BSG Season 4 rumor mill....

[publius]

WARNING: Spoilers may follow. Or disinformation put out by Ron D. Or just a load of hogwash from dubious sources. :lol:



We won't learn who the Final Fiver (heck, *the* final cylon) is for a long time -- they're going to drag that out nearly to the end.

Starbuck is the "savior" somehow, and she doesn't really know what she is. She's been to earth somehow, whether corporeal or not, they don't know.

Col. Tgh (remember, he lost the 'i' ) is pretty much in denial (which they say Hogan can play well because he doesn't want his character to be a Cylon. They said he was floored by it). However, he develops an interesting relationship with CapSix (and with Head Baltar playing it, too), trying to learn all he can about what it means to be a Cylon, and what a Final Fiver is from her as much as he can. Remember that last scene with her and Tigh? They say more of that rocking and rolling is to come.

The other Seven become divided. They don't know much about who are what the Final Five are either -- it's the stuff of legend and rumor, with different opinions. They learn about the Dylon Four, and become divided over what to do. They break down along gender lines, the boys vs. girls and have a little civil war, with one side getting boxed.

During that, it turns out that the Centurians are actually capable of sensient thought, but that ability is supressed by the humanoids to maintain control. During that fight, that ability gets turned on, and the Centurians take sides.

Whichever side prevails ultimately unboxes Xena because she knows things they need to know.

Now, as to the nature of the Final Five. It's going to be the ol' "this has all happened before, and it will happen again" thing. Apparently "Human vs Cylon" has been an eternal theme, playing out over and over again, with different actors playing different roles in the same play, etc etc. The Final Five are somehow part of the last incarnation of "Cylon", which might go back to Kobol. They are somehow the gods to the cylons in the same way the Lords of Kobol are to the humans.

And finally, Baltar. Remember a little cult, *of women* had sprung up around him. Well, he gets into full wacked-out cult leader mode (with HeadSix playing that, of course), and has a harem of all his devoted female followers. Don't you just hate him? :lol: If you thought that little Menage-a-Psychosis with Xena and CapSix was something, you ain't seen nothing yet.

*****Big time spoiler, if true: DOUBLE WARNING************




Cally blows her brains out when she learns the Chief is a Cylon.

Whether any of this is true, I don't know, but that's the current rumor mill.

-Richard

[publius]

WARNING, don't read read this if you don't want to know, and again this is just the rumor mill, it may true or it may be crap.

-----------------------------------------------------



Apparently, the colonials are going to get to digging into the ancient texts about the 13th colony and Earth, trying to find out more information, and probably with all sorts of Roslin visions and other stuff.

They discover the name of the 13th tribe. You know, the 12 all have Zodiac-like names, and so the 13th should have a name as well. Well, they discover that name is [play the Jaws or Halloween music] ...............

.................................................. ............................

.................................................. .............................

.................................................. ............................

the name is .................................................. .........


................................. it's .................................................. .......

.................................................. ..............................................

.................................................. .................................. pronounced


"CYLON"! [SHRIEK!]

All of this has happnened before and it will happen again. Play around with that and you may get some ideas on where this is going........and how come the Dylon Four were "activated" when they get to the particular point in space.

-Richard

[CodeSlinger]

Where is all this coming from, some undisclosed internet source or your own fertile imagination? :)

[publius]

Where is all this coming from, some undisclosed internet source or your own fertile imagination? :)

Actually, a disclosed internet source mostly and various bulletin boards that discuss BSG. The best spoiler site that I know of is one called the "Patriot Resource" site, which compiles all the various spoiler claims. It was dead accurate with the Season 3 finale, spilling the beans about the Dylan Four and all that.

http://www.patriotresource.com/bg/insights/spoilers/season4.html

Ron Moore gets pretty ticked off when this stuff leaks, and there's been several occasions where he's called up the operators of various boards and asked them to pull info. The Television Without Pity board did that for some of the Season 3 finale spoiler. Someone who got one of those advance copy DVDs spilled the beans there.

So one indicator they use to determine if a spoiler is good is if gets removed from a board. :)

-Richard

[Certassar]

I've got this theory that, like "kobol" actually refers to the programming language COBOL, the word "cylon" has been misspelled consistently throughout the show. It's actually "Ceylon", the old name for the Republic of Sri Lanka. Now, an anagram for "Republic of Sri Lanka" is "Facial Bulk Prisoner", which pretty much proves my point: Tom Zarek is the true Apollo.

Q.E.D.

[publius]

More possible spoilers...................................



Tricia Helfer says CapricaSix is going to fall in love with someone other than Baltar, but ain't saying who. That ought to be good. Some are guessing (Bl)Anders or the Chief, but I'm gonna bet it's old One Eye, Col. Tgh. :)


Second, she says another Six named "Natalie" is coming on the scene and will play a big role. So, we can wonder about that.

Starbuck gets locked up for the first few episodes -- they assume she's a cylon (which will be funny with One Eye and the rest of the Dylan Four running around). There's a hint there may be a scene where Rosling threatens to do her thing and airlock Starbuck, which ought to be good.

ETA: And this next spoiler is just too good. Don't read it. I ought to be shot for spilling it, but I can't help it:

During the "Razor" movie, where we learn more about the Pegasus and Adm. Caine, we're going to find out just why Caine despised Gina so much and had her gang raped. It goes way beyond merely being a Cylon.

DON'T READ THIS:

You see, it turns out Caine and Gina were lovers......................Gina's betrayal really got to her for that reason. Yep, BSG is going to have some obligatory girl-girl stuff, but don't worry (or get excited :) ), they're apparently not going to show smooching, just let us know they were lovers.


-Richard

[Certassar]

I've read that rumour about Caine/Gina too. However, I just can't believe it. But we'll see. Your spoiler info for the end of season 3 turned out to be quite accurate.

Hmmm, when I think of it, it might actually be in character for #6 to at least attempt such a seduction. A #6 seduced Baltar on Caprica and a #6 (Shelley Godfrey) tried (and failed) to seduce Cmd. Adama. Seduction might be the actual role of the sixes. Maybe each cylon model were designed for a specific role in the cylon scheme for world domination? E.g.:

Sixes: Seduction and manipulation.
Sharon: Infiltration.
Leoben: Anthropologist.
Simon: Physycian.
Doral: Politics?
Xena: Military intelligence?
Cavil: Spiritual/philosophical advisor?

I dunno.

[publius]

Not spoliers, but some scheduling crap:

SciFi is considering just showing the first 10 episodes in 2008, the waiting all the way to 2009 to show the last 10! If they do that, I'm going to go postal, I think.

-Richard

[Certassar]

2009??! That's absurd. Maybe they are having trouble keeping the cast from doing a lot of acting elsewhere. I understand that is why Billy was cut from the series (killed), as his contractual obligations elsewhere kept interfering with the BSG filming schedules. And after 3-4 years of running from the cylons one can't blame an actor for preparing for a post-BSG life and carreer.

But 2009? That really sucks. I hope it's not Razor that ruined their schedule.

[publius]

As I understand it, they're going to shoot the entire season right now. I'm not sure where they are exactly now, but they're going to do all 20, then it's over. It's just SciFi is thinking about holding the last half another year to drag it out.

-Richard

[Certassar]

I just got Season 3 on DVD, and again I'm wondering why they didn't include the commentary tracks. Could it be something as silly as political correctness issues because of Ron D. Moore's smoking and drinking during the commentary? (If so, couldn't they at least have included the commentary in the region 2 versions? ;-) )

[Extravoice]

SciFi is considering just showing the first 10 episodes in 2008, the waiting all the way to 2009 to show the last 10! If they do that, I'm going to go postal, I think.

When are they going to start showing the next season on SciFi? I thought it was this fall (2007), but it sounds like you are saying they won't even start until sometime in 2008. What's that, something like a full year between new episodes?

[Certassar]

@Extravoice: They fill the gap with the spin-off movie, Razor, about Battlestar Pegasus and Admiral Caine. It's to be launched 24 November '07.

[Van Rijn]

Not spoliers, but some scheduling crap:

SciFi is considering just showing the first 10 episodes in 2008, the waiting all the way to 2009 to show the last 10! If they do that, I'm going to go postal, I think.

-Richard

Ouch. Part of the reason I didn't find this last season as interesting was simply because it had been so long since I had seen it previously. That wasn't the only reason, of course, but it's hard to maintain interest in an intense series when that intensity has faded in your mind.

[publius]

When are they going to start showing the next season on SciFi? I thought it was this fall (2007), but it sounds like you are saying they won't even start until sometime in 2008. What's that, something like a full year between new episodes?

Jan. 2008 is when S4 is supposed to start. "Razor", the two-hour Pegasus (plus other backstory) movie will air Nov. 27, 2007.

What the swine are thinking of doing is dragging it out, and just showing the first 10 episodes, then waiting 'til Jan. 2009 to show the final 10. Sci-Fi ordered 20 episodes, and they're going to produce all 20 in a run. They've already shot a bunch, but I'm not sure exactly where they are.

One of the criticisms was 20 episodes was too many, and so quality suffered. Ron D. wanted to be sure where he stood so he could end the story properly. Some suggested maybe they should go with two more 13 episode seasons rather than just one more 20 episode one. But they went with the one 20 episode.

If the pull this 10-10 split thing, then they'll be effectively trying to do two more seasons for the price of one.

-Richard

[publius]

Ouch. Part of the reason I didn't find this last season as interesting was simply because it had been so long since I had seen it previously. That wasn't the only reason, of course, but it's hard to maintain interest in an intense series when that intensity has faded in your mind.

What I do is watch several of the previous episodes right before the new one starts so I can get ramped up again.

Heck, the TV Without Pity BSG section is doing a "Great Re-Watch" thing right now, starting out from the very beginning. Every week, they "officially" re-watch an episode and (re-)discuss it.

-Richard

[Launch window]

Ouch. Part of the reason I didn't find this last season as interesting was simply because it had been so long since I had seen it previously. That wasn't the only reason, of course, but it's hard to maintain interest in an intense series when that intensity has faded in your mind.

I almost stopped watching the series and I'm still not sure if I'll be bothered to tune in again. The series just got to soapy and dull for me, I also feel some of the sub-plots were bad, they had unnecessary political commentary plots were just added for shock value such as the mommy in space arc, rape of prisoners, battlestar baghdad, starbucks ovaries, and killing off characters for no reason. In places violence was being used for the sake of showing violence and personally I watch scifi to be entertained by a storyline about a future society. I don't watch scifi to see how depraved and backward to human race can be and I am not entertained by seeing people stab each other in the back or sell out their own mothers. Maybe the series will make a U-turn and get back on the road, maybe Cylons do have a plan, but the show has changed for the worse ever since producers David Eick left to do his own Bionic Woman stuff and producer Moore went off to do another remake of The-Thing

[Van Rijn]

What I do is watch several of the previous episodes right before the new one starts so I can get ramped up again.

Heck, the TV Without Pity BSG section is doing a "Great Re-Watch" thing right now, starting out from the very beginning. Every week, they "officially" re-watch an episode and (re-)discuss it.

-Richard

There was just no way I was going to rewatch those episodes. There might be one or two, maybe, but several? Nah. I didn't have nearly that level of interest or dedication.

[Van Rijn]

I almost stopped watching the series and I'm still not sure if I'll be bothered to tune in again. The series just got to soapy and dull for me, I also feel some of the sub-plots were bad, they had unnecessary political commentary plots were just added for shock value such as the mommy in space arc, rape of prisoners, battlestar baghdad, starbucks ovaries, and killing off characters for no reason.


Yes, I found myself almost falling asleep during some episodes, and I don't care for the obvious political stuff either. On the other hand, I understand how hard it can be to keep an intense show going. And, it's pretty obvious this wasn't supposed to be a happy show.


In places violence was being used for the sake of showing violence and personally I watch scifi to be entertained by a storyline about a future society. I don't watch scifi to see how depraved and backward to human race can be and I am not entertained by seeing people stab each other in the back or sell out their own mothers. Maybe the series will make a U-turn and get back on the road, maybe Cylons do have a plan, but the show has changed for the worse ever since producers David Eick left to do his own Bionic Woman stuff and producer Moore went off to do another remake of The-Thing

I thought it started out well. I liked the story with the remnant of imperfect humans fleeing the genocidal Cylons. I'm not so impressed with soap opera either.

[publius]

Another interesting possible plot development follow. As always, this may or may not be true, and don't read if you don't want to be spoiled.





There's going to be a shake up of the head characters. Baltar somehow looses Head Six, but gains Head Baltar. That is, the Head Baltar in Cap Six's head moves to real Baltar's head. :lol: It wasn't said if Head Six would move into Cap Six's head.

That ought to be different. That means James Callis is going to have play against himself. That takes talent to pull off well. I think he can do it, but we'll see. And I think Tricia could pull it off too.

-RIchard

[CodeSlinger]

Those "head" characters are one of the many things I can't begin to properly hypothesize about. Are they inner constructs of the host characters, or are they avatars of outside entities? If the latter, will we ever meet the entities that controlled these head characters?

[vonmazur]

When they let accountants run things other than accounting firms, this is the result.....Whatever happened to "Ars gratia Artis"??? What is it now?? "Ars gratia Pecuniae"....

Dale

[publius]

The usual spoiler warnings and caveats..........







While "Razor" will be about the Pegasus and give us some backstory about the first Cylon war, it will apparently drop a bombshell at the end as big as shocking as the Boomer reveal at the end of the miniseries. Someone purported to be in the know is quoted as saying it will be:

"probably the best BSG ending since Boomer walked onto Ragnar Station with the other Cylons at the end of the miniseries." All I'll say is it involves someone uttering the following words: "*a*a ****c* **** **ad t*e ****n **** ** i** **d. *** is the ****** ** *** ***c*l****, the ********* ** *****. **** must *** ****** ***."

He gave us a little Wheel of Fortune style puzzle. Someone with a lot more patience than me found the following fits:

"Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the bearer(mother/source) of the apocalypse, the destroyer of Earth. They must not follow her."

This also fits, if spoken by a Cylon:

"Kara Thrace will lead the cylon race to its end. She is the mother (bearer) of our apocalypse, the protector of Earth. They must not follow her."

And something else might work as well. :)

..............

And I'm seeing more stuff that the Final Five, including the Dylan Four that we know are essentially "gods". They are immortal with great power, they just don't know (and probably because they chose to not know and play their respective roles as the characters we know). They are to Cylon what the Lords of Kobol are to human. If the part about the name of thirteenth tribe is "Cylon" is accurate, then I suspect that the Final Five are the "the five who serve the one whose name cannot be spoken".

There are spoilers hints that the fleet will be divided again into two factions (as apparently the Cylons themselves will be). I suspect the Dylan Four will be in one group, and Starbuck leading the other. That is we'll have Dylan Four vs Starbuck, and the question will be which is good and which is evil, which path leads to salvation, which to destruction. Haven't heard that, mind you, just guessing.

-Richard

[publius]

For those who haven't seen it anywhere, here an S4 promo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VysVxz2_rQg

And, relevant to everything above, Ron D. Moore has confirmed he's been putting out disinformation, fake spoilers to throw everyone off track. :lol:

-Richard

[SeanF]

And, relevant to everything above, Ron D. Moore has confirmed he's been putting out disinformation, fake spoilers to throw everyone off track. :lol:
Maybe he's lying when he says he's been putting out disinformation. After all, when somebody admits to being a liar, can you believe them when they say they're lying? ;)

I had never watched the new BG, but a friend loaned me the first season DVDs and I'm about half way through them. Darn good show - I wish I had been watching it from the beginning.

I don't understand what the hoopla was about Tricia Helfer, though - Grace Park is a far more attractive woman. Heck, Mary McDonnel is more attractive than Helfer...

[CodeSlinger]

Agreed; I'm a much bigger fan of the actress that plays Kelly than Tricia Heifer.

[SeanF]

Agreed; I'm a much bigger fan of the actress that plays Kelly than Tricia Heifer.
She's the assistant to the hangar deck chief, right? Agreed.

And we can probably add Starbuck and Duella (the communications officer) and push Helfer right out of the top five.





Really, though, the women are not the only reason I'm watching the show.... :whistle:

[publius]

I like them all. :) The reason many are so enamored with Tricia Helfer is everyone assumed she was just eye-candy, being a Canadian supermodel, and had no real talent otherwise. But she impressed them. And I will say she does pretty good myself, although the eye-candy aspects may influence my judgement. She does well with the Many Faces of Six. She gives each one a different personality.

Mary McDonnell is indeed pleasing to the eye. According to some of the spoiler hints, she and PopAdama may have another falling out. However, if at the end of this, Ron D. doesn't let those two get together, I'm gonna explode. He teases us with that all the time, and has Adama act oblivious. Several times I've screamed at the TV, "Idiot! She's practically begging, you're wide open!"

-Richard

[CodeSlinger]

She's the assistant to the hangar deck chief, right? Agreed.

And we can probably add Starbuck and Duella (the communications officer) and push Helfer right out of the top five.

I was about to type that Kelly and Duella are much more than just Chief's assistant and comm officer now, but then I remembered you saying that you're still watching the 1st season. I will keep my mouth shut and let you enjoy the plot twists. Just please be careful where your eyes wander in this thread :)

The reason many are so enamored with Tricia Helfer is everyone assumed she was just eye-candy, being a Canadian supermodel, and had no real talent otherwise. But she impressed them. And I will say she does pretty good myself, although the eye-candy aspects may influence my judgment. She does well with the Many Faces of Six. She gives each one a different personality.

I hadn't thought of this, but it's very true.

[WHarris]

Agreed; I'm a much bigger fan of the actress that plays Kelly than Tricia Heifer.

I think you mean Cally.

[CodeSlinger]

Yes, Cally, thank you :)

[vonmazur]

Besides the "Lords of Cobol", what about Cally/Kali?? Kali is the wife of Lord Siva, and the Godess who dances on the heads of the vast herd of unconscious mankind....

Dale in Ala

[Extravoice]

Slightly OT: Does anyone know when the Pegasus miniseries, or movie, or whatever it is, will be shown on the SciFi channel in the US?

[SeanF]

Slightly OT: Does anyone know when the Pegasus miniseries, or movie, or whatever it is, will be shown on the SciFi channel in the US?
November 24, according to IMDB (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0991178/).

[publius]

Yes, it's Cally. And since Sean may not have seen anything past S1, there's a lot that happened. And may happen (see above, or maybe not unless it's some of Ron D's lies, or maybe not not if he's lying about lying...........)

But there is a Kelley character, a Capt. Kelley who is a minor character. I forget what the position would be on an aircraft carrier, "deck boss" or something, but apparently he's the guy in charge of the landing deck when all the vipers come in. When Adama was shot, he also seemed to bump up to XO under OneEye. But everything shifted around with all that happened, and I don't know what he is now.

ETA:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Kelly

It's Kelly, not Kelley, and he's the Landing Signal Officer. Or was.

-Richard

[SeanF]

And since Sean may not have seen anything past S1, there's a lot that happened.
I just want to clarify that I don't expect or want anybody to be worried about spilling spoilers for me. I realize that I'm three years behind the curve, and the onus is on me to not read anything I don't want spoiled.

I already know about some things that are "going to happen," so I'm not real worried about keeping things secret, anyway.

:)

[publius]

WARNING BIG TIME (once again). Advanced copies of "Razor" have apparently been given out and watched, and stuff is leaking out (in violation of non disclosure agreements, I'm sure). There are two big things in the last 20 minutes that set the stage for S4. One confirms something above and the second puts it in context. I'm gonna past this at it appeared on a board but try to "white out" this text, but be warned. And also, this could be Ron D. lies. :lol:


"SPOILER ONE: The film briefly centers around a faction of Cylons whose purpose is to protect 'The Guardian,' it’s why we have the original Toasters back. The Cylon story really serves as a backdrop to everything else that goes on and doesn’t rear its head until the last 20 minutes. But pay careful attention to it, because in the upcoming season this is going to become a major subplot as the Cylons will face an internal war between the old guard and the new ones."

"SPOILER TWO: At the end of the movie the Cylon 'God Guy' says 'That the crew must not follow Kara Thrace, she is the harbinger of the Apocalypse for the Human Race.' He also keeps repeating 'All this has happened before and will happen again, again, again….' BOOM!"

Now, this is interesting. Kara may not be the "saviour" but the destroyer. Maybe it's not "God" guiding her, but his Adversary. Some talk that the Dylan Four were activated (learned who they really were) in order to fight Kara. Or the Dylan Four could actually be 'bad' (but not bad in the sense of being part of the other 7 Cylons, they may be agents of the "adversary") and Kara really "good". Just don't know. And knowing Ron D. neither might be really good or bad, just gray. :lol:

-Richard

[publius]

And this ought to be fun. The "old style Cylons" pay homage to the original series. They faithfully recreate them, down to the scanning red eye thing and the sound effect as it scans, "bzzzzzZZZMMMmm.....bzzzzZZZMM" and the robotic voice. That should be fun.

-Richard

[publius]

Well, the Razor spoilers were pretty much on track. The wording of the "Kara Thrace is the end of the human race" line spoken by the old geezer hybrid was slightly different, but the content was the same.

And the old geezer part, that this original hybrid ages, was something unexpected for me. I suspect that fact will be important as S4 plays out.

And the original centurians, faithfully recreated down to "By your command" was a hoot.


Now, we've got to wait 'til "frackin'" *March* for S4 to start. The writer's strike has something to do with that, I think.

-Richard

[Davidlpf]

.



Now, we've got to wait 'til "frackin'" *March* for S4 to start. The writer's strike has something to do with that, I think.

-Richard
There is another BSG fan at work, who probably be upset about this.

[banquo's_bumble_puppy]

I only watched the first half...one thing that caught my eye was during the flash back scene where Adama was on the planet and he found the lab....was the woman in the room Starbuck? Sure looked like her....how did she manage to travel back in time?

[publius]

Here we go. I'm reposting this here where I intended it to be, and edited out the other one.


I only watched the first half...one thing that caught my eye was during the flash back scene where Adama was on the planet and he found the lab....was the woman in the room Starbuck? Sure looked like her....how did she manage to travel back in time?
No, that wasn't Starbuck. I didn't notice that, and will have to rewatch it. Whether it was supposed to look like her for some reason only to be revealed later or not, well..................

Stock Spoiler Warning for S4 -- read no further if you don't want to be spoiled.

.................


.................

.................

Not really a spoiler, only speculation. Somebody in the loop, one of the cast or writers, let something slip about "hybrid Starbuck". I forget how it went, but it could mean Starbuck is a hybrid, or not. And to complicate things, there are two cylon "hybrids". One is the human looking things that live in the big vat of goo with cables and hoses hooked to them and control the basestars and mutter nonsense (or deep insight) all the time. Our old geezer in Razor was apparently the first of these.

The other type is the human-cylon offspring of which we now have two. Sort of. One is Sharon and Helo's baby, and the other is Chief and Cally's. But the latter is a Final Five-human hybrid, and that could be different.


So Starbuck may be a hybrid. From further S4 spoiler info, only a few hours time passed for her, while months passed for the Galactica and fleet. She doesn't understand all the fuss about her return at first.

During those few hours, she apparently took a little walk with Head Leoben on Earth (some are calling Head Leoben "Not Really Leoben", because that's what Starbuck said when he appeared, "You're not really, Leoben, are you". "I never said I was", was his reply). Anyway, they're very suspicious she's a cylon and lock her up in the brig.

Then there's something about a scene sometime around episode 4 or so where Starbuck breaks out and has a gun to Roslin's head.

And there were spoilers, mentioned above, that CapSix was going to fall in love with someone else, other than Baltar. That is apparently going to be (Bl)Anders. I was suspecting it might be ol' One Eye and thought that would be pretty fun, but it's apparently going to be Blanders.

He and Starbuck having a falling out after her return. He and the rest of the Dylan Four are just as curious and suspicious of what she is as the rest. Apparently the Dylan Four begin to run their own little operation, sort of pulling strings from behind the scenes. They are apparently far more than they realize, or maybe, have let themselves realize.


-Richard

[Jason]

Sounds like a lot of speculation at this point.
My own speculation is that there is a third party involved. This would be whoever is behind the Six in Baltar's head, the Baltar in Caprica Six's head, and psuedo-Loeben. This third party must have either a very high technological level or psionic ability in order to play their head games (and to save Starbuck). As for their goal, they may be trying merge the two races.
I don't think any of the Adama's or Starbuck are Cylons, though I could be wrong (I didn't think Tigh was a Cylon either, since he had a long history with Adama).

[publius]

Very strange, if not somewhat inappropriate S4 promo shot:

http://www.aarondouglasfans.com/Articles/Images/EntertainmentWeekly_January2008.jpg

This has the cast posing in a "Last Supper" style shot. Ron D. says it has deep meaning. :) Note who is the Christ figure. And note how far PopAdama and Roslin are. One is missing, and that's the Final Fifth.

-Richard

[SeanF]

One is missing, and that's the Final Fifth.
More than one is missing. :) For a start, neither Gaeta nor Dualla are there...and neither is Cally, for that matter.

Doc Cottle? :)

[publius]

Sorry, what I meant by one is missing is that only 12 are there total, 11 "apostles" and the Christ figure. We are missing one apostle and that is (presumably) the Final Fifth.

We are (presumably, again) to assume that the 11 characters here rate "apostle" status, and the missing one is the twelveth. Who is Judas? Is it the Chief holding the knife, whiney boy Lee, or someone else? Heck it could even be the Final Fifth.

What I'm not clear on (and not supposed to be, I'm sure) is just which Six that is as the Christ figure. Is it CapSix or HeadSix? The red dress usually means HeadSix, but she's not corporeal, so I'd tend to go with CapSix. The message there is pretty clear, this is the Last Supper, and she looks like she will somehow sacrifice herself for the souls of humanity (or whatever that humanity will ultimately be).

And you'll note Tricia Helfer is there to the left as another Six pointing a finger. That is "Natalie", a new Six that will be introduce (and with Tricia's real hair) and will play a big role in S4. Note that Natalie is an apostle. Humans and cylons, the latter including both final fiver and the other seven are represented as apostles of whatever the new order will be.

-Richard

[publius]

I looked up the apostle order in the real Last Supper to see which BSG slots corresponded to which.

Whiney Boy Lee is indeed sitting in the Judas position. The missing Final Fiver slot is Simon Peter! Will this be the one who denies her three times in her ordeal, somehow, but goes on to be the first "pope" in some fashion?

Baltar is in the John position (or Mary Magdalene if you believe the DaVinci code stuff :lol:, and that actually makes sense here), most enraptured with her.

And this is the killer. Starbuck, with her eyes closed (while Anders clings and pines), occupies the Doubting Thomas position!

I have to dig around to learn any special significance of the others. PopAdama at the last is the "Simon the Zealot" position. Roslin is in the Bartholomew spot. Sharon is the Matthew chair. Anders is James(major) and Natalie-Six is James-minor, if that means anything at all.

-Richard

[publius]

Another strong hint in that symbolism is that Baltar, occupying the St. John seat at the right hand, is going to be redeemed. And Lee as Judas has to be significant as well.

Adama and Roslin so far apart is significant as well if which seat they occupy is not. Note it is Helo and Sharon close to him sort of looking wary. And One Eye and Natalie are close to Roslin looking at the other side.Does each of the far sides of the divine Six represent some deep division in the ranks of the apostles?

The Chief holding that knife is striking as well. Is that a "To be or not to be?" moment, or is he contemplating killing another.

But overall the symbolism is clear. S4 will be a "Passion" that leads to salvation.

ETA: you wouldn't believe how much detail fanboys and gals are going ove "Last Supper" shot with. They're even doing DaVinci code style flipping and superimposing over itself in various ways (and it wouldn't surprise me if Ron D. did go to the trouble to set up such a game). When you do that in the right way, the Chief's knife is right over Baltar's head, with Lee's thumb pointing right at Baltar's neck. :lol:

Look at the real Last Supper and you'll see there can be ambiguity over whether Lee is Peter or Judas, meaning the Final Fifth could be either as well. Some see symmetry games and say Six is not really occupying the Christ position. While the lights are above her head clearly playing the role of a halo, and she's striking a sacrificial pose, Christ was sitting down in the real painting.

And Tigh's position is Andrew. Andrew was the one who first recognized Jesus as the Messiah. Is his blind eye telling us something? Who was the last person he saw before that eye was ripped out? Do we know?

Helo's position is Thaddeus, now the saint of lost causes. :) The Chief is Phillip, crucified upside down while still proclaiming the gospel.

-Richard

[publius]

Here's a blog with all the Photoshopping that can be done:

http://altitudeandwine.livejournal.com/209602.html

You'll see Anders kissing Six's arm. Roslin and Adama rather than far apart, now close together, touching.

They are certain that the original shot itself was Photoshoped together itself, indicating that RDM was indeed playing games big time putting this together.

ETA: Oh, yeah. I'm certain now Ron D. did this on purpose. The above flipping was done according the DaVinci conspiracy rules. Anders kissing Six is one of the possible spoilers and that is clear. Also the one with Roslin and PopAdama is just too good. Her had is right in his lap with the fire burning between them!

-Richard

[publius]

Here's more of the same:

http://altitudeandwine.livejournal.com/210408.html

There is a clearly a child crawling on the floor, dead center, with the Six's hands framing it clearly. The author thinks its supposed to be a centurian's face, but, in the wide shot right at the top, I clearly see a child crawling on all fours.

Now, the cast has poo-poo'd all this Da Vinci mirroring stuff, saying they were all there and did a normal photo shoot, with nothing funny going on.

-Richard

[publius]

Here is the extended version of the first hybrid's prophecy that appears on the "Razor" DVD. Oh, and once again, SPOILER WARNING, although if you've read this far, you're so far into spoiler land there's no looking back:


At last they've come for me. I feel their lives, their destinies spilling out before me. The denial of the one true path, played out on a world not their own, will end soon enough. Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening. Struggling with the knowledge of their true selves. The pain of revelation bringing new clarity. And in the midst of confusion he will find her, enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. The way forward, at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many. And then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning.


-Richard

[Jim]

They are certain that the original shot itself was Photoshoped together ...

Unless Tricia Helfer has found a way to be in two places at once, some sort of Photoshopping is a given.

[SeanF]

Doc Cottle? :)
You know, I threw this out there almost as a joke, but upon reflection, I'm going to go with it. My official prediction for the final Final Fiver is Doc Cottle. :)

[Jason]

Nah. Cottle is cool and all, but he's not that important.
The empty cup is near Lee. If that means the final Cylon is also close to Lee then it's Dee.

[Jason]

Tom Zarek would be another interesting final Cylon, and he's not in the photo.

[publius]

RDM has said (or has been reported as saying, I should say) that the Final Fifth character has been there from the beginning. It's possible that could be metaphorical word game, but if literal, it means a character who has been there since the first season.

I'm sort of leaning toward Zarek now, myself. There's just something about the hybrid prophecy that sounds like him. But I wouldn't bet too much on it, though.

One idea is it can't be anyone who was on the Galactica during the Dylan Four's awakening, as he/she should've be triggered as well. I'm not certain that follows. It may have just been the appointed time and place for those four to awaken, but not the fifth. RDM said to think of it as that particular location in space was what triggered them. They were getting close to something.

-Richard

[publius]

Oh and another semi-spoiler.


.....................................



......................................


Kate Vernon, the actress that played Ellen Tigh, was seen back filming for some later episodes. I'm not exactly certain how far they've got before the writer's strike kicked in. I think they at least got to episode 11 or so, the mid season cliffhanger.

Mrs. OneEye has been around since the first season herself. But only problem is she's dead. Now, if you believe the spoilers above I posted a few moons ago, the Final Five are sort of immortal (sort of Lord-of-Kobolish perhaps) .......... or something. That would allow that.

However, she could come back as a head character, likely in Tigh's head. That's what I'd bet on, actually. Or it could be as simple as flashback sequences, as well.

-Richard

[publius]

Oh and another thing. The apostle James(minor) was supposed to be a brother of Jesus (I've forgotten what I knew of most of that stuff, now). And Natalie-Six is occupying that position, which goes along with her being a "clone" of the Head/Caprica Six in the Christ position.

That's more indication they were carefully following the original, and which apostle a charcter matches with is significant.

-Richard

[galacsi]

Yes i Know this an other subject but i Think Kara Thrace did eject from her Viper .

The reason why ? When i have been looking back at the viper explosion i did see a something round been thrown away from the main Firework.Direction about 4H30 . It is very fast , you can see it only one tenth or a second , but if you freeze the picture , you will get a very nice Soyouz like capsule being ejected !!

Sorry not to post you the picture because it is a 3 Mo bit map. and i was not successfull at clipping it.

If somebody want the 3 Mo picture i can mail it to you

Galacsi.

[publius]

More spoiled have I just become about what happens up to the mid-season cliffhanger. Well, this is mixture of informed speculation based on spoilers. WARNING. This is some juicy, wild stuff. Don't read any further if you don't want to know. Me, I really hate myself, but I just a spoiler whore.

........................................



.......................................




.......................................


From the previews for next week's Ep. 5, we know Kara and the Crap Ship hook up with some Cylons, a Leoben in particular. Her actions lead to mutiny of the rest of the crew.

Natalie is not dead, and apparently she had the other surviving Cylon rebels come in and pull Kara's chestnuts out of the fire. There are scenes with both Starbuck and Athena on a basestar, presumably Natalie's rebel base star.

So we've got two Cylon factions. Six's, Eight's and Leoben's on the rebel side, and Cavil's, Doral's (Leisure Suit Larry), and Simon's on the other.

Natalie is the rebel leader. She proposes an alliance with the colonial fleet to help her destroy the Cavil faction, and that includes a plan to destroy their ressurection hub (Cavil tried to kill her, so she's going to kill him). And she also wants to find out about the Final Five, which she knows are in the fleet, of course. :)

This proposal causes a split in the fleet, but Roslin decides to go along with Natalie. At some point, CapSix is released from her cell, and gets her freedom, and apparently goes on some missions as well as continuing her sessions with TighClops.

And then, a *third* Cylon faction develops, at odds with the other two. Remember the old hybrid from Razor with his band of old model Centurians? Well, he's back.

He manages to kidnap Roslin for some purpose which stirs up the pot big time, and this is before the Colonial-Rebel alliance has launched the attack on the Cavil faction. Roslin's kidnapping causes a power struggle and possible split of the fleet itself. Cylons in two, humans in two.

This all leads to the mid season cliffhanger, in which Roslin apparently dies in captivity (or is thought to be dead). What appears to be Earth is also found (by a vanguard led by Starbuck with Leoben with her). It's a post apocalyptic earth -- they(we) destroyed ourselves by nuclear war.

And then it gets good. Kara learns of the hybrid's prophecy that she is the doom of the human race, then *FINDS HER OWN DEAD BODY* in a crashed ship on this "earth". They say the scene is very reminiscent of the "Count Iblis" scene with the crashed ship from the original series "Ship of Lights" episode. Kara changes the dog tags and burns the body to cover it up.

So, we can guess that "Not Leoben" is indeed on the evil side.

My guess is that is "Not Really Earth" either. :) And that will be the mid season ending.

-Richard

[vonmazur]

Richard: Didn't they have a "similar to earth" apocolyptic episode in the original series?? It has been years and I am not up on the episodes....but I vaguely remember some kind of nuk-a-ler confrontation which was stopped by the fleet in the episodes just before they showed up in the San Fernando Valley...

Dale

[Jason]

Apollo and Starbuck worked for the "angels" to save a planet called Terra from a nuclear war with the Eastern Alliance in the episode Experiment in Terra. John (Edward Mulhare, later Devon Miles on Knight Rider), one of the "angels" tells Apollo that Terra is not Earth but that they are headed in the right direction.

[vonmazur]

Thanks, That was it...

Dale

[publius]

I can only barely recall that episode from the original series now that you mention it. Now, that "Galactica 1980" was so bad I don't want to recall it. We'll just pretend it never happened.

I just got back home from CA -- and boy am I wiped out, and that's why it took me so long to reply here. The jet lag going back east where it's 3 hours later than my internal clock thinks is a killer. :)


-Richard

[Jason]

It wasn't one of the greatest episodes of the original BSG.

[vonmazur]

IIRC: It was filmed at night time, at some corporate HQ building in Sou Cal..

Dale

[publius]

Continuing with this theme of "unlikely alliances" (unholy, I'd say), spoiled speculation is that Roslin has to enlist Baltar's help. Roslin decides to accept the alliance with the rebel Cylons (what PopAdama's initial stance on this will be, I don't know) but much of the fleet is strongly against it and she risks a split. So apparently she has to get Baltar's help in selling the alliance via his "sermons". Ain't that a hoot?

Natalie cooks up a plan to completely destroy the Cavil faction's resurrection facilities and she needs the fleet's help to do it. The idea is that if the Cavil bunch can no longer resurrect, but will "really die" if they get killed, they'll back off.

So apparently they get started working together on that. But Roslin gets herself kidnapped by a third Cylon faction, led by "The Hybrid" (it's assumed that's the old hybrid and his merry band of antique, version 1.0 centurians from Razor, who somehow survived (or resurrected) the explosion in Razor).

All hell breaks loose then, and I think there's a big split of the fleet itself.

Anyway, that sets things up for the midseason cliffhanger, where Roslin is thought to die in captivity, Starbuck and Leoben find what they think is earth, etc.

They've said this midseason break could serve as an ending for the whole series, but it would be a very dark and bleak finale indeed. :)

-Richard

[publius]

Scratch a little of that. Latest is that they do destroy the Ressurection hub (episode entitled "The Hub" of course) before the Hybrid kidnaps Roslin.

And the following is just too good -- I'm gonna attempt to white this out: :lol:



Baltar confesses his original role in the destruction of the colonies to Roslin.

The priestess Elosha returns somehow, probably in Roslin's head, and shows Roslin visions of her own death, coming soon. Roslin soon tells PopAdama she loves him! But they don't kiss, at lest onscreen. Then she gets kidnapped.

-Richard

[publius]

Edward James Olmos said this in a recent interview (Boston Globe) about Kara's death and return:


Well, we've filmed something that started to explain it. And it's not an uplifting understanding. [Laughs.] I will say that. It's as dark as everything else. You sit there and you go, "Oh my God, you guys are sick!" They're pushing the envelope. And the network is allowing it.


We can only ponder. And Ron Moore has said Kara's pristine Viper will come up again as well.

-Richard

[i only ponder]

I don't know if it's been mentioned but:
http://www.spacewesterns.com/articles/60/
I'm sure the last supper arrangements aren't a coincidence. What do you suppose they mean?

[publius]

I don't know if it's been mentioned but:
http://www.spacewesterns.com/articles/60/
I'm sure the last supper arrangements aren't a coincidence. What do you suppose they mean?

We discussed that upthread starting at post #44:

http://www.bautforum.com/small-media-large/63280-bsg-season-4-rumor-mill-2.html#post1161610

Some played some "DaVinci Code" games with that photo and found some interesting things. I forget how it goes, but you take a mirror image and merge it with the original -- anyway, they did that with this BSG image and saw some things. I hope the links I posted to that are still up.

There is some ambiguity in which BSG character corresponds to which apostle, and who is really the Christ figure. Is it HeadSix(or Caprica) or is it Starbuck. If it's CapOrHeadSix, the Baltar is in the St. John role.

And Lee could be in the Judas position. And then there's more.

-Richard


-Richard

[publius]

Hmmmphh. I'm wondering about the kidnapping spoilers. Was this hybrid's plug n' play jump last episode ("Guess What's Coming to Dinner") the kidnapping of Roslin? If so, that's playing out differently than the spoiler/speculation above, which had the kidnapping done by the old hybrid from Razor and his band of version 1.0 centurians.

I'm just not sure, but I'm going to bet this is not the "real" kidnapping, and that will occur later.

There are some promo pictures of the episode after next (not the one two weeks from now, :mad:, but the one after that mind you), entitled "The Hub" showing Roslin and Athena on Natalie's basestar. There is also a picture of (a) Cavil pointing a gun at somebody.

I'm going to bet the "real" kidnapping comes about as some Joker in the deck during the adventure with the Hub. That would be the standard MO of the show to have this supposed third cylon faction come out of nowhere and throw a monkey wrench in everything. But I'm not sure at all, mind you.

I'm also hopeful Natalie isn't dead (Eights can't shoot straight). First of all, it just hit me that Natalie hasn't been officially named yet. The name Natalie has been out there for a while-- and Ron D. & co let it out themselves as part of the promotion from S4 -- yet I don't think she's been named on the show, yet. So I'm figuring she lives to get her official name.

This could play out several ways. Cottle could save her via heroic measures. And that could explain how he finds out CapSix is pregnant (if that is indeed the case). They need CapSix for a blood transfusion or something else to save Natalie, since, as clones, they'd be so close genetically. And in the process, Cottle discovers the pregnancy. That would make sense.

Or we know that PopAdama apparently goes nuts and jumps off after Roslin leaving the fleet behind. Maybe that jump brings them in range of a resurrection ship and Natalie is able to "download" at the last second. Of course, she would come back to life under the tender mercies of Cavil, who controls all the resurrection facilities apparently. That would make for a good story line.

-Richard

[publius]

WARNING: This is the spoiler thread (should be obvious, but if you just read the last post after the bump, you might miss it........). Read no further if you don't want to know.

.................................................. ......................................







.................................................. ......................................



.................................................. ..........................................



According to the latest from the Patriot Resource site (TPR), Junior, Whiney Boy Lee, becomes Acting President in Roslin's absence.

Now, if this is so, you'd think it should be Zarek, but I don't know why and how they give it to Whiney Boy. Actually, I think Zarek would prefer it anyway. He doesn't have the guts to be in charge, to have the buck stop with him. He just wants to be at best #2 who complains and works against #1.

Now scheduling: the midseaon cliffhanger will be on June 13th. It seems like it just started, but we've only got three more episodes. And it's going to be dark and gloomy. And it may be frakkin' 2009 before the second half airs. Apparently they're going to do 10 "webisodes" in the interim sometime similiar to what they did with "The Resistance" between S2 and S3.

They're going to unbox Xena sometime in the next three episodes, but apparently she has her own little agenda and it doesn't work out like they're hoping. She doesn't want to play ball with them and may tell them sweet little lies.

-Richard

[publius]

A few more little spoilers for "Sine Qua Non" from TPR. Again, WARNING, don't read if you don't want to be spoiled.


.................................................. .............






.................................................. .............




.................................................. .............



Romo Lampkin returns. There's a big division in the fleet over Roslin's abduction and the alliance with the rebels. Apparently there's all sorts of legal wrangling and Lampkin's talents are needed by someone. And again, apparently Whiney Boy gets installed as Acting President over Zarek.

From the previews, we see T_gh punching PopAdama, and there's a little more on that. As we suspected, Adama learns T_gh has been getting very friendly with CapSix and confronts T_gh about it, with that full bore Adama Glare (Pop is going to be doing that withering glare at a lot of the kids this episode -- "Dad" isn't in the best of moods with "Mom" gone). He's asks T_gh if it's true, and T_gh just sort of looks sheepish. He then wonders who's really been interrogating whom. T_gh, especially sensitive what with his secret Cylonitude, says "How dare you question my loyalty!" and punches PopAdama.

Now, question is if CapSix is pregnant, or if Doc Cottle just found out some other way (T_gh and Cappy were getting pretty rough.....). Maybe CapSix caught something from T_gh (who caught it from Ellen, of course). :lol: I just don't know. CapSix with T_gh's bun in the oven would be a wild plot twist indeed, but some just don't think it's going to happen.

And Natalie is indeed still alive, with Doc Cottle trying desperately to save her. Whether she'll pull through this episode or if she'll just be hanging by a thread, I don't know.

And there's another scene from the previews with T_gh and CapSix in the brig where he grabs her by the throat. Apparently, he seens her as Ellen again in that scene. Whether that is before or after the confrontation with PopAdama, I don't know.

TPR also says that Roslin is going to be totally transformed by her experience. She apparently sees Elosha again as a head character. Does she learn "the truth of the Opera House"?

And speaking of Adama Glare, there's a scene where he's sending Starbuck -- Starbutt someone called her. Anyway, Starbutt says you're asking my people to go on a suicide mission, and Adama responds, "I'm not asking." Yep, he doesn't take Mom's peril too well.

Remember that scene when he went down to Kobol after her? He said they went down separately but they're coming out together -- either on foot or in body bags, but they're coming out together.

-Richard

[i only ponder]

I'm thinking the final cylon is Cally, if you look the drawing three made, there are definately two female, and the middle one looks suspiciously like Cally:
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2479/final5gx4.jpg

[Certassar]

But... Cally is dead. I saw her die. I don't think (hope) RDM will make her magically reappear. He did it once with Starbuck as a cliffhanger. Doing it a second time would be weird and stupid, IMHO. Nope. Cally is dead.

(Still voting for Zarek, BTW)

[ToSeek]

But... Cally is dead.

Not if she's a Cylon within range of a resurrection ship....

[jamesabrown]

Not if she's a Cylon within range of a resurrection ship....

But then Nickie is a child of two Cylons, something we've been told is impossible. I think it's too late to the end of the story to be opening up that can of worms.

Still, the look on Tyrol's face when Callie comes walking through a door would be priceless. As well as the look on Tory's face.

EDIT: Okay, so if Tigh got that Six pregnant, then all bets are off. Perhaps it will be Callie.

[publius]

Here's some more playing with the "Last Supper" photo:

http://www.spacewesterns.com/articles/60/

Rather than just flipping and overlaying ala The DaVinci Code, this guy added a Mad Magazine "Fold In" style thing. I couldn't follow exactly what he did, but he used the water glasses as fold-in points. The water level in one glass was different from the other and he took that as a clue of how much a percentage of one part to merge with the other somehow (I'm not clear on what he means by this).

Anyway doing that puts Starbutt and Whiney Boy together, and Starbutt directly in front of the "grail". It also brings out Tyrol holding the knife at Baltar, as was produced as mentioned above. The guy concluded that Kara is the Final Fifth Cylon.

I don't buy that for a minute.

And then here's a long argument that Dualla is the final one:

http://www.cellounge.com/2008/04/27/the-final-cylon-will-be-revealed-now/

He was wrong about the gas giant with rings being Jupiter or Saturn and we learned recently. But there are some interesting spoilers from the forthcoming "Caprica" series (which explains how the Cylons were originally created).

And finally, there are cast interviews I've been reading about. Olmos has again said the ending is going to be dark, and that it will leave them with almost nothing. Aaron Douglass (plays Tyrol) said the script for the final two episodes left him in tears, it was so awful for them.

The main cast all now know who the final Cylon is as shooting for it has been done apparently. Douglass said all the internet speculation is way off the mark and we won't believe who it is. Lucy Lawless appeared on Letterman recently (I didn't know and missed it), and apparently Letterman's writers are BSG fans and they were talking to her about it. She said yeah they learned who the final cylon was but she couldn't remember. :)

-Richard

[Drunk Vegan]

But then Nickie is a child of two Cylons, something we've been told is impossible. I think it's too late to the end of the story to be opening up that can of worms.

In the most recent episode, we discover that Tigh (one of the final five) has impregnated the Six in the brig.

So this implies one of two things:

1. The Cylons * can * breed without a human partner.
2. The writers have been misleading everyone and the "four" are not actually Cylons at all.

I've suspected this based on a recurring theme in the show, the "God is in the music" theme, as explained by Baltar and confirmed by HeadBaltar.

My theory is that the music which drew Tigh, Tory, Anders, and Tyrol together was actually the work of a supernatural power for some as-yet unknown purpose. The same spiritual force represented by HeadSix, HeadBaltar, and the visions experienced by Roslyn and others. The song that they hear, "All Along The Watchtower" is steeped in Biblical references, in particular the apocalypse:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_along_the_watchtower

By accounting for the spiritual force that plays a part in so many of the events in Galactica you can also explain how Starbuck can be a human but still come back from the dead. She was either saved by that force, or is one of its agents herself.

[paotzosu]

Hi everyone. I'm new here. I noticed Ponder's picture post and it seems that the one on the far left (our left) looks more like Anders than a woman. The one at the center looks more like Tory. If that's the case, that leaves the 2nd one from the left as the final Cylon. Only one guy sports that hair-do... Romo Lampkin. :shifty:

[galacsi]

And then here's a long argument that Dualla is the final one:

http://www.cellounge.com/2008/04/27/the-final-cylon-will-be-revealed-now/

He was wrong about the gas giant with rings being Jupiter or Saturn and we learned recently. But there are some interesting spoilers from the forthcoming "Caprica" series (which explains how the Cylons were originally created).


Well , this theory has merits but i cannot understand that Lee Adama or his father did not recognize that Dualla is a clone of Zoe Graystone. Or the ADN of Dualla has been tinkered or she is a mixture of Zoe and Adama 's Daughter and then nobody can think about that possibility.

[publius]

In the most recent episode, we discover that Tigh (one of the final five) has impregnated the Six in the brig.

So this implies one of two things:

1. The Cylons * can * breed without a human partner.
2. The writers have been misleading everyone and the "four" are not actually Cylons at all.
.................

The same spiritual force represented by HeadSix, HeadBaltar, and the visions experienced by Roslyn and others.

..................
By accounting for the spiritual force that plays a part in so many of the events in Galactica you can also explain how Starbuck can be a human but still come back from the dead. She was either saved by that force, or is one of its agents herself.

RDM has said the Final Five are fundamentally different from the other seven "skinjobs", and to me that's how T_gh can impregnate CapSix, and Tyrol can impregnate Cally.

And I agree about the supernatural power that's been guiding things. HeadSix and HeadBaltar are agents ("angels") of that power. Starbutt has her own HeadLeoben (or NotReallyLeoben) as well. But if there's a good supernatural power, there has to be an evil one as well, "The Adversary". One side leads to salvation and the other to damnation. I believe HeadSix and HeadBaltar are on one side and NotReallyLeoben are on the other. The question is which ones are which. :)

If we take the original Hybrid from Razor literally, that Kara Thrace is the harbinger of death who will lead the human race to its end, then NotLeoben is the on the dark side. But all that could be some crazy metaphor that's really good somehow, who knows.

The main theme throughout this show has been, "All this has happened before, and it will happen again." History is play that is put on again and again, with the various actors playing different roles in each iteration (one time you're the jailer and the next you're the prisoner, etc, etc).

That's the key to it all, whatever it may be. I think the Final Five are somehow links to the previous iteration of "Human vs. Cylon". From spoilers, they learn the name of the 13th tribe was "Cylon". :) The Jumping Hybrid from the rebel basestar mentioned the "the Three will lead you to the Five who came from Earth".

Another spoiler is that Tyrol at least and perhaps the other three start remembering "past lives" from the previous iteration. And finally, Starbutt (with NotLeoben around) finds her own dead body in some wreckage on a planet (perhaps what they think is Earth) in a scene very similiar to the one from the original series' "Ship of Lights" episode where they discover the truth about Count Iblis.

But I believe there will be a choice, a false path to damnation and the right path to salvation. There may be a false earth, IOW.

-Richard

[phunk]

RDM has said the Final Five are fundamentally different from the other seven "skinjobs", and to me that's how T_gh can impregnate CapSix, and Tyrol can impregnate Cally.


It seems that the whole "cylons can't reproduce" thing is just infertility in the men of the first seven. The women have no problem, and neither do the final five.

Maybe when they made the seven, they made the men infertile to stop them from creating new models through interbreeding?

[Drunk Vegan]

It seems that the whole "cylons can't reproduce" thing is just infertility in the men of the first seven. The women have no problem, and neither do the final five.

Maybe when they made the seven, they made the men infertile to stop them from creating new models through interbreeding?

Not true. So far we have:

Male Tyrol (Cylon) + Cally (Human) = Hybrid Nicholas Tyrol
Female Athena (Cylon) + Cpt. Agathon (Human) = Hybrid Hera Agathon

So it's clear that both male and female Cylons can reproduce, but * only * if they partner with a human.

The exception is Tigh and Six, both (AFAIK) Cylons, but have managed to put a bun in Six's oven.

It's possible that you're right though and the Five have no problems reproducing while the Seven are unable to.

[Drunk Vegan]

Something struck me suddenly when I was stargazing today. I thought of the scene in "Home: Part II" where they are standing in the middle of Stonehenge and looking up at the constellations that represent the 12 colonies.

Stated repeatedly throughout the series (after the airing of this episode) is the fact that the final five Cylons have been to Earth.

Well.. I know of five people who've been to Earth.
And they're ideal Cylons, given that:

a) Starbuck has come back from the dead, and has visions of Earth, our solar system, and our nearest stellar neighbor Alpha Centauri. Has experienced projections of a HeadLeoben.

b) Roslyn has visions and is the prophesied guide who will lead the fleet to Earth. In control of the civilian government, conveniently placed in power by the "mathematical absurdity" of everyone above her in the chain of succession being wiped out.

c) Admiral Adama, in control of the military and with strong influence over the refugee fleet. By (coincidence?) is in command of the only battlestar which is immune to the Cylon computer virus which subverts the rest of the military forces.

d) Lee Adama, in a position to directly influence his father. Also necessary for keeping the colonial fleet under their thumb.

e) Billy Keikeya, Roslyn's personal assistant who was in place before the attacks on the colonies, able to influence the President of the Colonies.

This also matches up with the revelation that the Five are indeed a part of the colonial fleet, and the trailer for next week's episode in which Deanna identifies Roslyn as one of the final five.

Also explains the Six pregnancy; it fits the pattern fine, because Tigh is not actually a Cylon.


Starbuck's ressurection makes perfect sense if she's a Cylon, as well as her remarks that she's been to Earth, despite the fact that she has no memory of how to get there. She was on Earth, teleported from Kobol with the others.

It's also said that the Five will lead the way to Earth. Well, of course they will, they're the ones who saw the "map" in the sky above Stonehenge.

[publius]

That's an interesting theory, but I think the Dylan Four are indeed Cylons, it's just the meaning of "Cylon" is more involved than we first thought. I think they have some mystical connection to Earth and whatever happened the Exodus from Kobol.

I've been reading some thing about what they're calling the "backdoor pilot" for Caprica. That will be a two hour show that may or may not lead to a series. When it will air, I don't know, but the pilot is a go for certain.

Anyway there's some things there may explain how the Final Five came to be, at least the physical, if not the mystical component. Apparently, the first Cylons were indeed "skinjobs", or at least attempts at human like AI androids.

"Caprica" has been descibred as the prime-time soap "Dallas" set on Caprica. Those who hate the soap opera subplots of BSG will probably hate it for certain, because Caprica is going to be this big time. :lol: The Caprican Ewings are going to be the Greystone family. Bill Adama's father, Joseph (Grandpopadama, I guess) and his family is in business and friends with the Greystones.

Grandpop has ties with the "Caprican mafia" somehow, which put him through law school. I surmise he will be something like Robert Duvall's character in "The Godfather", raised to be a consigliere. Whether or not the Greystones are mafia themselves, I'm not sure, but they ain't sweetness and light.

"JR" will be Daniel Greystone, a brilliant computer genius. His wife, Amanda, is a brilliant surgeon, and his daughter, Zoe, is also a computer genius. And they run a big powerful corporation (and ethics take a back seat, of course). They are working on AI. Colonial society is at a peak of technological development, well Caprica at least. But there is dissent and a lot of have-nots (some of the other colonies probably) who are oppressed.

Zoe manages to create a digital copy of herself, consciousness in a box. While she's apparently a brilliant computer scientest, she's pretty dumb with men and has a boyfriend who is some sort of religious fanatic who is opposed to the current order. He's also a terrorist. He blows her up along with himself in some attack, and also manages to kill Grandpopadama's wife and daughter (this would be Bill's sister).

In their grief, the Greystones and Grandpop try to create robot/androids in their dead daughters' images. THe copy of Zoe's consciousness is used as the starting point. And thus the Cylons are born.

Grandpop becomes appalled at what they've done and becomes opposed to creating the androids, but the Greystones press on. Grandpop sees the light somehow and renounces his evil ways and becomes the "civil rights activist" as he's been described in BSG.

So apparently the first Cylons were skinjobs, or at least early attempts at them.

-Richard

[phunk]

Not true. So far we have:

Male Tyrol (Cylon) + Cally (Human) = Hybrid Nicholas Tyrol
Female Athena (Cylon) + Cpt. Agathon (Human) = Hybrid Hera Agathon

So it's clear that both male and female Cylons can reproduce, but * only * if they partner with a human.

The exception is Tigh and Six, both (AFAIK) Cylons, but have managed to put a bun in Six's oven.

It's possible that you're right though and the Five have no problems reproducing while the Seven are unable to.

Read my post again. :) T_gh & six are not an exception, they fit my theory. What I said is that the men among the first seven (Cavil, Leoben, Simon, Doral) are the only ones that are infertile, out of all twelve cylon models. The final five don't have this problem, and the females of the first seven don't either (although we haven't seen a pregnant d'anna yet).

[Delvo]

That story reminds me of the idea I came up with that even the "metal" Cylons have had human-derived biological innards all along (inside-out terminators), perhaps because they couldn't build AI without neurons and then the rest of the organism was needed to keep the brain alive and working properly. That would solve the problem of how the skinnies could be derived from them in such a short time and how they could still be called "Cylons" despite being obviously primarily biotechnological rather than mechanical: the developmental timeline and the nomenclature both get simpler if both groups of "Cylons" were based on the same type of combinative, cybernetic technology all along. Is also then follows that there could be a good reason not to count the metal ones (and Raiders) among of the "twelve models": the metal ones can be cloned from any of the twelve skin models, just grown to attach to a different set of mechanical parts. It also explains why, being derived from humans but with some biological modifications, they would seem to have lost the ability to reproduce as humans (as a side effect) and yet would feel that that's something they should be able to do (because they essentially are humans).

But both that and the story you just posted (which are really the same in most ways) contradict the indications we've been given that the history of "Cylons" still far predates the time they were created.

[phunk]

My theory has always been that the skinjobs aren't derived from the toasters at all, but are human clones that were genetically engineered with some cylon "upgrades".

[Delvo]

My theory has always been that the skinjobs aren't derived from the toasters at all, but are human clones that were genetically engineered with some cylon "upgrades".But, since the toasters were invented by the Colonials, that would mean that the skinnies weren't "Cylons" at all. At least this way, if you figure the toasters have human-derived bioguts, like modified soldiers wearing armor, then they can both legitimately be called by the same name because they have a common origin and common nature, instead of one being true Cylons and the other not. (Of course, that still leaves the problem of the ancient-history "Cylons", but at least with the toasters and skinnies being versions of the same cybernetic technology all along, that leaves us with just two incompatible meanings for the name instead of three.) Then the only problem left is that the Cylon Wars of a few decades ago scare the people away from advanced computers, not from cloning or genetics or cybernetics, but that could just be due to misunderstanding of what the technology behind the Cylons (mainly the toasters) really was.

[phunk]

But, since the toasters were invented by the Colonials, that would mean that the skinnies weren't "Cylons" at all.


Well, they would be cylons in the sense that they were designed and grown by the toasters, given cylon brains that were programmable and uploadable, etc. But they are mostly human in the biochemical sense.

The skinjobs pretty much have to have been designed by modifying the existing human genome. There's no other explanation for the fact that they can interbreed with humans (excluding "god did it" explanations).

[Van Rijn]

Pretty early in the series when they started pushing the cyclic time idea I suspected that there would be Cylons from the previous cycle. Perhaps everyone would turn out to be descended from the previous versions. And when they started with the "final five" idea, I suspected these would turn out to be the previous cycle Cylons. They might have been "programmed" at a cellular level to periodically reappear in the population, or they might have been reintroduced by a third party (sufficiently advanced aliens/gods/whatever). The "final five" could even be a way of forcing the historic cycle - because they existed, they might have had the programming to recreate other Cylons when Colonial technology again advanced sufficiently. Anyway, it will be interesting to see if any of that turns out to be close to the mark.

[publius]

A sneak peek of "The Hub" is up on Hulu:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/21773/battlestar-galactica-battlestar-galactica-ep-the-hub#s-p1-st-i1

Just to be on the safe side, I'm putting it here.

Roslin has her vision of Elosha, who shows Roslin her death. Apparently, Roslin can only connect with Elosha during a jump. No --maybe the Hybrid can only make the connection for her during the jump. This may be why the Hyrbid jumped. The dying leader came to see her, so she jumps to start showing Rosling "the truth of the Opera House".

Yeah, IIRC, way back they established something about the jumps being when the Hybrids get their visions and spiritual insights. Makes sense -- during the FTL jumps would be when they're "transcending space and time". And the jump seems to be an rapturous, oddly orgasmic experience for the Hybrids.

-Richard

[publius]

Here's a preview from somewhere different from the one Sci-Fi ran Friday:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lhBOGoMzn0Q

PopAdama looks like he's having a breakdown worse than the one in Sine Qua Non. What does Laura tell him, "you've got to blow this ship up"? I'd guess she's talking about the rebel basestar. I think the rebels are going to hold her hostage until the Final Five reveal themselves.

And from the other previews, it looks like the Dyan Four are outed -- heck Tory says "I'm going back with my people", doesn't she.

And it looks like the business about her kidnapping by the old Hybrid and the version 1.0 gang from Razor was wrong. It's this bunch of rebels and this (female) hybrid that hold her hostage, I think.

Yep, I'm dreading this.

-Richard

[publius]

I've beenr reading some stuff that tries to make sense of the rapid fire previews. Heck, they may be freeze framing it to glean as much detail as possible.

Apparently, the Dylan Four are outed. Now, Tory decides to go with "her people" and tells Roslin to kiss her rear end, apparently. T_gh tells Bill he's a cylon.

Then there's a scene where Tyrol, T_gh and (Bl)Anders are "drawn together" around Starbutt's pristine Vipe. "Something's changed" says Tyrol. Then Starbutt is seen running "Stop, those three cylons just gave us earth!" Tyrol, T_gh, and Anders are in the airlock and Whiney Boy was about to push the button!

Whatever happens, Lee is still acting president and was going to follow in Roslin's footsteps. That must be in the Colonial Constitution about the president: And he shall take care that the enemies of the Twelve Colonies are faithfully airlocked.

Then there's a scene with Roslin and Lucylon walking on a planet, which we presume is earth, or what they think is.


-Richard

[publius]

This week's sneak peek is up at Hulu:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/22456/battlestar-galactica-battlestar-galactica-ep-revelations#s-p1-st-i1

It looks like Lucylon (I think I like that better than "Xena", now -- sorry Jason) is now the rebel leader. She acts fast. They hold Madame Airlock and the rest of the Galactica crew hostage for the Final Five.

Lucylon says she's been in communication with four of them, so that's presumably the Dyan Four. Note the furtive glances she gives T_gh and Tory (that was one complaint on the TWOP boards; they're getting sick of the furtive glances and double meanings with the Dylan Four).

Now, guessing what happens based on this and the other previews, Roslin may tell Adama to blow up the basestar -- with her and the others on it -- once the Final Five go over, so as not to compromise Earth to the cylons.


-Richard

[publius]

I was reading some more interesting possible spoilers/speculation about the original hybrid from Razor. It ties in with the "Caprica" plot.

That original hybrid was Daniel Greystone himself, the creator of the Cylons (or at least the instance of them in this particular cycle, however that will play out). So apparently, he tried to make himself one of his own machines, perhaps as a way to achieve immortality. From the Caprica plot info, he creates the Cylons as a way to bring his dead daughter back as I mentioned above.

This may tie in with who is the final fifth somehow. I'm warming up to the Dee theory, actually, that she's tied in with the Graystones and Adamas. Way back in S1 or whenever, (a) Leoben told Roslin that "Adama is a Cylon" (that may have been just his head games, but there's always sort of some twisted truth in what he says) right before she airlocked him if you remember. Well, Dee married Lee, so she's an Adama now. :)


-Richard

[publius]

I hate myself. I manage to thoroughly spoil myself. Sci-Fi gave a special invitation-only screening of Friday's episode somewhere, and details are leaking out over the internet. RDM made everyone there raise their right hand and swear not to spill the beans according to what I read, but a lot of good that did. :lol:

I honestly couldn't help myself. I didn't want to read it, but I couldn't stop myself. And I'm not going to say a word because you'd all hate me too if I spilled it.

All I will say, and this was shown in the previews, is that the Dylan Four are outed, and when Bill learns T_gh is a Cylon, he goes nuts. I mean he breaks down and is useless. His previous behavior when he loses Roslin is nothing compared to this.

And absolutely no hint of who the final fifth is, but some interesting hints. Lucylon says that only four "are in the fleet". And this will be something we get to speculate on until Janurary (or later!). Not to mention what happens at the end.


-Richard

[Drunk Vegan]

Only four are in the fleet because the fifth, Billy, is dead (or at least "died" and went to ressurection ship).

Adama, Roslyn, Lee, and Starbuck are the other four. ;)

Ok, me and my crazy conspiracy theories. I'll shut up.

[publius]

There is a renewed Roslin is the Fifth bandwagon based on that comment (she's not with the fleet because she's on their basestar), and that RDM was just flat out lying when he said the final one wasn't in the Last Supper photo.

Oh, and after this, I'll never call Lee "Whiney Boy" again. Adama's neutronium "stones" are lost, and get passed to President Lee. He's got the old man's blood in him, for sure.

-Richard

[Delvo]

Maybe the last one got killed when almost the entire human species did. It would be pretty silly to think that, with so few survivors, absolutely all kinds of Cylon just happened to be among them.

[SeanF]

And absolutely no hint of who the final fifth is, but some interesting hints.
You speak in riddles.

[Drunk Vegan]

Maybe the last one got killed when almost the entire human species did. It would be pretty silly to think that, with so few survivors, absolutely all kinds of Cylon just happened to be among them.

Not really, even if the Five don't know they're Cylons, they could still have some kind of "subconscious" programming that made them gravitate towards ships that would survive the attacks.

[Certassar]

Could a chrome toaster be the final fifth? That would give some meaning to Lucylon's comment "I'm sorry, I didn't know" (or something like it) when she saw the final five in that supernova temple. Having treated the toasters as slaves all that time would probably make her feel a bit guilty.

Nah. I don't buy it. I'm still clinging to my belief that it's Zarek.

[phunk]

I think her apollogy was to Anders, she tried to kill him once.

[publius]

You speak in riddles.

I was just reading the last part of this thread over in preparation for a new post and realized how I'd worded that. It wasn't intentional, but the product of writing too late and too fast. What I meant was there was no hint of the identity, but some hint as to the location. :lol:


-Richard

[publius]

Now where were we in the shape of things to come. The part about the Old Hybrid and the version 1.0 Cylons was wrong, but I still think there's going to be something about them that ties into things. From the "Caprica" spoilers, it was probably Daniel Greystone, the creator of the Cylons. Also, we learn the first cylons had the consciousness of the daughter of Greystone, Zoe, and the daughter of GrandpopAdama, Tamara, I believe.

At any rate many are speculating that Zoe and/or Tamara may play some part in who is the final fifth, and how and why. Or something.

Now, another spoiler was that Starbutt (I know Jason doesn't like my nicknames, but I can't help it) finds her own dead body in a crashed viper on some planet and covers it up by removing the dog tags and burning it. Well, from the short preview clips we saw last episode we see her around a bonfire, which is probably on Earth(OrNot).

Remember her pristine viper picked up a Colonial emergency signal that was so far away nothing else could. Well, I think that signal is coming from her original viper. So I'm sure she decides to find out the source of the signal, and finds the wreckage of her original viper with her dead body inside, and freaks out. Apparently, a Leoben pops up to guide her when she makes that discovery. It's probably HeadLeoben(or NotReallyLeoben) not the real Leoben, but no one is sure.

Since cylons are the only ones who can (or could) resurrect, she assumes she is the final cylon. Someone who sounds like T_gh is head to say "so you're the fifth" in those previews, so I'm guessing she may confide in him and perhaps the other Dylans. But I don't think she really is. They say that scene is very reminiscent of the Count Iblis scene from the original. She may indeed be a "demon" (in accord with the Old Hybrid's prophecy. Or she could be an angel. I do believe there are two competing "higher powers" at work here.

Speaking of angels, HeadSix returns (presumably to Baltar) in the second episode or third episode of S4.5. Tricia Helfer says HeadSix will completely abandon the sex siren/dominatrix persona and become very angelic. She'll probably be wearing white. Yes, think "Ship of Lights" (with RDM's twist on it). We can assume Baltar is past the need for a sex pot to motivate him and is ready to see HeadSix in her true form :)

And then in those same previews we see Bill grieving over a body wrapped up in a burial shroud. That could be Roslin. She dies right there and they bury her on Earth, her final destination. Some suspected she would then return as a head character to Bill (or others, Lee?).

However, Mary McDonnell let something slip about her being in her bald makeup with the hospital gown and IV bag during recent filming of the next to last episode. So she probably lives, as why would Bill's vision of her be in that state, and not as her vibrant and beautiful self?

There's still the rumor that they discover the name of 13th tribe was "Cylon", and if that happens, it will probably be something they discover on EarthOrNot.

And finally, Tyrol and perhaps rest of the Dylans start having visions/memories of past lives, presumably as part of the 13th on Earth, which may start revealing what happened to EarthOrNot.

-Richard

[vonmazur]

I have the opinion that all of this is reminiscent of P. D. Ouspenky and his "Eternal Recurrance" ideas. Might be that the writers are trying to introduce something other than reincarnation to explain the plot....

Dale in Al

[publius]

And some more stuff from "Caprica" which explains some things.

But before that, let me say I'm an idiot. I'm sitting here with six stitches in the side of my stupid face under my right eye. How did that happen, you wonder? A neighbor borrows a trailer of mine yesterday, and has a flat tire. It's a tandem axle and he didn't realize a tire was flat until he had destroyed said tire.

So this morning, I decide to change that tire. The sidewall was shredded which made things difficult. I broke the beads down, got one side off, and then was going to remove the tire from the rim. I generally do that by standing the tire up and using a pry bar between the rim and bead and then hitting the bead with a hammer, popping the rim off.

Well, I did that, and the entire rim flew out with the first lick of my hammer. I was prying against the rim with nearly all my body weight, and when that rim flew, so did I. I was right next to my pickup with the tailgate down and my face hit the corner of the tailgate, ripping quite a gash.

It's my stupid right knee, actually -- it's stiff and painful and I just can't move it fast enough to react to loosing my balance like that. If that knee was in good operating condition, I wouldn't have fallen. So off to the doc I had to go, blood pouring. When I got through, I looked at myself in the rearview mirror. I actually scared myself, so awful it looked. :lol:

But anyway, Caprica. As we went through above, Daniel Greystone is the creator of the Cylons. His daughter Zoe manages to put a copy of her consciousness in computer form, and then gets herself killed by a religious zealot boyfriend.

I figured the boyfriend would be "Geminon", which seems to be the strongly religious colony in BSG, but it's not. It turns out the boyfriend will part of a *monotheist* cult that has sprung up and was fiercely opposed to the current polytheistic Colonial order. Also he had managed to convert Zoe or least make her sympathetic to his beliefs. And then Zoe, in her experiments, made a digital copy of her boyfriend as well as herself.

So that explains the monotheism and religious zealot side of the Cylons. Nice twist, I think. The first Cylon artificial consciousness were therefore based on monotheistic religous zealots/terrorists. :lol: The mind of Ron D. Moore, indeed.


-Richard

[jrkeller]

Here's the Wikipedia site (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caprica_(TV_series)) about the Caprica show. SPOILER ALERT

[Certassar]

So, could Zoe be the final fifth? I guess it depends on the airing schedule of Caprica and on whether RDM wants to keep BSG a self-contained canon.

[publius]

So, could Zoe be the final fifth? I guess it depends on the airing schedule of Caprica and on whether RDM wants to keep BSG a self-contained canon.

I don't think it's going to be Zoe herself, just some tie-in with the Caprica story line. Oh, before I forget, RDM has said somewhere the final five don't have numbers like the Seven. So that kills all the speculation about what numbers the Dylans and the final are. However, how is he going to explain 1 - 6, 8, with the missing number 7 in between.

Just about everyone was figuring the reveal of the final cylon would probably take place very late in S4.5, but there's some indications from what some of the cast have said that it may happen in the first couple of episodes. So it could be that whoever (sounds like T_gh) says "so you're in the fifth" in the preview could really be the fifth.

I'm not sure, but I read somewhere that the backdoor pilot of "Caprica" may air before the start of S4.5. That would capitalize on the existing audience for BSG, hungering for something, anything, perhaps.

And some more scheduling stuff. There are going to be 10 "webisodes" between now and S4.5. And they've given the go-ahead for production on one movie, with an option to go for two more (if the first does well, they'll OK the second). IIRC, this movie will be set somewhere in the Season 1 timeframe. I just know about this. Once something is over, it's over to me. But I like BSG enough that I might just go for it -- it will depend on just how it all ends, I suppose.

And finally, they've extended the finale to *three hours*. From what I read, they're going all out with the SFX and all that good stuff, and Sci-Fi decided to let RDM have all the time he wanted to go out with a bang.


-Richard

[banquo's_bumble_puppy]

Was the moon visible when the fleet went into orbit? Also, if it is Earth....maybe they landed in Australia....kinda looks like the Sydney opera house....Rosalyn's still alive....they reached "Earth".....


not Earth

[publius]

Here's another piece on "Caprica". They're filming it right now, and it may well air before the final half of BSG:

http://thetvaddict.com/2008/04/23/the-tv-addict-previews-battlestar-galactica-prequel-caprica/

We'll learn more about the Colonies. As was said between the lines in BSG, they were full of racial ("colonist"? :) ) prejudices. Capricans were the elites who looked down on everyone else. While they've never actually said it explicity in BSG, that's what we all figured from various hints.

Anyway, Joseph Adama (GrandpopAdama) was from Tauron, which was looked down upon as hicks from the sticks. "Adama" was an obviously Tauron name, so he changed his named to "Adams" after he moved to Caprica. There is a scene where he tells a young Bill that their name is really "Adama", and to be proud of it.

I've forgotten, was it Tauron that Baltar said he was originally from, and did some funky accent to make the point?

-Richard

[publius]

Was the moon visible when the fleet went into orbit? Also, if it is Earth....maybe they landed in Australia....kinda looks like the Sydney opera house....Rosalyn's still alive....they reached "Earth".....


not Earth

No, they didn't show the moon, and didn't show any continents due to a most convienent cloud cover. :) The only thing was Gaeta saying "Constellations match."

Many think it's ruins of New York, but you're not the first who saw hints of Syndey in those ruins. :)

The moderator of TWOP's BSG forum said an inside source of his assured him that those ruins were not NYC, but wouldn't say any more than that.

Remember at the beginning President Leland was looking at illustrations of the "Temple of Aurora" which was supposed to be on Earth according to the Scrolls of Pythia (or whatever source). So many are speculating that it would be logical they would try to land there, and those ruins are supposed to be of that temple.

There may indeed be the ruins of an "opera house" there, just like the one on Kobol, which may have to do with Roslin/Sharon/CapSix's visions.

-Richard

[Certassar]

I've forgotten, was it Tauron that Baltar said he was originally from, and did some funky accent to make the point?

Nope. Aerelon.

[Trantor]

And finally, they've extended the finale to *three hours*. From what I read, they're going all out with the SFX and all that good stuff, and Sci-Fi decided to let RDM have all the time he wanted to go out with a bang.


-Richard


Is the three hour finale going to be a single episode, or will it be broken up into three seperate one hour episodes?

[banquo's_bumble_puppy]

No, they didn't show the moon, and didn't show any continents due to a most convienent cloud cover. :) The only thing was Gaeta saying "Constellations match."

Many think it's ruins of New York, but you're not the first who saw hints of Syndey in those ruins. :)

The moderator of TWOP's BSG forum said an inside source of his assured him that those ruins were not NYC, but wouldn't say any more than that.

Remember at the beginning President Leland was looking at illustrations of the "Temple of Aurora" which was supposed to be on Earth according to the Scrolls of Pythia (or whatever source). So many are speculating that it would be logical they would try to land there, and those ruins are supposed to be of that temple.

There may indeed be the ruins of an "opera house" there, just like the one on Kobol, which may have to do with Roslin/Sharon/CapSix's visions.

-Richard

this is making me think that maybe the Cylons and the humans repopulate the earth somehow and that they are our ancestors....

[jrkeller]

Here's my theory.

The two half-Cylon/half-Human children are actually Adam and Eve.

[publius]

Is the three hour finale going to be a single episode, or will it be broken up into three seperate one hour episodes?

I don't know. They probably haven't decided and won't until close to airing.

-Richard

[publius]

Yeah, a lot of people are speculating something along the Adam & Eve lines. That's sort of what I'm figuring as well, but I'm certain there's going to be some crazy twist out of left field on the whole thing.

Early on, HeadSix was going on about the human-cylon hybrid child being the "shape of things to come", and then the hybrid(s) (the basestar hybrids in the tub of goo -- two uses of hybrid here) went on about "the children of the one reborn" finding a new land.

-Richard

[publius]

Speaking of out of left field, they put out a casting call for extras in a location shoot for the finale (apparently filmed this week) calling for extras with a clean cut look and athletic build, or slim with long hair. And they must all be comfortable being filmed in bathing suits. If I read it right, they used about 100 of them.

So we can puzzle over just what that scene will be about. "The children of the one reborn"?

-Richard

[publius]

There's a rumor that Sci-Fi has greenlighted a first season of "Caprica", ordereding 13 episodes. The first season of BSG was just 13 episodes, if you recall.

There's also the rumor that they may air the "Caprica" pilot before the second half of BSG, S4.5. That would make some sense. They get the existing BSG fanbase to watch the pilot as they wait for the finale of BSG, and then they run the first season of Caprica after BSG ends.

Maybe they'll explain the layout of the Colonial stellar system there.

-Richard

[publius]

Going out with a bang, and "the dying leader will learn the truth of the opera house". A while back in the discussion thread, Delvo mentioned he was impressed with the musical score for the midseason ending. Well, the latest is that they're doing something very impressive with the music for the big finale.

Bear McCreary, BSG's composer and head music guy, was in Vancouver on the set for the filming of the finale. They said he was supervising and conducting some of the score being played *on camera* and involving the actors themselves. He said they did something that's never been before with a score, whatever it may be.

When I read that, "the truth of the opera house" came to mind.

I'm not any music appreciation expert by a long shot (I know what I like, but that's about it), but those who are really like McCreary. He put on concert of his BSG scores recently, and they had people flying out from the UK and Australia to hear it live.

-Richard

[Certassar]

Oh my god. RDM is going to turn the finale into a musical!!!

[Gemini]

Maybe Bear McCreary is the final Cylon? :P

[publius]

Maybe Bear McCreary is final Cylon? :P

That might not be far from the truth. There is a spoiler that a piano player character named "Slick" will be introduced somewhere around Ep. 17 or so, a few episodes before the finale. Starbutt will "inexplicably drawn" to this character and spill all her dark secrets. RDM is indeed basing "Slick" on Bear, they say.

-Richard

[publius]

Oh my god. RDM is going to turn the finale into a musical!!!

:) No, not a musical, but *opera*, space opera. And as we all know, the space opera ain't over 'til the Airlock Lady sings..................

He's already had Gaeta sing. I want to see T_gh sing, with his eyepatch.
And what would Batcrap Baltar sing? It would be something about "Me, myself, and I".


-Richard

[publius]

Hey, they can do some "Walking in a nuclear wasteland" to the tune of "Winter Wonderland". If I were any good at this (all I can do is dirty lyrics), I come up with something. Roslin and PopAdama could sing it together. There's parody gold in those lyrics, "Later on we'll conspire, as we dream by the fire to face unafraid the plans that we've made, walking in a nuclear wasteland."

[Drunk Vegan]

"What a Wonderful World" woiuld also work brilliantly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf_U_NyxdsY

[publius]

In a recent interview Tricia Helfer said reading the final script was like a punch in the gut -- partly because it was the last episode and partly because of the content. She added that many of the fellow cast broke down tears reading it (Aaron Douglass said he did a while back), and said there was heartwarming stuff and very sad, dark stuff.

But they all say everything will be explained and that it goes back to the very beginning, and that we'll all be re-watching the miniseries and saying "Aha!". Mary McDonnell said that's indeed what she had to do when she read the final scripts.

Now, explaining it is one thing, but understanding it may be another. :)Grace Park said she read the script that explained everything (didn't say which episode it was, finale or otherwise) three times and still didn't understand it and had to get RDM to walk her through it.

Here are some photos from a location shoot for the finale at Simon Fraser University, which they've used for scenes on Caprica. This is another flashback (or something) of Roslin walking to a reflecting pool. Back somewhere exactly when I can't remember, she had a flashback where she remembered seeing Baltar kissing CapSix around there.

So this has probably has something to do with tying it all together back to the beginning:

http://battlestargalactica.meetup.com/16/photos/?photoAlbumId=388964&photoId=4666649#4666644


-Richard

[publius]

Here's some more pictures of that shoot:

http://paulman.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/battlestar-galactica-season-4-filming-at-sfu-or-is-it-caprica/

Note Mary gets into the pond, walks over to the fountain, and then basks in the spray.

-Richard

[ToSeek]

Several posts hinting at illegal activity have been removed. Thanks for the self-reporting.

[AKONI]

I like them all. :) The reason many are so enamored with Tricia Helfer is everyone assumed she was just eye-candy, being a Canadian supermodel, and had no real talent otherwise. But she impressed them. And I will say she does pretty good myself, although the eye-candy aspects may influence my judgement. She does well with the Many Faces of Six. She gives each one a different personality.

Mary McDonnell is indeed pleasing to the eye. According to some of the spoiler hints, she and PopAdama may have another falling out. However, if at the end of this, Ron D. doesn't let those two get together, I'm gonna explode. He teases us with that all the time, and has Adama act oblivious. Several times I've screamed at the TV, "Idiot! She's practically begging, you're wide open!"

-Richard

Mary McDonnell has always been an extremly beautiful woman and she has aged the way most women wish they themselves would age (the same way most men wish they would age like Sean Connery).

I actually found myself developing a slight crush on Ms. McDonnell while watching BSG.



P.S. I read the first page of this thread and then skipped the rest. I will bookmark this to read after the series finale so there's no chance of the ending being ruined for me. I hate spoilers.

I know some people like them, but just think how much of the impact would have been lost if you already knew who was Luke's father.

[publius]

Well, the BSG crew wrapped up filming today for Season 4.5 at 5:30AM (they burned the midnight oil). That's it for BSG. The Fat Lady has sung. Post production with all the toppings, fixin's and edits will take a couple more months, but the main thing is over.


-Richard

[Drunk Vegan]

One thing that's occurred to me is that maybe they really have found Earth, but the people aren't all dead, just moved to a colony world somewhere. In the ruins they'll find something that points them to where the Earthlings have fled.

[galacsi]

But who destroyed Earth ? Earthlings did it to themselves ? Cylons ? An Other unknown power ?

And how long did it occurred ? Not to much may be because the ruins are not completely withered. So may be with a little archeology they will find hints about what happened.
I would like to see Baltar in chief archeologist !! This guy can be fun !

[publius]

The final cylon may be revealed first thing in the next episode (which won't air before Jan 2009, may be even later!). If you remember from the previews they showed at the end of "Revelations", someone who sounded like T_gh said something like "So you're the fifth."

I and others figured that was probably just some tease of misdirection, but it may actually be the real fifth. From some things Aaron Douglass (plays Tyrol) and some others have said, the original plan was to reveal the fifth during the midseason cliffhanger along with the nuclear wasteland Earth. But apparently they changed things around after the writers' strike. At any rate, they said the identity of the final cylon is crucial to the direction our heroes will go in the second half. Another cast member said the identity of the final fifth is "organic and sastifying", whatever the devil that means.

And the actor who plays Helo (I can't ever get his name right, Tahmoh something....) says the ending is "perfect" (whatever the devil that means compared to all the other statements about having everyone in tears, punch in the gut, etc., etc.)

-Richard

[Matherly]

And the actor who plays Helo (I can't ever get his name right, Tahmoh something....) says the ending is "perfect" (whatever the devil that means compared to all the other statements about having everyone in tears, punch in the gut, etc., etc.)

It can be all of those things at the same time.

[publius]

Sci-Fi has put up a trailer for the "Caprica" pilot here:

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=14&id=57977&no_cj_c=1

I wonder if I should a "Caprica Rumor Mill" thread, or should we just keep it all here with BSG? When it does start, we can definitely start a Caprica specific thread, of course.

At any rate, the costumes are going to have a sort of chic-ish '50s look. It's funny. Caprica is set roughly 50 years in the past from the current BSG time. So it's "old", yet still more advanced that we are today. So they're trying to pull something that gives an "old" feel, yet still advanced, and this is part of how they're trying to pull that off.

-Richard

[publius]

Oh and some more little BSG tidbits:

Richard Hatch was on some ComicCon(or whatever they call it) panel with Bear McCreary and was asked if he was the final cylon. He acted sort of flustered and shifty and finally said something like, "What if we're all cylons".

McCreary said he had to write a "Tom Zarek" theme for S4.5.

And some short clips of S4.5 scenes have been shown and I've been reading a little. All of them come from memory of those who saw them, so they may not have it exactly right.

Adama and Roslin are in his quarters making out passionately. Woo-hoo!About time we got to see that, if so.

Adama is blindfolded, looking like he's about to be executed.

Lee is in the brig shouting, "Just kill me!"

Roslin asks Adama "Are you a cylon?"

Starbutt digs up her own dog tags. This appears to be confirmation that she finds her own dead body along with the original viper on EarthOrNot.

And from what just about everybody involved hints at, some of our heroes are going to die in the end, and some will live on.


-Richard


-Richard

[Certassar]

I wonder if I should a "Caprica Rumor Mill" thread, or should we just keep it all here with BSG? When it does start, we can definitely start a Caprica specific thread, of course.

I say keep all the BSG rumours/spoilers here. The BSG4/Caprica rumours will probably converge at some time anyway.

And good news about Tom Zarek! I hate to say it, but: I told you so!! ;-)

[Jim]

And some short clips of S4.5 scenes have been shown ...
Adama and Roslin are in his quarters making out passionately. ...
Adama is blindfolded...
Roslin asks Adama "Are you a cylon?"


Oooo, sounds kinky!

However, if there are any scenes of Adama's bare backside, I want to be blindfolded. (Visions of Sipowicz... shudder!)

[publius]

Oooo, sounds kinky!

Your mind is the gutter.....right next to mine, well what little there is of it.



However, if there are any scenes of Adama's bare backside, I want to be blindfolded. (Visions of Sipowicz... shudder!)

Amen. EJ Olmos' rear end is near the bottom of the list of hindsides I care to see. My own is near the end as well. It's a tossup on which I'd rather see.

Now, Grace Park, Tricia, etc are a different story. Wouldn't mind "Racetrack" either -- yeah, I like to take a lap or two around that track. And then, of course Starbutt. We'd see if it really was star material.

But no T_gh for goodness sake......Ol' One Eye......see I'm in the gutter too.. Hey, Hogan did say there was a chance you'd see him naked along with Tricia.

-Richard

[publius]

Obligatory SPOILER WARNING.... This is the rumor mill thread, but it's been a while since the last bump, so read no further if you don't want to be spoiled.


.................................................. .



..................................................



.................................................. ..


Aaron Douglass, who plays Tyrol, has spilled a few beans about the Final Five. They are originally from Earth, part of the 13th colony as we all were suspecting. After the destruction of Earth, they left to find the other 12 colonies. When they did, they decided to switch off their memories and live as humans to learn more about the repeating cycle of destruction and recreation.

The name of the 13th tribe is indeed going to be "Cylon" as was rumored before. They're going to discover that in the famed scrolls of Pythia. So, the Final Five are "Cylons" in that original sense. However, I'm sure there will be a deeper connection with the old Cylons and the new cybernetic versions.

I'm also going to guess there is something fundamentally different between the 12 "humans" and the 13th "cylons" that went to Earth. Maybe the 13th had discovered immortality. I'm also going to guess the 13th were monotheists.

ETA: Read a little more, which may be more speculation than spoiler, I'm not sure:

Way back on Kobol, according to the all important repeating history theme, the humans created robots to serve as slaves. Those robots rebelled and that started a war which split the Kobolians into 12 factions, with the cylons being the 13th. The original cylons, just like the later ones, wanted to become more human like.

And in becomming more human-like, they destroyed themselves just like the humans tend to do. So our Final Five wanted to learn just what it is that makes humans destroy what they build up, and why they, cylons, want to become more human and end up making the same mess.

Apparently, our own current earth's relationship to all this and its place in the timeline is going to remain a mystery. The finale will involve some sort of grand new beginning and where it will go from there will be the mystery. Are we the result of that? Or not, but something else? That's how it will end, apparently.

-Richard

[publius]

Folks,

This may be a bit too political, or better, it perhaps could provoke a discussion that could get too political, but this is just too funny not to point out here in this thread. It had me laughing out loud when I stumbled across it. Just look at the pictures in the following links and say no more. :)

We may have a T_gh/Roslin ticket:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/starbuck77/2809926256/

http://www.pastemagazine.com/blogs/ctrl-v/2008/08/does-a-mccainpalin-ticket-tighroslin-battlestar-ti.html

And some eye-patch photoshopping:

http://flickr.com/photos/51035547307@N01/2660436174/

And so the $64K question: Is the senator really a cylon?

-Richard

[publius]

Yep, the parallel is complete:

http://www.businesspointers.net/tricia-helfer-cindy-mccain-battlestar-galatica-republican-party/

There's Cindy in a red dress. :lol:

-Richard

[galacsi]

From "Beyoung the red line" http://www.game-warden.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6557

"The four that were revealed at the end of season three," Douglas tells SFX on set in Vancouver, "are what they are, but they're one-offs. They're the original Cylons. Hundreds of thousands of years ago, when there were 13 colonies on Kobol, 12 went that way and one went that way to find Earth - or create an Earth - and that colony was actually Cylons. They're individuals, there's no multiple models. The seven that we know are a different kind of Cylon that came much later. They're probably ten, 20 years old, born out of the metal machines that fought back 40 years ago in the Cylon Wars of the 12 Colonies. So they're essentially like the gods. And we were on the new Earth, and destroyed that and came back to the 12 Colonies to rejoin humanity to find out the cycle of time. Why do we create a world and destroy ourselves? Why does humanity do that? And why do we as Cylons follow that path to humanity? So we sort of turned off the Cylon part of us and went and joined the humans. They don't know we're Cylons and we didn't know until we started getting closer to Earth - what's when we started hearing the music at the end of last season and get woken up to the fact we are."

[Certassar]

Has it been revealed when Caprica and BSG 4.2 will be aired?

[Ara Pacis]

Funny, I was just thinking today how much Palin looks like a younger Mary McDonnell (e.g. Independence Day).

[publius]

Has it been revealed when Caprica and BSG 4.2 will be aired?

BSG 4.5 will probably be on in Jan. 2009. Or maybe later.

The Caprica pilot will probably air some time in November.

-Richard

[clint]

BSG 4.5 will probably be on in Jan. 2009. Or maybe later.

The Caprica pilot will probably air some time in November.

-Richard

Any updates on this?

I just read the new episodes will start on Jan 16,
but I couldn't find anything about Caprica...

[publius]

Any updates on this?

I just read the new episodes will start on Jan 16,
but I couldn't find anything about Caprica...

You're not the only one. I've been trying to find info and it seems no one knows what's going on. The last info was "sometime in Nov.", but air date for the pilot may have been pushed back. No one knows for sure.

ETA: The air date for Caprica was supposed to be announced at the end of Sept. It wasn't. Some sources still say Sky in the UK is going to air it before the end of the year, but I don't know.

Maybe the money has dried up.........



-Richard

[clint]

Seems weird that they let it linger on like this.
(the trailer is still online at SciFi's web site (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/), but no mentioning of launch dates)

If it's money, I hope it's not affecting the new episodes :eek:

[galacsi]

Not exactly a spoiler more like a preview :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdsfpeNURHU&no_cj_c=1

The float is being split and it's becoming nasty !

[Certassar]

Isn't this just a compilation of clips from earlier episodes? Not much new footage, if any at all.

[galacsi]

Isn't this just a compilation of clips from earlier episodes? Not much new footage, if any at all.

The fist part is. Then you have new pictures from the next episodes.

Yes it is much too short !

[galacsi]

The scifi website is releasing some clue before January the 16 ,some new some old : http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/youwillknowthetruth/index.php?pageid=10

[galacsi]

And a little more than a month to guess who is the final last Cylon !!

(Roslin of course , and there is a kind of feud between the seven and the five )

[galacsi]

And two new sneak peeks :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1TbvjlLucE&no_cj_c=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASTmWNHCf_8&feature=related

[publius]

The "webisodes" have started. You can go to the main SCIFI BSG site,

http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/

and it should start it.


-Richard

[clint]

The "webisodes" have started. You can go to the main SCIFI BSG site,

http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/

and it should start it.
-Richard

Here's for the 'regionally challenged' (as myself):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea8RkiZPGI4

(most unfortunately, more and more US-based video sites share the bad habit of blocking any viewers from the rest of our beautiful planet)

[Doodler]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fROCdL3oX0I&feature=related

A link without the podcast commentary.

[galacsi]

Here's for the 'regionally challenged' (as myself):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea8RkiZPGI4

(most unfortunately, more and more US-based video sites share the bad habit of blocking any viewers from the rest of our beautiful planet)

Nice comments , I liked it.

[ToSeek]

Here's for the 'regionally challenged' (as myself):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea8RkiZPGI4

(most unfortunately, more and more US-based video sites share the bad habit of blocking any viewers from the rest of our beautiful planet)

The BBC's done the same thing to me a few times.

[clint]

The BBC's done the same thing to me a few times.

Probably just a legal issue, but very annoying.

[galacsi]

I got a crazy idea : The devastated planet we saw in Revelations is not our Earth , Planet Kobol is our Earth. After all in the Pithy book it is said mankind is originated from Kobol , and in the real world mankind has been born (and still reside) on Earth.

The Earth Planet is just an other colony. the 13th tribe colony.

So I look at the season 2 again where some views of planet Kobol can be seen and could not decide if they show known continents or not. No moon is shown but is not a proof.

What do you think people , is it possible ?

[NickW]

I would say I doubt it. If that were true, then why all the running around, following Starbuck? I really dont have a counter for this, but it just wouldn't seem right to me.

[publius]

I got a crazy idea : The devastated planet we saw in Revelations is not our Earth , Planet Kobol is our Earth. After all in the Pithy book it is said mankind is originated from Kobol , and in the real world mankind has been born (and still reside) on Earth.

The Earth Planet is just an other colony. the 13th tribe colony.

So I look at the season 2 again where some views of planet Kobol can be seen and could not decide if they show known continents or not. No moon is shown but is not a proof.

What do you think people , is it possible ?

Any lurkers reading beware this is a spoiler thread, so don't read any more if you don't want to be spoiled.........



...................



According to spoilers based on things Aaron Douglass has said, Earth is the Cylon homeworld. The Cylons from the previous iteration in the all this has happened before and will happen again cycle.

Back on Kobol, the original humans created the cylons as robots, just like the Colonies did. The cylons became self-aware and just like humans. There was a war between them, with the cylons being the 13th tribe. The humans went off to the form the colonies and the original cylons went off to earth.

Just like their human creators, the cylons destroyed themselves. By becoming human, they tend to destroy themselves just like humans do. The Final Five are members of the original earth cylons, who decided to return to the colonies to study what it is about humans that makes them destroy themselves. They turned off their memories of who they really were in order to live and experience things just as real humans. However, they put a trigger in to restore their memory at the opportune time. That was the Dylan music and all that stuff.

The only question is where are they in the timeline relative to us. It could go either way, distant past or distant future.

-Richard

[SeanF]

The only question is where are they in the timeline relative to us. It could go either way, distant past or distant future.
Wouldn't the Dylan music imply, at least, that it's not our distant past?

[publius]

Wouldn't the Dylan music imply, at least, that it's not our distant past?


RDM has babbled something about not taking Dylan too literally as being the real Dylan -- it's just a metaphor or something.

The way this plays out, it may be the fifth cylon is revealed to us the audience well before it's revealed to the characters. That is, it will be our secret as things play out, just as we knew the Dylan Four before the rest of our heroes.

Now, that's just a rumor at this point, I don't know for certain.


-Richard

[Ara Pacis]

Or will they try to break the fourth wall and make it a documentary discovered in Athens or something and that the fifth cylon is an old human who walks the earth alone and unseen, like the Wandering Jew or maybe Santa Claus.

[publius]

Caprica Update:


Sci-Fi has given the greenlight to the series, ordering 20 episodes, which will air in 2010. Apparently they have decided to hold the pilot until after BSG ends in 2009.


-Richard

[clint]

So there will be a prequel, cool! :)

[galacsi]

I changed my mind : The final cylon could be caprica Six.

The reasons :

. She is not in the Last Supper painting ,there are 2 six in it but one is Nathalie and the other is Head six.

. D'anna , wrongly , believe she is not in the fleet , because she was dead before Caprica decided to join the fleet with Sharon and Hera.

. D'anna tried to box her and was att odd with her on Caprica and New Caprica so Caprica six can be the one she has been apologising.

. She surely need redemption because she has been instrumental in the human genocide.

. And has been in jail for a long time , so "in the dark".

Don't know what you think of that ? ( it is my third pet theory ! )

[Certassar]

I don't know. If the final Cylon is a Six, aren't we one model short?

[jt-3d]

I was thinking the final cylon was Zarek. He didn't cooperate on New Caprica because he didn't have to, already being a cylon. And he was a killer of humans on Caprica, just like a cylon. But that would mean the final five is four men and one woman. I doubt they'd have that much of an inbalance so I need to go back to the drawing board. :think:

I'm glad we're finally getting back to it though. It's been a looooong wait.

[galacsi]

I don't know. If the final Cylon is a Six, aren't we one model short?

Well , it is a valid point. But one can say it is only Caprica six , not all the production line , to talk like Roslin.

After all Athena and Boomer are quite different people inside the same model.

By the way Boomer also could be a good FF. But she is a little weak on the needing redemption side.More a victim than a sinner IMO.

[galacsi]

I was thinking the final cylon was Zarek. He didn't cooperate on New Caprica because he didn't have to, already being a cylon. And he was a killer of humans on Caprica, just like a cylon. But that would mean the final five is four men and one woman. I doubt they'd have that much of an inbalance so I need to go back to the drawing board. :think:

I'm glad we're finally getting back to it though. It's been a looooong wait.


Yes I am glad too.

I don't see the Cylons like you. I don't think they ever been machines dedicated to kill humans. They always have been biological with more or less technology grafted on them.In season three we learn they can die from a virus and they share the same DNA.And in Razor when Young Adama kill one on the snowy planet , he is covered with blood to his great surprise.

Cylons are not robots , they are ,at heart human ,techno slaves , fodder and servants for the colonials.
They were called Machine for marketing reason first , then racist reasons to justify their exploitation and extermination.

We don't know what happen , how they revolt , how "skin jobs" came to the show. How the five are specials. May be they marooned a long time ago and so are taboo ?

Some of these questions may be answered in the 4.5 season , othesr in Caprica. I am impatient to see how the writers have managed the end .

Even if I am completely wrong I will surely pleased by the end , I love this show.

[vonmazur]

So we will find the ruins of Tyrell Corp, and the simulant factory???

And Harrison Ford will make a guest shot....

Dale in AL

[galacsi]

So we will find the ruins of Tyrell Corp, and the simulant factory???

And Harrison Ford will make a guest shot....

Dale in AL

Yes , Replicants in space ! ;)

Or Cyborgs BTW . Robots are so common in SF that people seems to think they are real. But in our real worls there is nothing like a sentient robot. Just great but completely stupid automatons.

In fact nothing even barely as complex than an ant. Probably the smartest robot is less complex than a bacteria.

[jt-3d]

I don't see the Cylons like you. I don't think they ever been machines dedicated to kill humans. They always have been biological with more or less technology grafted on them.In season three we learn they can die from a virus and they share the same DNA.And in Razor when Young Adama kill one on the snowy planet , he is covered with blood to his great surprise.

Cylons are not robots , they are ,at heart human ,techno slaves , fodder and servants for the colonials.
They were called Machine for marketing reason first , then racist reasons to justify their exploitation and extermination.



You know you are suspicioulsy defensive of cylons. Perhaps you are the final cylon.... :eek:

[galacsi]

You know you are suspicioulsy defensive of cylons. Perhaps you are the final cylon.... :eek:

Oh stop that please , it was supposed to be a secret !

But yes I think , slavery, is a subject that will be developed in the next series "Caprica".

So Cylons are humans at heart , it does not excuse the destruction of colonies in any way , but it can be an alibi or the beginning of an explanation. Really I Don't have any theory about the real cause of this catastrophe.

Cylons seems also immature , even a little psychopath , no inhibition , killing so easy. They are built with their head already full loaded of the convenient ideas for the job to be done . A perfect dream for the military or the unscrupulous boss ! Nothing they have learn slowly year after year by themself , no personnal ideas at the beginning .And they have been made to believe they are without sin.
So yes, in this point of view , their "programmers" are the real culprits of the human genocide.
And then who are these "programmers" or brain customisers ?

It is rather difficult to explain myself in English , but I hope you se what I mean.

[galacsi]

I think I have an other clue that the fifth cylon is Caprica six.

In the spoiler "You are the fifth" the way Clonel Tigh say you are it ,solwly softly could very well to be said at somebody he care for.

If he were talking to somebody else it should have been "You frakking b*****d , you are the fifth !"

And may be an other clue in the Baltar delirium when tortured by Adama , he see a bunch or dirty kids around his imaginary goo bath. I think they are pictures or symbols of the final fives. 4 cold be young Tigh ,Anders , Tyrol and tory. One behind is a young girl could be a young six. May be , not sure. (this idea not entirely from me , I took a part of it in SCIFI forum)

[jrkeller]

The scifi website has just released the latest mini-episode.

I feel that the final Cylon is Gaeta's significant other

[galacsi]

The scifi website has just released the latest mini-episode.

And even all webisode except the 9. An error has been done and you can find them on the net with Youtube. example : http://video.aol.com/video-detail/bsg-the-face-of-the-enemy-part-6/3880589440/?icid=VIDURVENT10

I feel that the final Cylon is Gaeta's significant other


You mean Hoshi ?

[jrkeller]

You mean Hoshi ?

Nope. The other, significant other in the webisode.

[jrkeller]

galacsi,

Thanks for the webisode info. I watched them all. I now I have more doubts who is the final cylon.

[galacsi]

galacsi,

Thanks for the webisode info. I watched them all. I now I have more doubts who is the final cylon.

yes , and it put more than a grain of salt onto my theories ! :silenced:

[clint]

Wow, I just watched webisode 10 :surprised

First, I was really annoyed not to be able to see webisode 9, but now I think it's cool.
At the end of webisode 10, it seems like Gaetor already knows everything
(he openly calls Thigh a cylon and he predicts a bright future for Hoshi).

But without webisode 9, we have no idea how he got to know all that
(and what's more, we don't know how much he really knows - does he know who's the final cylon is?)

Can't wait to learn what he wants to tell Adama so urgently...

[jrkeller]

Maybe the final cylon is the baby of Tigh and Six.

[galacsi]

Maybe the final cylon is the baby of Tigh and Six.

I hope you are wrong , don't want to wait some other months before seeing him/her. LOL

[Doodler]

who has webisode 10? Its not on the SciFi website...

[galacsi]

who has webisode 10? Its not on the SciFi website...

For the same price , you can get ten ! : http://whatsontv.co.uk/blogs/tvspy/battlestar-galactica/its-almost-all-10-webisodes-of-battlestar-galactica-the-face-of-the-enemy/

[jrkeller]

who has webisode 10? Its not on the SciFi website...

youtube has all of them except number 9

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkNAzJDYxF0

[jt-3d]

These webbies seem to be designed to drive away fans. What a bunch of dreck. Add in the comentary by the writer and you have a nauseating mash of gay crap with way too much flashing lights. Never give a director direct control over strobes. Sheesh. And the sound sucks. What garbage. Stay clear.

[clint]

These webbies seem to be designed to drive away fans. What a bunch of dreck. Add in the comentary by the writer and you have a nauseating mash of gay crap with way too much flashing lights. Never give a director direct control over strobes. Sheesh. And the sound sucks. What garbage. Stay clear.

Seems someone woke up a little ill-humored here... :lol:

[Jim]

SciFi Channel will air all ten webisodes during the movie "Pitch Black" on Thursday night.

[publius]

Latest scuttlebutt is that Ellen Tigh is the Fifth. There's something about the actress who plays her and a stunt double being listed in the credits for the forthcoming episode. It could simply be a vision or a flashback, though.

Everyone is fairly sure that the reveal of the Fifth will be to the audience right in the next episode, 4-11, but the characters won't know it for awhile.

And then there's some mysterious talk coming out that the Final Five "predate everything" and are the "bridge between human and cylon-machine beyond a mere physical level".


-Richard

[galacsi]

Latest scuttlebutt is that Ellen Tigh is the Fifth. There's something about the actress who plays her and a stunt double being listed in the credits for the forthcoming episode. It could simply be a vision or a flashback, though.

Everyone is fairly sure that the reveal of the Fifth will be to the audience right in the next episode, 4-11, but the characters won't know it for awhile.

And then there's some mysterious talk coming out that the Final Five "predate everything" and are the "bridge between human and cylon-machine beyond a mere physical level".


-Richard

Richard Publius is the FF or the thread , his fist port predate everything ! Some hijackers like galacsi_ca must admit it : Hail our great poster !

Now let be serious , CAPRICA SIX or Caprica six/ELEN as an old Six Model is the final five !

PS : No ! I did not smoke the fitted carpet !!

[publius]

Big SPOILERS galore, don't read if you don't want to know:


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I can't say with 100% certainty, but here's some of the latest:


Dee commits suicide, despairing that Earth is a wasteland. Both sides, human and cylon, are devasted. T_gh, Chief, et all start "remembering" with visions what happened on Earth.

The final scene of the final episode is of (a) Six in the red dress strolling down the streets of New York City. All of this has happened before and it will happen again. Oh, and Tricia Helfer gets to keep the red dress as well as some other Six wardrobe items.

And some stuff I'm even less sure of:

Baltar has known the Fifth was a Cylon all along. Remember his famous cylon detector pegged Boomer. Well, he pegged another one we didn't know about.


Chief and Cally's son, Nikky, is not really the Chief's. The kid gets sick and Cottle, in the course of testing, determines Nikky is not the Chief's kid. Hotdog may be the real father. So that would mean Nikky is not a hybrid of any sort.

-Richard

[galacsi]

For those like me than could not see the show and cannot wait several months to buy the cd : http://www.megavideo.com/?v=4IMGCA0E&setlang=en

(And I will buy the Cds , in french version , when at end they come out)

[Doodler]

Hulu.com has it, too.

[publius]

Some more Spoilers. Again, stop reading right now if you don't want to be spoiled.


........................


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Ellen does come back and is reunited with Saul. Their love is truly "eternal" (What this does to his relationship and child situation with Cappy, I don't know, but I'm sure it will be loads of fun). I love RDM's warped sense of humor. Of all the relationships in the world to be some sort of cosmic, eternal soul-mate thing, he picks T_gh and Ellen. The Final Five are apparently truly immortal. The resurrected Ellen is "enlightened".

Also, Kate Vernon, who plays Ellen, nixed the speculation that she's an "older Six" or that Six is somehow based on her.

And then there will be a major shocker reveal at the end of every episode.

Everything is supposed to be explained, including the head characters. Olmos has said the story of how Starbutt came back is "just sick" and he can't believe they let the writers get away with it. That may just be him being overly dramatic, but who knows.

-Richard

[Davidlpf]

On Space they said the final episode will be three hours long.

[Ara Pacis]

Just a quick note on the webisodes. I watched them all an hour before the new season premiered and if I learned nothing else from them, I think it was established that the Red Line is relative to the jumper's origin, liek some sort of decrease in critical probability, not to some absolute reference map. I wonder if jumping too far beyond it would do something crazy, like go back in time or go to heaven or something.

[publius]

Here is an interesting interview with Kate Vernon, who plays Ellen:


http://www.accesshollywood.com/dish-of-salt-who-is-battlestar-galacticas-final-cylon_video_940001


According to that, she's known she was the Fifth for two years. Back when T_gh put her to sleep, I remember stories about how sad she and the cast were about killing her character off and she wouldn't be working with them anymore. Heck, she knew all along she was coming back in a big way.

Now, she says something about her and T_gh being "hybrids", but I'm not sure we should take that in a literal sense. I think she was just sort of babbling.

And finally, here's an interesting Canadian preview of the next episode, which shows new stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikLb2s-sk9Q

Note the interesting bit with T_gh and Cappy seeing something laying out the history of the Cylon race.

-Richard

[publius]

And finally, I've been reading some more and came across something interesting. The following is speculation, not spoilers, although it is based on some things that are known:

HeadBaltar and HeadSix may actually be real Baltar and real CappySix. They may be like the Final Five, choosing to implant themselves as key participants in the saga (to learn firsthand or something) and forget who they really are. The Head characters are actually the "higher, fully informed" instances of those characters who guide each other.

There could be some sort of "time loop" involved, where the Head characters are actually the future versions, communicating with their past selves.


-Richard

[clint]

(--- spoiler in the video link ---)

This seems to confirm much of the above mentioned:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M99_HCQ8keI

Also raises lots of questions though... :think:

[clint]

Woooo, hey, I just found webisode 9:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sB31HSBW6o

Now I'm REALLY confused, though
(have to watch them all again and in the right order, I guess)

[galacsi]

Woooo, hey, I just found webisode 9:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sB31HSBW6o

Now I'm REALLY confused, though
(have to watch them all again and in the right order, I guess)

They are not extremely important IMO . They just help to explain why Gaeta will ally with Zarek in the new episode. And also explain the psychology of the Cylon , we can see better why Athena killed Nathalie. No inhibitions , dangerous psychopaths !

[publius]

WARNING: More spoiler stuff.


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Above, I wasn't certain, but it's been confirmed (as far as spoilers can go) that Baltar has known Ellen was a Cylon ever since the blood tests. Baltar is truly "the guardian of God's children", whatever that means. Helo and Sharon are in far a rough ride. No one is certain, but Helo may die. The actor who plays Helo, Tahmoh what's his name, has said we'll be blown away by what happens to them.

And then the Final Five are not "bad", but have been "negligent" in their duties, whatever that means. And apparently the repeating cycle of time has been interrupted this time around, and that will have to do with the resolution of the series. Many questions will be answered, but many more will be posed in the end. :lol:


-Richard

[jrkeller]

Many questions will be answered, but many more will be posed in the end. :lol:


-Richard


Allowing for another spinoff series or additional movies.

[publius]

The usual WARNING!



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................................


Confirmation that Hotdog is really the father of Nikky, Chief and Cally's kid.

The way Ellen comes back in the flesh may "wrankle people". Also, just what Starbuck is and how she came back may wrankle people as well. She's not really a clone, but is nonetheless Starbuck 2.0. Don't ask me what this means, I'm just relaying it.

The prophecies are "mostly correct", but everyone is wrong on who is playing what role. This seems to mean the assumption that Roslin is the dying leader is incorrect -- it's somebody else. :lol: However, the prophecies are somewhat screwed up because the cycle of time has been interrupted.

Now, about this disruption Cycle of Time. They cycle is apparently humans vs. cylon resulting in the destruction of both races, and survivors starting the cycle over again. The Final Five came to the Colonies to study the Cycle and learn how to stop it. This is apparently what they are negligent in. The Head characters, whatever they are, also want to stop the cycle of hatred between the races and they are the ones who succeeded in stopping it via the human-cylon hybrids. That is, the creation of the hybrids was their plan to stop the cycle, which they engineered through their string pulling.

Now, as we've sort of guessed from previews, Zarek leads a rebellion, going back to his terrorist roots and that will get nasty, causing great losses. Zarek is truly a villian in that his agenda would continue the Cycle.

Roslin continues her slide and pretty much hits rock bottom -- she just goes nuts. Whether she comes out of it and redeems herself, I don't know, but it apparently gets pretty bad. We're going to lose respect for the character.

And I'm whiting out this last one. Just don't read it. :lol:

And finally, the Galactica will be destroyed at the end, going down in a blaze of glory.

-Richard

[tusenfem]

Darn! going on a trip tomorrow, but heyyy that will mean 2 episodes of BSG when I am back on the 31st!

[galacsi]

I am warming up my Torrent ! (Shhhh . . . . )

[publius]

That friend of mine who does dastardly downloading deeds is looking for some HDTV rips of BSG on the various binary newsgroups. He doesn't like torrent's idea of opening up his network, so prefers the newsgroups.

I broke down on a lark and bought a Samsung 40" LCD HD digital job a couple weeks ago, plus got a "media player" box that will play various video files over the network. HD looks much better through that than it does on my monitors playing directly on the computers. :) It will ruin you.

Luckily, I learned my cable company doesn't offer Sci-Fi or any of the others I would like in HD, so I won't be "upgrading". Already, it offers several non-encrypted HD feeds anyway. I watched the NFL playoffs in HD, and that just ruined me.



-Richard

[publius]

Found a 720p rip. Ye Gods, that sucker is going to be about 1GB in size! They ought to have tonight's up by the time this one finishes downloading.

My, uh my friend's newsserver has a bandwidth cap (you can pay extra for higher to unlimted speeds) -- it will go at about 350kbps. However, it will spew headers wide open. Even then, it took about two hours to download all the headers for the alt.binaries.tv group. There were over 11 million files (there are more headers than this actually via the standard chunk scheme where 100 or so "posts" per file). The spool file is over 2GB in size, I just noticed!

I think I've got an excuse to get a NAS box and/or a Blu-ray burner.......

Wheew, almost had a show stopper. The file my friend is downloading is .mkv format, and I was afraid my new Netgear EVA8000 player wouldn't handle that, but a check of the specs confirms it will.

-Richard

[Ara Pacis]

I've had SFC in HD for year or so, IIRC. I really got hooked on it in HD several years ago when NBC re-aired the miniseries on NBC HD and then I started watching the first couple seasons re-aired in HD on Universal HD. I got my HD-ready TV 5 years ago from a Circuit City store closing sale. Now they are all closing. :(

So, how can Starbuck be a non-clone? Is this some sort of Farscape twinning gun? Starbuck from a parallel universe? Starbuck from the past where she had some missing time because she came to the future for a little while? Or is the dead Starbuck her future self? Is that it, something to do with the vortex? Was it Starbuck flying in a stealth cylon raider or, confusingly, a colonial viper that shot herself down at the vortex? Who else would be good enough to shoot her down?

[publius]

So, how can Starbuck be a non-clone? Is this some sort of Farscape twinning gun? Starbuck from a parallel universe? Starbuck from the past where she had some missing time because she came to the future for a little while? Or is the dead Starbuck her future self? Is that it, something to do with the vortex? Was it Starbuck flying in a stealth cylon raider or, confusingly, a colonial viper that shot herself down at the vortex? Who else would be good enough to shoot her down?

I don't know; I just know what I read in the spoiler papers. :) Olmos has said that how Starbuck came back "is sick" and he couldn't believe they let the writers get away with it. That may just be EJO being overly dramatic which is known to do, but there it is.


-Richard

[publius]

Well, 1280x720p was much better than the old crap. :) The rip format was some H.264 encoding inside a .mkv container. There was a little hiccup with my Netgear EVA8000: it wouldn't "rewind". It would fast foward, and do just about everything else, but refused to rewind with a "not supported" message. So what's up with that little glitch, I don't know.

But otherwise it was indeed much better. They film BSG sort of "grainy" anyway to help it give the "dark and dreary" feel, anyway, but it was a lot better than what I'm used to.

Ah, last night's episode is up in 720p finally. Well actually, it was posted last night around midnight EST, it just took it that long to propagate across the server system. That alt.binaries.tv group is *HUGE*, taking up a 2GB spool file on the hard drive just to index the headers as I mentioned last night........ There's some other smaller groups, specializing in Sci-fi, but I don't see any of the HD rips there.


-Richard

[Ara Pacis]

I think BitTorrent would be faster and save your harddrive some headaches with the headers. Plus, you can often have more than one choice in formats.

[publius]

I think BitTorrent would be faster and save your harddrive some headaches with the headers. Plus, you can often have more than one choice in formats.


Oh space is no problem -- I've got over 2TB storage. The machine I'm typing on now has 5 internal hard drives, and my other has 4 plus a 500GB external drive. :)

I prefer the binary newsgroups, actually, as I'm just too paranoid to open my network. Well, I've done it with some friends via VPNs and such, but there's no way I'm going to open up publically. And the newsgroups are more anonymous anyway.

They do have stuff in several formats. DivX/Xvid is quite common. BSG episodes in that, running ~300M per episode are all over the place-- I was just looking for a 720p HD format. There's a dedicated newsgroup for BSG episodes, but last I looked they weren't posting HD.

-Richard

[HenrikOlsen]

The bittorrent protocol works OK from behind a firewall, you just don't get connections to the other people who are behind firewalls..

[galacsi]

Oh space is no problem -- I've got over 2TB storage. The machine I'm typing on now has 5 internal hard drives, and my other has 4 plus a 500GB external drive. :)

I prefer the binary newsgroups, actually, as I'm just too paranoid to open my network. Well, I've done it with some friends via VPNs and such, but there's no way I'm going to open up publically. And the newsgroups are more anonymous anyway.

They do have stuff in several formats. DivX/Xvid is quite common. BSG episodes in that, running ~300M per episode are all over the place-- I was just looking for a 720p HD format. There's a dedicated newsgroup for BSG episodes, but last I looked they weren't posting HD.

-Richard

Yes for this last episode I got a 350m DivX/Xvid , 5 hours downloading . For the previous 4.11 episode I downloaded a full 1 G and some file. Much longer but really better as good as a commercial DVD. Anyway in 6 months the french version will be released and I will buy the DVDss I have done for all the previous seasons. The translation is not always perfect but it is much more confortable in your own language.

This was a transition episode. The galactica is littered , Bill do not care anymore , He take pills , may he is ill ? He is his usual bad communicator and don't explain his politics to the fleet. Laura is no help . So after the bitter disappointement of this "Earth" Zarek and gaeta have their windows of opportunity !

[publius]

It's not 100% certain, but Ellen will probably return in the flesh as the big shocker reveal at the end of the next episode.


-Richard

[galacsi]

It's not 100% certain, but Ellen will probably return in the flesh as the big shocker reveal at the end of the next episode.


-Richard


Like we saw in the spoiler , from a raptor with Boomer or an other height ? I would like Boomer to return to the fleet and see how she interact with Bill Adama and others.

[publius]

Some more last minute spoilers the accuracy of which we'll soon learn:

Laird, the conscripted Pegasus deck chief, who has taken over for Tyrol, reappears only to buy the farm, getting shot by the mutineers. Gaeta manages to take over the Galactica. Adama and T_gh (and maybe others) escape on a raptor, but Gaeta orders them shot down (it may end on this drama).

Before all that, T_gh will walk in on PopAdama and Roslin, catching them en flagrante delicto which is supposed to be some comic relief.


-Richard

[Solfe]

Any notice the flash bang at the end of tonight's show? The Marines pitch in a grenade, but it has the regular holes in the sides?

[publius]

Well, Ellen didn't reappear at the end this time and Laird got whacked with a crescent wrench, not shot. And Adama stayed behind. I won't mention Ellen not showing up in the discussion thread as it's still spoiler material.

From the short preview of next week's episode, there's something about T_gh being killed (with a shot of a shocked looking Cappy). I suspect that will have something to do with how he his reunited with Ellen -- he may meet her in Final Five resurrection land, the "space between life and death" or whatever and both come back in the flesh together.


-Richard

[Solfe]

I have this theory that Galactica could end all utopia like... A happy ending. Crazy eh?

Here is my "data" for this weird theory -
1) D'Anna shows that the "Seven" Cylons method of downloading is quick, just enough time for other cylons to show up and provide support. Distance is a factor in this, not time.
2) Starbuck died and was resurrected, complete with a new Viper, ring, dog tags, etc. She was missing for weeks.
C) Ellen has been dead for months.
4) Vipers don't appear to have FTL abilities, yet Starbuck returns after death in one.
5) Cylons who have shown great differences from the norms of their models seem have been eliminated or completely isolated. Tigh Six, Natalie, Athena, Cavil's 8, and so on.
F) no more Doctor Who references. : )

If Ellen shows up again in the flesh, that would make the second person to not only resurrect, but also the second to show a time lapse and the ability to cross huge distances.

Not assume micro-details, but after the big knock out fight that seems to be brewing, only a handful of survivors remain. Among them are Athena and Cavil's 8, Simon, Cavil, Tigh's Six, Leoban, Aaron and a few humans, mostly children.

That is pretty dark. And parallel to the original series, including the first and last show of the Galactica 1980 show. (Gods, how I wasted my youth... I could have been watching CHiPs or something.)

So, what if Starbuck and Ellen's resurrection machine kicks in and EVERYONE is resurrected. Absolutely everyone from 12 colonies. That is the kicker, the resurrection thing is one of major differences between humans and cylons. As an added bonus, D'Anna also is resurrected and that technology can also reproduce items need to fix Earth or start another journey.

Weird eh? What do you think?

Solfe

[publius]

I have this theory that Galactica could end all utopia like... A happy ending.
....

That is pretty dark....
Solfe

I'm certain the end is going to be dark, and it may indeed be happy as well in some weird way that RDM's demented mind comes up with.

There's no specific spoilers on this, but everything seems to indicate that very few survive. The "children", the hybrids (and possibly T_gh and Cappy's Final Five/Seven hybrid) are going to be very important. I'm going to guess they will be what survives and starts anew.

We still have no idea how the Final Five resurrect. I suspect it's going to be something very different and maybe even more profound in some way than the regular, now apparently defunct, modern Cylon resurrection.


-Richard

[Doodler]

Well, Ellen didn't reappear at the end this time and Laird got whacked with a crescent wrench, not shot. And Adama stayed behind. I won't mention Ellen not showing up in the discussion thread as it's still spoiler material.

From the short preview of next week's episode, there's something about T_gh being killed (with a shot of a shocked looking Cappy). I suspect that will have something to do with how he his reunited with Ellen -- he may meet her in Final Five resurrection land, the "space between life and death" or whatever and both come back in the flesh together.


-Richard

Saw the preview, if they really did off the old man...oh man...stay out of Ill Presidente's warpath.

[publius]

Just stumbled across this on the TWOP board. This site (some NBC Universal thing) has promo picks for all the forthcoming episodes, save "Daybreak", the finale:

https://nbcuphotobank.com/sales/home.php

In the search box in the upper right, enter "Galactica" plus a word or two from the episode title. For example, to get the photos from next week's episode, "Blood on the Scales", enter "Galactica Scales".

The titles of the forthcoming episodes are as follows:

4-14: Blood on the Scales
4-15: No Exit
4-16: Deadlock
4-17: Someone to Watch Over Me
4-18: Islanded in a Stream of Stars
4-19: Daybreak, Part I
4-20: Daybreak, Part II & III

(Note: this is not the official numbering scheme which counts "Razor" as episodes 1 and 2 of S4. Add two to get the official episode number).

-Richard

[jamesabrown]

Plenty of pics of Tigh, so the whole, "Tigh was killed" line in the teaser is likely a deception, either toward the other characters or us the audience.

[galacsi]

Just stumbled across this on the TWOP board. This site (some NBC Universal thing) has promo picks for all the forthcoming episodes, save "Daybreak", the finale:

https://nbcuphotobank.com/sales/home.php

In the search box in the upper right, enter "Galactica" plus a word or two from the episode title. For example, to get the photos from next week's episode, "Blood on the Scales", enter "Galactica Scales".

The titles of the forthcoming episodes are as follows:

4-14: Blood on the Scales
4-15: No Exit
4-16: Deadlock
4-17: Someone to Watch Over Me
4-18: Islanded in a Stream of Stars
4-19: Daybreak, Part I
4-20: Daybreak, Part II & III

(Note: this is not the official numbering scheme which counts "Razor" as episodes 1 and 2 of S4. Add two to get the official episode number).

-Richard

Great pictures Publius , I liked particularly ,Kara's Pictures from "Someone to watch over me". So , maybe , this is the famed pianist some spoilers talked about.

About Kara , I lean to a time loop. In the future ,she is duplicated and sent back in the past to assume her destiny , one specimen die on the "Earth" planet and the other is the KARA we see in season 4.5 . Or something weirder like .. Oh I don't dare to say it !

But I know many assume there will be no time trick , because the show want to be as realistically scientific as possible. Maybe , but we have FTL and if that is useful to travel between the star , it is supposed to be impossible. (By the orthodoxy.)

[publius]

Yes, that's the mysterious piano player that Kara is "drawn to". And there's lots of other interesting things in those photos. From "Deadlock", Tyrol is back in his deck uniform, and he and Adama appear to be in some new location, perhaps some new ship or area of a ship we've never seen before. (Some are speculating it is some Final Five ship they come across, but I have no idea).

In one of those shots, we've got what looks the back of a blonde Six in jeans painting part of this new ship/area.

And for "Blood on the Scales", we've got a regular-Tricia-hair Six, sort of like Natalie.

-Richard

[galacsi]

In one of those shots, we've got what looks the back of a blonde Six in jeans painting part of this new ship/area.

And for "Blood on the Scales", we've got a regular-Tricia-hair Six, sort of like Natalie.

-Richard

Also I see a black haired women , maybe a height in the background.
Some people say they are , at last , upgrading the FTL system with Cylon technology !

[publius]

Here's a little sneak peak clip of Friday's episode at the bottom of this page, showing Roslin and Baltar aboard the Basestar:


http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Battlestar-Galactica-Blood-On-The-Scales-Episode-Clip-14960.html

[Doodler]

Here's a little sneak peak clip of Friday's episode at the bottom of this page, showing Roslin and Baltar aboard the Basestar:


http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Battlestar-Galactica-Blood-On-The-Scales-Episode-Clip-14960.html

Nice to see Mama Adama with her head dislodged from her posterior, finally.

[publius]

The following is not certain, more speculation that spoiler:


Romo Lampkin returns, probably with some role in Zarek's show trial of Adama. Zarek wants to kill all Adama/Roslin loyalists, but Gaeta balks at going that far. Romo may kill Zarek.

And once again, Ellen may return at the end of this episode. That's what they were saying about the last one, so we'll just wait and see. However, Ellen is supposed to appear in 6 episodes, so we're running out of time for her to reappear. If she doesn't show up tomorrow, it will have to be the next one for sure (if the 6 episodes thing is correct, which most seem to think).


-Richard

[Ara Pacis]

Hmmm, I dunno if I should put this here or in the other thread, but I just got a wild speculation idea. What if the base star ends up blowing up the Galactica, or maybe the Admiral or Starbuck ends up scuttling the ship. Then maybe the Galactica could be resurrected... but now it will have some new tech including a hybrid that's a resurrected Starbuck. That would be... is sick the right word?

[publius]

Hmmm, I dunno if I should put this here or in the other thread,

I think our little rule should be that if it's speculation based on any spoiler material, it goes here. If it's speculation based on what has aired, then it's fair game for the discussion thread. We don't want to spoil anyone who doesn't want to be, but still let them discuss and speculate on known information. :)

-Richard

[publius]

Some last minute spoilers:

The scene of Adama blindfolded before the firing squad is a dream sequence (whose we don't know). Two major characters die. Two dying just about seals Zarek as one, but who is the other? Gaeta would be likely guess, but he's apparently around until 4-16. From all who are known to be around in later episodes, that leaves Caprica Six, or some of the more secondaries, such as Narcho, Racetrack, etc. It's also possible T_gh does die, only to be resurrected, but why would he come back still missing his eye?

Anders suffers a severe injury, and he's the one whose head x-rays they're looking at in sick bay from the promo pics. This injury is apparently the cliffhanger for this episode, so Ellen may not yet show up. Unless T_gh does die and resurrect, in which case I'm certain he'll meet Ellen.

-Richard

[publius]

Well, it was Gaeta after all. But yet he appears in future episodes, which has me wondering. Are the merely flash backs -- perhaps he appears as some head character? But then, I think there may be more to Baltar's "I know who you are" line.

And no Ellen this time, but from the previews, she comes back next week, and from a regular ol' looking tub of resurrection goo.


-Richard

[Ara Pacis]

I'm guessing that Baltar was merely being ironic, because he knows the true Gaeta is the Gaeta who gets in over his head, the Gaeta who tries to play but instead gets played, like when he tried to play both sides on New Caprica, but got people killed by trusting the wrong people when he tries to do the right thing, just like he did by trusting Zarek.

[Doodler]

The following is not certain, more speculation that spoiler:


Romo Lampkin returns, probably with some role in Zarek's show trial of Adama. Zarek wants to kill all Adama/Roslin loyalists, but Gaeta balks at going that far. Romo may kill Zarek.

And once again, Ellen may return at the end of this episode. That's what they were saying about the last one, so we'll just wait and see. However, Ellen is supposed to appear in 6 episodes, so we're running out of time for her to reappear. If she doesn't show up tomorrow, it will have to be the next one for sure (if the 6 episodes thing is correct, which most seem to think).


-Richard

With five remaining, I think we forgot to count the flashback in "Sometimes a Great Notion".

[galacsi]

It was a straitforward episode , rather predictable but very well done. I liked the Romo's comeback. And for the first time we see what there is behind " FTL spanning" phrase. Impressive machine ! :D

One thing I miss due to English not being my mother tongue is what Gaeta said about his leg just before being executed. Did he spoke of a STUD or a STUB or what ?

Somebody can help ?

[Doodler]

It was a straitforward episode , rather predictable but very well done. I liked the Romo's comeback. And for the first time we see what there is behind " FTL spanning" phrase. Impressive machine ! :D

One thing I miss due to English not being my mother tongue is what Gaeta said about his leg just before being executed. Did he spoke of a STUD or a STUB or what ?

Somebody can help ?

"It stopped" is what he said. It stopped itching, which had been driving him nuts.