Who would you take into your bomb-shelter problem

[DyerWolf]

- When I was a kid growing up in LA, I remember that the teacher used to drill us hiding under the desk in the event of a nuclear war. We also learned that we shouldn't look at the bright light when the Rooskies decided to drop a megaton warhead on the TRW building up the road.

Among the fun stuff we did was a sort of group decision making game wherein we had to "decide who to take into our bomb-shelter." We were given a list of 100 people and told we could only take 30. The people who went into the bomb shelter were guaranteed to live throught the war and would form the basis of a new human population. The people had a mix of good qualities and bad. Typical people were (if I remember correctly):

A very fertile young woman addicted to heroine,
A very strong man with Downs Syndrome,
A female doctor past the age of menopause,
The captain of the football team, a natural leader who is also gay,
An infertile army colonel,
A construction worker convicted of spousal abuse,
A husband and wife and their five children,
etc.

Does anyone else remember this "test" and if so, anything about it?

[Fazor]

Haven't you ever watched the twilight zone? The correct answer is, you argue about it and beat the shelter door down (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shelter_(The_Twilight_Zone)), so the bunker becomes useless for everyone. Don't forget to fling insults and racial slurs along the way.

...of course, I kinda wonder what the utility of a bomb shelter who's door can be beaten down by a handfull of average men without and special tools, in just under 5 minutes would be in the first place...

[mike alexander]

I think it was this...

Strangelove:

Mr. President, I would not rule out the chance to preserve a nucleus of human specimens. It would be quite easy... heh heh... at the bottom of ah ... some of our deeper mineshafts. The radioactivity would never penetrate a mine some thousands of feet deep. And in a matter of weeks, sufficient improvements in dwelling space could easily be provided.

Muffley:

How long would you have to stay down there?

Strangelove:

Well let's see now ah, cobalt thorium G. aa... nn... Radioactive halflife of uh,... hmm.. I would think that uh... possibly uh... one hundred years.

Muffley:

You mean, people could actually stay down there for a hundred years?

Strangelove:

It would not be difficult mein Fuhrer! Nuclear reactors could, heh... I'm sorry. Mr. President. Nuclear reactors could provide power almost indefinitely. Greenhouses could maintain plantlife. Animals could be bred and slaughtered. A quick survey would have to be made of all the available mine sites in the country. But I would guess... that ah, dwelling space for several hundred thousands of our people could easily be provided.

Muffley:

Well I... I would hate to have to decide.. who stays up and.. who goes down.

Strangelove:

Well, that would not be necessary Mr. President. It could easily be accomplished with a computer. And a computer could be set and programmed to accept factors from youth, health, sexual fertility, intelligence, and a cross section of necessary skills. Of course it would be absolutely vital that our top government and military men be included to foster and impart the required principles of leadership and tradition. Naturally, they would breed prodigiously, eh? There would be much time, and little to do. But ah with the proper breeding techniques and a ratio of say, ten females to each male, I would guess that they could then work their way back to the present gross national product within say, twenty years.

Muffley:

But look here doctor, wouldn't this nucleus of survivors be so grief stricken and anguished that they'd, well, envy the dead and not want to go on living?

Strangelove:

No sir... Also when... when they go down into the mine everyone would still be alive. There would be no shocking memories, and the prevailing emotion will be one of nostalgia for those left behind, combined with a spirit of bold curiosity for the adventure ahead! Ahhhh!

Turgidson:

Doctor, you mentioned the ration of ten women to each man. Now, wouldn't that necessitate the abandonment of the so called monogamous sexual relationship, I mean, as far as men were concerned?

Strangelove:

Regrettably, yes. But it is, you know, a sacrifice required for the future of the human race. I hasten to add that since each man will be required to do prodigious... service along these lines, the women will have to be selected for their sexual characteristics which will have to be of a highly stimulating nature.

DeSadeski:

I must confess, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor.

Strangelove:

Thank you, sir.

[Celestial Mechanic]

I would disqualify any politicians automatically. I would explain to any politician showing up at the shelter door, "Sorry, you failed to prevent this -- no room for you!"

[Maksutov]

Re Strangelove, there should be an emphasis:Strangelove:

Animals could be bred und schlaughtered!Plus I like your variation on Buck's comments, sort of a variation on MREs:Turgidson:

Doctor, you mentioned the ration of ten women to each man.A few families where I grew up had backyard bomb shelters. They made it well-known that among their supplies were firearms for dealing with anyone who would try to break in.

[Ronald Brak]

The fact that the new society begins with a dictator deciding who lives and who dies does not bode well. I wouldn't waste my time deciding who lives and who dies. I'd leave those losers behind and go and enjoy my last few minutes. (I wonder if that fertile heroin addict would want to come with me?)

[Ronald Brak]

...of course, I kinda wonder what the utility of a bomb shelter who's door can be beaten down by a handfull of average men without and special tools, in just under 5 minutes would be in the first place...

Well just before the bombs hit a cheerful recorded voice does come on saying, "I regret to inform you that this fallout shelter was only constructed to make people feel secure and serves no practical purpose what so ever. Suicide pills are available in the second drawer of the third locker on the left."

On the other hand, fallout can't actually knock over a door, so if you were far enough away from the blast then a lousy door could still save you, provided you don't knock it down. And if it does fall down put it back up and break out the duct tape.

[Michael Noonan]

It would be a hard choice. True you are saving 30 in 100 not like killing 70 of the 100 but the numbers pan out the same.

Perhaps you would save those who couldn't hurt you for saving them. I guess its a fairly poor outlook for lawyers, media as well as politicians. If I remember my 'Douglas Adams' correctly an essential person to have is a telephone sanitiser

[Maksutov]

[edit]If I remember my 'Douglas Adams' correctly an essential person to have is a telephone sanitiserOr the person who remembered the towels.

[Ronald Brak]

Why not just pick the smallest people? Then you can cram more people in and save the most lives. (If the limitation is supplies rather than space, it still applies.) Also, small people are more resistant to radiation which survivors might get exposed to. Of course a fat person could argue that they will need less supplies as they are carrying their own under their skin.

[Van Rijn]

...of course, I kinda wonder what the utility of a bomb shelter who's door can be beaten down by a handfull of average men without and special tools, in just under 5 minutes would be in the first place...

Remember, the key concern was fallout, which would have a wide footprint and could be lethal for weeks. Unless you had a lot of money to spend on the thing, you just had to hope to be far away enough to avoid most of the blast and firestorms. Somewhere I have a government pamphlet from the '60s on building a basement fallout shelter, and it had no door at all. The key thing you want for a fallout shelter is mass, and radiation doesn't go around corners easily. So, you built a shelter at one end of the basement, but added concrete blocks above (well supported!), concrete around, and a right angled narrow entrance way. As long as the basement didn't fill with radioactive dust, that would work for its intended purpose. There was a small section on fancier designs that weren't "do it yourself" and they might have doors, or hatches, but they weren't all that massive.

Two other things about the pamphlet: It was somber, illustrated people were grim - there wasn't any false cheer, as in some goofy nonsense. There also was a design for a shelter lamp system that used a regular flashlight bulb, but with batteries in parallel. It was supposed to be able to provide light for several weeks. I tried it once, and was shocked just how dim and red it was, something they didn't mention in the pamphlet, but obvious in hindsight. I could just imagine being in a shelter for several weeks, knowing that civilization had ended, your only light a very dim, red bulb *brrrrr*.

[Fazor]

Yeah, I just thought the image of a handfull of guys (4 or so) being able to quickly compromise the shelter was funny.

[mike alexander]

I still have some of those old pamphlets. One can see where Terry Southern got his ideas.

"Time, but no plan"
"A plan, but no time"
etc.

I remember the father building a makeshift shelter using cinder blocks and his basement workbench, or everyone shoveling dirt on the lean-to next to the house. I wouldn't be surprised if Dad had a pipe in his mouth; I do recall that his pants never seemed to lose their crease, and no one looked dirty. Heck, no one looked mussed up.

Actually, no one looked all that concerned. Really creepy.

[BobK]

Why would I want to divide my food/water supply by thirty?

[Ronald Brak]

Well at least I guess that's better than letting people into the fallout shelter to increase your food supply.

[Fazor]

But from what I hear, Sloppy Jimbos and Uterbrautten (http://www.snpp.com/episodes/2F03.html)are fairly tastey.

[farmerjumperdon]

This threads reminds me of the movie with Christopher Walken. I think it was Flashback? I really enjoyed that - very funny. I especially liked the very end where he still thinks something is up, and immediately starts pacing off in his backyard, measuring for a new shelter.

[Fazor]

The one with Brenden Fraizer? I've never watched it, just seen bits and pieces but my g/f likes it.

[Gemini]

All I need all I need are my books, and my glasses now that that there's time.

[Fazor]

Nice, two Twilight references in the same thread! (I love that show, if you can't tell).

[Maksutov]

This threads reminds me of the movie with Christopher Walken. I think it was Flashback? I really enjoyed that - very funny. I especially liked the very end where he still thinks something is up, and immediately starts pacing off in his backyard, measuring for a new shelter.Blast from the Past (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0124298/).

[mugaliens]

Sure, and I'd take all of the ones you mentioned. Diversity is good, and reproduction isn't the only vital human quality....

[mugaliens]

However, given that a viable population is somewhere around 30 to 90, I'd probably opt for as manu viable females, ten viable males, the female doctor, and a handyman.

"Renaissance men" (and women) survive low population numbers and hardships like these. Most specialists do not.

[mike alexander]

Looking back at this I realized that the Strangelovian scenario is probably the most insanely accurate. Anyone who thinks they can 'rebuild civilization' from scratch with a hundred people is an idiot. Humans as a species might well survive (a 100-person bottleneck might not be fatal since the human genome is so highly variable) but the idea they could do anything more than survive and, um, reproduce is an adolescent pipe dream.

[Maksutov]

Looking back at this I realized that the Strangelovian scenario is probably the most insanely accurate. Anyone who thinks they can 'rebuild civilization' from scratch with a hundred people is an idiot. Humans as a species might well survive (a 100-person bottleneck might not be fatal since the human genome is so highly variable) but the idea they could do anything more than survive and, um, reproduce is an adolescent pipe dream.Could that be why it was so appealing ot General Turgidson?

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/566/iconwink6tn.gif

[mike alexander]

"Mein Fuhrer! I can walk!"