thoughts of depth. im tired of all the hate.

[Chunky]

no point to this. only my thoughts on the world.

we are the problem. we are the reason for all this heartache and pain which exists. we as a whole and individuals. we go through life using hurtful words and alter-egos towards people whom we see weak enough to carry our burden. the weak fall first, but not before passing on the hate that we so "lovingly" gave.

this hate transmutes into physical actions with the effect felt by all.

does a man kill for pleasure?

or was he provoked by action. perhaps it was corruption caused by a spiteful person.
maybe it was from a life full of pain.
pain a mother could have prevented if not for an abusive stepfather, for the father saw the mother as weak.
evil begets evil. we all know it. yet we change nothing. instead we go through life wading through blood which we helped spill asking "why" with our eyes closed to the truth. but we don't want the truth. we want to hear that its your fault. we want you to pay for our sins so we may be free to spread more.
we want you to fall so we will rise higher.
in your absence we will create fear for you to come back too. your pain and fear from the fear we left you will multiply and devour you all.
so you go home locking the door and behind it the hate. waiting passively until it goes away. but it never will. not until you see that we are all apart of it. we as individuals created the "whole" and this is where the evilness resides.hiding in shadow and wicked tongues of others. we must, as individuals, do our part. if you don't take a stand ,why would another? if you don't help, why would they? you must help them in their faith for you. they have to know you will try to do what is right.show then you've taken a step forward and that they should follow.

the evilness that i spoke of will always be known, manifesting itself as long as we as a whole allow it.
the day we come together seeing every man as equal and trusting in their works, is the day all the hate will wash away.

why don't we start now?



a foot note
---------------

I've always wondered how long it would take me to find another that is doing what I'm attempting.

I'm still looking.


look with me?

[DyerWolf]

Um. Cheer up. Go outside and play. or pray. or talk to someone.







BTW - many of us have been where it sounds like you are...



It gets better.

[Doodler]

Doodler translation: "Can't we all just get along?"

Doodler answer: "No."

[Chunky]

Doodler translation: "Can't we all just get along?"

Doodler answer: "No."

you say no. but you know you want to.:silenced:

[Argos]

Well, that´s life. Take it as it is and try to make the most of it.

[Chunky]

Well, that´s life. Take it as it is and try to make the most of it.

"thats life"

but it doesnt have to be.


but by your statement i assume you just go with the flow. waiting for the prob. to fix its self.




thats never going to happen man.

[Doodler]

but by your statement i assume you just go with the flow. waiting for the prob. to fix its self.

Is the problem with the world or with you? From what I read, you're having difficulties with the world as it is. Six billion people will not turn their lives on a dime to accomodate your inability to cope with conflict. Get used to it or be miserable. The world doesn't care.

[Fazor]

I think it's more of a statement "Do what you can, but don't let the things you can't change bring you down". I know many people that simply can't grasp that concept, and they want to change/fix everything they see. The reality is, you can make a difference, but limit yourself to what is in your abilities.

I have a wonderful ex (how often do you hear that?) that always wants to do anything to make everyone she knows happy. She's very good at accomplishing this, but it's almost always at the cost of herself. Again, she's an amazing and wonderful person, but she lets everyone else drag her down. My advice, don't fall into that same pit. It's hard to get out of.

[Chunky]

Is the problem with the world or with you? From what I read, you're having difficulties with the world as it is. Six billion people will not turn their lives on a dime to accomodate your inability to cope with conflict. Get used to it or be miserable. The world doesn't care.

and your one of the pecimest (sp?) that doom us :)



i do cope with the world.


but its a shame you think that way



yeah yeah the spelling. everyone already knows.

[Michael Noonan]

If the world is a bio feedback thought processor then we get back what we personally give out. So the most significant change for the better in out lives is to think positive generous thoughts of others.

To para phrase a line "What you do or think to others actually comes back to you."

Given the current state of the world it may be daunting but if enough like minded caring people exercised nice thoughts it might work. The key is taking that first positive thought.

Cheers Mike

[Doodler]

Empathy has a dark side.

It was partly empathy that drove the conquest of the New World, at least from a religious standpoint. Saving the natives from their savagery for their own good. You see it still in missionary work. Oh sure, nice and charitable, complete with an overdose of indoctrination.

Ulterior motive colors every charitable undertaking. Someone's got their hands in the cookie jar for self enrichment. Someone like you gets a smug sense that you're better than the people who don't help because you "care" more about people around you. Its about exposure, face time, and some sense of self promotion. "I was there", "I did something". Don't tell me that's selflessness by any stretch of the definition. Moral high horses breed faster than rabbits on Spanish fly.

You look at my cynicism as if it makes me subhuman, but there's a very real sense of enlightened self interest to it. I know the world is out to get what's mine, and I'm not letting them have it...ever. If that means someone suffers, they suffer. If they die, at least they're neither suffering any longer nor inspiring someone to panhandle me for a freebie.

I've got one person to worry about, me. I'm honest about it. I have no other specific interests other than my own. In the process of pursuing my interests, I have a positive impact on the people around me, those I work for, and those I work with. I carry my weight and I take what I'm paid without expecting to get more than I earn. I also have a negative impact on the world. I get a job, I land a client, my competition suffers the loss. Construction is a feast or famine industry. Right now, its feasting time because of how much work there is to be done. The challenge is being ready to cut throats when the famine times roll around, and I'm ready to kill, proverbially speaking. I will demonstrate to my clients I do the job better than my competition when the jobs are hard to come by, I will demonstrate to my employer that I'm better than others in the company if positions have to be cut.

The world is a zero sum place. Everything you gain comes at someone's expense. We are not all going to "win" at life. Feeling sorry for the losers doesn't help your position at all.

[Chunky]

Someone like you gets a smug sense that you're better than the people who don't help because you "care" more about people around you. Its about exposure, face time, and some sense of self promotion. "I was there", "I did something". Don't tell me that's selflessness by any stretch of the definition. Moral high horses breed faster than rabbits on Spanish fly.




this isnt about face time or that i "care" for people blah blah blah.

this OP was what ive always thought. ive always wondered why cant people treat others like they want to be treated. i could never understand why they wouldnt do this simple act. this OP is to convay this thought.

not my smugness
nor my willingness to help and " oh me me i did it"

none of that.


the part that i quoted was speculation. nothing more.

but i already know you will roll your eyes and think im trying to get the cat outta the burning tree just so the old lady will thank me.


the thing is, i save the cat only to save it.


metaphorically speaking.



but in the end ,yes, think what you want.

[Palomar]

This thread actually helped me better see a dilemma I've been stewing about off and on the past couple of days.

[Argos]

I have trespassed the big four-oh, so I´ve seen a lot of things. I´ve had my share of romance and high hopes. I´ve developed my simple six-step formula for a better life, which I pass on to you now:

. Love yourself [note I didn´t say adore yourself]
.Know how to say No
.Never care what the people think about you.
.Never hold a grudge
.Be nice and do your best
.Lastly, and more importantly, don´t ever try to fix the world.

Hope this helps.

[DyerWolf]

Try not to look for poop to step in.

[korjik]

Without hate there is no love. You can obsess about the bad if you want, but I prefer to see the good. We live in a world today where many diseases have been eraticated, where famine is nearly non-existant, where yesterdays killers are survivable for decades.

We have seen men on the moon. We can travel around the world in a couple days instead of the years it once took. We can look from atoms to the edge of the universe.

heck, we can have people from all over the world all discuss this world on an open forum.

There is pain and hatred and death in the world. There always has been and there always will be. There is also laughter and live and life too. Always has been, always will be.

[Pinemarten]

I read a story in the paper last year about a guy that showed up in Toronto, depressed, with a gun or two, and a bunch of bullets.

He came across a person with a dog, or just the dog? Or just the person? I can't remember all the details, but something 'nice' happened at that 'meeting'. He ended up turning himself in with no damage done.

Anyone else hear about this?

Bad things can be turned around by simple good things.

[Pinemarten]

Found it. Lots of guns, and just the dog.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1088080916471_69/?hub=CTVNewsAt11

[Jobe]

feel the love

[Jens]

The world is a zero sum place. Everything you gain comes at someone's expense. We are not all going to "win" at life. Feeling sorry for the losers doesn't help your position at all.

If the world were a zero sum place, I doubt that humans would have developed as social animals.

There are certain things, sure, that are zero sum. A baseball game or the lottery. But not everything is. It's likely that legal systems or systems of arbitration develop in all human societies because they end up benefitting everyone, on average. Lots of human societies have rules like "thou shalt not kill," and it's because that moral imperative ends up benefitting us all, on average. So having such a moral imperative is not a zero sum game, IMO.

Now, I suppose you could criticize me by saying that I'm being fundamentally anthropocentric here. After all, if humans are more successful by being cooperative, then I suppose the tigers will suffer for it. So I suppose in a sense, it can be seen as zero sum, but not from the perspective of the welfare of human beings.

Plus I doubt that you're really as cold as you make yourself out to be in that post. I suspect that you participate on this board partially because of the human weakness of appreciating comradery.

[Rorechof]

Jonathan posts: we are the problem.

If you mean ‘we’, as in Humanity, yep, I think so too. I also think ‘we’ are the answer to that problem.
Doing what I can to add to the solution is about all I am capable of doing and sometimes it doesn’t seem like much. But, I do think if we all add a little to the solution, the cumulative effect will be noticed; maybe even ‘awesome‘.

It will probably take a long time before this effect ‘sweeps’ the World, and I don’t expect to undo what has been programmed into the Human Organism by ’Nature’ I.e. The Basic Instinct to Survival-At Any Cost, in my lifetime.

People in general are just starting to wake up to the fact that our basic instinctual drive to survive is no different from any other organism on Earth and Humans need to learn to control this drive, on all levels, or we’re going to find ourselves in an even bigger mess than we find ourselves in now. Spread the word, come up with innovative ideas to help clean up our mess and other such ‘stuff’. What else are we to do? ~rore

[Whirlpool]

Life is not always a Bed of Roses , but even Roses has Thorns that pricks and gives pain and Life is just the way it is.

You look at this world on the negative side. Why don't look on the postive side?
Yes , "Evil begets Evil", but there is "Good that Overcomes Evil".

We have experiences in our lives, painful as it is, but what makes that bad and painful experience did to our lives? to your life or mine?

There are 2 types: Positive & Negative
If you take that Bad experience Negatively, you will feel down and curse the world and hate it to let it happen to you and will not let you move on.

But if you took that Positively, you will see things differently. It will open your eyes to new perspective in life and will take it as part of lifes lessons that the next time it will happen to you again , you knew better.

All the things that are happening in our lives here in these world started from us individuals.

does a man kill for pleasure?
or was he provoked by action. perhaps it was corruption caused by a spiteful person.
maybe it was from a life full of pain.
pain a mother could have prevented if not for an abusive stepfather, for the father saw the mother as weak.
evil begets evil. we all know it. yet we change nothing. instead we go through life wading through blood which we helped spill asking "why" with our eyes closed to the truth. but we don't want the truth. we want to hear that its your fault. we want you to pay for our sins so we may be free to spread more.
we want you to fall so we will rise higher.
in your absence we will create fear for you to come back too. your pain and fear from the fear we left you will multiply and devour you all.

All have rootcauses. You look at life as if there is no solution because after seeing what bad happens around you, you see there is no change, people do nothing to change it. Maybe you can start and be the one to make a step and make a difference. Not it entering in their lives , but with your own. And maybe when they see that you are making a difference and it does "Good" to you, your family, friends,neighborhood will Notice and they will do the same.

I have Bad experiences in my life too, I guess everyone does. I have a broken marriage, my ex-husband left right after I gave birth to my son , I have no work and I'm 100% dependent to my husbands earnings. I was devastated and desperate that I nearly wanted to end my life. I wanted to get revenge , to get even with him. BUT , I didn't give in to such "Hatred" I felt that time. Instead I looked on the other side of life , and what it can still offer me despite of what happened.

Think of it , If I gave in to my "Hatred" , I 'd probably dead by now and Not being able to see my son growing up, OR I'd probably be in jail because of my "Hatred" I killed my Husband or did "BAD" things to him to get even. That will make my life Worse and will make me Hate more this Life and this world I'm living in. And I will be added to statistics that you are talking about.

BUT, I chose the other way, and here I am now, still alive and seeing my son growing up, enjoying his cuddles and laughters and being able to be His Mother and providing for him with my Cares and Love until he is able to get up on his own feet and live his own life.

Bottomline is, it should start with US, with you,me, every individual.
We cannot the control the Lives of others , but we can Control our own lives.

[astromark]

This is what drives many into religious belief, and in this case it is not a bad thing. World piece is a highly sought after commodity. The hatred that is spoken of here is apparent globally. Unfortunately religious fanaticism is also a hot bed of hatred and prejudice. How do we fix this. Thats the easy bit,. You can not. To try to put the whole world right would obviously be a sought after talent, but no you and I have but a life time to spread our thoughts and deeds to make this a better place. . . and that is the answer I feel you seek. Go through life with your head up. Be proud of what you are and share your happiness with all. It is infectious. Carry that smile. The hand of understanding and tolerance will serve you well.
I on arriving at my place of work portray a very happy demeanor. It's an act. For I to am not as happy with the world as I would like all to see. After a very short time I have observed that people talk with me, confide in my understanding. Share there thoughts with me. I have demonstrated the ability to listen without judgment or prejudice. I actively seek the humor in all things. I pretend to be happy. It works. After just a little practice I have developed this skill to the point where even I am convinced. All Is well with the world, and it is.
Life is about making adjustments for the changing circumstances around us. You can not expect to be faultless, but I am working on that. :)

[EvilEye]

no point to this. only my thoughts on the world.

we are the problem. we are the reason for all this heartache and pain which exists. we as a whole and individuals. we go through life using hurtful words and alter-egos towards people whom we see weak enough to carry our burden. the weak fall first, but not before passing on the hate that we so "lovingly" gave.

this hate transmutes into physical actions with the effect felt by all.

does a man kill for pleasure?

or was he provoked by action. perhaps it was corruption caused by a spiteful person.
maybe it was from a life full of pain.
pain a mother could have prevented if not for an abusive stepfather, for the father saw the mother as weak.
evil begets evil. we all know it. yet we change nothing. instead we go through life wading through blood which we helped spill asking "why" with our eyes closed to the truth. but we don't want the truth. we want to hear that its your fault. we want you to pay for our sins so we may be free to spread more.
we want you to fall so we will rise higher.
in your absence we will create fear for you to come back too. your pain and fear from the fear we left you will multiply and devour you all.
so you go home locking the door and behind it the hate. waiting passively until it goes away. but it never will. not until you see that we are all apart of it. we as individuals created the "whole" and this is where the evilness resides.hiding in shadow and wicked tongues of others. we must, as individuals, do our part. if you don't take a stand ,why would another? if you don't help, why would they? you must help them in their faith for you. they have to know you will try to do what is right.show then you've taken a step forward and that they should follow.

the evilness that i spoke of will always be known, manifesting itself as long as we as a whole allow it.
the day we come together seeing every man as equal and trusting in their works, is the day all the hate will wash away.

why don't we start now?



a foot note
---------------

I've always wondered how long it would take me to find another that is doing what I'm attempting.

I'm still looking.


look with me?


The above is exactly the type of writing you find AFTERWARD, and then people ask why didn't we see the signs? AND Why didn't we do anything if we did?

[LurchGS]

Doodler is right (I think others are, too, but the bifocals are getting tired)

The most important person on this planet is me. This should be true of all of us.

Where we gt into trouble is settling for short term high instead of long-term happiness. (I can be as guilty of this as anybody - I'll happily pass up an apple for a Milky Way)

In order to achieve our own happiness, we surround ourselves with that which makes us happy. Our friends. Our pets. Our possessions. But you have to know the limits on the system - sure, the jerk across the street would be better off dead, but if you solve that problem you'll have to (more than likely) spend significant time in a rather confined space. Is the reward worth the chore?

I didn't like the jobs I was getting, so I created my own. After 12 years, I *STILL* enjoy it. Being in business, of course, part of my efforts are geared toward putting my competition out of business. Nothing underhanded - I just offer a better product. I don't even have to compete on price. In 4 years, the folders of customers who have left us don't fill up half a file-cabinet drawer - and a good 15% of those have come back.

Am I making 6 figures? Nope. But my company is financially sound, it'll be around for a while.

Somebody up the thread mentioned treating others as *they* want to be treated. I want to come home in the evening to a wife in a cliche (neglige, martini, etc) who treats me to a foot massage. She'd rather *I* cook dinner, though at present she's unmployed, so is home in the afternoon. That's the road to ruin - just look at Hollywood for a whole slew of wonderful examples. If you are constantly given what you want, you tend to want *more*. an more.

Accept a little discomfort in exchange for longer-term contentment. Treat others as best you can, and let it go at that.

As for Doodle's response to "Can't we all get along" - again, he's right. Any answer other than 'no' is wishful thinking. We are not designed that way. You *will* do something that irritates me. But unless I view it as dangerous to my wellbeing (not just unpleasant), I'll do my best to ignore it. Or ask you to stop. Worse comes to worst, I can arrange to separate the two of us.

If I help somebody, it's because I want to. I get something out of it - payment of some kind (I refuse, for instance, to give anything to a panhandler, but a street performer will get something)

The world in which we live is cruel, unkind, and definitely not there for your benefit. If you want something, you have to go get it. If you have hope of KEEPING what you want, you need to earn it.

If you want everything handed to you on a platter, move back in with Mom until you grow up.

Obviously, I don't consider Doodler a pessimist (since I tend to agree with him). He strikes me as more of a realist. "Here's the world. I'm making my little corner better for me." Of course, that means making his corner of the world better for his friends and family - who are engaged in doing the same thing.
If you persist in pretending the world is anything other than what it is, you will A) never be happy (and sane) and B) someday get clobbered by the metaphorical bus as the world comes along and takes a bite out of your hide.

[HenrikOlsen]

. . . sure, the jerk across the street would be better off dead, . . .
You need to get your thinking straight.

You would be better off if the jerk across the street were dead. :)

[Michael Noonan]

I have trespassed the big four-oh, so I´ve seen a lot of things. I´ve had my share of romance and high hopes. I´ve developed my simple six-step formula for a better life, which I pass on to you now:

. Love yourself [note I didn´t say adore yourself]
.Know how to say No
.Never care what the people think about you.
.Never hold a grudge
.Be nice and do your best
.Lastly, and more importantly, don´t ever try to fix the world.

Hope this helps.

Fantastic last point, that sort of challenge carries a lot of weight. Instead of fixing the world settle for being just part of the solution.

Altruism is a very personnal and private thing. When bodies of authority are involved the quality of altruism is lessened especially if the help doesn't take into account the feelings of those receiving assistence.

Finally it is not the size of the "gift" it is the volume of joy that you give it with. Then if you are the recipient it is the level of genuine gratitude you can receive it with.

Cheers

[EvilEye]

The more you try to shut yourself off from the rest of that big nasty world, the worse it will seem.

Move out to the country with just your wife.
It's beautiful, and quiet, and calm.

But now, instead of the cacophany of sound you were trying to escape, you have the annoying ring of a telephone, or the buzz of a mosquito.

Simplifying things often makes the things you didn't notice before much larger.

You cannot make yourself happy. You can only choose to BE happy. Happy is an inside job. You can't earn it. You can't force it. You can't buy it. You can only choose to BE it in SPITE of the things that make you unhappy.

When I fall and bust my behind, I choose to laugh even if it hurts. C'mon! It's funny. It would be if I saw it on tv, so it must be now. Sure I'll say "OW!", but then I twist on myself and laugh at the folly. And then I feel better and move on. You can't change the world. You can only change you.

[The Supreme Canuck]

I would argue there is no problem at all. If we tried to "fix" the world (i.e. eliminate greed, etc.) we'd be far worse off. Give The Fable of the Bees a read.

[Sp1ke]

Much as I consider myself an optimist, I do agree with Doodler and Lurch. We have to be realistic.

My personal ethical stance is along the lines of Immanuel Kant's maxim, paraphrased as "do as you would be done by". Wiipedia has it at "Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law."

I find I'm uncomfortable if I do something to someone else that I wouldn't want them to do to me. That's basically selfish as it's only my own discomfort that moderates my actions. But that's the way it is. We can't fix the world. I can set a good example, as I see it, but I can't force everyone else to go along with me.

[djellison]

From time to time I am ashamed of the human species. It can do some idiotic, brutal, foul, disgusting things both at a group and an individual level.

But from time to time - I am also proud of our accomplishments as a species.

Doug

[LurchGS]

People are. . . people. Some good, some bad. Fortunately, by far the majority is what we normally consider "good". The problem is, of course, when we find a *bad* one, they're in the news, and are then raised to much greater level of badness.

As deranged as Cho and others like him are, can you seriously compare him to Caligula, Hitler, or Stalin? Or the Kmer Rouge?

Every species has its aberrations - our problem is that we are far more tolerant of them than we should be for those easily shocked. To be honest, I'd be more worried if we did NOT have people like Cho. That would mean we are increasingly identical, and, no matter what some people seem to think, people are not bees.

[The Supreme Canuck]

[snip] no matter what some people seem to think, people are not bees.

Is that directed at me? If so, I seriously urge you to read the thing - the analogy is sound. Every bee works to better itself, and by doing so betters the hive. Greed leads to public good. The same is true of humanity.