U.S. Annual Teacher Salaries

[sarongsong]

August , 2007
A look at average and beginning teacher salaries in each state for the 2004-2005 school year, the latest for which such figures are available...
San Jose Mercury News (http://www.mercurynews.com/search/ci_6658336?IADID=Search-www.mercurynews.com-www.mercurynews.com)Nationally:
Average.....47,602
Beginning...31,753

[danscope]

Hi, I have lived and shared the life of a 7th grade teacher for 35 years.
Trust me, most of the people that complain about what they think is a high salary would be weeping on the street curb and in need of a sedative by lunch time. If you do not have the patience of a Saint, you are not qualified.
Many good teachers take their sheep skin elsewhere and make more money.

Best regards, Dan

[LucasVB]

Hmm, and to think Brazilian teachers make around $15,000, with no raise for over 20 years. Damn.

[NEOWatcher]

Nationally:
Average.....47,602
Beginning...31,753
Is there something I should learn from this link?
I see a bunch of numbers, and I see variations by state. But; to me, I see no significance if it is not compared to both educational outcome and cost of living for the area.
Plus; there is such a vast difference between rural, suburban and urban salaries, I'm not sure that there's enough granularity.

[danscope]

And not much expectation of gratuity.

[Tucson_Tim]

As usual, Arizona is close to the bottom.

[tlbs101]

As usual, Arizona is close to the bottom.
...And here I thought NM would have AZ beat (e.g. lower). What a shocker!
.

[Tucson_Tim]

...And here I thought NM would have AZ beat (e.g. lower). What a shocker!
.

Yeah. Our states duke it out with Arkansas and Mississippi for the honor of being last.

[SeanF]

...And here I thought NM would have AZ beat (e.g. lower). What a shocker!
Yeah. Our states duke it out with Arkansas and Mississippi for the honor of being last.
Hmm. There are 20 states lower than Arkansas. Mississippi is the lowest of the four mentioned, and they're number 5.

SD's number one! Woo-hoo! :doh:

[Tucson_Tim]

Hmm. There are 20 states lower than Arkansas. Mississippi is the lowest of the four mentioned, and they're number 5.


Depends on the education-related stats selected. This was just teachers' salaries.

[farmerjumperdon]

Is there something I should learn from this link?
I see a bunch of numbers, and I see variations by state. But; to me, I see no significance if it is not compared to both educational outcome and cost of living for the area.
Plus; there is such a vast difference between rural, suburban and urban salaries, I'm not sure that there's enough granularity.

Agreed. It is not much more than an interesting list unless it can be tied to something. Are we getting what we pay for? Are wages in line with supply and demand? Are market forces at work or are teacher wages now more of a political than economic issue? Is there enough incentive to ensure a supply of trained teachers?

As an aside, benefits need to be accounted for also. Historically, teachers unions have negotiated very rich sets of benefits. That could be changing, but I know that in WI the #2 budget item for school financing (following the actual salaries) is benefits.

[SeanF]

Depends on the education-related stats selected. This was just teachers' salaries.
Yeah, the OP was about a list of teachers' salaries, your original comment was about the list of teachers' salaries, tlbs101's response was about teachers' salaries...don't know where I got the idea we were talking about teachers' salaries. ;)

[sarongsong]

...Is there enough incentive to ensure a supply of trained teachers?...There sure would be if there were an equitable way to place a "1" or a "2" in front of all those listed salaries! http://www.bautforum.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[pizzaguy]

I always thought that teachers in Michigan were overpaid.

This list confirms that.

[Gillianren]

I always thought that teachers in Michigan were overpaid.

This list confirms that.

What, in your opinion, is an appropriate salary for a teacher and how do you figure it?

[tdvance]

What, in your opinion, is an appropriate salary for a teacher and how to you figure it?

I'm not the one you asked, but the answer to the second one is "supply and demand". For the first, the answer is, whatever amount society is willing to pay to get the number an quality of teachers they want--it's a balance between two somewhat incompatible desires, large number of good teachers versus small amount of money spent. Only society itself can determine the balance it wants. (the current method of state agencies controlled by elected officials is an approximation to this; my opinion is some kind of voucher system would result in a better approximation to this by putting the decision in the parents' hands more directly).

Todd

[Spock Jenkins]

I always thought that teachers in Michigan were overpaid.

This list confirms that.

Would you want to teach in the city of Detroit? What kind of salary would it take to get you to change your mind?

I'm not one who thinks teachers are under paid or over paid. They are paid what the market will bear. I just get annoyed when they complain about their compensation level and/or benefits and expect sympathy from those of us working in non-union fields. What? You have a co-pay on your medical expenses for the first time? Well, welcome to the club. Enjoy your summer off - I'm looking forward to my three weeks vacation for the year.

I know, I know - if it's so great - why am I not teaching? Because I don't want to.

[Delvo]

Teachers aren't paid according to market forces, except maybe at private schools. The others are assigned a salary by a government, and governments tend to ignore markets, which is why they tend to spend money that they don't really have and go into debt and complain about not having enough money.

[farmerjumperdon]

I'm not the one you asked, but the answer to the second one is "supply and demand". For the first, the answer is, whatever amount society is willing to pay to get the number an quality of teachers they want--it's a balance between two somewhat incompatible desires, large number of good teachers versus small amount of money spent. Only society itself can determine the balance it wants. (the current method of state agencies controlled by elected officials is an approximation to this; my opinion is some kind of voucher system would result in a better approximation to this by putting the decision in the parents' hands more directly).

Todd

Bingo. You are worth what it costs to replace you with a person of the same skill and experience. That is how all wages should be decided. If you can be replaced with no loss in results, for less costs, then you are overpaid. Sounds cold, but it is the most effective and responsible model that I've ever heard of. In leiu of that, how does anybody else think a salary should be set in what is supposed to be a free market.

Things like worthiness, feeling good, etc are part of your personal decision in taking a job or not. They are not part of the equation for what is a fair salary for those that chose the profession.

[Tobin Dax]

I'm making a little more than the KY beginning rate, but I just have to say this: It's twice what I was making as a grad student. Granted, my expenses are a little higher, but I still have more spending money. It's a comfortable salary for a single guy, and it's working for me.

Salary and standard of living don't always match. It does depend on the area, and I would be worse off in Louisville than I am here, but I'd be even worse off in San Diego. :)

[danscope]

I'm not the one you asked, but the answer to the second one is "supply and demand". For the first, the answer is, whatever amount society is willing to pay to get the number an quality of teachers they want--it's a balance between two somewhat incompatible desires, large number of good teachers versus small amount of money spent. Only society itself can determine the balance it wants. (the current method of state agencies controlled by elected officials is an approximation to this; my opinion is some kind of voucher system would result in a better approximation to this by putting the decision in the parents' hands more directly).

Todd
"my opinion is some kind of voucher system would result in a better approximation to this by putting the decision in the parents' hands more directly)."

Dear Sir: The PARENTS got that decision making process the day they began dating.....fast forward to birthing children.......to..........
READING to and with your child. YES......you are the primary teacher.
If this job is done well and properly, your child has no problem getting an excellent education and is well suited to higher education.
Neglect that awesome responsibility and no amount of money from any source will save and shape your manufactured boomerang.
Parents are the neglected ingredient. Not vouchers and political spin.
I see many people nodding their heads.

Best regards, Dan

[farmerjumperdon]

"my opinion is some kind of voucher system would result in a better approximation to this by putting the decision in the parents' hands more directly)."

Dear Sir: The PARENTS got that decision making process the day they began dating.....fast forward to birthing children.......to..........
READING to and with your child. YES......you are the primary teacher.
If this job is done well and properly, your child has no problem getting an excellent education and is well suited to higher education.
Neglect that awesome responsibility and no amount of money from any source will save and shape your manufactured boomerang.
Parents are the neglected ingredient. Not vouchers and political spin.
I see many people nodding their heads.

Best regards, Dan

Well said. I've always said that by the time they get to school (elementary, not pre-school) the die is cast. The are still mallable, but patterns of behavior and reinforcement are well established. And for sure, by the time they get to 3rd grade (9 years old) I think it is pretty easy to watch a group intereact for a short bit and identify those in jeopardy. Then you meet the parents, and it all makes sense.

[pizzaguy]

Would you want to teach in the city of Detroit? What kind of salary would it take to get you to change your mind?

I wasn't clear in my post - I was talking about rural southern Michigan. I lived in HIllsdale county where the average wage in 2000 was under $8.50 an hour but teachers started at $36,000 a year and averaged over $42,000.


I just get annoyed when they complain about their compensation level and/or benefits and expect sympathy from those of us working in non-union fields. What? You have a co-pay on your medical expenses for the first time? Well, welcome to the club. Enjoy your summer off - I'm looking forward to my three weeks vacation for the year.
I get two weeks - and you and I don't really disagree.

[Nicholas_Bostaph]

I wasn't clear in my post - I was talking about rural southern Michigan. I lived in HIllsdale county where the average wage in 2000 was under $8.50 an hour but teachers started at $36,000 a year and averaged over $42,000.

But do you want that average Joe, currently making $8.50/hour, to be a teacher? In other words, do you want someone who's just average at the job, or do you value education enough to want the best? If the former then I'd say that you're right and those teachers are overpaid. On the other hand, if you want the best and brightest, you need to look at how many of those actually end up as teachers, and figure out why those who don't are in other jobs.



I have to echo Tucson_Tim. I've always been told I would be a fantastic teacher. I've always been very good at breaking subjects down and explaining them in a way that can be easily understood, and I'm a natural at the areas I may have wanted to teach (IT, programming, maybe some math). Becoming a high school teacher always was, and still is, one of my long term goals. But the pay is laughable, and I simply can't afford to even consider it right now.

I've lived in the Pittsburgh Suburbs all of my life, and Pittsburgh has been listed as one of the cheapest areas in which to live in the country. Yet by the time I was 21, just finishing up my assoc degree, I was making $50k/year in a field that supposedly required a BS to get you in the door. Two years later, when I finally graduated with my BS, I thought about trying to get into teaching. That choice, however, would have sent me back to school for two more years, cost tens of thousands of dollars, required student teaching afterwards, and then seen me fighting with hundreds of other applicants for very few open jobs just so my salary could go back to levels I hadn't experienced since I was in high school.

That's what our schools are up against. You can hire a worker for minimum wage in any industry, but you need to face the reality of what kind of quality you will get from that worker. Considering the value most of our society places on education, it may be true that our educators are overpaid, but if you place a high value on schooling and want the best educators available to teach the next generation, you're going to need to look at doubling the numbers quoted in that article to win them over...at a minimum. Exceptional individuals don't get average offers in the private sector.



Still, I'd like to teach someday...when I retire. Teaching would provide a much greater sense of accomplishment and meaning in my life. For now, though, I just can't see selling my home and my car, giving up our time going out and taking vacations, and changing my whole standard of living for a thankless job I would often be told I'm overpaid for. Especially not while thinking of starting a family. Oh well...

[danscope]

Well said. I've always said that by the time they get to school (elementary, not pre-school) the die is cast. The are still mallable, but patterns of behavior and reinforcement are well established. And for sure, by the time they get to 3rd grade (9 years old) I think it is pretty easy to watch a group intereact for a short bit and identify those in jeopardy. Then you meet the parents, and it all makes sense.

Thanks, Don

Children want our most valuable thing at those ages; our personal time, and attention. This when you have their ear. We should not banish them to the TV
and the street. Reading and personal interaction builds character like nothing else.

Best regards, Dan

[mike alexander]

Spock Jenkins wrote:
I'm not one who thinks teachers are under paid or over paid. They are paid what the market will bear. I just get annoyed when they complain about their compensation level and/or benefits and expect sympathy from those of us working in non-union fields. What? You have a co-pay on your medical expenses for the first time? Well, welcome to the club. Enjoy your summer off - I'm looking forward to my three weeks vacation for the year.

So join a union. What's a union? A group of people who get together to use group leverage as a tool in the market. If a bunch of individuals band together to use their combined influence where individuals wouldn't have the ability... gee, sounds a bit like... capitalism!

farmerjumperdon wrote:
Bingo. You are worth what it costs to replace you with a person of the same skill and experience. That is how all wages should be decided. If you can be replaced with no loss in results, for less costs, then you are overpaid. Sounds cold, but it is the most effective and responsible model that I've ever heard of. In leiu of that, how does anybody else think a salary should be set in what is supposed to be a free market.

In the same vein, a market is where you get together to haggle over price and value, using whatever leverage you have to get the best deal. All that invisible hand stuff sounds nice and theoretical, but like a binomial distribution it arises out of a zillion coin-flips, or individual negotiations, if you will. Wages are decided when the wage-earner has no power. Wages are negotiated when he does.

[Tinaa]

I wasn't clear in my post - I was talking about rural southern Michigan. I lived in HIllsdale county where the average wage in 2000 was under $8.50 an hour but teachers started at $36,000 a year and averaged over $42,000.



Those $8.50 an hour people probably don't have a Bachelor's Degree.

I do admit I love having summers off. I then have time to research new ways to present lessons. I have the time to try out new lessons to see if they work. I spend a month teaching summer school to the students who didn't pass so that they have the chance to move ahead with their classmates. I stay on top of sales so that I can buy the stuff I know some of my students will need, but can't afford. I spend several days in workshops with others trying to find the absolute best way to teach the material to the gifted as well as the special needs children.

Since I am also a tech on campus, I spend two days in train the trainer sessions as well as conducting training sessions through out the summer for the rest of the teachers. I also set up all the labs and teachers' computers on campus which is another couple or three days.

Yes I do love my summers off.

[sarongsong]

Very much in keeping with every teacher I've ever known personally---especially the purchasing of classroom supplies out of their own pockets.

[Tobin Dax]

I do admit I love having summers off. I then have time to research new ways to present lessons. I have the time to try out new lessons to see if they work. I spend a month teaching summer school to the students who didn't pass so that they have the chance to move ahead with their classmates. I stay on top of sales so that I can buy the stuff I know some of my students will need, but can't afford. I spend several days in workshops with others trying to find the absolute best way to teach the material to the gifted as well as the special needs children.
That's how I plan on spending my summer. I need to develop my own notes for the online astronomy course I'm teaching right now. I'm currently using the notes made by the former instructor. I didn't have the chance to make the class my own, and I can see after three weeks that I need to do that. (I do want to anyway, but I'm really starting to starting to see that I need to.)

I don't have to work at all this summer if I don't want to, but it's a chance for this first-year teacher to go back and make my courses better and make them my own. Making four different courses from scratch with a two-week lead time just isn't plausible. In addition, if I teach during the summer, I can make more money. I'm making a comfortable salary, but a little bit more would be better.

Now, I'm not teaching high school. I seriously considered it, and, honestly, teaching in the math and science division of a community college in an agricultural area isn't much different than teaching high school.

Tinaa is right about who's making $8.50 an hour. I did not get a physics degree to make minimum wage. I did not get a Master's degree to make minimum wage. If I wanted to make that type of money, I wouldn't have spent more than six years in college and grad school taking difficult physics and astronomy courses. On the other hand, I don't want an exorbitant amout of money. I wouldn't be in an academic position if I was after a big paycheck. But my time on the job, spending three more hours on a Friday or Saturday night giving detailed feedback on astro homework, and the time and money I've spent getting the education to get here make me worth at least $30,000/year. That's a comfortable salary for 27 year-old single guy. (I still don't have that much more spending money than I did last year in grad school, btw.) In ten years, when I not only have more experience, but I also have a family that I need money to support, I'll be worth $40-50,000/year. And I'll still be teaching classes and modifying my regular classes during the summer. And I'll definitely enjoy doing that over the summer, so thank you, Spock Jenkins. Enjoy your vacation, too.