, teen drivers have not been on the road long enough to have a good deal of experience. In your first post, you said "I've been driving since I could reach the pedals and see over the dash". Well, that's experience. Or, as you say "time experience".

To illustrate this: the average kid in the US is a passenger for 16 years. They "experience" all the things a driver does: where to go, what to do at a stop sign, etc. Do you think that a teen turning 16 can just hop behind the wheel and be a perfect, or even just an adequate driver based on those 16 years of car-travel experience?

The one accident I have been in, I was a passenger and my girlfriend was driving. An elderly woman pulled out to turn left across our lane. We were only about 20 yards from the intersection when she entered our lane, and we were traveling at 45mph (we did not have a stop sign). The result was a T-bone collision with the elderly womans car. Fortunately there was no (major) injury, but our car was completely totaled. As a pasenger, I saw the accident coming; through similar previous incidents and also through my police-driver training, I know to watch the wheels and eyes of cars at such intersections. Lets you know a) if the driver sees you, or at least where they intend to go (eyes) and b) if they're about to go (wheels start to move...so does the car obviously but the wheels are most noticable the second thier foot moves off the brake). I can't say for sure I would have been able to avoid the accidnt, given the small distance and reaction time. But at least i saw it. My g/f had no idea until there was suddently a car in her lane.

No one is a perfect driver, and no ammount of experience can make one. Im only 24, so I'm far from saying I've had a ton of experience, even tho it's been nearly 10 years.

Anyway, we're not saying that you "have to be 20, 25, 30, whatever" to be a good driver. What we (or at least most of us, methinks) ARE saying is 1-2 years experience isn't enough (altho granted you do have to start somewhere) and that there's no focus on becoming a "safe" driver for most teens. Once they get their license, they think it's done and they know everything there is to know about the road. *shrugs*

[Moose]

It's not that there's more than one kind of experience. Experience is experience.

What you're talking about, Dragon Star, is skill. Skill is a combination of experience, talent, and education.

There are drivers who will be dangerous no matter how much experience and education they get. There are teen self-taught drivers who are extremely talented. Some are well educated and smart enough to stick with their training.

Experience has a measurable statistical correlation with accident avoidance. So does education. Going through a good driver's ed program vs being taught by one's dad out in the mall parking lot, for example. (Insurance companies follow these statistics fairly closely.) I would expect natural talent to be a big factor as well, but that's a bit harder to quantify and/or separate from the other two variables. I've no significant doubt that maturity and latent intelligence plays a role as well.

But it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest that experience plays the largest role by a fairly wide margin. Again, judging by their rates pattern before they started gouging everybody within reach, insurance companies seemed to believe this is true as well.

The fact of it is, teen drivers necessarily have a very small amount of experience. This says nothing about their education or natural talent. It says nothing about their natural smarts or maturity. It only speaks to their experience.

*shrugs* And the only way to gain more experience is to drive.

[Larry Jacks]

Good analogies, and probably ones a lot of people might think are a bit over the top. But like flying and skydiving; there are situations that occur when driving that are every bit as urgent. You are so much better off if you can Observe, Decide & Do (I preach this as the ODD approach to life) very quickly when that is called for.

Fighter pilots sometimes talk about the "OODA Loop". This is a process where they continuously "Observe, Orient, Decide, and Act" during aerial combat. It also applies to driving. Observe the situation (other cars, road conditions, etc.), orient yourself to the situation, decide what you're going to do, then act accordingly. Lather, rinse, and repeat.

All too often, I've seen the results of people whose brains apparently locked up, leading to an accident. Rather than taking evasive actions, they simply lock on the brakes and drive straight into the accident. In all four of the situations that I mentioned above where I narrowly avoided an almost certainly fatal accident, simply hitting the brakes would've probably gotten me killed. In one case in particular, I had to floor it to accelerate out of the path of an idiot who ran a red light. Had I not accelerated, he would've hit me right in my door at high speed.

[Vermonter]

Fighter pilots sometimes talk about the "OODA Loop". This is a process where they continuously "Observe, Orient, Decide, and Act" during aerial combat. It also applies to driving. Observe the situation (other cars, road conditions, etc.), orient yourself to the situation, decide what you're going to do, then act accordingly. Lather, rinse, and repeat.

That is especially true when riding a motorcycle. It's far easier to get killed on a bike than in a car, mainly because you don't have a metal frame to help absorb the blow. You need to take into consideration many things at once, and be aware of everything around you, because anything can pop up in front of you, whether it be the white-tailed kind, a car running a red light, a distracted driver, or even an impatient pedestrian (or even worse, kids at play and bored dogs).

Sometimes you need to swerve, stop or speed up to get out of harm's way. Evasive action is great, but what if that's not an option? It's a challenge.

[Fazor]

I guess the other part to the story is also not necessarily the number of accidents caused by teens (altho that is measurably higher), but they types and sevarity of the accidents aswell. When it comes to your minor fender-bender's, my experience selling insurance has been that the numbers are fairly close in age (altho there does seem to be more female than male, but that's purely anecdotal from my perspective I don't have exact numbers). But the majority of serious injury and death accidents I've seen come through here have been young, typically male, drivers. I can tell you that being a 24 year old male with a spotless driving record and no claims, I pay about the same as a 45-60 year old male/female pays for 2 vehicles. (of course, seeing the kinda things that can happen my coverage is a little more than the average person carries aswell, but still the analogy is pretty close).

Side-story (like i always do): Funniest thing I ever saw was a young girl that called to see how much it would be for her to get "full coverage" on a brand new sports car (mustang i believe). She was 18, and had close to 20 violations/suspensions on her record in the 2 years she had been driving. I don't know how she still even had a valid licese. Anyway, for that one car, it was close to $600 a month for insurance. She decided to not buy it and stick with her 10 year old junker. One good choice among many, many bad ones.

[Doodler]

That is especially true when riding a motorcycle. It's far easier to get killed on a bike than in a car, mainly because you don't have a metal frame to help absorb the blow. You need to take into consideration many things at once, and be aware of everything around you, because anything can pop up in front of you, whether it be the white-tailed kind, a car running a red light, a distracted driver, or even an impatient pedestrian (or even worse, kids at play and bored dogs).

Sometimes you need to swerve, stop or speed up to get out of harm's way. Evasive action is great, but what if that's not an option? It's a challenge.

More likely a fatality. I've seen the aftermath of a Harley meeting Bambi at high speed. The bike lost, badly.

[Dragon Star]

More likely a fatality. I've seen the aftermath of a Harley meeting Bambi at high speed. The bike lost, badly.

I know somebody who hit a Goat on an electric scooter...however, it was likely a lot less violent. :razz:

[A.DIM]

Somewhat OT (since my wife isn't a teen):

She & I were laughing over the "astrology signs - bad drivers" discussions the other night.
She's a Libra, which according to those "studies" is THE worst driver.

Well, the next morning on her way to work some teen smashed into her!

Now, was it the teen, or was it her "sign?"

:lol: