Finished Deathly Hallows - Discussion? SPOILERS

[Trebuchet]

I believe we need a thread where those of us who've finshed Harry Potter #7 can discuss without having to be coy about spoilers. I got done last night so here are a few thoughts:

1. Snape, the most interesting character in the series, turned out to be doing just what I thought.
2. I was slightly confused when Neville killed the snake. Where did he get the sword? Out of the hat? I'll have to re-read that bit.
3. I would have liked a little bit more "winding down" (there's a French word for that, but I don't know how to spell it!) after the climax.
4. And I didn't much care for the 19 years later chapter. Kind of dull, and I couldn't keept the kids straight. It would also have been nice to know what Harry, Ron, and Hermione are doing with their lives. Apparently none of them works at Hogwarts.

[Celestial Mechanic]

[Snip!]
3. I would have liked a little bit more "winding down" (there's a French word for that, but I don't know how to spell it!) after the climax.
I think the word you're looking for is denouement.
4. And I didn't much care for the 19 years later chapter. Kind of dull, and I couldn't keep the kids straight. It would also have been nice to know what Harry, Ron, and Hermione are doing with their lives. Apparently none of them works at Hogwarts.
Remember the unwritten first rule of writing (whether for print or for stage/screen): Always leave room for a sequel. :)

[Fazor]

as for #2, Harry stopped and gave it to Nevil on the way to the forrest to meet his destiny with Voldemort.

As for #4, I completely agree. I hated that chapter, but haven't been able to vent because my g/f isn't done reading it yet, and it's kinda a big spoiler to talk about it.

I was glad to see that, like you, I was right about Snape. I've always been kinda rooting for him to be the "Bad Good Guy". I like his character, and I thought the revealed love for Lilly really completed the picture with him.

I loved the final battle with Voldemort; biggest dork moment for me when I almost cheered out loud. :)

I kinda got the feeling that JKR wanted to kill off someone more central, like Ron or Ginny or Hermione, but couldn't bring her self to do it.

Lastly, I would have liked to see more of the aftermath within the Malfoy family. I thought JKR made a fairly quick and disconnected jump from dispicably evil (particularly Lucious, with Draco wanting to follow in his father's footsteps) to showing more of a humane side to them near the end.

[The Supreme Canuck]

2. I was slightly confused when Neville killed the snake. Where did he get the sword? Out of the hat? I'll have to re-read that bit.

Yep. The hat. I really don't get that bit - the goblin took it, right?

Anyway, I was frankly underwhelmed by the ending. No finality - it just peters out. So, not Tolstoy, pretty much what I expected.

Edit:

as for #2, Harry stopped and gave it to Nevil on the way to the forrest to meet his destiny with Voldemort.

Really? I thought he pulled it out of the hat.

[Trebuchet]

Harry didn't have the sword, the goblin Griphook took it when they raided Gringotts. That's what bothers me about the hat scenario. It was ok when the hat delivered it in the Chamber of Secrets, both of them plus the phoenix were in Dubledore's office. But in this case the sword was well away from Hogwarts.

[Fazor]

Did he? I can't remember, because as soon as I posted that I thought about it, and I think Harry just stopped and told Nevil that he had to make sure the snake got killed, but I don't specifically remember the sword.

The one thing that kind of bugged me was the "taboo" on saying Voldemort, that ultimately lead to Harry being captured. If Voldy had the power to do that, then couldn't he have done the same for the names "Harry" and "Hermione", which would fire off a lot of alarms, but would have quickly led them to Harry? Why wouldn't he just do that then?

It was just thrown in as a device to have Harry accidently slip up and say the name, and get them caught. But they way they were on the lamb, she didn't really need a device to do that. Would have been more believeable to just have one get spotted by the bands of people searching for Order members.

[Trebuchet]

There's apparently a rumor that there will be an eighth book which will be biographical info on the characters, some "outtakes" (scenes which were written but edited out), and some description of what happens after. But it apparently won't be a novel.

[The Supreme Canuck]

Did he? I can't remember, because as soon as I posted that I thought about it, and I think Harry just stopped and told Nevil that he had to make sure the snake got killed, but I don't specifically remember the sword.

He didn't have the sword at all in that scene - the goblin took it after they broke out of the vault in Gringotts.

[Fazor]

Yeah I had forgotten about that, and the fact that they instead used the Baslisk's fang to destroy the tiarra. I guess I was so into the moment of the imminent final battle that I didn't even consider the "where the heck did that sword come from" as I was reading it.

[BioSci]

2. I was slightly confused when Neville killed the snake. Where did he get the sword? Out of the hat? I'll have to re-read that bit.


Remember, the hat is magical !

In the CoS, the hat did not come with the sword - it appeared later when Harry needed it. Similar to DH.

Only a "true" Griffendore could pull the sword out of the hat...:)

I liked the play on a classic stage magician trick in CoS but did not understand why Voldemort would think to bring the hat into the story in DH.

[The Supreme Canuck]

But in CoS, it seems that the sword was put into the hat magically, and hidden there. In DH, the sword was patently not there.

[Fazor]

Voldy was familiar with the hat from his days at Hoggies. I'd guess it would have something to do with his percieved superiority of slytherin over the other houses. Additionally, the hat was a pretty important icon to the kids of Hogwarts, as the sorting was their first experience at the school.

[BioSci]

Yeah I had forgotten about that, and the fact that they instead used the Baslisk's fang to destroy the tiarra. I guess I was so into the moment of the imminent final battle that I didn't even consider the "where the heck did that sword come from" as I was reading it.

Better re-read :)
they used the Baslik's fang to destroy the cup but the fire destroyed the diadem tiarra.

[Fazor]

:doh: I should stop discussing the book while disecting music. My brain was created without the ability to multitask.

regarding the Gryphandor sword; I was waiting for Harry to jump out from under the cloak and assault Voldemort at any second. I was actually starting to get kinda TO'd that he had yet to do it when they were all fighting in the hall.

Most of the Hogwarts seige is a blur to me. I kept waiting for someone "important" to die. Not that Goyle or Fred weren't "important", but not as central as I was expecting. Really expected it to be Ron, Arthur, or Ginny.

[Matherly]

My understanding was that when Godric Griffindor made the Sorting Hat, he charmed it in such a way that his sword could be drawn from it by a "true" member of his house (i.e. Harry & Neville when the time came)

[Matherly]

Most of the Hogwarts seige is a blur to me. I kept waiting for someone "important" to die. Not that Goyle or Fred weren't "important", but not as central as I was expecting. Really expected it to be Ron, Arthur, or Ginny.

The way Harry finds out about 'Dora and Remus was a punch in the gut for me. And I've gotten the impression is was the same for others.

And while I wasn't upset about it, Hedwig's death pretty much signaled to me that the book was going to be an abbitoir

[The Supreme Canuck]

My understanding was that when Godric Griffindor made the Sorting Hat, he charmed it in such a way that his sword could be drawn from it by a "true" member of his house (i.e. Harry & Neville when the time came)

Sure, but does it transport it from wherever it is, or does it need to be placed in the hat first, as a protection for the sword? My understanding was the latter.

[Fazor]

The way Harry finds out about 'Dora and Remus was a punch in the gut for me. And I've gotten the impression is was the same for others.

And while I wasn't upset about it, Hedwig's death pretty much signaled to me that the book was going to be an abbitoir

Yeah I agree. There were some important deaths, but I think we were all thinking one of the "central" characters. Out of all the books, Dumbledor's death was still the most suprising/upsetting to me, but it had to be done.

[mugaliens]

I believe we need a thread where those of us who've finshed Harry Potter #7 can discuss without having to be coy about spoilers. I got done last night so here are a few thoughts:

1. Snape, the most interesting character in the series, turned out to be doing just what I thought.
2. I was slightly confused when Neville killed the snake. Where did he get the sword? Out of the hat? I'll have to re-read that bit.
3. I would have liked a little bit more "winding down" (there's a French word for that, but I don't know how to spell it!) after the climax.
4. And I didn't much care for the 19 years later chapter. Kind of dull, and I couldn't keept the kids straight. It would also have been nice to know what Harry, Ron, and Hermione are doing with their lives. Apparently none of them works at Hogwarts.

"3. I would have liked a little bit more "winding down" (there's a French word for that, but I don't know how to spell it!) after the climax."

Denoumont

[mugaliens]

The one thing that kind of bugged me was the "taboo" on saying Voldemort, that ultimately lead to Harry being captured. If Voldy had the power to do that, then couldn't he have done the same for the names "Harry" and "Hermione", which would fire off a lot of alarms, but would have quickly led them to Harry? Why wouldn't he just do that then?

It was just thrown in as a device to have Harry accidently slip up and say the name, and get them caught. But they way they were on the lamb, she didn't really need a device to do that. Would have been more believeable to just have one get spotted by the bands of people searching for Order members.

Whoopie. Say Voldemort's name, if taboo, was taboo from the first book, and V's presence the result thereof, therefore no long a plot device.

[snarkophilus]

(there's a French word for that, but I don't know how to spell it!)
Close. Denouement, with an accent aigu (bottom left to top right) over the first e.

The sword thing bugged me, as did the way in which Dumbledore acquired the Elder Wand. The thing is undefeatable, right? Whoever possesses it can't be beaten in a duel? So how could Dumbledore win his duel and take control of the wand?

The goblin concept of ownership has been on my mind, too. I know I've seen that idea somewhere before, and pondered it extensively, but I can't remember where. I like it, anyway.

It also annoyed me that Ron and Hermione played almost no part in the end. And that Neville beat the snake, but only got one or two pages in which to do it. Lots of stuff like that just got lightly touched... that could have been an epic battle scene, like with Eowyn vs the Nazgul in LoTR, but it wasn't.

It was kind of lame that the good guys just started using Unforgivable Curses all over the place. (Luke Skywalker didn't need to use the dark side to prevail.) And then Harry didn't even use one to kill Voldemort. I know she wanted to give this idea that things are more serious now, so more serious measures are needed, but the fact that the last blow struck wasn't one of those measures undermines the whole thing.

[The Supreme Canuck]

The whole concept of unforgivable curses wrankled - what's the difference between blowing someone up and killing them quickly? I'll tell you. The second is more humane. And yet the first was legal, while the second was not.

Strange.

[captain swoop]

Some of what happened was a result of continuity with the earlier books when I don't think JKR knew what was going to happen later, she wrote hereself into some corners.

I am expecting more books, You don't kill the Golden Goose!

[Trebuchet]

The goblin concept of ownership is highly reminiscent of software licensing! We made it, we own it, we'll let you use it on one computer but you can't transfer it to another computer or another person, any time, ever. Some recording artists were also heading in this direction a few years ago when they wanted a cut of the price of second hand CD's.

I have to re-read Harry's logic at the end about rightful mastery of the Elder Wand. If you had to kill the previous owner, and Dumbledore hadn't killed (insert name here, I've forgotten it), how could he have been the rightful master? And somehow by taking Malfoy's wand, Harry wound up master of the Elder? Very confusing.

[The Supreme Canuck]

You don't need to kill, just take the wand. If it is taken, the wand "knows" its master has been defeated, and it changes allegiance (continuity holes in previous books come up right here).

[snarkophilus]

You don't need to kill, just take the wand. If it is taken, the wand "knows" its master has been defeated, and it changes allegiance (continuity holes in previous books come up right here).
Yup... like when they were learning to duel in class, for instance?

And then... Harry took Malfoy's wand. Malfoy was also the master of the Elder Wand. But Harry didn't take that particular wand... so why would the good wand give up its allegiance to Malfoy? If you lose one duel in your life, does every other wand you own/will ever own decide to go over to the person who defeated you instead? Maybe wands are fickle and you have to trick them into working for you... but then you shouldn't be able to share them. Ick.

Also, didn't the hat catch fire on Neville's head? So how is it that they were talking about it at the end, nineteen years later? And Draco should have ended up teaching Defense Against the Dark Arts at the school. That would have made much sense.

[The Supreme Canuck]

Heck, I'm most disappointed by the way the book ends. "All was well" I think it was? Blech. I turned the page expecting at least another half-page of writing. Nothing. Gave me a bit of a lurch. No closure.

[GDwarf]

1. Snape, the most interesting character in the series, turned out to be doing just what I thought.
Same here.
2. I was slightly confused when Neville killed the snake. Where did he get the sword? Out of the hat? I'll have to re-read that bit.
Yep, the hat has the ability to magically summon the sword, as was shown in book 2. Now, back then it wasn't clear if the sword had been in the hat or if the hat had summoned the sword. The fact that it could be drawn from that hat a second time seems to show that the hat can, in fact, simply summon the sword from wherever it is.

4. And I didn't much care for the 19 years later chapter. Kind of dull, and I couldn't keept the kids straight. It would also have been nice to know what Harry, Ron, and Hermione are doing with their lives. Apparently none of them works at Hogwarts.
The ending read like a fan-fiction.

What I'd really like is for more info on what people are doing. Is Harry an Auror? Is Snape loved or hated? What is the public opinion of Dumbledore? Harry? What does Ginny do for her career? What about Hermione? Ron? Do House-elves/Centaurs now have greater rights due to their assistance in bringing down Voldemort? etc.


I also saw Lupin and Tonks's deaths as rather needless. If nothing else I'd have preferred they die "on screen", as it were.

However, I really, really liked the book, so I can forgive its minor faults.

[Pleiades]

I put this in the other thread, I didn't see this until later.

There is a link to an msnbc article at the Leaky Cauldron, that JKR gives up a bit more information about the trio, their jobs etc. Or I suppose you could go directly to msnbc.

I was always a Snape supporter so I was happy about some parts, initially not thrilled on how she offed him. But now thinking about it, he couldn't have been in the final battle either throwing himself in front of a curse or whatnot...too gryffindor. It happened behind the scenes as many of the others things he did.

[Trebuchet]

I knew Snape was a goner from the time I read the last book. But I did figure it would come out he was doing Dubledore's bidding.

They had a bit of an interview with Rowling on MSNBC last night. Unfortunately with Meridith Viera, but also with some kids who asked questions. She said Harry and Ron have transformed the Auror department, and Hermione is high up in the department of magical law enforcement. One of the kids asked her if she always knew Snape would end up a hero. She said she didn't consider him a hero and described him as a bully. She also said he wouldn't have helped Harry except that he always loved Lily.

A couple of other characters I'd have like to see get their come-uppance: Umbridge. Rowling's description of her as toad-like is an insult to toads.
Skeeter. Has Hermione outed her as an animagus?

[Matherly]

I think the majority of compaints about continutiy errors are not really errors, but an example of "Well, I would have..."

For example, the suggestion that all wands instantly chnage sides after a duel was never said. Only that to take someone else's wand, you had to get the wand alligence (usually by defeating her/him and taking the wand). However, it was clear that even the vaunted wandmakers were not completely sure how it worked.

And did the Elder Wand break the rules? Youbetcha! It was one of the frakin' Deathly Hallows. All three of them broke the rules! That was the point.

As for the ending... everything doesn't have to be explained. I mean, do you complain about Tolkien not explaining Tom Bombadill?

[captain swoop]

Everytghing shouldn't be explained and described to the tiniest detail. We have to have some space for imagination.

[Fazor]

Hermione should have ended up married to Draco. now THAT would have been a suprise! :)

[The Supreme Canuck]

I mean, do you complain about Tolkien not explaining Tom Bombadill?

No. I complain about Tom Bombadill!

[Gillianren]

Hey, Treb, you leaving the "m" out of Dumbledore's name for a reason?

I'm going to have to reread when my brain settles some. Stupid medication. But my impressions, for what they're worth, are as follows.

Apparently, Hedwig's death is the one that no spoiler site bothered to mention. Yet it's one of the ones where I came closest to crying, and I think I would have cried had I not started new drugs the day before. I was stunned. Disheartened. Despairing. Poor Hedwig; she got kind of a raw deal.

I have been saying for five years that she wouldn't kill a twin, ever since I heard that she was going to kill a Weasley. (She also said it wouldn't be Ron, as the hero's best friend always dies.) You can't kill one but not the other, I said. Shows me, huh? Then again, I was wrong so many times about what she was going to do. To the extent that I did a little happy dance when it turned out that R.A.B. was, indeed, Sirius's brother.

How obvious was it that "Romulus" was really Remus Lupin? Seriously? I mean, I'd imagine he was rather in hiding regardless--werewolf and all that--but come on!

I nearly cried when the twin died. (Can't remember which one; stupid drugs.) Again, under ordinary circumstances, I would have.

And Mrs. Weasley! How stompy was she? That was so cool!

[Moose]

I nearly cried when the twin died. (Can't remember which one; stupid drugs.) Again, under ordinary circumstances, I would have.

Fred. George lost an ear.

And Mrs. Weasley! How stompy was she? That was so cool!

Yeah, seeing her opening a really BIG can of WA on the death eaters was definitely a highlight.

[Trebuchet]

Hey, Treb, you leaving the "m" out of Dumbledore's name for a reason?

I'm going to have to reread when my brain settles some. Stupid medication. But my impressions, for what they're worth, are as follows.

Apparently, Hedwig's death is the one that no spoiler site bothered to mention. Yet it's one of the ones where I came closest to crying, and I think I would have cried had I not started new drugs the day before. I was stunned. Disheartened. Despairing. Poor Hedwig; she got kind of a raw deal.

I have been saying for five years that she wouldn't kill a twin, ever since I heard that she was going to kill a Weasley. (She also said it wouldn't be Ron, as the hero's best friend always dies.) You can't kill one but not the other, I said. Shows me, huh? Then again, I was wrong so many times about what she was going to do. To the extent that I did a little happy dance when it turned out that R.A.B. was, indeed, Sirius's brother.

How obvious was it that "Romulus" was really Remus Lupin? Seriously? I mean, I'd imagine he was rather in hiding regardless--werewolf and all that--but come on!

I nearly cried when the twin died. (Can't remember which one; stupid drugs.) Again, under ordinary circumstances, I would have.

And Mrs. Weasley! How stompy was she? That was so cool!

Dumbledore Dumbledore Dumbledore Dumbledore

Wow. I left it out twice when I first typed those.

My theory is that my brain works faster than my fingers. So the fingers leave things out to try to catch up. That of course doesn't explain why I nearly always type "ration" when I mean "ratio".

I was also quite upset about Hedwig.

Rowling said in the MSNBC interview that she intended to kill Mr. Weasley in the fifth book, but couldn't bring herself to do it. I'd have voted for Percy, myself.

[Eroica]

Overall I was quite disappointed with Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. I thought it was very awkwardly plotted. It was as though JKR had left herself with too many storylines to tie up neatly, and consequently some of them are just cut off like annoying loose ends.

For example, Percy's change of heart was predictable - but when he emerged from the hole into the Room of Requirement near the end I nearly threw the book out the window. It was just a hamfisted way of tying up that loose end. And after that I was half-expecting Dudley to appear through the same hole! (Dudley's change of heart also seemed tagged on - as though JKR wanted to get it in while she still had time.)

Each of the previous books in the series had its own unique quality and completeness, but The Deathly Hallows seemed more like an appendage hanging from The Half-Blood Prince. We had Harry, Ron and Hermione off on another adventure, squabbling as usual, falling out, before being ultimately reconciled. We had Harry's interminable self-doubting. We even had the long revelatory dialogue between Harry and Dumbledore near the end.

And poor Voldemort. He never stood a chance. It's bad enough when Harry Potter, Dumbledore's Army and the Order of the Phoenix are up against you - but when the author also has it in for you, and is quite prepared to insert herself into the novel as a deus ex machina whenever the plot needs some tweaking to ensure Harry's ultimate and complete victory, well, Voldy, it's time to raise the white flag!

I hated the epilogue. It read like a piece of sugar-coated, crowd-pleasing Hollywood trash, an exercise in cop-outery. At least now I know how Ron felt when he was hit by that puking jinx!

The Hallows themselves seemed to be a last-minute addition to the plot. I'm sure they weren't - the Cloak of Invisibility was there from Book 1 - but that's how they felt to me.

The visit to Godric's Hollow was a big disappointment. I was sure that was going to be big moment in the whole series.

Smuggling everyone into Hogwarts for the final showdown was just too easy. Death Eaters to the left of them, Dementors to the Right of Them ... oh, wait, it seems there yet another secret passage into Hogwarts that no one knows about - except the DA, the Hogsmeade barman (who just happens to be Dumbledore's brother!) and the Order of the Phoenix. But how can we Apparate into Hogsmeade without the Death Eaters catching us? No problem: you can Apparate directly into the tavern. The Death Eaters are only monitoring the streets. Hmm, the Death Eaters seem to have left a bit of a loop-hole there, didn't they? Not unlike the loop-hole that allows one to Apparate onto the front step of Grimmauld's Place without being seen!

Snape's role as Dumbledore's mole in Voldemort's ranks was probably sussed by every adult reader early on in The Half-Blood Prince, but JKR is writing for children and most of them probably fell for it - my niece certainly did, and nothing I said could persuade her that Snape's killing of Dumbledore was part of Dumbledore's plan all along. But Snape was the most interesting character - so why is he almost non-existent in this book? Instead we spend most of the time with three of the least interesting characters!

Criticism is one thing, but I'm reluctant to pick actual holes in the plot, as I have yet to read the book again slowly and carefully. Still, there are a few headscratchers (some of which have already been mentioned on this thread):

How did Neville pull Gryffindor's sword out of the Sorting Hat when Griphook had absconded with the sword?

Why did Voldemort think that only he knew about the Room of Requirement? When he hid the diadem in it wasn't it full of items that had been hidden by generations of Hogwarts students?

Why did Dumbledore think that Harry had to die for Voldemort to die? The prophecy (Neither shall live while the other survives), when interpreted literally and logically, says: "Either Voldemort lives and Harry dies, or Harry lives and Voldemort dies". Even if Harry is a bit dim, Hermione could have helped him unravel the logic.

Where is Harry when he meets Dumbledore in King's Cross? Is he dead? Does he come back from the dead? Or is he just halfway between life and death? And what happens to the Horcrux that is a part of Harry? Does it die? If not, does that mean that even at the end there is a bit of Voldemort living in Harry?

What were the fates of those characters who are not mentioned at the end. (I'd have to read it again to find out just who they are, but I think we are left in the dark as to the fate of Luna and a few others.)

Nineteen Years Later? Why not Twenty? Am I missing something here?

There's certainly room for sequels, and there even seem to be a few hints that we are going to get them, after all!

Of course I'll read them...

[dgruss23]

I have absolutely no complaints about the book. I think what JKR did with this last book was absolutely brilliant and flawless. Most of the things that people are saying didn't make sense, do in fact make sense if you go back and re-read the relevant parts of the book.

There is so many levels of brilliance to the way she wound this story together. You could get philosophical about it too.

For example. We find out that Snape loved Lily and was protecting her son. So why does he treat Harry like crap throughout the books? Well the simple answer is that it is a means of protecting him by playing his part in Dumbledore's plan. But a deeper reason is that Snape didn't want Harry to turn out as arrogant as Harry's father had been. Snape saw the traits Harry shared with his father and sought to beat that out of him. Think about the detentions in book 6 - Harry had to rearrange disipline cards starting with cards that showed his father's bad behavior.

In the first 6 books Dumbledore seems almost a flawless with pure motives. But in the 7th book we find out he had failings after all (desire to see if he can aquire the deathy hallows). Contrast that with Harry who through the first 6 books seems to repeatedly suffer from poor judgement and risk taking, and survived repeatedly with a lot of luck and guts. Yet in book 7 he does not give in to the temptations that Dumbledore gave in to and defeats Voldemort because of it.

And I like that Harry didn't have to use the killing curse to defeat Voldemort. I also like the Epilogue. After the misery of his first 17 years, what more does one really need to know other than that 19 years later he's had 19 good years following his defeat of voldemort?

[schlaugh]

When they were wandering around England I wondered why in the heck Herminoe, Ron and Harry didn't simply teleport to someplace where Voldy wouldn't follow? Newark comes to mind. :)

I'm glad the series is done and for me it was largely a good read. I always though that JRK was able to tell a story well, which is 90% of good writing.

For me she hit her peak with Goblet of Fire. After that the movie cash (and needs) started rolling in and the writing changed. The climax of Order seemed to read more like stage direction, as did the end of Half Blood and Hallows.

If she decides to do a sequel - either of the 19-year period or after - I hope she farms out some of the writingto some savvy new authors. But with all that wealth I can't imagine she'd want to keep writing, at least in any meaningful way.

[hhEb09'1]

But with all that wealth I can't imagine she'd want to keep writing, at least in any meaningful way.She's written since she was six, she can't stop :)

[Moose]

But a deeper reason is that Snape didn't want Harry to turn out as arrogant as Harry's father had been. Snape saw the traits Harry shared with his father and sought to beat that out of him. Think about the detentions in book 6 - Harry had to rearrange disipline cards starting with cards that showed his father's bad behavior.

In a way, this is true, but at the most primitive level, Snape hated James as much as he loved Lily. ...And hated her for rejecting him for James. Seeing so much of James in Harry, as well as Lily's eyes must have been absolutely maddening to Snape, over and above his usual cranky.

Betraying Voldemort for Lily was pretty much a given, but lashing out at her son was almost equally a given.

The clue is at the end: the last thing he said was an order to Harry to look into his eyes. So that he would carry the memory of Lily's eyes with him into death. The only time he would ever had been able to bring himself to deliberately seek out that memory.

[Moose]

When they were wandering around England I wondered why in the heck Herminoe, Ron and Harry didn't simply teleport to someplace where Voldy wouldn't follow? Newark comes to mind. :)

There's a mention (IIRC in Deathly Hallows) of Apparition having a maximum range. The mention wasn't fleshed out to any real degree.

[Donnie B.]

There's a mention (IIRC in Deathly Hallows) of Apparition having a maximum range. The mention wasn't fleshed out to any real degree.
Well, you have to have a very clear mental picture of where you're going. Destination, Determination, Deliberation! That would be problematic if it's a place you've never been before. (But that's not 100% consistent either, since Harry and Hermione Apparated to Godric's Hollow, which neither had been to since Harry was an infant.)

Concerning Tom Riddle's choice of hiding places for the tiara: I don't see an issue with his imagining the Room of Requirement to be his discovery and his alone. Remember how the room works -- it provides you with exactly what you need. Riddle was looking for a perfect hiding place unknown to anyone else, and that's what the room gave him. He didn't see the other things hidden there because he didn't expect to see them, and so the room didn't show them to him. It was his own arrogance that made him think no one else knew of, or would ever find, the room.

Concerning the sword in the Sorting Hat: ironically, the movie of CoS depicted the situation more clearly than the books did (in retrospect). When the hat lands in front of Harry, it's empty. Only later does the sword appear. That's consistent with the hat being able to summon the sword at need, not with someone having placed the sword there before Fawkes carried it to Harry. Besides, at the time, Dumbledore wasn't present at Hogwarts (that's why Harry and Ron decided to enter the Chamber themselves), so DD couldn't have loaded the hat for Harry (unless he did so in advance).

One thing I really appreciated about DH was the way Jo continued to strip from Harry all his most beloved assets. That started back in OotP with the loss of Sirius, continued with Dumbledore in HBP, and then accelerated through much of DH -- the safe haven of Privet Drive, Hedwig and Mad Eye, access to support from the Ministry (not that he'd had much of that anyway), Ron, his wand... by that point I was really wondering if he'd have anything at all left by the end. But this progression is very consistent with the classic Hero Myth, where the hero is stripped of all support and has his soul burned pure before he can fulfill his quest.

Another thing I loved was the desanctification of Dumbledore. Harry learns that even his idol and mentor had feet of clay. Somewhat related to this was the revelation that I expected -- that DD ordered Snape to kill him because he was already dying -- but not for the reason I expected. It wasn't the poison from the locket's basin that was killing him; it was the curse from the Resurrection Stone that withered his hand when he foolishly tried to use it.

Two other scenes I loved: our glimpse of Luna's bedroom at home, with its touching "friends" ribbon; and the winning of Kreacher and his subsequent new lease on life.

[captain swoop]

I predict a TV series set in Hogwarts, about a dozen 45 min episodes, but made in the USA with Hogwarts depicted as a standard TV High School.

[hhEb09'1]

I predict a TV series set in Hogwarts, about a dozen 45 min episodes, but made in the USA with Hogwarts depicted as a standard TV High School.and, it's a musical

[korjik]

Overall I was quite disappointed with Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. I thought it was very awkwardly plotted. It was as though JKR had left herself with too many storylines to tie up neatly, and consequently some of them are just cut off like annoying loose ends.

For example, Percy's change of heart was predictable - but when he emerged from the hole into the Room of Requirement near the end I nearly threw the book out the window. It was just a hamfisted way of tying up that loose end. And after that I was half-expecting Dudley to appear through the same hole! (Dudley's change of heart also seemed tagged on - as though JKR wanted to get it in while she still had time.)

Each of the previous books in the series had its own unique quality and completeness, but The Deathly Hallows seemed more like an appendage hanging from The Half-Blood Prince. We had Harry, Ron and Hermione off on another adventure, squabbling as usual, falling out, before being ultimately reconciled. We had Harry's interminable self-doubting. We even had the long revelatory dialogue between Harry and Dumbledore near the end.

And poor Voldemort. He never stood a chance. It's bad enough when Harry Potter, Dumbledore's Army and the Order of the Phoenix are up against you - but when the author also has it in for you, and is quite prepared to insert herself into the novel as a deus ex machina whenever the plot needs some tweaking to ensure Harry's ultimate and complete victory, well, Voldy, it's time to raise the white flag!

I hated the epilogue. It read like a piece of sugar-coated, crowd-pleasing Hollywood trash, an exercise in cop-outery. At least now I know how Ron felt when he was hit by that puking jinx!

The Hallows themselves seemed to be a last-minute addition to the plot. I'm sure they weren't - the Cloak of Invisibility was there from Book 1 - but that's how they felt to me.

The visit to Godric's Hollow was a big disappointment. I was sure that was going to be big moment in the whole series.

Smuggling everyone into Hogwarts for the final showdown was just too easy. Death Eaters to the left of them, Dementors to the Right of Them ... oh, wait, it seems there yet another secret passage into Hogwarts that no one knows about - except the DA, the Hogsmeade barman (who just happens to be Dumbledore's brother!) and the Order of the Phoenix. But how can we Apparate into Hogsmeade without the Death Eaters catching us? No problem: you can Apparate directly into the tavern. The Death Eaters are only monitoring the streets. Hmm, the Death Eaters seem to have left a bit of a loop-hole there, didn't they? Not unlike the loop-hole that allows one to Apparate onto the front step of Grimmauld's Place without being seen!

Snape's role as Dumbledore's mole in Voldemort's ranks was probably sussed by every adult reader early on in The Half-Blood Prince, but JKR is writing for children and most of them probably fell for it - my niece certainly did, and nothing I said could persuade her that Snape's killing of Dumbledore was part of Dumbledore's plan all along. But Snape was the most interesting character - so why is he almost non-existent in this book? Instead we spend most of the time with three of the least interesting characters!

Criticism is one thing, but I'm reluctant to pick actual holes in the plot, as I have yet to read the book again slowly and carefully. Still, there are a few headscratchers (some of which have already been mentioned on this thread):

How did Neville pull Gryffindor's sword out of the Sorting Hat when Griphook had absconded with the sword?

A Gryffindor can find the sword when it is needed. Same way as Harry got it in Chamber of secrets

Why did Voldemort think that only he knew about the Room of Requirement? When he hid the diadem in it wasn't it full of items that had been hidden by generations of Hogwarts students?

He was an arrogant something who couldnt see his own flaws.

Why did Dumbledore think that Harry had to die for Voldemort to die? The prophecy (Neither shall live while the other survives), when interpreted literally and logically, says: "Either Voldemort lives and Harry dies, or Harry lives and Voldemort dies". Even if Harry is a bit dim, Hermione could have helped him unravel the logic.

Dumbledore figured out that Harry was a horcrux. That meant that for V to die the horcrux needed to be destroyed, a process generally fatal to the horcrux. That would fufill the prophecy. Dumbledore needed a way around that.

Where is Harry when he meets Dumbledore in King's Cross? Is he dead? Does he come back from the dead? Or is he just halfway between life and death? And what happens to the Horcrux that is a part of Harry? Does it die? If not, does that mean that even at the end there is a bit of Voldemort living in Harry?

The station was the same as the talk just before walking in to the light as seen in other places. The threshold between life and death, where the hero goes back to finish up and/or live out his life.

The horcrux was broken. The portion of Voldemort that was the horcrux was the thing on the floor of the station, and it didnt go back with Harry


What were the fates of those characters who are not mentioned at the end. (I'd have to read it again to find out just who they are, but I think we are left in the dark as to the fate of Luna and a few others.)

Nineteen Years Later? Why not Twenty? Am I missing something here?

There's certainly room for sequels, and there even seem to be a few hints that we are going to get them, after all!

Of course I'll read them...

While I agree that it would be nice to hear what happened to everyone, she didnt have to put even the little bit she did in at the end. Besides, this way we can speculate for years at who ended up where :)

[Donnie B.]

For those interested, JK Rowling held a web chat in which she answered questions from readers. She gave a LOT of information about the many loose ends in DH, though not every issue raised here was addressed.

There were over 120,000 questions submitted. She answered a couple dozen or so. Quite interesting. There is a transcript here:

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2007/7/30/j-k-rowling-web-chat-transcript

[Celestial Mechanic]

I predict a TV series set in Hogwarts, about a dozen 45 min episodes, but made in the USA with Hogwarts depicted as a standard TV High School.
and, it's a musical
And then finally we have the "reality TV" show of mostly untalented youngsters auditioning to be on this show! :eek:

[Redtail]

The only problem I had with it was that no one set Rita Skeeter's shoes on fire.

[Moose]

Just wanted to mention quickly: spotted a "new face" in Goblet of Fire which I've just finished re-watching tonight. I hadn't realized David Tennant played Barty Crouch, Jr.

[hhEb09'1]

And then finally we have the "reality TV" show of mostly untalented youngsters auditioning to be on this show! :eek:do we get to vote by phone? please please please

[ineluki]

do we get to vote by phone?

Of course not, send your Owl.

[Trebuchet]

By the way, I really want one of those tents with more room in the inside than the outside. And the magic bag to put it in, where not only do the stored objects take up no space, but don't weigh anything either.

I think I've seen something similar to the tent in a S.F. novel. Heinlein?

[schlaugh]

By the way, I really want one of those tents with more room in the inside than the outside. And the magic bag to put it in, where not only do the stored objects take up no space, but don't weigh anything either.

I think I've seen something similar to the tent in a S.F. novel. Heinlein?

Yep. Glory Road. Carried all kinds of goodies, including a bazooka IIRC.

[Trebuchet]

I'm not sure I read that one. It may have been in The Cat Who Walked Through Walls that I saw it.

[schlaugh]

Could also have been in Cat. I can't recall because I found the book forgettable. (RAH badly needed an editor in his later years, IMO. And I like Heinlein.)

A couple of his stories also touched on that kind of odd topology. One (similar ) short story was about a house built as a 3-D representation of a 4-D Tesseract. The house collapses during a mild earthquake...and now the building looks like a cube but all the rooms are still there connected to one another - and to a few other places.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesseract#Projections_to_3_dimensions

Hermione's magic bag was one of the devices I liked in the book. Wish I had one!

[Celestial Mechanic]

[Snip!]

A couple of his stories also touched on that kind of odd topology. One (similar ) short story was about a house built as a 3-D representation of a 4-D Tesseract. The house collapses during a mild earthquake...and now the building looks like a cube but all the rooms are still there connected to one another - and to a few other places. [Snip!]
The title was "And He Built a Crooked House".

[Gillianren]

By the way, I really want one of those tents with more room in the inside than the outside. And the magic bag to put it in, where not only do the stored objects take up no space, but don't weigh anything either.

I think I've seen something similar to the tent in a S.F. novel. Heinlein?

The one non-spoiler comment I was able to make to my gamer-geek neighbours was, "Hermione makes a bag of holding!"

[snarkophilus]

The one non-spoiler comment I was able to make to my gamer-geek neighbours was, "Hermione makes a bag of holding!"
I spoke almost those exact words! It differed from a bag of holding in one respect, though. I can't remember what it was, but it threw me for a loop. I remember thinking to myself, "wait a minute... a bag of holding can't do that." Then I realised that it was a Harry Potter book....

[darkhunter]

I spoke almost those exact words! It differed from a bag of holding in one respect, though. I can't remember what it was, but it threw me for a loop. I remember thinking to myself, "wait a minute... a bag of holding can't do that." Then I realised that it was a Harry Potter book....
They put a sword in it--do that to a bag of holding and it could "pop" it and you lose everything.

[Eroica]

Curiously, my main criticism of the series is the same as my main criticism of Tolkien (or, for that matter, Star Wars): the victory of good over evil comes too easily and at too low a cost.

In the end Voldemort was a straw man.

[hhEb09'1]

Curiously, my main criticism of the series is the same as my main criticism of Tolkien (or, for that matter, Star Wars): the victory of good over evil comes too easily and at too low a cost.Does that criticism extend to World War II, then? :)

[sarongsong]

Worst Person nominee:August 1, 2007
...At the final assembly of the term last Friday, their headmistress picked up the 607-page book - and read from the last page to her astonished captive audience...Mrs Banfield was away on holiday yesterday and unavailable for comment...
Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=472051&in_page_id=1770)

[schlaugh]

1. What the $#%@ was she thinking?

2. 607 pages? They must be using smaller a typeface in the UK.

3. If that's the cover art for the UK Bloomsbury editions then I think I like it.

[pumpkinpie]

I agree it's an unthoughtful thing for her to do, but some parents are taking it a bit too far: Parents were also fuming over the incident. Maria Travers, whose son Travis, eight, goes to the school, said: "He's read the last three books but there's no point reading this one now."

Another mother, who declined to be named, said: "It's appalling. My son was going to read a book instead of playing on his computer and I was going to have some peace and quiet.

Because they know what happens on the last page, there's no reason to read the whole book? If I had somehow found out how it ended, I still would have read it.

Additionally, all they would have found out from that passage is who lived. There are so many other details to be found in the rest of the book.

[Celestial Mechanic]

[Snip!] Because they know what happens on the last page, there's no reason to read the whole book? If I had somehow found out how it ended, I still would have read it.

Additionally, all they would have found out from that passage is who lived. There are so many other details to be found in the rest of the book.
I've started reading the Harry Potter books only this year and I am currently reading through Half-Blood Prince for the first time. I sought out the spoilers for Deathly Hallows but I still intend to read it, even if I know what is on the last page. After all, getting there is half the fun. (Actually much more than half!) :)

[Trebuchet]

Anybody else wondering what was with Dudley's change of heart in the beginning? I was expecting that to have some signficance later on, but it never came up again. I half expected Dudley to have discovered some magical ability, gone over to you-know-who, and revealed the plans for Harry's move.

[Moose]

According to JK Rowling in the link (by Donnie B further up the thread), it was triggered by the Dementor attack in book... er... five(?) combined with a bit of maturity.

Superhans: What was duldeys worst memory?

J.K. Rowling: I think that when Dudley was attacked by the Dementors he saw himself, for the first time, as he really was. This was an extremely painful, but ultimately salutory lesson, and began the transformation in him.

[Eroica]

Does that criticism extend to World War II, then? :)
No, only to works of art.

[hhEb09'1]

Why can't works of art be realistic? I mean, as far as that goes, not that Harry Potter or Yoda is realor anything like that

[snarkophilus]

607 pages? They must be using smaller a typeface in the UK.
My (Canadian) copy has 607 pages. This confused me a little, because I'd heard it was over 700, but I suppose there must be different editions.

I also just found out that the book goes for $30 in the USA, but $45 in Canada, even though the two dollars are almost even. What's the deal with that?

[captain swoop]

It would only need to be a minor change in point size to add a good number of pages. Even the same point size with slightly different Leading or Kerning would cause a jump in pages

[Moose]

I also just found out that the book goes for $30 in the USA, but $45 in Canada, even though the two dollars are almost even. What's the deal with that?

I suspect the companies complaining about "oh, poor us, we've deep-discounted so much we're losing money" may not have lost out as much as we're being led to believe.

I think the Canadian publishers may have pulled a fast one. Still, we mostly all ended up paying what the book should have cost, without the shenanigans. I'm willing to call it a "draw".

[davidlpf]

It was $30 Canadian at the store saw at the day it came out, but it only five minute drive to states so if the try to sell at $45 everyone would just go over there and buy the book there.

[Donnie B.]

The British edition also has fewer pages than the US edition. The Canadian edition may be the same as the British.

The difference is partly because those don't have the start-of-chapter illustrations and several blank pages, partly it's smaller type. It's a "green" thing, too -- fewer pages, fewer trees.

[Eroica]

Why can't works of art be realistic? I mean, as far as that goes, not that Harry Potter or Yoda is realor anything like that
They can be ... I just insist on my right to criticize them for it! :)

[snarkophilus]

The difference is partly because those don't have the start-of-chapter illustrations and several blank pages, partly it's smaller type. It's a "green" thing, too -- fewer pages, fewer trees.
There are illustrations? And I didn't get them? Now I'm upset....

[Donnie B.]

The US editions have small illustrations at the start of each chapter, drawn by the same artist (Mary Grand Pre) who does the US dust jacket art.

[Captain Kidd]

The special edition, US edition at least, also has full-page illustrations at the end. Most are larger prints of the chapter art, but there's some others in there too.

[VPCCD]

When I went to get my copy at Wall-Mart there were a whole lot of religous people protesting outside and saying I was going to hell.....it was actually kind of funny though becuase I know that half of them had never even picked up a harry potter book. :lol:

[Jens]

I have to agree with a bunch of others, that the last chapter was pretty lame (I mean the 17 years later one). I thought that was something that they did in movies (I still remember it from Animal House). But I didn't think authors did that. Oh well, it means that the later HP books are made for movies, not surprising.

Also, I really didn't understand the ending. I thought that a certain major character had to die to get rid of Voldemort.

Also, as I was finishing the book, I had a strange thought. H didn't have to kill V. Once he knew that the snake was dead, he could have negotiated. Hey, V, you've got a problem. If you kill me, you're dead automatically. So you have two choices: (1) be my slave, and (2) we fight it out; either way you lose. H could have gotten himself a slave, I think.

[Donnie B.]

What would Harry want with a slave?

[antoniseb]

What would Harry want with a slave?
Especially one as ugly and self serving as old snake-face.
Besides, he has his house elf, which seems to be better than V could ever be.

[Trebuchet]

Voldemort DID kill Harry. Harry went off to "King's Cross", the station where he could catch the "train" to the afterlife. As did a fraction of Voldemort. After discussion with Dumbledore, Harry chose to go back.

At this point the connection between Harry and Voldemort has been severed. Of course V didn't know Harry was the seventh horcrux anyhow so Harry had no leverage to negotiate.

By the way, Harry did have a slave -- Kreacher the house elf.

[Cylinder]

Voldemort DID kill Harry. Harry went off to "King's Cross", the station where he could catch the "train" to the afterlife. As did a fraction of Voldemort. After discussion with Dumbledore, Harry chose to go back.

At least Dumbledore seemed convinced that Harry was not dead. From pp. 707-708 of the US publication:

"But you're dead," said Harry.

"Oh, yes," said Dumbledore matter-of-factly.

"Then...am I dead too?"

"Ah," said Dumbledore smiling still more broadly. "That is the question, isn't it? On the whole, dear boy, I think not."

They looked at each other, the old man still beaming.

"Not?" repeated Harry.

"Not," said Dumbledore.

Dumbledore goes on to speculate that in the process of regenerating his body using Harry's blood (in Goblet of Fire) Voldemort "tethered you [Harry] to life while he [Voldemort] lives." In effect, by retaining some of Harry's blood with his own he also retained the protection afforded Harry by Lily Potter's charm created at her death.

[Donnie B.]

It's a neat irony that when he used the A-K curse on Harry, Voldemort managed only to destroy his own (accidental) Horcrux. Not only did he fail yet again to kill Harry, he also participated in his own ultimate demise.

[Jens]

It's a neat irony that ....

What's so neat about it? The one thing that has consistently irritated me about the series is, Gryffindor wins, Gryffindor wins, Harry wins, Gryffindor wins, Harry wins, Gryffindor wins, Harry wins, blah, blah, blah. I thought for once she was going to buck the trend. I guess I'm a Slytherin at heart. :)

Though I should also say it makes a better Hollywood movie series this way.

[The_Radiation_Specialist]

I think the entire series was rather lame. Now that I think of it I must have made a bad choice to have read it as a child (4 years ago I was 12).
Her technique of having something happen at the beginning and then relating that as a big part of the puzzle at the end of the book always made me reluctant to read the book again...
I read somewhere why these books became so famous is because New York Times failed to recognize it as a children's book when it came out and listed it on the topsellers. If this hadn't happened there would have been not have been such a craze about the whole thing...


It ended pretty lame too. Voldermort died, everyone married and had kids...

[pilgrim]

Um, how come nobody mentioned the death of Dobby (or at least that I've noticed)? I found that a bit of a personal blow, as well as killing off Lupin and Tonks, and Fred, of course. I do think it was kind of necessary to kill some of my favourite characters but that doesn't mean I wanted them to die as such. All in all I was plesantly surprised with the Deathly Hallows. I had been worried after the Half Blood Prince, which I found pretty bad as a book, kind of boring for most and an overall mess where nothing seems to happen for most of it. The last comment seems to apply to DH as well, but to a lesser extent and there's parts of DH I reckon can hold their own against any of the other HP books (the Gringotts break-in!!!). Most of my plot guesses were confirmed or ellaborated on, so no real surprises there. I wish there had been more Snape, he was an interesting character. The '19 years later' bit wasn't great, particularly seeing as according to the timeline derived from the tomb stones of Potters', it was set around 2017. I guess divination wasn't as much a quackery as JKR initially suggested...
Other than that, I started reading HP when I was 13, about 8 years ago, and kind of grew up as the books seemed to grow up, so I have a soft spot for them. However, my favouirte HP books is still Order of the Phoenix. The Umbridge decrees of MOM and Weasley's Portable Swamp still make me giggle!

[Eroica]

The whole series seems to have ended with a whimper rather than a bang. There hasn't been much media interest in it since the launch. Perhaps I'm not alone in being very disappointed with the Deathly Hallows....

[The_Radiation_Specialist]

And isn't anyone talking about the extremely boring first half in DH? I was on the verge of believing JKR thinking this is the last one wrote this one absolutely dull.

It was very discouraging when all you had was harry is thinking, then he goes to Voldys mind then a dream then faint/scream then hermy saying "harry are you sure you are alright?!!" "close your mind!!!" "Dumby want's you to!!!"

I think the books are suited (for me anyways) for under 14.

[pilgrim]

I think the books are suited (for me anyways) for under 14.

There's some bits which are a lot more suited for older readers, though, particularly stuff involving the ministry of magic decrees and press. But yeah,they are primarily kids books as opposed to young adult or adult fantasy fiction.

[GDwarf]

I'd disagree there. The first 3 were kids books, but 4-7 grew up a fair amount.

Her technique of having something happen at the beginning and then relating that as a big part of the puzzle at the end of the book always made me reluctant to read the book again...
Er, what's the alternative? No mystery, just have everything explained right away? How does that make re-reading it any better?

I read somewhere why these books became so famous is because New York Times failed to recognize it as a children's book when it came out and listed it on the topsellers. If this hadn't happened there would have been not have been such a craze about the whole thing...
Which is why all the other books also sold so well, of course. I mean, people read the first one because it was on the NYT best sellers list (Which I doubt.) and then all thought: "You know, this is utter dreck, I'll have to buy the other 6, though."

It ended pretty lame too. Voldermort died, everyone married and had kids...
I see this complaint fairly often, and it confuses me. What would you rather happen? Voldemort wins? Yes, that would be a great way to end the series.

[pilgrim]

What would you rather happen? Voldemort wins? Yes, that would be a great way to end the series.

I would have thought a pretty cool (though not necessarily children-friendly) ending would be to kill both Harry and Voldemort. Maybe Ginny as well, so then you could have a 'King's Cross' station final chapter where even though they're dead, it's kind of just beginning.... It would be kind of...epic, like when Frodo leaves Middle Earth with the elves (think that's how Tolkien used to spell it, as opposed to elfs).

[Donnie B.]

I would have thought a pretty cool (though not necessarily children-friendly) ending would be to kill both Harry and Voldemort. Maybe Ginny as well, so then you could have a 'King's Cross' station final chapter where even though they're dead, it's kind of just beginning.... It would be kind of...epic, like when Frodo leaves Middle Earth with the elves (think that's how Tolkien used to spell it, as opposed to elfs).So, just like the ending of the Narnia series, then?

[pilgrim]

So, just like the ending of the Narnia series, then?

Exactly!!!!! Funny, cause I hated the last book of those. Nowadays I can't think of Narnia without going off on a complete tangent though. Why did they have to make the film version of Mr. Tumnus so hot?! I mean, I know he has hoofs and all but all I see is the yummy Mr. McAvoy!

[Donnie B.]

Exactly!!!!! Funny, cause I hated the last book of those. Nowadays I can't think of Narnia without going off on a complete tangent though. Why did they have to make the film version of Mr. Tumnus so hot?! I mean, I know he has hoofs and all but all I see is the yummy Mr. McAvoy!
Mmmm-kay...

*backs away slowly*

:lol:

By the way, I agree that The Last Battle is my least favorite of the Narnia series. I know C.S. was trying to show how great things would be in the next world, but... I wanted the REAL Narnia back!

[pilgrim]

Mmmm-kay...

*backs away slowly*

:lol:

By the way, I agree that The Last Battle is my least favorite of the Narnia series. I know C.S. was trying to show how great things would be in the next world, but... I wanted the REAL Narnia back!

Same here. My favourite has to be The Horse and His Boy, closely followed by The Voyage of the Dawn Trader. You?

[Donnie B.]

Same here. My favourite has to be The Horse and His Boy, closely followed by The Voyage of the Dawn Trader. You?Those are my two favorites, along with The Magician's Nephew. Prince Caspian's pretty good, too -- I loved how the Pevensies returned to Narnia hundreds of years after they left, and had to figure that out.

It's rather curious that the first and last books are my two least favorites.

[pilgrim]

Those are my two favorites, along with The Magician's Nephew. Prince Caspian's pretty good, too -- I loved how the Pevensies returned to Narnia hundreds of years after they left, and had to figure that out.

It's rather curious that the first and last books are my two least favorites.

Technically, Magician's Nephew was the first from storyline point of view but I suppose you meant The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. I did really like Magician's Nephew. Though, I'm not a fan of Prince Caspian. It felt like most of the book was taken up by someone telling the Pevensies what has happened since they were gone as opposed to anything actually happening. Blimey, it's been ages since I read them, though.

[Gillianren]

Technically, Magician's Nephew was the first from storyline point of view but I suppose you meant The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. I did really like Magician's Nephew. Though, I'm not a fan of Prince Caspian. It felt like most of the book was taken up by someone telling the Pevensies what has happened since they were gone as opposed to anything actually happening. Blimey, it's been ages since I read them, though.

After all, he wrote The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe first, you know. That, to my mind, also makes it first story-wise. Magician's Nephew was an afterthought.

[Chuck]

I hope everyone thought to use a little lemon juice on the back of page 759 of Deathly Hallows to make the secret text on page 760 readable. I was really surprised at the identity of the new headmaster.

[pumpkinpie]

I hope everyone thought to use a little lemon juice on the back of page 759 of Deathly Hallows to make the secret text on page 760 readable. I was really surprised at the identity of the new headmaster.

Before I try that, I'd like to find a second source confirming the lemon juice will reveal something! I googled "lemon juice deathly hallows" and the first two pages of hits only game lemon juice as an ingredient in recipes. :lol:

I thought one of the interviews with JK revealed the headmaster, but I have to go back and find the link.

[Chuck]

You posted too soon. Now no one will try it. Oh well, there are other forums.

[Trebuchet]

Besides, you use lemon juice as the invisible ink itself, not to make it visible. To see it, you hold the paper over a candle.

What you really need to do to reveal the secret text is tap the page with your wand and say "I solemnly swear I am up to no good."

[Chuck]

I like that better. I'll start advising people to hold their last page over a candle.

[Donnie B.]

Has anybody found themselves using Potterisms in daily life?

The other day I was driving home from work, and had to handle a semi-tricky traffic situation. I got through cleanly, and then found myself thinking, "Mischief managed!"

That was my first Potter carryover, though I've been known to quote various pertinent lines from Firefly/Serenity from time to time.

[ToSeek]

I believe I've heard "Muggles" used among science fiction fans to refer to those who aren't science fiction fans. "Mundanes" is the usual term, however.

[pumpkinpie]

"Expelliarmus" worked its way into a Doctor Who episode!

[Neverfly]

I believe I've heard "Muggles" used among science fiction fans to refer to those who aren't science fiction fans. "Mundanes" is the usual term, however.

As a fan of Xanth, I prefer mundanes.

[Gillianren]

"Mundane" has been the preferred term (even to those of us who loathe Piers Anthony novels) in SCA and ren faire circles for so long that I doubt we'll be changing to "Muggle" any time soon.

[Neverfly]

I would certainly hope not. Muggles is a ridiculous term at best.
(No comments from the peanut gallery about how ridiculous Xanth is please:p )

[Chuck]

"Muggles" could become a word used by practitioners of any activities when referring to outsiders, such as chess players referring to people who don't know the rules. It might soon become part of the English language.

[Trebuchet]

"Mundane" has been the preferred term (even to those of us who loathe Piers Anthony novels) in SCA and ren faire circles for so long that I doubt we'll be changing to "Muggle" any time soon.

I'm an upper-middle-aged engineer, working at an aerospace company, living in an ordinary house, and wear ordinary clothes. And I build modern versions of medieval siege machines for fun. Am I a mundane?

PS: The SCA folks come to watch us hurl. Just four weeks from now, by the way!

[Gillianren]

"Mundane" is all about the clothes. You'll hear a fair number of us referring to "mundane jobs" instead of "day jobs."

[Trebuchet]

Well, we DID dress up for the event....

[hhEb09'1]

Has anybody found themselves using Potterisms in daily life?"earwax"

[Donnie B.]

"earwax"With or without "Alas!"?

[Chuck]

I'll have to say "Alas, earwax" the next time someone insists that I taste something. I hope they get the reference.

[hhEb09'1]

With or without "Alas!"?Sometimes. Usually "Arggg, earwax" or "Rats, earwax" or something else more contemporary, or adult.

5th Annual Astronomy Challenge (http://www.bautforum.com/astronomy/64198-5th-annual-astronomy-challenge.html), join now.

[Gillianren]

A friend of mine was tutoring as her work study a few years ago--and tutoring the school's athletes, at that. In English. She made some reference to some point of grammar and said, "Everyone knows that." Then paused, realizing who she was talking to, and said, "Everyone who's read Hogwarts, a History, that is."

She was delighted when the person she was tutoring said, "So just you, then."

[Donnie B.]

A friend of mine was tutoring as her work study a few years ago--and tutoring the school's athletes, at that. In English. She made some reference to some point of grammar and said, "Everyone knows that." Then paused, realizing who she was talking to, and said, "Everyone who's read Hogwarts, a History, that is."

She was delighted when the person she was tutoring said, "So just you, then."Good one!

The funny thing about that quote, though, is that Harry did read some of that book; JKR says so in the first book. But I think it was Ron who made the wisecrack.

[captain swoop]

"Muggles" could become a word used by practitioners of any activities when referring to outsiders, such as chess players referring to people who don't know the rules. It might soon become part of the English language.

Like 'grockles' is used to describe 'Day trippers' in some of the tourist resorts in Cornwall and Devon?

[Chuck]

Like 'grockles' is used to describe 'Day trippers' in some of the tourist resorts in Cornwall and Devon?Yes, but more widely known.