Stop Bear Farming

[mugaliens]

I dunno - I wasn't even aware that bears were being farmed (http://www.stopbearfarming.com), or for what purpose. And to think a Miss World Runner-up (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070428/wl_canada_nm/canada_canada_col) is spearheading this incredibly heart-wrenching event...

Thought it would make a nice addition to the Bautforum controversies, though...

I would like to say this: "The pain is so intense it causes some bears to even chew their own limbs in attempts to be free from the pain."

If that's the case, then I want no part of the Chinese-hosted olympics.

I am by no means a tree-hugger, nor an environmentalist, or anything of the kind.

But even hardened folks like myself have limits.

[The Supreme Canuck]

Here's my rule:

Do anything you want to or with an animal, so long as it isn't unnecessarily cruel.

It applies here, I think.

[Pinemarten]

I dunno - I wasn't even aware that bears were being farmed (http://www.stopbearfarming.com), or for what purpose. And to think a Miss World Runner-up (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070428/wl_canada_nm/canada_canada_col) is spearheading this incredibly heart-wrenching event...

Thought it would make a nice addition to the Bautforum controversies, though...

I would like to say this: "The pain is so intense it causes some bears to even chew their own limbs in attempts to be free from the pain."

If that's the case, then I want no part of the Chinese-hosted olympics.

I am by no means a tree-hugger, nor an environmentalist, or anything of the kind.

But even hardened folks like myself have limits.

I feel pressure should be applied, but not to the Olympics. That should have been done before a nation was allowed to host the event. Many athletes can only participate in one Olympic event in their life and have no choice of venue.
Pressure should be applied to our own Olympic committees and others to prevent such nations from hosting.

If you look around your house you will find many 'Made in China' labels.

Don't buy them, and tell the retailer why.

[LurchGS]

do we have corroborating evidence that this is going on - in anything like serious scale?

[Pinemarten]

I believe it, not only because I went to school with Calvin Ayre, but because it is common with livestock farms.
I used to work on farms where the sows were 'tethered' to the floor with a 12-18" chain and 'girth belt' or neck collar for most of their 3-5 year useful life. The practise was outlawed in Denmark, and probably other countries. It is still allowed in Canada and probably the US.
Pigs are ugly so their isn't much said about it.

[LurchGS]

Hrm - my Aunt and Uncle used to raise swine - never saw the practice then, nor have I seen it recntly. Not that I spend a lot of time on farms these days, mind you.

But, I don't doubt it *happens*, and I'm certainly in favor of the extermination of the practice. I just wonder how prevalent it is. And, Not wishing to irritate anybody, but how many "Farms" has Mr Ayre documented?
As far as I am concerned, he could be Jesus and I'd want independent confirmation.

[Pinemarten]

I just emailed them and queried as to evidence.
Calvin Ayre was on a recent cover of Forbes Magazine. Canadian boy does well, billionare from sweat, owns the largested gaming site, financed Google etc.

Edit: link to bio

http://www.bodog.com/calvin-ayre/

[Pinemarten]

Horses are being mistreated in North America, not as bad as the bears, but bad.

http://www.animalliberation.org.au/peefarm.php

[Pinemarten]

Found a link to USA pigs. Not many tethers, but real small cages.

http://www.animalsvoice.com/PAGES/features/pigs2.html

[Damien Evans]

In a word: disgusting

I have some stronger words for it, but they're not appropriate here

[LurchGS]

I'm sorry - this is inappropriate, off topic, and unfeeling, but it really is the first thing I thought of when I saw the thread title:

Bear farming? what's wrong with bear farming - we need more farmers!

[davidlpf]

My general rule about farming, if your crop can kill you do not farm it.

[LurchGS]

Hrm - never seen a guy murdered by soy beans/corn/wheat? Just cause it don't have fangs doesn't mean it can't kill you. You can die in a grain silo, too.

Or.. cattle. I learned at an early age that playing baseball an occupied pasture is dangerous (never stopped us, but you learned to ALWAYS look out for the bull). You also learned to move the playing field when home .. um.. plate.. got too spread out to mean anything.

I suppose chickens are safe - all they do is stink

Lurch's general rule of farming: Let somebody else do it

[davidlpf]

Hrm - never seen a guy murdered by soy beans/corn/wheat? Just cause it don't have fangs doesn't mean it can't kill you. You can die in a grain silo, too.
thats more a case of unsafe work conditions, as teenager had a summer job of raking blueberries two times ended up in the hospital with severe asthma attacks (pesticides) , one time fall out of back of a pick up truck going to work (actually illegal but their normal transport was down). only Managed about 3 days a year out of a 3 week season, never did it after the thrid time, also the wonder why they have a hard time getting people to do it.

Or.. cattle. I learned at an early age that playing baseball an occupied pasture is dangerous (never stopped us, but you learned to ALWAYS look out for the bull). You also learned to move the playing field when home .. um.. plate.. got too spread out to mean anything.

One of the reasons I will just try to grow vegetables for myself.

[Ronald Brak]

Viagra helped lower the price of rhino horn. Obviously we need someone to invent Bilera.

Personally I hope improved economic conditions and educational levels will result in people giving up the bear bile. This may take some time, but the concept of animal rights is slowly becoming more popular. In the past life has been very cruel for humans in China, so it may take some time before they feel secure enough to their own safety to grow widely concerned about the plight of animals.

[LurchGS]

and working with grumpy bears isn't unsafe work conditions? The difference is one of vector, in my mind. With a little thought, you can make ANYTHING safer..but somebody's probably still gonna get boxed.

[davidlpf]

The difference is one of vector, in my mind.
Agree, but bears a little bit more aggresive then peas. Plus I just think unfair practice on the bears.

[LurchGS]

heh - you've not been in my wife's garden, then. Makes some Dr Who adversaries look positively benign. At least the pods are still small...

and I'm not arguing that farming the bears as they seem to be on that site is definitely a Bad Thing. Unnecessary cruelty is at all times to be avoided.

[mugaliens]

If you look around your house you will find many 'Made in China' labels.

Don't buy them, and tell the retailer why.

Funny you should mention that, as I make it a point not to buy anything from any nation that engages in dispicable practices.

[Ronald Brak]

If you look around your house you will find many 'Made in China' labels.

Don't buy them, and tell the retailer why.

This will probably have the opposite effect from what you want.

Not trading with China makes China poorer and more isolated. The poorer a country is, the less education and they can afford and the less internet connections they will have which make it easier for such things as animal rights groups to organize. The poorer a country is the less they can send their children abroad to absorb foreign ideas. The poorer you are the more painful and difficult your life is. The more painful and difficult your life is, the less likely you are to have time to worry about the condition of bears. Most of the people of China have no particular desire to make animals suffer (and yeah, I know about the live monkey brains). However, currently their priorities are slightly different from those of people in rich developed nations.

[Pinemarten]

This will probably have the opposite effect from what you want.

Not trading with China makes China poorer and more isolated. The poorer a country is, the less education and they can afford and the less internet connections they will have which make it easier for such things as animal rights groups to organize. The poorer a country is the less they can send their children abroad to absorb foreign ideas. The poorer you are the more painful and difficult your life is. The more painful and difficult your life is, the less likely you are to have time to worry about the condition of bears. Most of the people of China have no particular desire to make animals suffer (and yeah, I know about the live monkey brains). However, currently their priorities are slightly different from those of people in rich developed nations.

Agreed.

We should put pressure somewhere. I fear that the governments of other nations have this as a low priority in 'political trade' with China.
There are some 'coming soon' links that look hopeful on that site though.

[Maha Vailo]

Personally, I'd like to see any evidence that this is a serious problem above and beyond what animal-rights activists claim. I've seen AR types time and again, and their messages tend to stretch the truth so much they start to lie outright.

From what I understand, AR activists not only want to ban practices which are out-and-out cruel (such as cock-fighting and possibly the bear-farming mentioned in the OP), but want to eliminate all usage of animals by humans, period. No pets, no meat, no animal actors, nothing of the sort. And where would that leave us? Probably malnourished and lonely.

(Forgive me if this sounded a little too political for you. I just had to get it off my chest.)

- Maha Vailo

[Pinemarten]

I have emailed them in regards to evidence. I didn't think to ask for 'outside' evidence.

[Maha Vailo]

I have emailed them in regards to evidence. I didn't think to ask for 'outside' evidence.

Piney, you did the wrong thing. E-mail them and you'll get nothing but propaganda in return. What you do need to find is someone who actually works in one of these bear farms or has been to one of them. Ask them, not the AR guys.

(And no, I wouldn't know how to go about finding an eyewitness....)

- Maha Vailo

[mugaliens]

Pigs are ugly so their isn't much said about it.

ROTFLMFAO....

Well, only to a point and because of your choice of words and the unique order in which you presented them.

Having said that, I'm a firm believer in beef as a food - but I'm also a very firm believe in human animal treatment, and I think some of the examples presented in this thread fall way below standards.

[Pinemarten]

I remember a conversation in a recent show.

Anti-hunter: What weapon was the deer allowed to use?
Hunter: The same one the cows use.

[LurchGS]

ROTFLMFAO....

Well, only to a point and because of your choice of words and the unique order in which you presented them.

Having said that, I'm a firm believer in beef as a food - but I'm also a very firm believe in human animal treatment, and I think some of the examples presented in this thread fall way below standards.


Well, sure - I don't think I would treat any human animal as described. Well, ok, a few - but most of them are dead already anyway.

Perhaps you meant 'humane'?

And if anybody *ever* tells you herbivores are a 'safe hunt', point them to the Cape Bufalo. No sane person hunts those. Too dangerous.