Michael Noonan
12-June-2007, 07:58 AM
Can one reasonably discuss big political issues without invoking politics.
This may result in a ban for me but I accept that as I believe an intellectual forum is the only place where the big issues can be debated fairly.
As we strive for the stars and try to get people to become more than they are and perhaps more than they ever dreamed they could be is the science of the future. Is it not just as important to document the science of the past and follow it up vigorously.
It will cause pain but history with euphemism is a lie and lets humanity conveniently forget the real path to the present. Even more damagingly if we allow it to brush over the damage of the inconvenient past that certain events maybe as recent as 100 years ago have caused, then who is accountable if those events are still causing damage.
I will start with a big issue 'slavery' as it was a part of my countries history, a history that I was not taught about in school and that happened here in Australia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Island_Labourers_Act_1901) . Maybe this was just "embarrassing" but the fact is I still needed to be taught "that this is what we did" and especially as this is still having big impacts even today on the nations where these people were stolen from.
The anecdotal evidence of the descendants of this slavery is fast disappearing as they get so much older and very little effort is being made to follow it up before even that is gone. In a rush to rid our country of slavery for federation these people were forcibly repatriated (strewth now I am using euphemisms, we kicked them out).
Some stories are that they were taken home, some that they got as far as the first land fall and there are stories that the slaves were just paid for on the way out and the slaves dumped at sea so the ships could make extra runs for more profit.
I think we should know what happened from a scientific historical point of view. I do not want future generations shaking their heads saying if we had just told them of the terrible pain our actions caused then they too would not have done the same thing.
This is why I say without invoking politics as it is something that is avoided big time by political groups that may have too much self interest and may have too much to loose if one was to try to ask this question on their forums.
I will say I was highly impressed by the quality and decorum of the debate on the other moral topic that ran so long here as there is no forum I know of that could have hosted a debate of that intensity and calibre of thought and most likely not in the forums set exclusively for that group of followers. I would really like to be proved wrong and hear if self interest groups can really have a genuine discussion on the big issues, right or wrong. Not have them here but just list them to see "have evidence that they exist".
If forums devoted to issues can't be accountable then the intellectual elite is all that there is left to guide us to the stars and to ensure we don't just destroy what efforts right and wrong that it took to get us there.
As ever I believe we can only look to the scientific elite to show leadership.
And just to be sure I am non sided I firmly believe politics is not in the business of solving problems because they act as caretakers only prepared to manage them. As caretakers only I get very offended by these parties when they think their election is ownership with the endorsed right to sell off the hard work of our ancestors good and bad for short term gain when it should be directed at making great progress to platforms that future generations can build on. Worst yet if they had no problems to manage then they would invent them.
This may result in a ban for me but I accept that as I believe an intellectual forum is the only place where the big issues can be debated fairly.
As we strive for the stars and try to get people to become more than they are and perhaps more than they ever dreamed they could be is the science of the future. Is it not just as important to document the science of the past and follow it up vigorously.
It will cause pain but history with euphemism is a lie and lets humanity conveniently forget the real path to the present. Even more damagingly if we allow it to brush over the damage of the inconvenient past that certain events maybe as recent as 100 years ago have caused, then who is accountable if those events are still causing damage.
I will start with a big issue 'slavery' as it was a part of my countries history, a history that I was not taught about in school and that happened here in Australia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Island_Labourers_Act_1901) . Maybe this was just "embarrassing" but the fact is I still needed to be taught "that this is what we did" and especially as this is still having big impacts even today on the nations where these people were stolen from.
The anecdotal evidence of the descendants of this slavery is fast disappearing as they get so much older and very little effort is being made to follow it up before even that is gone. In a rush to rid our country of slavery for federation these people were forcibly repatriated (strewth now I am using euphemisms, we kicked them out).
Some stories are that they were taken home, some that they got as far as the first land fall and there are stories that the slaves were just paid for on the way out and the slaves dumped at sea so the ships could make extra runs for more profit.
I think we should know what happened from a scientific historical point of view. I do not want future generations shaking their heads saying if we had just told them of the terrible pain our actions caused then they too would not have done the same thing.
This is why I say without invoking politics as it is something that is avoided big time by political groups that may have too much self interest and may have too much to loose if one was to try to ask this question on their forums.
I will say I was highly impressed by the quality and decorum of the debate on the other moral topic that ran so long here as there is no forum I know of that could have hosted a debate of that intensity and calibre of thought and most likely not in the forums set exclusively for that group of followers. I would really like to be proved wrong and hear if self interest groups can really have a genuine discussion on the big issues, right or wrong. Not have them here but just list them to see "have evidence that they exist".
If forums devoted to issues can't be accountable then the intellectual elite is all that there is left to guide us to the stars and to ensure we don't just destroy what efforts right and wrong that it took to get us there.
As ever I believe we can only look to the scientific elite to show leadership.
And just to be sure I am non sided I firmly believe politics is not in the business of solving problems because they act as caretakers only prepared to manage them. As caretakers only I get very offended by these parties when they think their election is ownership with the endorsed right to sell off the hard work of our ancestors good and bad for short term gain when it should be directed at making great progress to platforms that future generations can build on. Worst yet if they had no problems to manage then they would invent them.