The Classics thread.

[peteshimmon]

Just thought I might start this, a place for
folks to give a quick review of odd musical
classics that please them and might be of
interest to anyone not familier. To start..

Symphony no 1, "classical" Prokofiev.

Just 4 movements, quite short, total about
14 minutes. It is a very refreshing sound
that cheers you up. The Finale is quick and
urgent. And it is relaxing.

[Serenitude]

Bohemian Rhapsody, A Capella :D

http://www.groovygrooves.com/video/bohemian-rhapsody-a-capella

(I know, not what you're looking for, but this is great :p )

[Maksutov]

Bohemian Rhapsody, A Capella :D

http://www.groovygrooves.com/video/bohemian-rhapsody-a-capella

(I know, not what you're looking for, but this is great :p )That sounds a bit different with just voices. It would be nice if the audience would shut up.

Meanwhile:

Mahler: Symphony

No. 3 when I'm happy.
No. 9 when I'm sad.
No. 5 when things are crappy.
No. 6 when I'm mad.
No. 7 when nighttime's creepy.
No. 4 when I'm bad.
No. 8 when I'm weepy.
No. 1 when I'm glad.




And anything by Tchaikovsky when I need to take a nap.

[Tucson_Tim]

Two of my favorites, but they are not obscure:

- Wagner: Ride of the Valkyries
- Mussorgsky: The Great Gate at Kiev

[Maksutov]

Two of my favorites, but they are not obscure:

- Wagner: Ride of the Valkyries
- Mussorgsky: The Great Gate at KievIf you like those excerpts you should try Die Walküre (unless you're one of the folks who can't abide by operatic singing) and Pictures at an Exhibition. The music just before the "Great Gate" ("Baba-Yaga") is quite remarkable and in the same vein as the dynamic music of Night on the Bald Mountain. The Ravel orchestration is wonderful.

BTW, the Prokofiev and Mahler symphonies are anything but obscure, unless the reference was to those just getting into classical music.

[Nowhere Man]

Beethoven's 6th symphony.
The duet from The Pearl Fishers (Au fond du temple saint).

Fred

[mike alexander]

Romanian Rhapsody #1 by Enescu. Appeals to my Romany blood, of which I have none, but can pretend.

Procession of the Nobles, from Mlada, by Rimski-Korsakov.

Quiet City, by Aaron Copeland

Journey of the Sorcerer, by The Eagles. If Douglas Adams liked it, it's good enough for me.

The sound track from North by Northwest, by Herrmann.

[ABR.]

I hope I'm not crashing a private party...

I was inspired by the listings of Wagner and Mahler -- what, no Das Lied von der Erde? -- and then, after seeing Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition, I feel compelled to add Dvorak's Nine Symphony.

While I'm at it, how about Franz Liszt's Les Preludes and Howard Hanson's 2nd Symphony?

[Maksutov]

Quiet City, by Aaron CopelandIs he related to that Copland guy who wrote (watch) Appalachian (State University) Spring (over Michigan to victory)? I'd be upset if he weren't.The sound track from North by Northwest, by Herrmann.Wow, what a composer! His music for The Devil and Daniel Webster is outstanding. Ditto with Citizen Kane and The Magnificent Ambersons. The string orchestra music for Psycho has been ripped off ever since. Then there's the ultra-romantic but edgy music for Vertigo.

Plus he was a strong and early advocate of Ives.

Been missed for 32 years now.

[Maksutov]

I hope I'm not crashing a private party...

I was inspired by the listings of Wagner and Mahler -- what, no Das Lied von der Erde?...Re Das Lied, I was limiting the list to the numbered symphonies for formal reasons.

A list that would include it would be seasonal:

Spring:

Das klagende Lied
Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen
Symphony No. 1

Summer:

Symphony No. 3
Symphony No. 4
Symphony No. 5

Fall:

Das Lied von der Erde
Symphony No. 9
Symphony No. 10

Winter:

Symphony No. 6

and astronomically,

Winter Solstice:

Symphony No. 7

Vernal Equinox:

Symphony No. 8

Summer Solstice:

Symphony No. 3

Autumnal Equinox:

Symphony No. 2

and for a couple of special dates:

May 18th:

Kindertotenlieder

July 7th:

Mahlerthon (complete works: Piano Quartet in A Minor to Symphony No. 10)

[mike alexander]

Yeah, Copeland is distantly related to Copland. Wasn't Copland a musical? Isn't my brain mouldering tonight?


I love the NBNW track because it's such a dare. Wonder if he was influenced by Ravel? And Bernard H wrote the ORIGINAL theme for the Twilight Zone.

[danscope]

Hi, So much music....and time to enjoy it....and take it with you.

I always enjoy a tune called " The Third Man Theme ". It was majically produced by a genius zither player by the name of Anton Karas, which majic carried through the entire film . I delight in hearing it always.

Best regards, Dan

.....Oh...and have you heard E. Power Biggs play Tocatta in Fugue in C#minor
By JS Bach? Good peice of music there.

[Maksutov]

[Edit].....Oh...and have you heard E. Power Biggs play Tocatta in Fugue in C#minor
By JS Bach? Good peice of music there.Not aware of any Bach Tocatta and Fugue in C Sharp Minor. He did write a number of clavier pieces that were Preludes and Fugues in C Sharp Minor.

Are you thinking of the Tocatta and Fugue in D Minor, BWV 565 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toccata_and_Fugue_in_D_minor%2C_BWV_565)? It was often used in early horror pictures (The Black Cat, etc.) and is still a perennial favorite around Hallowe'en. An orchestral transcription by Stokowski starts off Disney's Fantasia.

[Maksutov]

I hope I'm not crashing a private party...Of course not, all BAUT parties are public.and then, after seeing Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition, I feel compelled to add Dvorak's Nine Symphony.Dvořák's Nine Symphonies (except for the last three) are greatly underappreciated, as are his various symphonic poems, my favorite of these being The Noon Witch (incredibly creepy, sinister (almost scientific!) music).While I'm at it, how about Franz Liszt's Les PreludesOne of the few Liszt pieces I can listen to repeatedly. and Howard Hanson's 2nd Symphony?Wonderful work, not played that often anymore. At least the folks who produced Alien remembered it.

[soylentgreen]

I can't see Dvorak appreciated and not mention Smetana.

His "Vltava"...or Moldau depending on your atlas...is easily one of the most exceptional tone poems ever created. Vivid, lush and irresistable. The keen ear can spot his impact on film scoring just as quickly as traditional homageees like Prokofiev and Wagner. You can catch Bedrich as part of the classical scene's "Def Composer Jam" along with Beethoven and Gabe Faure.

Oh yeah...just about anything by Grieg floats my boat. The guy was Norway's musical equivalent of Mark Twain...right down to the look. As far as I'm concerned his is the epitome of the romantic piano concerto.

Mahler: Symphony

No. 9 when I'm sad.

Mak, I'm positive I don't have to mention Lewis Thomas to you, right? ;)

[Nicolas]

I feel compelled to add Dvorak's Nine Symphony.

I just had the ninth of Dvorak on yesterday. I've got 3 versions of it, unfortunately the best one for my taste only in MP3 and one version on a damaged LP. But anyway, I really like his ninth, front to end. Count me in as a Wagner and Grieg fan too, and quite some Mozart also really fits my taste. So far for obscurity...sorry. :)

Call it classical or minimalism as you wish, but I'm also a big fan of the music of Wim Mertens.

[Maksutov]

I can't see Dvorak appreciated and not mention Smetana.

His "Vltava"...or Moldau depending on your atlas...is easily one of the most exceptional tone poems ever created. Vivid, lush and irresistable. The keen ear can spot his impact on film scoring just as quickly as traditional homageees like Prokofiev and Wagner. You can catch Bedrich as part of the classical scene's "Def Composer Jam" along with Beethoven and Gabe Faure.And one of the best uses of the "How Dry I Am" sequence in music, varying from major to minor as appropriate.

http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/9486/moldauthemehdiaby5.th.jpg (http://img472.imageshack.us/my.php?image=moldauthemehdiaby5.jpg)
Oh yeah...just about anything by Grieg floats my boat. The guy was Norway's musical equivalent of Mark Twain...right down to the look. As far as I'm concerned his is the epitome of the romantic piano concerto.In the Hall of the Mountain King is a classic example of "Music You Can't Get Out Of Your Head". It was used to great effect in the Peter Lorre film M. Funny that its first five notes, relative pitch-wise (a simple diatonic scale), are the same as the Smetana theme, if you start on the second "Moldau" note. Mak, I'm positive I don't have to mention Lewis Thomas to you, right? ;)His writings often show up in my late night thoughts.

[Michael Noonan]

La Vie Parisienne by Offenbach.
It makes me feel good.

[Maksutov]

La Vie Parisienne by Offenbach.
It makes me feel good.Amazing what some of those Germanic Jews could do, eh?

You should be so lucky.

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/4879/iconbiggrin1kg.gif

[danscope]

Not aware of any Bach Tocatta and Fugue in C Sharp Minor. He did write a number of clavier pieces that were Preludes and Fugues in C Sharp Minor.

Are you thinking of the Tocatta and Fugue in D Minor, BWV 565 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toccata_and_Fugue_in_D_minor%2C_BWV_565)? It was often used in early horror pictures (The Black Cat, etc.) and is still a perennial favorite around Hallowe'en. An orchestral transcription by Stokowski starts off Disney's Fantasia.

Hi, Perhaps I had the key wrong. If you recall a ' Captain Nemo' played by
James Mason in "Twenty Thousand Leagues under the Sea " you have the
one. Nice to here it on a tracker.
Best regards, Dan

[ABR.]

Wonderful work, not played that often anymore. At least the folks who produced Alien remembered it.

Hanson's 2nd may not be performed in its entirety very often, but a certain segment is performed multiple times per day...at least during the summer months and under the stately pines of Interlochen, Michigan.

For those of you who may be confused, a short segment of this symphony is used as the Theme at the Interlochen Arts Camp. It is performed at the conclusion of virtually every concert during the camp season and presumably during the winter months (Academy) as well. I should add that Liszt's Les Preludes is performed at the conclusion of every camp season, so I often link these pieces of music.

And may I say bravo for the Alien reference! Interlochen alums everywhere teared up in the theaters at that point in the movie.

[Doodler]

I'm more for classical vocals than strict orchestral pieces, but I have a few.

"Il Dolce Suono" Inva Mulla Tchako

"Adagio for Strings" arranged by Samuel Barber, though I prefer the choral version from Angus Dei.

[peteshimmon]

Thats great everyone thanks, lots of
interesting pointers to follow up. I could
have predicted that you Mak would list the
beloved Mahler symphonies yet I have still
learned something. I do play number one in
the Spring as it seems to presage the promise
of Summer. Never bother with the forth movement
these days though. If you mention Hitchcock
then include Rope. I thought it used a theme
from the Firebird as the piano and
introduction music. But IMDB say it is
something by Poulenc. Anyway..

The Firebird, suite 1919, Stravinsky.

Six movements about 20 minutes total. It is
a ballet score but never mind that. Several
dances then the really haunting Berceuse.
Carl Sagan used it in Cosmos for the Mars
episode.

[mike alexander]

How could I forget La Mer, Debussy?

[soylentgreen]

How could I forget La Mer, Debussy?

Another fantastic treat from Debussy is La Cathedrale Engloutie...one of the most haunting works for solo piano ever, IMO.

It has even etched itself in the minds of genre fans thanks to John Carpenter's clever use of it in ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK.

[toejam]

Hey Mak!!

Now that you have "stolen" Mahler from me I'll mention:

Sibelius' Symph #'s 2, 4, 5,&7

Beethoven's 7th (sentimental personal reason) & his Rasumovsky quartets.

Mozart Horn Ctos
Mozart Piano Ctos 14, &21-25 inclusive

Glazunov The Seasons.

Come to think of it, most of these spring to mind for non-musical reasons.

[Maksutov]

Hey Mak!!

Now that you have "stolen" Mahler from me I'll mention:

Sibelius' Symph #'s 2, 4, 5,&7Good choices, but, what, no 6th, Sibelius' most autumnal symphony? One wonders if a religious type somewhere has set the opening and concluding "hymn" to words? Cursing Sigmund Spaeth, I hope not.

Then there's his 1st, which always struck me what a Tchaikovsky symphony would sound like if old Pyotr had any idea how to write a symphony. BTW, the dotted rhythm march at the climax of the second movement is the same tune that I wrote as part of a piano sonata when I was about 12. I had not heard any Sibelius symphonies other than the ubiquitous 2nd at that point. Beethoven's 7th (sentimental personal reason) & his Rasumovsky quartets.Sentimental reasons here too for the 7th. I conducted it with the student orchestra while in college. The Allegretto came off best, while we made a mess of the Allegro con brio Finale (the poor horns), about which a contemporary critic claimed that Beethoven must have been drunk when he wrote it. Mozart Horn CtosEver hear of someone named Dennis Brain?Mozart Piano Ctos 14, &21-25 inclusiveThen there's a gal named Lili Kraus.Glazunov The Seasons.Nice work. Except for one PIT, I have a weak spot for Russian music.
Come to think of it, most of these spring to mind for non-musical reasons.Funny how the mind works.

[danscope]

Hi, If you can find it, there is a wonderful recording by Los Indios Tabajaras,
(Two brazilians ) called Casually Classic . It contains some superb guitar work for two,..including the most excellent " Waltz of the Flowers) from the
Nutcracker . And surprisimgly, they did the "Third Man Theme" as well!
A little light music after a long day.
Best regards, Dan

[peteshimmon]

Have a few items still to mention. Next..

Flos Campi, suite, Vaughan Williams.

Hear the best Vaughan Williams sound,
22 minutes with wordless chorus.
"one of the composers most striking
sensuous scores" it says in the notes.

[toejam]

Maksutov said:

Ever hear of someone named Dennis Brain?

Have two 33&1/3 vinyls of him. Barry Tuckwell's good too.

[soylentgreen]

Have a few items still to mention. Next..

Flos Campi, suite, Vaughan Williams.

Hear the best Vaughan Williams sound,
22 minutes with wordless chorus.
"one of the composers most striking
sensuous scores" it says in the notes.

That makes me think of an old obscure favorite of mine from Elgar. It doesn't seem to be among his more well known works as it doesn't include the words Pomp, Circumstance or Nimrod.

It's called Sospiri. A melancholy little work for orchestra with harp and organ. I believe he wrote it in response to the death of an old friend...the number 2 slot in "Top Ten Motivations For Writing A Classical Piece" right behind 'following an opium fever' and just ahead of 'on the occasion of kissing royal brass'! ;)

One of the NY areas premier classical radio stations, WQXR, played it once when I was around 10 and I was instantly smitten. Never heard it on the air again...or anywhere for that matter. My Boult(whom I consider the top Elgar fellow) recording never falls too far off the playlist.

Mak may be familiar with this work as it seems to me that anyone I've come across that knows the work tended to be a Mahlerite. Or is that Mahlerian?

[peteshimmon]

Well I will certainly look out for that now
soylentgreen. You heard it once and still
remember heh. Things have to grow on me:)
And you have made me bring forward another
Elgar work. 47 years ago if off school, I
would be at home with afternoon television
which was schools material. Between programs
they filled in with scenic views and music.
It was years before I learned it was Nursery
Suite by Elgar. (geddit?) And it was always
the first movement Aubade. It is a lovely
dreamy piece. It was written for the two
royal princesses Elizabeth and Margaret.
They always got the best. Number 3 on your
list! And so..

Nursery Suite, Elgar.

Seven movements, 25 minutes total. Sound
pictures of some dolls in the nursery.
The dramatic "The Wagon Passes" needed
and immeadiate encore at the premier.

[Maksutov]

That makes me think of an old obscure favorite of mine from Elgar. It doesn't seem to be among his more well known works as it doesn't include the words Pomp, Circumstance or Nimrod.

It's called Sospiri. A melancholy little work for orchestra with harp and organ. I believe he wrote it in response to the death of an old friend...the number 2 slot in "Top Ten Motivations For Writing A Classical Piece" right behind 'following an opium fever' and just ahead of 'on the occasion of kissing royal brass'! ;)

One of the NY areas premier classical radio stations, WQXR, played it once when I was around 10 and I was instantly smitten. Never heard it on the air again...or anywhere for that matter. My Boult(whom I consider the top Elgar fellow) recording never falls too far off the playlist.

Mak may be familiar with this work as it seems to me that anyone I've come across that knows the work tended to be a Mahlerite. Or is that Mahlerian?It's a good antidote to the patriotic marches, for sure. The person it's dedicated to (Reed) lived for quite a while after Elgar died, so if it's a memorial piece, it must have been someone else.

Lots of Vaughan Williams influence in there. Or is it the other way around?

I prefer "Mahlerite". That's the term I use for my Mahler website.

BTW, what are the other seven for the "Top Ten"? :)

[GeorgeLeRoyTirebiter]

Elgar's best known work probably should be his Cello Concerto in E minor, but, alas, it isn't.

danscope mentioned guitars, so I'll toss in Concierto de Aranjuez by Joaquín Rodrigo, and Roberto Sierra's Folías (a fairly recent work).

[Serenitude]

Nothing can calm me like spinning 'Caoineadh na Mara - Amen' from Mary MacLaughlin and William Coulter. So serene.

[mike alexander]

Maybe not in such exalted company, but I really enjoy listening to big band numbers: "Opus One", "Sing, Sing, Sing", "In the Mood", "Take the 'A' Train" come to mind.

[Delvo]

Where would you go to find CDs (or even tapes) of little-known pieces, if such recordings even exist at all? When I was in college, we played two movements of a suite unhelpfully called "Medieval Suite" by Nelson, the movements being named "Homage to Leonin" and "Homage to Perotin". I loved both, but I've never heard the rest, and searching the music sources I'm familiar with online only yields the individual movements in a couple of anthologies (and even those were hard to find, impossible to hear samples of in one case, and apparently a duplicate title with an unrelated piece in another case). I can't find a recording of the whole suite...

[Maksutov]

Where would you go to find CDs (or even tapes) of little-known pieces, if such recordings even exist at all?Two sources for musical rarities are the Berkshire Record Outlet (http://www.berkshirerecordoutlet.com/) and the Musical Heritage Society (http://www.musicalheritage.com/cgi-bin/mhs).

BRO has very reasonable shipping charges and a huge catalog of rare stuff at very reasonable prices. Some CDs are as low as $1-$2.

MHS makes up for relatively low prices with their S&H, but if you have patience they occasionally have free shipping. MHS requires a free membership plus a good chunk of their stuff is reissues. Just remember to cancel your "Recording of Distinction" every month if you don't want it. This can be done at their website, therefore no postage (41¢ now).

Amazon has some interesting stuff, a lot of it from associated companies and private sellers (often $$$).

Forget about BMG Classical Music Services, a ghost of their former selves.

[peteshimmon]

Another one, certainly not obscure but it
induces a marvellous feeling. I thought the
stanger in paradise theme was in there but
think I am confusing with something else.

Sheherazade, Rimsky-Korsakov.

Four movements about 44 minutes total.
Supposedly inspired by Arabian Nights
though not confirmed. But it gives some
imagery to the music.

[Maksutov]

Another one, certainly not obscure but it
induces a marvellous feeling. I thought the
stanger in paradise theme was in there but
think I am confusing with something else.You were. That's from the "Polovetsian Dances" from the opera Prince Igor by Borodin. Stolen from to make the Broadway musical Kismet. Sheherazade, Rimsky-Korsakov.

Four movements about 44 minutes total.
Supposedly inspired by Arabian Nights
though not confirmed. But it gives some
imagery to the music.Definintely from the 1001 Arabian Nights: Scheherazade told the tales.

The Sultan was ticked off at his faithless wife and would marry a new virgin every night, while (what else?) beheading the previous one. Old Scher somehow winds up married to the Sultan. She keeps her master from executing her by telling tales every night until he falls asleep or the Sun rises, whichever comes first. Finally, after 1001 tales of adventure and lessons learned (and a few children), the Sultan realizes she's something special. He not only grants her clemency, but makes her his Queen.

Great music. I really like the ending of the "The Kalendar Prince". It evokes an impression of times long past.

[peteshimmon]

Thanks a lot Mak! Will look that out. Another
sea theme you might know, Where corals lie.
Has very nice tune and invokes feeling of
times past as well. But that might be just
me and my memories.

[Eta C]

Well, Mak beat me to Mahler, as is only appropriate. Next year the National Symphony is performing #'s 2 and 6 during its season and I plan to be there for both.

Allow me to add some Schostokovich to the mix.

Symphonies:

4: Very disturbing, but powerful. Definitely not easy listining. DSCH wrote it in the 30's but witheld performance until after Stalin's death.

5: Probably his most accessable symphony.

9: The authorities wanted a post-war apotheosis of Stalin. They got this light, almost comic piece. They were not amused.

10: His greatest. A strong powerful work in all respects. The scherzo is one of the great brutal pieces of music. Generally regarded as a portrait of Stalin.

13: Babi Yar. Nothing else needs be said

I'd also add in any of his string quartets. Again not easy listening. Number 8 is so sad and dark that it can make you want to crawl into a hole and die. Supposedly DSCH originally intended it to be his last work as he was going to commit suicide soon after. Fortunately, he didn't.

Speaking of DSCH, Mahler was one of his favorite composers. When asked which of Mahler's symphonies was his favorite he listed all nine, with Das Lied thrown in for good measure.

[peteshimmon]

To keep the bull rolling..

Le Boeuf sur le Toit, Milhaud.

19.5 minutes of some excitement.

[Maksutov]

Thanks a lot Mak! Will look that out. Another
sea theme you might know, Where corals lie.
Has very nice tune and invokes feeling of
times past as well. But that might be just
me and my memories.Elgar's Sea Pictures. Heard it live (piano version) back in the 1960s in NYC.

What is it about British composers and the sea? They go together quite often and well. This piece, Britten's Peter Grimes and the famous Four Sea Interludes, Vaughan Williams' First Symphony A Sea Symphony (with verses by Walt Whitman) and opera Riders To the Sea, Tintagel by Bax, Bridge's The Sea, and many more.

Then there are the non-British composers who were nevertheless moved to write descriptive pieces about the isles. The first that comes to mind is The Hebrides overture by Mendelssohn. Plus there're Korngold's scores for The Sea Hawk and Captain Blood (Irish but lived in England IIRC), having to do with British naval exploits.

Maybe living on an island and the navy being an integral part of British life may have had something to do with it.

[mike alexander]

Speaking of Mendelssohn, I like his incidental music for 'A Midsummer Night's Dream'. Milton Cross summed it up for me perfectly when he wrote: "Four notes... and you are in fairyland."

[toejam]

Poulenc: Sextet for wind quintet & piano in C major:; Trio for oboe, bassoon & piano.

Mak
Would you post a link to your Mahler website?

[Serenitude]

The album "Autobahn" from Kraftwerk, especially side 2. At the time, there was no such phenomena as "Techno", and Kraftwerk were composers of what they termed "Industrial Classical".

Also, any of the synth works of Wendy Carlos, especially the "Tron" soundtrack ;)

[peteshimmon]

!992 and there is a bad recession. People are
struggling with bad debts and negative equity.
Our new radio station, Classic FM plays excerts
from a new CD by the London Sinfonietta. Copies
then keep walking out of the shops. I read
about this in the papers and was curious. So
I put a tape in the midi system and tuned to
Classic ready to record. By some alchemy I
chose the night they played it complete. And I
came to understand.
Henryk Gorecki composed it in 1976 based on
memories of the terrible events in World War
two. And people found it a comfort for their
owm, much much smaller sorrows. It is like
a big warm cloak to wrap yourself in and Dawn
Upshaws marvellous singing seems to wash any
angst out, at least temporally. so..

Symphony No 3, Gorecki.

Three movements, 55 minutes total.

[Serenitude]

Whenever I need a smile, I refer to the works of Johan Gambolputty de von Ausferscheplendenschlittercrasscrenbonfrieddiggerd ingledangledongledunglebursteinvonknackerthrashera pplebangerhorwitzticolensicgranderknottyspelltinkl egrandlichgrumblemeyerspelter of Ulm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k7JPCgfe8A

[Maksutov]

Whenever I need a smile, I refer to the works of Johan Gambolputty de von Ausferscheplendenschlittercrasscrenbonfrieddiggerd ingledangledongledunglebursteinvonknackerthrashera pplebangerhorwitzticolensicgranderknottyspelltinkl egrandlichgrumblemeyerspelter of Ulm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k7JPCgfe8AThose who know him well call him "JacK".

[Maksutov]

Poulenc: Sextet for wind quintet & piano in C major:; Trio for oboe, bassoon & piano.

Mak
Would you post a link to your Mahler website?Here you go. (http://www.geocities.com/mahleritewebsite/index.html)

It's still being reassembled after good old GeoCities decided to eliminate the address it had been at since 1998. I need to update a bunch of links, add the material that was lost, and continue to notify everyone who linked to it re its new URL. BTW, it's been on the web since 1996.

[ABR.]

Maksutov,

Thanks for posting the link to the Mahler website and also for the suggested listening sequences (further up the list). I intend to try those if and when I find a turntable since I only have the complete symphonies in LP format. In the meantime, I listened to CDs of Symphonies #1 and #5 as well as Das Lied von der Erde yesterday afternoon. It's been awhile and I'd forgotten how much I enjoyed Mahler.

I guess I should add some more music here. I haven't heard anyone mention Camille Saint-Saëns as yet. How about the Symphony #3 and Danse Macabre?

[toejam]

Maksutov

Many thanks for the link. Fascinating. Will explore it at leisure later.

[Lord Jubjub]

Some of the more obscure stuff on my top-rated list in my iTunes:

Kurdish Dance from Katchaturian's Gayne Ballet
12 Variations on "Ah vous dirai-je maman" by Mozart (Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star)
G Major Toccata by Chip Davis (of Mannheim Steamroller fame)
Most of Grieg's Peer Gynt suites 1 and 2.

[peteshimmon]

This is an item I came to like due to an Open
University program some 25 years ago. The
first fifteen minutes showed how the piece was
composed and the last ten minutes had a full
performance (by the Nash Ensemble). It is..

Introduction and Allegro, Ravel.

Featuring Harp, Flute, Clarinet and String
Quartet. 10 minutes. Seems quietly reflective.

[Maksutov]

One rather unknown composer I really like is Franz Berwald. His four symphonies are extraordinary works, innovative, with unique structures, a nervous tension that seems to anticipate Mahler, and a fresh early Romantic atmosphere of creativity that is wonderfully inventive and free of the clichés with which Schumann et al would later infect this genre.

His Symphonie sérieuse (#1) and Symphonie singulière (#3) are remarkable works.

[Nicolas]

Possibly one to look out for, releasing in november (12th IIRC):

Mike Oldfield - Music of the Spheres. His first classical album (ignoring The Orchestral Tubular Bells), made in cooperation with Karl Jenkins.

Oldfield himself plays only all acoustic guitars and possibly some piano parts on the recording. The album was recorded in the Abbey Road studios, performed by a 76 piece orchestra and choir. Lang Lang is featured on the grand piano. Hayley Westenra releases her voice on multiple parts of this composition. The album totals 45 minutes, divided in 2 parts (but split in more titles, they flow into each other though).

As you can expect from Mike Oldfield, the album is romantic and not shy of climaxes. It takes multiple listenings to get really into it, but now I love it. It has plenty of Tubular Bells references in the first part, which was not a necessity for me but apparently Oldfield wanted that and he got away with it nicely :-). There's also some tiny references to for example Guitars, but those are only for those really into his back catalogue. Sometimes he gets a bit close to anonymous sountrack tricks (the famous drawer of soundtrack chords, Maksutov ;)), but luckily the majority of the album is more original than that.

My system has somewhat overly vivid tweeters at high volumes, which makes the brass instruments in this recording not always a pleasure to listen to loud. I must add that my erm copy does not represent the CD release in quality, so that may also be different in the real release. I assume the clipping will be gone in the full release too. Anyway it's a good recording, the things I complain about are due to my system and my copy.

[danscope]

Elgar's best known work probably should be his Cello Concerto in E minor, but, alas, it isn't.

danscope mentioned guitars, so I'll toss in Concierto de Aranjuez by Joaquín Rodrigo, and Roberto Sierra's Folías (a fairly recent work).

Hi, Thanks for the tip. I shall find them.
Best regards, Dan

[danscope]

Those who know him well call him "JacK".

I think he is a friend of Bill Brassky ! :)

[peteshimmon]

Thanks Nicolas I look forward to Oldfields
latest wonder. I remember his performance
at Edinburgh Castle some years ago. Those
pipers trooping on for a small part. And it
worked. I forgot to mention that I suspect
the main theme of Goreckis third symphony
was borrowed at the end of the film The
Trueman Show. Now another small item..

Dance of the Blessed spirits. Christoph
Willibald Gluck.

From some opera, 6.75 minutes. Just right
for the close of day. And love that name!

[Maksutov]

Maybe not in such exalted company, but I really enjoy listening to big band numbers: "Opus One", "Sing, Sing, Sing", "In the Mood", "Take the 'A' Train" come to mind.Pretty sure I have recordings of everything Glenn Miller committed to shellac.

One piece I've always gotten a kick out of is "Flying Home" (by Miller and others, notably Goodman/Hampton). Man, the cats laying down those grooves had to be on something. It gets wilder as the end approaches.

Really reaching back, another favorite is Cab Calloway and "Reefer Man". Smokin', baby!

Then there's "Holiday for Strings" as performed by Miller and the Army Air Force Band. Wow!

[Maksutov]

[edit]"Adagio for Strings" arranged by Samuel Barber...Not only did he arrange it, he wrote it (as part of his String Quartet, Op. 11).though I prefer the choral version from Angus Dei.Great piece by PDQ Bach.

Missa Hilarious, S. N2O
Yriekay
Gloria
Credo
Sanctus
Angus DeiThe words for the Angus Dei are quite inspiring:Angus Dei! Angus Dei!
She looks so nice just standing there all covered with a dew.
Angus Dei! Angus Dei!
She's the prettiest cow I've ever seen and I have seen a few.
Angus Dei! Angus Dei!
I have to make it through the week as best as I know how.
Angus Dei! Angus Dei!
I see her every Sunday morning, she's my sacred cow.
Angus Dei! Angus Dei!
Angus Dei! Angus Dei!
Angus Dei! Angus Dei!

[Maksutov]

Well, Mak beat me to Mahler, as is only appropriate. Next year the National Symphony is performing #'s 2 and 6 during its season and I plan to be there for both.I'm sure Fischer's rendition of the Second will be wonderful. It's hard to go wrong with this music.

Meanwhile I need to write a letter to Slatkin to make sure he's going to present a proper version of the Mahler Sixth. The revisionist scores that are current disembowel the work. Allow me to add some Schostokovich to the mix.

Symphonies:

4: Very disturbing, but powerful. Definitely not easy listining. DSCH wrote it in the 30's but witheld performance until after Stalin's death.My favorite Shosty symphony. I first heard it via the Ormandy/Philadeplphia recording back in 1963. Incredible, inventive work. Lots of Mahler influence, especially the opening of the third movement. The orchestration is very tight, reminds me of Mahler's Seventh. That two timpani ostinato at the climax is amazing. Then I'm sure John Barry stole whole chucks of this for his James Bond movie music. 5: Probably his most accessable symphony.And his real musical joke, not the Ninth. There's practically no polyphonic writing in here at all. The whole piece, although quite effective, has been "dumbed down" so that even morons like Stalin could listen to it. It's like Tchaikovsky writing a Shostakovich symphony. All melody and accompaniment, quite operatic, but not symphonic. Dmitri had to be laughing. 9: The authorities wanted a post-war apotheosis of Stalin. They got this light, almost comic piece. They were not amused.Shostakovich sarcasm very well refined. Love the Shosty rhythm in the snare drum during the first movement. The false ending of the Finale is a final nose-thumbing.10: His greatest. A strong powerful work in all respects. The scherzo is one of the great brutal pieces of music. Generally regarded as a portrait of Stalin.Very unsettling work. The end has been described as the lifting off of a great burden.13: Babi Yar. Nothing else needs be saidBack when WQXR in NYC was running contests I won a copy of the Ormandy recording of this. I already had the bootlegged Everest recording from 1966. Shostakovich's return from the dead world of the Twelfth.

For me, the second favorite is the Fifteenth. Its feeling of finality is very affecting.

Plus it's as if Dmitri's symphonic muse has returned 100%.

The Mahler quote in the first movement is spot on and the orchestration is incredible. Some music critics have written reams about the quotes, especially the William Tell Overture one, wondering why Shostakovich would reference "The Lone Ranger". To me he didn't. I doubt that in the Soviet Union much was known about that particular TV show. Instead it's obvious Shostakovich was drawn to that music due to its use of his favorite rhythmic pattern, two eight notes followed by a quarter note, over and over.

The wistfulness and irony of the final passages are not soon forgotten.

Then there's his Sixth. The progression from Largo to Allegro to Presto seems a microcosm of Shostakovich's musical tendencies (as well as his personality). The various solo woodwind cadenzas in the Largo seem to derive from Das Lied. Wonderful music all the way through.

The First is a remarkable work, even more so for a very young composer. It stands with the Sibelius First as a great start and another example of what a Tchaikovsky symphony would have sounded like if PIT knew how to write a symphony.I'd also add in any of his string quartets. Again not easy listening. Number 8 is so sad and dark that it can make you want to crawl into a hole and die. Supposedly DSCH originally intended it to be his last work as he was going to commit suicide soon after. Fortunately, he didn't.No, the cigarettes took care of that.

That Eighth Quartet: wow! Good thing the apparatchiks didn't listen to chamber music. Speaking of DSCH, Mahler was one of his favorite composers. When asked which of Mahler's symphonies was his favorite he listed all nine, with Das Lied thrown in for good measure.A man of good taste. Plus an heir to Mahler's heritage, along with Berg, Hindemith, Schoenberg, Zemlinsky, Britten, Prokofiev (despite his Parisian affectations), Vaughan Williams, and many others.

[Delvo]

...And his real musical joke, not the Ninth. There's practically no polyphonic writing in here at all. The whole piece, although quite effective, has been "dumbed down" so that even morons like Stalin could listen to it... Dmitri had to be laughing.The attitude of this part of the post shows exactly how the world of classical/symphonic/chamber/whatever music has managed to self-destruct as a form of entertainment, rendering itself so unpopular and even stigmatized with the general public.

[Serenitude]

That reads to me like a crack on Stalin, not a crack on the general public, mate ;)

[toejam]

Let's not get too serious:

Shostakovich Piano Cto # 2.

[Frog march]

Prince of the Pagodas, by Benjamin Britten.

It's a ballet but I've only heard it on LP. It's magical.

[Maksutov]

The attitude of this part of the post shows exactly how the world of classical/symphonic/chamber/whatever music has managed to self-destruct as a form of entertainment, rendering itself so unpopular and even stigmatized with the general public.That reads to me like a crack on Stalin, not a crack on the general public, mate ;)Exactly right, Serenitude. The general Russian public really enjoyed Shostakovich's music. His opera Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District was a hit until Stalin attended a performance and wound up seated near the brass, which as with all orchestral Shostakovich, played a very busy and loud part in the proceedings. Stalin, music expert that he was, took exception and, IIRC, the opera and Shostakovich were denounced the next day in Pravda.

Delvo, Shostakovich was not writing pop music, he writing symphonic music, which is another genre entirely. Real symphonic music since the days of Hadyn and Mozart typically includes a lot of polyphonic writing, even such things as fugues in which the counterpoint can be ferocious, fascinating, and fabulous.

Nothing wrong with pop songs. My extensive Canned Heat collection (among others) attests to that. But there's more to music than simple A-B-A songs with melody/accompaniment built on tonic, dominant, and subdominant.

[Delvo]

The problem isn't the music; it's the attitude that anyone who doesn't like the same pieces that the person who's talking likes must just be too stupid to get it and the only way to get them to like it is to make it as stupid as they are.

[Maksutov]

The problem isn't the music; it's the attitude that anyone who doesn't like the same pieces that the person who's talking likes must just be too stupid to get it and the only way to get them to like it is to make it as stupid as they are.Huh?

Shostakovich dumbed down the Fifth to fit what the bureaucrats (under the direct control of Stalin) had declared in Pravda to be acceptable music. The bureaucrats had no idea what symphonic music was about (check out the history of not only Shostakovich, but also Prokofiev, Khachaturian, and Miaskovsky, among others) and where Shostakovich was going with his experiments and creatively. All they knew was what your typical bureaucrat knows. The artistic climate in the U.S.S.R. in those days was similar to an exhibit of paintings being judged by a panel of blind people.

That's what I was writing about. If you choose to project that into some kind of general statement about intelligence, then that's your prerogative. But that' s not what I wrote.

BTW, with the exception of the Seventh's first movement and the Twelfth, it's interesting to note how Shostakovich gradually worked back into the path he had set out on. Even more telling is how he used chamber music as his main outlet for originality.

[Eta C]

Shostakovich dumbed down the Fifth to fit what the bureaucrats (under the direct control of Stalin) had declared in Pravda to be acceptable music. The bureaucrats had no idea what symphonic music was about (check out the history of not only Shostakovich, but also Prokofiev, Khachaturian, and Miaskovsky, among others) and where Shostakovich was going with his experiments and creatively. All they knew was what your typical bureaucrat knows. The artistic climate in the U.S.S.R. in those days was similar to an exhibit of paintings being judged by a panel of blind people.

All of which makes more ironic his "subtitle" to the Fifth: A Soviet Artist's response to just criticism.

One needs to remember that Schostakovich's music had been banned since the Lady Macbeth incident. In the environment of the Soviet purges of the 1930's many of his friends and colleagues in the artistic community had been killed or vanished. He certainly expected that fate himself. Is it any wonder he witheld the Fourth symphony from performance? The Fifth was his "penance" so to speak. What's remarkable is that he still managed to produce a great piece of music while nominally toeing the Party line.

[peteshimmon]

I am not informed enougth to talk about
dumbing down but I can relate something
that annoyed me recently. Richard Addinsell
wrote much film music and some 52 years ago
he composed Southern Rhapsody for our new
regional television service. About 5 minutes
long it had a grand opening, very peaceful
and lyrical middle section and lively ending.
I heard it many times. My brother just
managed to get a recording on cassette 25
years ago when the franchise changed. But
he obtained a CD of Addinsells items
containing Rhapsody. So I listened to a good
copy and AAARRRGG...there was a BLASTED DRUM
BEAT in the lively section. That was not in
the original performance. What is it about
the modern World that needs this beat in
everything? It is like chips with everything
including afternoon sponge cake!

Anyway, something different..

1812 Overture, Tchaikovsky.

So familier you have not played it recently!
14.5 minutes and peaceful Easter hymm in
the middle. Dont go to sleep.

[danscope]

Hi, Isn't it dreadfull when these so-called- "editors" go into a piece of music and add or detract as per their own "taste" and bludgeon something original and beautiful?
A classic example is with the Beatles " Penny Lane" . The original, which was released as a demo only to top 40 radio stations as a single, had this wonderfull trumpet piece , and so expertly done, which fills the finish and is a great celebration of the horn. I think it was Phil Spector (?) who chopped it up for the re-release on the albumn..Magical Mystery Tour . Many many years later, an albumn called "Rarities" was released in which the original , un slashed by such barbarians, is again presented in it's original glory.
To some, a little thing. To others, abominable.
Yes, even modern rock has it's classical period and golden age. Room and time for all.

Best regards, Dan

[Nicolas]

This slashing is done on radio stations all the time. How often do they play the third solo on november rain? The second part of Metallica's One? The reprise in Child in Time?

Oooh it's more than 3:40!! *chop* Sometimes they even chop parts together, which makes the texts and buildup rubbish.

[peteshimmon]

I bought this on vinyl 37 years ago as the
main theme in the first movement had featured
in a television series. But a stylus in a
groove will never do justice to the strange
and quiet forth movement, Epilogue: Moderato.
Was it an impression of the wastelands after
the second World War? Anyway you need your
personal stereo with headphones to appreciate
it (CD or the latest gubbins).

Symphony No 6, Vaughan Williams.

4 movements, 34 minutes approx total.

[Maksutov]

[edit]Symphony No 6, Vaughan Williams.

4 movements, 34 minutes approx total.What a wonderful piece.

I have the original London FFRR LP, which includes a short statement by Vaughan Williams about the Boult performance, and where he congratulates the members of the orchestra as well as the lady harpist (how times have changed). I'll see if can post an MP3 of VW's short speech where it will be accessible to the BAUT.

The drum ostinato in the second movement is obsessive, the gallows humor of the third is macabre, and it then peters out into the piano/pianissimo desert of the fourth. One is reminded of Neptune by Holst, and Der Abschied and the final passages of the Ninth by Mahler. As VW said of the performance, it was "full of tension and meaning". A wonderful example of how music doesn't have to be LOUD in order to be overwhelming. I love the way it ends with those E Major/E Minor chords over the pizzicato strings. A good performance fades away such that one is not really sure what key the piece ends in.

This contemporary review (http://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Orchestral/PASC072.php) is a good one. I like the part where it talks about "a human cry lost in the cold of interstellar space."

Vaughan Williams eventually suggested a quotation from Act IV of Shakespeare's The Tempest as rubric for the music:We are such stuff
As dreams are made on; and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep.

[Maksutov]

Had the pleasure of listening to and watching the New York Philharmonic's opening concert for the 2007-2008 season a few evenings ago. All Dvořák program.

First the Carnival overture. A rousing start, most of the music is Allegro, brilliant and very Czech, but for me the heart of this work is its G Major middle section (in 3/4 or 3/2 time, I haven't read the score in a long time) where the woodwinds and lower strings sound as if they're coming from the deep woods surrounding the bright lights.

Then the Cello Concerto with Yo-Yo Ma. The best ever written for that instrument. Despite a few intonation problems and Maazel's changing rhythmic gears with a crunch sometimes, a very listenable performance. The last movement's coda/cadenza is hard not to perform movingly, with the Laast mich allein quotes as a memorial to Dvořák's love Josefina Kounicova (his sister-in-law) who died in 1895. When the coda starts, it's as if the concerto has moved to a different plane of expression. Incredible music.

The concert concluded with the Symphony No. 7, which used to be in the trio of the only Dvořák symphonies played. Fortunately that situation has long been remedied. What a fine, passionate work! That octave leap and descending minor second that start the Finale are unsettling and ingratiating at the same.

Good concert.

Meanwhile I visited the NYPO page to see what's coming up. Turns out Maazel will be presenting Mahler's Ninth in early June. Unfortunately the webpage notes for the concert contained a couple of serious errors re the Ninth. An email about these has yet to result in their correction. Perhaps I need to contact my friend Mr. Bookspan to get the webpage concert notes properly revised.

BTW, thank you, PBS for allowing me to make a nice DVD of my DVR recording.

[Maksutov]

[edit]A classic example is with the Beatles "Strawberry Fields" . The original, which was released as a demo only to top 40 radio stations as a single, had this wonderfull trumpet piece , and so expertly done, which fills the finish and is a great celebration of the horn. I think it was Phil Spector (?) who chopped it up for the re-release on the albumn..Magical Mystery Tour . Many many years later, an albumn called "Rarities" was released in which the original , un slashed by such barbarians, is again presented in it's original glory.
To some, a little thing. To others, abominable.
Yes, even modern rock has it's classical period and golden age. Room and time for all.

Best regards, DanI remember back in early 1967 first hearing "Penny Lane". It had a piccolo trumpet flourish right at the end as well as earlier. But then later recordings had only the trumpet solo embedded in the music that was just before the final "Penny Lane!" declaration followed by Ringo's crescendo cymbal roll (with other George Martin-added sounds).

Guess I'll have to revisit "Strawberry Fields".

BTW, back then I immediately caught on that the last part of that recording was a tape being slowed down. Funny how "Strawberry Fields" played that way sounds like "I buried Paul"...

[danscope]

Hi, Sorry...it was indeed "Penny Lane ". I got my twords wisted.
But...you got my point. If you listen to the albumn 'Rarities ', you will hear the wonderful original ....unmolested by the likes of editors.
I shall correct my original post and remove the error.
Many thanks.,

Dan

[peteshimmon]

Not to worry Dan, I think most of us made the
correction automatically as Beatles history
is known pretty widely:) And that VW speech
is on my vinyl Mak, you reminded me. My CD
is Andre Previn with the LSO. Let me complete
the VW score here. (the ones I mention that
is). There is bright Spring Sunshine along
a country lane with ploughed arable fields
either side. This evokes the scene..

The Lark Ascending, Vaughan Williams.

16 minutes of beautiful violin music.

[peteshimmon]

I will wrap this up by listing four more items
I like.

Carmina Burana, Orff. 65 minutes.

Karelia Suite, Sibelius, 17 minutes.

La Calinda, Delius, 4.35 minutes.

Three Elizabeths Suite, Coates. 21 minutes.

I hope this has been a useful thread for some
who did not know these items. They work for
me and Maksutov has given the technical
reasons why some work for him:) If I might
choose a favourite it would be The Firebird.
It might just be a good recording (Pierre
Monteux, Paris Conservatoire Orchestra) but
I hear class in every note composed. Dont
ask me why!

[Maksutov]

[edit]Symphony no 1, "classical" Prokofiev.

Just 4 movements, quite short, total about
14 minutes. It is a very refreshing sound
that cheers you up. The Finale is quick and
urgent. And it is relaxing.That last bit caught my eye.* My current edition of the BMG classical, semi-classical, light classical, and semi-pro catalog then reminded me why.

How did classical music come to be identified with "relaxing"? Sure, some of it is slow and peaceful, but a huge chunk of it isn't. Except for parts of the Andante moderato, I'd defy anyone to find Mahler's Sixth relaxing. Hair-raising, pulse-quickening, tension-laden, downright horrific and scary, and dramatic to the nth degree describe the rest of the symphony.

The same general consideration goes for Stravinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps, Vaughan Williams' Fourth, Beethoven's Seventh, Shostakovich's Fourth, Copland's Billy the Kid and Rodeo, anything by Varèse, anything by Ruggles, Ives' magnificent Three Places in New England and his song The Cage, Berg's Drei Orchesterstücke, Hindemith's Symphony in E Flat, Mozart's Symphonies Nos. 40 and 41 (especially the Finales), Strauss' Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche, Tod und Verklärung, Also Sprach Zarathustra, and Eine Alpensinfonie, and a long list of others works.

I wouldn't call any of these relaxing. Instead they are exciting, exhilirating, and fascinating, requiring one's attention in order to understand what the composers were getting at. None would qualify as background music at a cocktail party.

Speaking of cocktail parties, yuckie weekends, and "quiet times together", here's an example (from the BMG catalog) of the sales approach that's probably responsible for this distorted view of classical music:

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/5832/relaxingclassicsry0.th.jpg (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relaxingclassicsry0.jpg)

Combine that with infomercials pushing the same "relaxing" collections and I guess after a while many people will tend to believe relaxation is what classical music is all about.

It ain't.

BTW, that page is kind of funny in another way. The six collections that loudly proclaim "[something or other] ADAGIOS" contain the following: Dvorak's New World Symphony, in which the slow movement is a Largo, Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony, in which the slow movement is an Andante molto mosso, Debussy's Claire de Lune, which is marked Andante très expressif, Saint-Saëns' The Swan, which has only Cantibile as a tempo marking, and so on. A lot of non-adagio stuff in there for collections so titled.

*Not picking on you, pete. Instead, your apt word choice initiated a thought process, quite a feat for this tired old gray matter.

[Disinfo Agent]

How could I forget La Mer, Debussy?Another fantastic treat from Debussy is La Cathedrale Engloutie...one of the most haunting works for solo piano ever, IMO.Not strictly classical, but I was listening to Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune just today.

Also nice: Erik Satie's Gymnopédies.

Anything by Chopin is usually uplifting. Or, of course, Mozart.

I'm not much into opera, but I do like Gregorian chant.

[Maksutov]

Not strictly classical, but I was listening to Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune just today.That's strictly classical if played per Debussy's score. About as laid back apiece as ever existed. Also nice: Erik Satie's Gymnopédies.Ah, the Blood, Sweat, and Tears theme song! Anything by Chopin is usually uplifting.Listening to his Prelude in E Minor, Op. 28, No. 4 will cure you of that view. http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/566/iconwink6tn.gif Here's the whole thing. (http://www.8notes.com/scores/9765.asp?ftype=gif) But you did say "usually".

Or, of course, Mozart.Try the Masonic Funeral Music, the Requiem, or a really forceful performance of the 40th Symphony, and you'll find WAM's not all Eine Kleine Nachtmusik!

I'm not much into opera, but I do like Gregorian chant.Well performed chant demonstrates that a capella monophony doesn't always equal monotony. :)

[Nicolas]

Speaking of cocktail parties, yuckie weekends, and "quiet times together", here's an example (from the BMG catalog) of the sales approach that's probably responsible for this distorted view of classical music:

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/5832/relaxingclassicsry0.th.jpg (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=relaxingclassicsry0.jpg)

Combine that with infomercials pushing the same "relaxing" collections and I guess after a while many people will tend to believe relaxation is what classical music is all about.

It ain't.

BTW, that page is kind of funny in another way. The six collections that loudly proclaim "[something or other] ADAGIOS" contain the following: Dvorak's New World Symphony, in which the slow movement is a Largo, Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony, in which the slow movement is an Andante molto mosso, Debussy's Claire de Lune, which is marked Andante très expressif, Saint-Saëns' The Swan, which has only Cantibile as a tempo marking, and so on. A lot of non-adagio stuff in there for collections so titled.

*Not picking on you, pete. Instead, your apt word choice initiated a thought process, quite a feat for this tired old gray matter.

I had quite a LOL when looking at that page. Below all these CD's with "the most relaxing pompom album...ever!" there was a commercial banner:

"the hardest vibrating ringtone...ever!" I'm not making this up. :D

btw if you listen -with attention- to Dvorak's 9th as a whole, I don't find it particularly relaxing. Beautiful, yes. Purely relaxing, no. It has parts with quite some intensity and emotion in it, provokes active images and doesn't make me particularly ultra-relaxed after a full listening. It's more like a classical Amarok to me. :) I guess these "relaxing" CD's just pick the slow, gentle bits and pull them completely out of context?

[peteshimmon]

Ah well...perhaps I should have said "calming".
And I might have been thinkng of the second
movement. Many of our "heavy" newspapers have
indeed been giving away freebee CDs featuring
relaxing classical! It fits much of the time:)
Nice bit just now on television about a
battery chicken farm where the workers radio
accidentally got tuned to Classic FM.
Apparently the "relaxing" music upped the
productivity of the Hens! Hope some
Supermarket executives listened. I joked to
a checkout lady a few weeks ago about needing
earmuffs to block out the acoustic pollution
coming from the overhead speakers. "Well what
about us having to sit here and take it" she
said. And I thought it was on for the
benifit of the shop staff!

Some thirty years ago I was reading something
with the radio on to your hundred best tunes
or something. Something came to an end and I
came out of a small trance. It was Canon by
Pachelbel. Not the way I spelled it at the
time scribbling it down. Why name it after
ordnance I wondered. It is what you tended to
notice about some classics, the calming effect.

[Maksutov]

[edit]Symphony no 1, "classical" Prokofiev.

Just 4 movements, quite short, total about
14 minutes. It is a very refreshing sound
that cheers you up. The Finale is quick and
urgent. And it is relaxing.In my earlier list of non-relaxing classical music, I forgot to include the most obvious antithesis to Prokofiev's Classical Symphony (Symphony No. 1). That is of course Prokofiev's Symphony No. 2, which the composer described as being made out of "iron and steel", and is probably one of the most unnerving, subversive, and diabolical pieces of music ever written.

Good thing it premiered in Paris rather than Moscow.

[Maksutov]

While preserving various LPs with my digital recorder, I got to the Ramor Quartet's readings of the six Bartók string quartets, recorded by Vox a long time ago.

Bartók seems to be somewhat neglected today, although he was lionized during the 1950s and early 60s. The warhorses we all know, the Concerto for Orchestra, Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta (from which more than I can count Hollywood "composers" have stolen), The Miraculous Mandarin suite, the concerti, and, for anyone who has ever advanced in their piano technique, Mikrokosmos.

The last piece of the Ramor set is of course the String Quartet No. 6. Each of the movements begins with an introduction titled Mesto, which, to my ears, sounds like a paraphrase of the viola beginning of Mahler's Tenth. The first three movements are somewhat traditional in their form. The second is to me the best, with some really asymmetrical rhythmic structures, and a "trio" that sounds like Magyar guitars.

But in the fourth movement the Mesto intro takes over and subsumes the entire piece, leading to a chilling conclusion that rivals those of Berg's Lyric Suite (Largo desolato), Vaughan Williams' Symphony No. 6 (Epilogue: Moderato) (I wonder if old Rafe ever heard the Bartók, the similarities are remarkable), and the termini of Mahler's Das klagende Lied and the Sixth.

The last notes sound as a paraphrase of the last four notes of Mahler's Ninth, only with even less resolution than the aforementioned piece.

The Ramor's way with this music is wonderful, very Magyar, and quite faithful to the composer's scores. Glad to get it digitally recorded after buying it 41 years ago.

[Maksutov]

Celebrated Beethoven's 237th birthday by playing the even-numbered symphonies.

Love that Symphony No. 2 in D, Op. 36.

A lot of folks think the Eroica had the first Scherzo, but, nope, it was the 2nd. There is one passage in there that Brahms must have been really fond of, since it affected a lot his orchestration. Plus the intro to the first movement contains germs of themes that bore fruit in LvB's later, more famous symphony in d.

The beautiful and memorable Larghetto is yet another example of that seminal motif "How Dry I Am".

The Allegro molto Finale really moves along, and has some fine, mysterious tremolo sections for the strings that sound like sped-up Bruckner.

The main section of the first movement, Allegro con brio, always brings back memories of my college days. At Columbia one of my fellow jocks was in trouble. He was barely making the grade academically and had been taking an interdisciplinary class of the history of music in Western civilization. Some friends had told him it was a gut course.

The prof, being a sadist, decided that to pass the students would have to submit an original analysis of the Allegro con brio. This poor fellow, who was an essential component of the basketball team (the football team was beyond redemption), was musically inept and damn close to tone deaf.

So, to help the Lions with their season, I wrote the paper for him. But as I did I explained to him what I was doing, to the point where he sort of understood such ideas as fugato, alternation, inversion, sonata structure, key changes, etc. He passed and stayed on the BB team. I didn't charge him anything.

And a few weeks later I walked by his dorm room and hear the sounds of Beethoven's 2nd coming from within.

[peteshimmon]

Well OK Mak, I have just played my copy and
maybe another play will make it grow. I got
most of my classics on Naxos 18 years ago
when Woolies were doing a promotion. They were
£3.99 each and they kept giving me vouchers
for each one I bought with £2 towards the
next one. Thanks very much, I obtained over
100 of them. This Beethoven one had No 2 and 5.
It was one of half a dozen with the shrink wrap
still on but thats come off now:) Like most
I play nos 6,7 and 9 every so often. But 9 is
a waste on disc I think, wait for a live
happening on the box. It is an emotional
journey needing Orchestra, Chorus AND audience
for a full performance I feel.

[toejam]

The Beethoven 9 is very fine, except I have to use willpower to make myself listen to the choral part. A whole chorus yelling FREUDE!!! is too much like compulsory mental exercise of that Joy.
Most musiclovers I have said this to tell me there is something wrong with me. (I also cannot stand any Schubert lieder, love all the vocal parts of Mahler, hate the Halleluya chorus etc etc.)

[Eta C]

The prof, being a sadist, decided that to pass the students would have to submit an original analysis of the Allegro con brio. This poor fellow, who was an essential component of the basketball team (the football team was beyond redemption), was musically inept and damn close to tone deaf. Sort of like Theodore Roosevelt who, as I recall said that he knew two songs. One was "Yankee Doodle Dandy." The other wasn't.

The Beethoven 9 is very fine, except I have to use willpower to make myself listen to the choral part. A whole chorus yelling FREUDE!!! is too much like compulsory mental exercise of that Joy.
Most musiclovers I have said this to tell me there is something wrong with me. (I also cannot stand any Schubert lieder, love all the vocal parts of Mahler, hate the Halleluya chorus etc etc.)

An odd attitude give that Mahler's 2nd is pattered directly after LVB's 9th. I guess a whole chorus yelling "Auferstehn, Ja Auferstehn!" is less objectionable. Then there's the end of the 1st section of Mahler's 8th. To me, one doesn't even need to comprehend the words of that final "Glorial" to feel the same exhileration that LVB's 9th can bring. Yet, let me be the last to castigate someone on issues of taste.

Mak, I've got my tiks for the NSO's Mahler 6 in February. The concert with the second hasn't gone on sale yet. Should be two great concerts.

[Maksutov]

Sort of like Theodore Roosevelt who, as I recall said that he knew two songs. One was "Yankee Doodle Dandy." The other wasn't.According a number of biographies of Ives, that was Ulysses S. Grant. He made the remark shortly after commenting on the fine band he had just heard, which, it turned out, was led by Ives' father, George.An odd attitude give that Mahler's 2nd is pattered directly after LVB's 9th.I wouldn't call it "patter". http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/566/iconwink6tn.gif To me Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunaire is patter, albeit inspired and subversive patter.

BTW, Mahler sort of happened on a structure that superficially resembles LvB's Ninth. He had the first three movements completed and then ran into a "writer's block" which was only alleviated when he heard the Klopstock chorale at von Bülow's funeral. The Mahlerian irony here is, that's the same von Bülow for whom Mahler played what became the Allegro maestoso of the Second, but which he was still calling Totenfeier, a symphonic poem. A few minutes into his piano performance Mahler saw that von Bülow was covering his ears. He stopped and von Bülow remarked that "If that is music, then I know nothing about music!" Add the adjective "new" and he was correct. On the other hand, Brahms was a fan of the In ruhig fliessender Bewegung second movement.

Mahler felt the need for a short vocal section to act as a prelude to the vast Finale. Since then the alto solo Urlicht has been compared to the bass recitative that announces the voices in the LvB Ninth's Finale. However, unlike LvB, Mahler holds back on using the chorus until about 2/3 of the way through the Finale, which means the soprano waits until then to start singing. This caused Beverly Sills to often complain about Mahler disrespecting the soloists in his works. What she really meant was that she was used to being in the spotlight and resented having to wait so long before she could try to grab everyone's attention. Remember "Bubbles" rhymes with "troubles."
I guess a whole chorus yelling "Auferstehn, Ja Auferstehn!" is less objectionable. Then there's the end of the 1st section of Mahler's 8th. To me, one doesn't even need to comprehend the words of that final "Glorial" to feel the same exhileration that LVB's 9th can bring.Veni creator spiritus! I can still play back in my head the performance by Lenny et al for the opening of Philharmonic Hall back in September 1962. The acoustics sucked, the electronic organ was bass-heavy (BION), but nevertheless when those E Flat Major chords sounded and the double choruses shouted out the Raven's hymn to 4/4, then 3/4, then 2/4 time, as if Mahler couldn't wait to get going, what an experience! Hearing the whole Eighth a while later under Ozawa was unearthly. Yet, let me be the last to castigate someone on issues of taste.As Olin Downes (may he rot in pieces), the racist, couldn't read music, music critic of the New York Times back in the 30s to 50s, wrote in a letter to Schoenberg where Arnold was defending the beauty and form of Mahler's Seventh, "Chacun à son goût." Downes was as good at music criticism as he was at originality.
Mak, I've got my tiks for the NSO's Mahler 6 in February.Hope the folks buck the current PC Mahler trend and perform the symphony the way it was originally composed: exposition repeat in the Allegro energico, Scherzo then the Andante Moderato, and the third hammerschlag in the Finale. As I point out in an short essay in my Mahlerite Website, anything less and the symphony loses its wonderful, cohesive, almost classical structure, and also sounds emasculated.The concert with the second hasn't gone on sale yet. Should be two great concerts.Fer sure!

All of Mahler sounds best live, but the Second, Third, and Eighth really bring this fact home.

[Delvo]

I'd like to know the identity of this piece I've heard fragments of several times...

It's one of those "classics" that get used in commercials, movies (or at least the ads for them), and TV shows, so most people out there have probably heard part of it whether they know it or not... the kind of thing they put into music anthology collections for popular consumption such as Time-Life's "Classical Thunder" (except that it wasn't in that particular one; it's jus the only name I know of in that general type). I've heard it in not only fiction or ads for fiction, but also an ad for a TV show about military technology.

It's loud but not fast, with heavy percussion (possibly with a single note played by other instruments at the same time) on the first beat of each measure followed by a few beats dominated by a large chorus, then a rough repeat of that pattern again: loud instrumental first beat, then a few beats of mostly chorus. The mood/tone is dark and ominous but with some excitement or anticipation, like a call to arms.

Based on that description so far, you might be thinking "O Fortuna", from Carl Orff's "Carmina Burana", but no, it's not that one. It's the other one. :rolleyes: It seems to have four beats per measure, with the melody starting at the lowest note and moving up to the highest at the end of the measure, before dropping back to the low starting note again for the next cycle... but that cycle only repeats a few times per "phrase", with the end of a phrase switching to higher, longer notes in a synchopated pattern (changing on even-numbered beats).

Does that sound familiar?

[Maksutov]

[edit]Does that sound familiar?Sounds somewhat familiar but what I recreate in my head based on your description doesn't tie in with anything I know.

I don't listen to commercials (thank you mute button!) so I can't link it with a particular one. Could you be more specific re a particular commercial so that if I see it I'll give it a listen?

Plus, do you have access to musical score writing software? If so, a few bars of the rhythmic structure and melodic pattern would be helpful.

[peteshimmon]

I will throw off some ideas that might help.
A show about WW2 generals some years ago had
a good theme by a Russian composer. Not sure
who but I believe it goes with Romeo and
Juliet for some reason. The late Robert Farnon
composed many short items that film and
television drama used. His "zero to sixty" is
well know for building up tension.

Actually I was trying to pin down one sound for
years but my musical friend could not idntify
my humming over the phone. Then I turned on
the box and someone was describing how it
got him into music. The Humming Chorus from
Madam Butterfly. Got to wait two boring hours
for it in the opera and then it might be a duff
performance. Fortunately it is on a freebee I
now have:)