Trains win every time.

[NEOWatcher]

I know we ran into (pun?) stories like this before, but I really can't find them anywhere in a good context.

Anyway...
Omg u crshd n2 a train! (http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=76274)
Authorities say Gillespie told them when he looked up and saw the train, it was too close for him to stop.
I am assuming he hit the side of the train, especially since drinking was involved.

And then theres this one that's all over [the place] right now.
Police officer saves woman from oncoming train (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21341009/)
Officer describes train rescue (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/10/17/roberts.train.rescue.cnn)
They are touting it as heroism. Yes; I applaud his action, but was there really a big risk to the Cop? From the video, it looks like there was plenty of time, and they even didn't look like they are in any hurry. (which they extol as "calm")
I really think it is a cop out (pun) by the news media, because it is an interesting situation, and any other take on the story will end up offending the lady making her sound like an idiot. (which she was, in my opinion)

[Doodler]

Any chance to blow sunshine up the butt of someone in uniform.

[Tucson_Tim]

And then theres this one that's all over [the place] right now.
Police officer saves woman from oncoming train (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21341009/)
Officer describes train rescue (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/10/17/roberts.train.rescue.cnn)
... the lady making her sound like an idiot. (which she was, in my opinion)

In the video she looked drunk to me - before the train hit her car.

[NEOWatcher]

In the video she looked drunk to me - before the train hit her car.
I saw that too, but I chalked it up to rough terrain. Especially since the officer spoke of reasons why she made the mistake and didn't mention possible alcohol involved.

[Tucson_Tim]

I saw that too, but I chalked it up to rough terrain. Especially since the officer spoke of reasons why she made the mistake and didn't mention possible alcohol involved.

You're right. Better to give someone the benefit of the doubt. Looks can be deceiving.

[NEOWatcher]

Deja vu all over again...
Couple rescues driver from railroad tracks (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21705889/)

The 63-year-old driver apparently mistook the Long Island Rail Road tracks for a road Thursday evening, authorities said.
...
"She was a little mad we didn't get her pocketbook, but you know, that's life," Randi LoCicero said. The driver wasn't identified.


I guess if you can mistake tracks, then a ditch is even easier to drive into.
Construction Ditch Causes Several Accidents Near Diner (http://www.newsnet5.com/news/14542739/detail.html)

Six people over the past two months have driven their cars into the same ditch, all thinking it was the original driveway

Wouldn't you start to question the visibility of it after the first one?

[NEOWatcher]

I'm sure this whole story is/will be discussed elsewhere on the board, and should be. I'm only posting it here for the one aspect of the story.

Mother Of Space Station Astronaut Killed (http://www.local6.com/news/14894525/detail.html)

Tani's mother was stopped behind a school bus at a railroad crossing and the gates apparently did not come down, WLS-TV, an ABC Network News affiliate reported.

She apparently went around the school bus and was hit by the train, then was taken to a nearby hospital and was pronounced dead, the TV station said.

There just sounds like some bad judgement made in there somewhere.

[Doodler]

There just sounds like some bad judgement made in there somewhere.

Starting with turning 90 and not turning in the keys...

We condition old people to think the world revolves around them, and they're dangerous enough as pedestrians.

I remember damned near killing two old women who jaywalked in front of me holding their hand up to stop traffic because that's where they wanted to cross. I locked up on them just to be a bugger for their stupidity.

[Bessler007]

There are medical conditions that give the appearance of drunkenness so lacking a blood sample or some other evidence it's impossible to tell.

I'd like to make a point about drinking and driving and some consequences I don't think too many people are aware of. You might know about how many lives are lost by this habit. It sounds sad and most have empathy but it's easy to forget unless it's someone you love or personally know. For instance if I told you a good friend of mine killed himself with alcohol poisoning you might have a little empathy right now but a year from now it would be just another fact you may or may not recall. Not much permanent impact on you.

Here is the point: Where I'm at, state licensing boards can deny or revoke your license if you have a DWI conviction on your record. I'm not talking about your drivers license. You might loose that also. Suppose you are a CPA. You will loose your certification. You will loose your ability to get a job as an accountant. That's not the ½ of it. You will have ****ed off your degree, what ever that cost. You will have squandered all the effort you made to pass a test you probably couldn't pass again (Can't Pass Again). lol.

That is just a part of the consequences. You will be fined. You might go to jail. You will pay lawyers. All of that has the potential to run into tens of thousands of dollars. Your life will be ruined. You will be taught a lesson. Loosing that license will follow you and haunt you no matter where you go.

There have been cases where people have lied on their applications about dwi's and have had a marvelous career up to the moment they were getting ready to retire. Companies are starting to do background checks on people at that point in their career. They have been discharged with cause. They have lost any retirement they hoped to have.

I'm not interested in discussing the idea of double jeopardy. I just wanted to make the point that a cheap shot of your favorite poison might not be nearly as cheap as you might think.

Cheers.

[tdvance]

Your life will be ruined.

hmmm...that could drive a guy to drink....

[Bessler007]

tdvance,

Drinking won't cause the train wreck but drinking and driving could derail your life where I'm at. I thought it was interesting and I didn't think too many people knew about it.

I do see the humor.

[NEOWatcher]

Deja Vu.

Man using GPS drives into path of train (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22493399/)

The driver had turned right, as the system advised, and the car somehow got stuck on the tracks at the crossing

I wonder if he had his rating for IFR, or he was still required to use VFR.

Why look? Technology is always right.

[Swift]

I had a friend in high school, well before GPS, that was like that. He'd be driving, I'd be navigating, and I'd say "make a right". He would literally make a right at that moment, into someone's driveway or on to the lawn. I had to remember to say "at the next street, make a right". :doh:

[Doodler]

Deja Vu.

Man using GPS drives into path of train (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22493399/)

I wonder if he had his rating for IFR, or he was still required to use VFR.

Why look? Technology is always right.

Score one more for a brighter humanity.

[NEOWatcher]

...He would literally make a right at that moment, into someone's driveway or on to the lawn...
We did that too (on occasion), but it was always well understood that it was a joke. (it also helped us hone our skills for road rallys)

[JohnD]

The stories are so similar (GPS onto railway line) that one might suspect urban myth, but this is BBC reporting!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/6646331.stm

The silly girl opened one crossing gate, drove through and then noticed another gate. She was lucky to be opening that when the train came along.

Darwin fame would beckon, but she was unharmed!
JOhn

[Doodler]

The stories are so similar (GPS onto railway line) that one might suspect urban myth, but this is BBC reporting!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/6646331.stm

The silly girl opened one crossing gate, drove through and then noticed another gate. She was lucky to be opening that when the train came along.

Darwin fame would beckon, but she was unharmed!
JOhn

There oughta be a law that would allow the officers responding to throw her on the tracks and let the train have another go at her.

[NEOWatcher]

The stories are so similar (GPS onto railway line) that one might suspect urban myth, but this is BBC reporting!...
Well; not quite.
The first one, the guy actually turned onto the tracks.

The other one, was just a crossing, and she probably would have been in the exact same situation without the GPS. Even if she picked the shorter route from a map, she would have ended up in the same situation.

To me, it sounds like some really strange crossing.

Why didn't she open both gates first, or took a closer look as to why they were there, or why she didn't notice steel things running across the road and into the dark.
And what about this "is the light green" sign. What light? did she see one?
No; relying on the satnav was the smallest part of the story IMO. It fits better in the Not my fault thread.

[farmerjumperdon]

My dad was an engineer for the Rock Island; one of the last 4 line employees before they shut down for good. Hitting cars was fairly regular for them - or at least not as rare as you'd think it should be. I believe he hit a couple dozen or so in his carreer.

So with our immediate family and 8 pairs of aunts/uncles all living in the same community, and the humongous number of crossings in Chicago's South Side and 1st ring suburbs, it was just a matter of time before he hit a relative.

So he comes home from work one day and just nonchalantly mentions that he nailed Aunt Violet with the Morning Commuter Express at the 143rd Street crossing. Luckily she survived.

Everyone should know better, but growing up in that area people just get complacent because errant gates, long delays, and the sheer volume of crossings desensitizes people. If you grow up there running gates is just part of driving. You just need to be very sure of what you are about to do. The most dangerous is blindly following someone else or going around someone blocking your vision. Also, many people were hit by jumping the gun immediately after a train passes; seeing too late that another was coming from the other way.

[NEOWatcher]

... Hitting cars was fairly regular for them - or at least not as rare as you'd think it should be. I believe he hit a couple dozen or so in his carreer...
I can understand that, but how many knew it was a railroad and ignored the risk vs how many didn't even know. Not to mention, how many actually turned onto the tracks.

Edit: And how many denied it was their fault and blamed some other reason?

[HenrikOlsen]

In Denmark there's recently been several cases of people going the wrong way on a highway.

One explanation for the phenomenon is a confirmed bug in some GPS systems where they actually tell people to go that way, ie. take the offramp onto the highway.
Combine that with bad lighting and an exhausted driver who hadn't been that way before and is depending on his GPS to get him there, and you have a recipe for a bad accident.

[NEOWatcher]

One explanation for the phenomenon is a confirmed bug in some GPS systems where they actually tell people to go that way, ie. take the offramp onto the highway.
See; that's what worries me. So what if it's a bug? Relying on something like that is completely absurd. Road signs and markings should always be the primary source of information. It's the only thing that is up to date AND LEGAL.
The systems are accurate, but how does anyone trust that the map is accurate?

[farmerjumperdon]

I can understand that, but how many knew it was a railroad and ignored the risk vs how many didn't even know. Not to mention, how many actually turned onto the tracks.

Edit: And how many denied it was their fault and blamed some other reason?

They all knew. Like I said, very routine there. They were just people in a hurry and not practicing safe run-the-gates tactics.

[Spacebubby]

I probably shouldn't admit this, but I reversed up the on-ramp to the Sydney Harbour Bridge (south-bound) many years ago at about midnight, because I'd missed the turn-off I was supposed to take and had no idea where I had to go if I went across the bridge. In my defense, it was before either my husband or I had a mobile phone, it was really late at night and there was next to no traffic, I had my hazard lights on, I had no money for the toll and I'd already been driving around North Sydney for over an hour trying to find this mysterious street that was in the street directory, but that I couldn't find in reality. It was the most terrifying night of my life and if my husband hadn't been absolutely paralytic from the Christmas party I was collecting him from, I certainly wouldn't have driven home and I've never driven to North Sydney since.

[NEOWatcher]

I probably shouldn't admit this...
But; you knew exactly what situation you were in, you took the time to take extra precautions, and, although you have an excuse for the situation you were in, you are not making an excuse for doing what you did.
And; based on that, it sounds like that you would have admitted it was wrong, if something went wrong.

In other words, you weren't oblivious to the whole thing and blame the transporation department for not letting you know you weren't where you shouldn't be.

[Spacebubby]

That is true Neowatcher, I was not oblivious to the danger I that I was in and was creating.

Having said that, I still recognise that it was a stooooooopid thing to have done.

In Australia, we have heaps of level crossings (used and old - usually with nothing to distinguish one from the other) with some of them being in the middle of busy towns/suburbs where people try to cross the tracks even though the gates have come down, there are red flashing lights telling you that a train is coming, and there's a big bell ringing in their ears! They still go! Anything to save a few seconds off their journey time.

[man on the moon]

Wow...yeah. Too many stories dependant on GPS. I think people take them too literally without understanding their shortcomings. Using one should be part of driver's ed and passing a written test part of renewing a lisence.

I once decided to hike cross country using my GPS and a compass. I set the waymarks for leaving one trail and rejoining the other. I was familiar with the area but had never been off trail. The total distance was ~1 mile I would travel, but the farther I went the more I kept thinking "I'm off, and I'm going farther". I was in the middle of the woods, but eventually I turned it off and trusted my gut. I came out about 300 feet from my destination. When I turned the GPS back on, it said I was 3/10 mile (1600 feet) off.

The punchline is that when I got home, I realized I had saved the wrong waypoint to start with...d'oh. Still, I knew the shortcomings of my device. I would have been fine if I'd followed it, but it made me wonder about someone not paying attention and driving.

It is too bad stories like these have to happen. Not that I'm mistake free (I've nearly mistaken railways and ditches for roads before too), but it seems like "when it says 'turn' it means 'turn at the corner, it's warning you'..."

.02
---
Oh, before I forget:

Fact: Michael once drove a rental car into a lake because the GPS said "turn right here"

Fact: Dwight tried to correct him, but they lost the car anyway. (from The Office. I guess tv is true sometimes :()

[NEOWatcher]

Wow...yeah. Too many stories dependant on GPS. I think people take them too literally without understanding their shortcomings. Using one should be part of driver's ed and passing a written test part of renewing a lisence.
Being able to ignore one, and interpret your surroundings should be the test.

[man on the moon]

Being able to ignore one, and interpret your surroundings should be the test.

Ooh, I like that even better!

[tdvance]

I drove back to my parents' house in WV from Bowie using a Garmin Nuvi--when I got to the new section of the under-construction US 48/WV 55 through Hardy County, the Garmin showed me driving between roads and every time I passed a side road, the Garmin would tell me to turn onto that road to return to WV 55 (now, Old WV 55). Of course, I disobeyed the rather insistent voice.

According to the local Moorefield paper, though, several tractor trailer drivers over several weeks failed to disobey their GPS navigators and got their trucks stuck on roads not fit for tractor trailers. The first line of the story was something like, "If you need directions, ask a local; don't use GPS." Hardy County residents are (99.9% of the time) friendly enough that this is good advice in that area.

[NEOWatcher]

I drove back to my parents' house in WV from Bowie using a Garmin Nuvi--...
Good example...
Although it took me a second or two to realize why driving in a German Car was relevent. :sick: (I think I need to read slower)

[farmerjumperdon]

Ooh, I like that even better!

Reminds me of the best line I've ever heard regarding GPS. It was a comedian I think, spoofing reliance on them. The driver missed the turn and the unit, in a comicly machine voice simulation dutifully and politely informed him that his destination was 25,000 miles straight ahead.

[Swift]

GPS is a tool, like fire or a knife. You can use it well or you can use it badly. Some people cook a steak and cut it up, others burn down the house and slice up their hand. I love my GPS unit and, so far, have not killed anyone.

[NEOWatcher]

Here we go again.
Good Samaritan pulls man from train tracks minutes before fiery collision (http://www.wkyc.com/news/national/news_article.aspx?storyid=82328)
Investigators say 72-year-old Franciszek Chudzik accidentally turned onto the tracks thinking it was a road.
Alcohol involved...

With video link of the collision.

[boppa]

My mum got a Tomtom for crissy as a present and on her first trip with it up to her work(about 140km each way) it was going absolutely bonkers, saying she was speeding and she had to turn right immediately

She was on a new stretch of freeway that was opened just before Christmas with a 110 kmh speed limit that bypasses a town with 60 and 80 kmh limits

The gps was showing her barrelling through a field at 110 past a speed camera and didn't know what to make of it.

Its a shame that she now basically leaves the gps unit off on that trip as for about 15-20 km it constantly sounds alerts alerts and judging by how often whereis updates the maps here in Australia, it probably will still not be updated by the time she retires in less than a year. Shame as its exceed speed limit feature is one of its best points as these days you can lose your lisc quite quickly here in n.s.w. for inadvertantly exceeding the limit a couple of times.

[sarongsong]

More videos on the way!January 28, 2008
Union Pacific this year plans to install more than 1,600 Track Image Recorders (TIRs) aboard locomotive cabs to digitally record a view of the track, crossings and signals directly in front of a train as it travels over the rails...
Union Pacific Railroad (http://www.uprr.com/newsinfo/releases/safety/2008/0128_tir.shtml)

[NEOWatcher]

Two more local ones...
Mom In Court After Child Injured On Train Tracks (http://www.newsnet5.com/news/15574875/detail.html)

Debra Thomas' daughter spent days in the hospital after the car they were in was hit by a speeding train. Police said Thomas ignored the warning and drove around the gates, putting her daughter in danger.

While an officer watched... Ok, this is a case of two trains, but lights and gates?
But, but, but, the first car made it.

And this on... the train doesn't even have to be moving.
Woman Killed After Hitting Stopped Train (http://www.newsnet5.com/news/15588680/detail.html)
I also heard on the radio that the crossing lights were working.

Not exactly a blind crossing according to the associated pic.

[mugaliens]

"Confused, and perhaps distracted while trying to get directions from her friend on her cell phone, DeVall pulled onto a set of railroad tracks, unaware that an Amtrak passenger train on its way from New..."

It doesn't matter whether she was unaware of Amtrak's schedule. How couldn't she have been unaware that she was on a set of railroad tracks?

That's sort of the same league as in, "I wasn't aware I was on the runway of an international airport."

[Donnie B.]

There were three separate fatal train-pedestrian accidents in the last two days in this area. Two of them involved high-speed Acela trains on the NYC-Boston route.

In one case, the train hit a group of track inspectors near Providence. One killed, two injured. Apparently they were in a blind area and didn't hear it coming.

The second incident (in Connecticut) injured a woman and killed her dog. She said she did hear the train coming but thought it was on a different track.

I haven't heard the details of the third incident.

[mugaliens]

Uh, where is the common sense on the way?

Uh, experiece, anyone?

Gosh, what's not getting us killed?

Evolution?

I am very respectful of those who have lost their loved ones. And please, trust me - I've come closer on more than one occasion.

But hey... evolution is a journey.

[geonuc]

"Confused, and perhaps distracted while trying to get directions from her friend on her cell phone, DeVall pulled onto a set of railroad tracks, unaware that an Amtrak passenger train on its way from New..."


Maybe you didn't quote enough of the original report, but what you have here doesn't suggest anything about her not knowing Amtrak's schedule.

[closetgeek]

You know what I can't understand is when pedestrians get hit by trains. I have heard, many times over, that when you are on the tracks, you can't hear the train. I grew up three houses down from the RR tracks that intersected our street. Against my mothers rule, we used the tracks as a short cut to the local convenience store and not once did a train ever "sneak up" on me. I am not bashing people that have been injured or killed in this way, just baffled at how it can happen. How do you not hear the most common used referrence to loud noises, coming?

[farmerjumperdon]

Good question. I could understand not hearing a relatively quiet high speed electric, but a good old fashioned diesel powered locomotive? How do you not hear that?

I grew up around trains, lived 3 houses down from one of the biggest yards in Chicago for a while. Dad was a Rock Island engineer so I spent a good amount of time in the roundhouse, in cabooses, locomotive cabs, etc.

One possibility is maybe getting hit by one of the passenger trains that is being pushed by the locomotive instead of being pulled.

[Noclevername]

Earphones. Maybe they're listening to music and it drowns out the train sound.
High winds or highway traffic could also cover the noise until it's too late.

[Donnie B.]

Supersonic trains? ;)


Seriously, though... if the environment is otherwise noisy (right beside a major highway, nearby construction, etc.) the engine could get pretty close before it becomes clearly identifiable. In some cases that might be too late.

[HenrikOlsen]

And there's still the distinctive singing tracks to warn you long before you can hear the engine.
Basically it's people raising the average of the species.

[closetgeek]

Agreed Henrik, the ground also vibrates. Blasting headphones while walking on RR tracks really should qualify you for the Darwin awards, maybe second place. Mine was a relatively quiet neighborhood, barring the occassional train, so traffic wouldn't play a major roll in drowing out, so I guess that is a good point. Still, there are distinct warnings of an approaching train.

Farmer, I have to ask. When you were a kid and friends slept over, did they have a hard time sleeping through the passing trains? That was a major complaint at my house, but I find the sound of a train horn to be a sound of home. I always long to be back on my old street. I live no where near tracks now and honestly miss the sound...

[NEOWatcher]

Video:Girls maimed by train (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/05/29/pkg.me.girls.hit.by.train.wcsh)

Two girls who apparently fell asleep on railroad tracks while sunbathing were hit by a freight train.

[mugaliens]

My Garmin Nuvi isn't the most accurate device, either, and occasionally gives me directions which are completely out to lunch.

Fortunately, somewhere in the last 20 years I learned to read a map, as well as to ignore my Garmin when it's out to lunch.

[mugaliens]

Video:Girls maimed by train (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/05/29/pkg.me.girls.hit.by.train.wcsh)

What moron sunbaths on train tracks? I hope they're not suing the company for damages, as that would be as idiotic as jumping off a cliff then suing Isaac Newton for "inventing" the law of gravity. If they are suing the company, they should be counter-sued for their stupidity and for causing what can only be a lot of grief for the train's conductor.

There's a reason the Darwin Awards exist - people do dumb things which shortens their lifespans.

Hopefully before they're able to add to the gene pool.

[Larry Jacks]

Kids sometimes do very stupid things. These girls were around 13/14 years old. That's not an especially bright age for many kids. They're fortunate to be alive. I've read of other kids losing limbs or worse after trying to hop a train. Stupid.

[Swift]

Kids sometimes do very stupid things. These girls were around 13/14 years old. That's not an especially bright age for many kids. They're fortunate to be alive. I've read of other kids losing limbs or worse after trying to hop a train. Stupid.
According to what I read, one lost a foot, the other a leg below the knee. They are both very lucky to get away with only that.

[Fazor]

According to what I read, one lost a foot, the other a leg below the knee. They are both very lucky to get away with only that.

From the article I read, it sounds like one had a broken rib and serious head trauma aswell. But it sounded like both will live.

Trains can be quite tricky...you never know exactly what dirrection they're going to dart towards next...

[tdvance]

Kids sometimes do very stupid things. These girls were around 13/14 years old. That's not an especially bright age for many kids. They're fortunate to be alive. I've read of other kids losing limbs or worse after trying to hop a train. Stupid.

At the age of 13, I was afraid of train tracks, enough that I'd look both ways, THEN cross carefully so as not to get a shoe caught, but without wasting time either--would never stand on the tracks for any length of time. Around 15 or so I recall crossing a train bridge--and I wouldn't have done that were there not platforms every few feet to get off on while a train passes.

But, it could be their parents didn't teach them to be safe with trains, plains, and automobiles, and they literally didn't think ahead. Even so, you'd think by the age of 13 you'd be smarter than that!

Actually, humans are rationalizing beings, and it's worse at 13 than at an adult age where the tendency is tempered by experience. I could see them rationalizing--"when the train comes, we'll hear it and get up"--but a few years more experience with sleeping through alarms, etc. would have disabused them of that notion.

[Larry Jacks]

The video news report mentioned that investigators are examining the train's data recorder to determine how fast it was going, whether it blew it's horn, etc. Reportedly, the speed limit for that stretch of track is only 15 MPH. How much time was available for the engineer or conductor to see the girls, blow the horn, and attempt to stop. If they were on a blind curve, there may not have been much time at all to do anything even if the train was doing the posted speed. Even going that slow, it can take a considerable distance to stop a train.

While I feel a measure of sympathy for the girls for the injury they suffered, I feel more sorry for the conductor. Even though it wasn't his fault, I'm sure he feels terrible about the accident.

[Nicolas]

Trains do win all the time:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Kalitta-Air/Boeing-747-209F-SCD/1357525/L/&tbl=photo_info&photo_nr=5&prev_id=1357526&next_id=1357524

This happened at Zaventem national airport last week...

No serious injuries, no fatalities.

(the train was not involved in any way, but the contrast is nice)

[NEOWatcher]

Trains do win all the time:
This happened at Zaventem national airport last week...
I'm not sure about that. According to this story (http://www.tolerance.ca/Article.aspx?ID=13635&L=FR), the trains lost.
Officials said the crash had not significantly affected air traffic, but the rail link between the airport and the centre of the Belgian capital had been suspended as the line ran close to the scene of the crash.

A bit off topic from the thread, but from the article...

"The five-strong crew were all Americans, "
I am assuming this is just some local flavor of indicating a count rather than saying the crew were all the big burly husky type.

"Imagine if it had been an aircraft full of passengers!"
If it were, then it wouldn't have taken off from that runway.

[Nicolas]

I don't know whether passenger 747's use that runway or not.

Trains had more problems with the crash that airlines indeed. Well, except for the 747 that crashed of course :).

Local residents have long campaigned to have this particular runway shut down, and said the crash was entirely predictable.

....afterwards. Of course they started shouting already before any information on the crash was available. It turns out that most likely an engine failure is the cause of the crash. Nobody injured, nothing damaged. So they're complaining because...?

This was very close to a catastrophe," said Frederic Petit of the local residents' association. "Imagine if it had been an aircraft full of passengers!"
So now they're suddenly worried about the people on board? how strange, all these years they were only worried about the noise above their heads...

"Since 2004, freight planes have been using this runway on Saturdays and Sundays, yet it is 1,000 metres (yards) shorter than the others," he added.
The length of the other runways is totally irrelevant, if this runway is long enough.

"The politicians can no longer beat about the bush, this runway must immediately be closed to the heaviest carriers," said the Mayor of neighbouring Wezembeek-Oppem, Francois Van Hoobrouck.
Ah, how convenient that a mayor knows better than the international air travel authorities. Elections coming up?

Sorry, this didn't really relate to the thread but the non-arguments of these action groups make me a bit tired...

[NEOWatcher]

...The length of the other runways is totally irrelevant, if this runway is long enough...
I see you added to the post. This was the very question I was searching for. (and yes, in this case a BOOM during take-off trumps runway length)
The runway in question is 9800ft. (per wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_Airport))
A fully (max) loaded 747 will need (up to) 10,000 ft. (per yahoo answers (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006040810815))
So; the question could actually be there. There's room, but not a lot of leeway.

Judging from the layout of the airport, I would think it would be most dangerous because of cross traffic.

I was also wondering about that comment about Cargo planes on the weekends. It would have been nice for the reporter to mention why that was relevant.

Sorry, this didn't really relate to the thread but the non-arguments of these action groups make me a bit tired...
I share the feeling... While seeing various stories on this, it's frustrating to see all the "different" facts.

[mugaliens]

You know what I can't understand is when pedestrians get hit by trains. I have heard, many times over, that when you are on the tracks, you can't hear the train. I grew up three houses down from the RR tracks that intersected our street. Against my mothers rule, we used the tracks as a short cut to the local convenience store and not once did a train ever "sneak up" on me. I am not bashing people that have been injured or killed in this way, just baffled at how it can happen. How do you not hear the most common used referrence to loud noises, coming?

Well, to reverse myself from my previous Darwin Award statistic...

I was crossing the railroad tracks in the Pacific Northwest, near Doug's Beach on the Hood River. With me were my brother and my parents. On foot. I was tail end charlie, and after I crossed the tracks, I stopped, taking in the view.

Along that part of the tracks, there's a downslope, and trains go awful fast (between 70 and 90 mph). This one was just coasting.

The first indication I had that it was coming was my brother grabbing the front of my shirt and pulling. Hard. He was a highly competant windsurfer at the time, and if you know anything about windsurfing, those who do it a lot (and he did) generally develop a grip of steel and an arm pull strength capable of ripping steel girders apart.

I went flying.

As I was flying through the air, I heard it and saw the train in my peripheral vision. It was less than half a second away.

I don't know that it would have hit me, but I was awfully close to the tracks, so it might have. If it had, it probably would have killed me, or at least done grave injury.

I'm just glad that my brother didn't like the margin for error and acted so quickly.

To answer your question, the reason I didn't hear it until the very last second was that it was going downhill, coasting mostly, and it's engines weren't chung-chung-chunging along.

Also, it wasn't at a road crossing, so the engineer never blew the horn, although he should have, given the fact that there are always a lot of people around that area. Any engineer worth his salt should know his route and would blow his horn when approaching a spot that's teaming with people every single day.

[Demigrog]

While I feel a measure of sympathy for the girls for the injury they suffered, I feel more sorry for the conductor. Even though it wasn't his fault, I'm sure he feels terrible about the accident.

I have a good friend who works for a railroad, and has hit and killed several people in his career. Each time there was nothing he could do about it--trains are simply too heavy to stop, sometimes even with a mile's warning. He came close to quitting at one point, but with a lot of counseling came through it, and now volunteers to do railroad crossing safety sessions wherever he can. Most accidents seem to involve alcohol, but it still amazes me how many people are stupid enough to walk along tracks, even cross bridges--sometimes while wearing headphones.

[NEOWatcher]

Another case of getting yourself in a position where there's no where to go...
Man Killed When Struck, Dragged By Train On Bridge (http://www.newsnet5.com/news/17154902/detail.html)

Here's the kicker.

Three people from the group jumped into the river below. They later told authorities that the victim remained on the bridge because he was afraid of the long drop.

[Donnie B.]

Another case of getting yourself in a position where there's no where to go...
Man Killed When Struck, Dragged By Train On Bridge (http://www.newsnet5.com/news/17154902/detail.html)

Here's the kicker.

Three people from the group jumped into the river below. They later told authorities that the victim remained on the bridge because he was afraid of the long drop.

"Can't swim?!? Hell, the fall'll probably kill ya!"

[sarongsong]

Train-on-train... :(September 12, 2008
A Metrolink train and a Union Pacific freight train collided head-on in Chatsworth [Los Angeles County] this afternoon, killing at least 15 people and injuring at least 70 others...with such force that the lead passenger car was wrapped around the Metrolink locomotive...trains on the track would normally be traveling 55 mph to 79 mph...
- Los Angeles Times
newsday.com (http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-me-traincrash13-2008sep13,0,245095.story)

[NEOWatcher]

Double deja vu (http://www.bautforum.com/1145134-post12.html)

Car GPS blamed for NY train accident again (http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp?S=9098000)
BEDFORD HILLS, N.Y. (AP) - For the second time this year, a GPS has been blamed for a car-train collision in suburban Bedford Hills, N.Y.

Got stuck like the last one? Stuck how. I think this might be more than just a relying on GPS situation. I'd like to see a picture of that crossing.

[Neverfly]

The article implies that it's twice at that same location.

[NEOWatcher]

The article implies that it's twice at that same location.
Yes; but I think it was clearer on other stories that I heard about it which is why I mentioned it.
Here's a better story (http://wcbstv.com/topstories/gps.beford.hills.2.828972.html) with some good quotes.


Despite having passed a sign that said railroad crossing and despite approaching railroad crossing gates
...
"You don't turn onto train tracks. Even if there are little voices in your head telling you to do so. If the GPS told you to drive off a cliff, would you drive off a cliff?" Metro-North spokeswoman Marjorie Anders said.

[ineluki]

The article implies that it's twice at that same location.

I think I'm going to start a conspiracy theory that the GPS-devices are actually a tool of the jewish illuminated, reptiloid NWO to wipe out the sheep that follow instructions blindly.



P.S I know that killing "blind followers" seems to be contradictory to their world domination plans, but the followers of my CT won't realise it...

[Sam5]

Double deja vu (http://www.bautforum.com/1145134-post12.html)

Car GPS blamed for NY train accident again (http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp?S=9098000)
BEDFORD HILLS, N.Y. (AP) - For the second time this year, a GPS has been blamed for a car-train collision in suburban Bedford Hills, N.Y.

Shouldn't "basic map reading" be taught in public schools by about the age of 12?

[Sam5]

I've known lots of adults and teenagers in my life who couldn't tell me which way "north" was, or east, or west, or south. Even at sunset they couldn't tell me which way "west" was.

[NEOWatcher]

Shouldn't "basic map reading" be taught in public schools by about the age of 12?
This has nothing to do with how well you can read a map.
It's a matter of whether you can see out your window and identify objects.

Railroad gates...Gee, must be a train track around here.
Steel lines and grooves across the road... Gee, must be a train track around here.
I'm turning and theres 2 big rails leading down the road... Gee, must be a train track.
There's wooden ties all lined up crossing the road... Gee, must be a train track.

[Sam5]

This has nothing to do with how well you can read a map.
It's a matter of whether you can see out your window and identify objects.

Railroad gates...Gee, must be a train track around here.
Steel lines and grooves across the road... Gee, must be a train track around here.
I'm turning and theres 2 big rails leading down the road... Gee, must be a train track.
There's wooden ties all lined up crossing the road... Gee, must be a train track.

You know that, and I know that, but a lot of people today are used to following instructions, especially instructions from electronic gadgets.

I can see someone following the instructions of an electronic gadget and then thinking, "Dang, these two big rails SHOULDN'T BE HERE!"

[NEOWatcher]

I can see someone following the instructions of an electronic gadget and then thinking, "Dang, these two big rails SHOULDN'T BE HERE!"
Could be, but I'm thinking more that they are saying "gee, what are tho ...oh cool, a Journey song."

[tdvance]

Shouldn't "basic map reading" be taught in public schools by about the age of 12?

Of course--instructions for reading a map:

1. go to mapquest
2. type in your address
3. type in the destination address
4. click "go"

:)

[Neverfly]

Shouldn't "basic map reading" be taught in public schools by about the age of 12?

Well, American kids see, they don't have maps... like the kids in China and The Iraq...

[tdvance]

You mean, "unlike U. S. Americans, some people don't have maps"?

[Sam5]

Well, American kids see, they don't have maps... like the kids in China and The Iraq...

Lol, yes, I saw that girl on TV.

[NEOWatcher]

Two versions of the same story could probably fit in the "read again" thread... But, placed here because the train won.

Train Crashes into RTA Bus (http://www.myfoxcleveland.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=7991771&version=5&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1)

The driver -- Dan Rodgers -- was able to evacuate his vehicle prior to impact. He also made an attempt to stop the train.

That could use a bit more explaination... I just keep picturing Superman for some reason.

And then theres the headline on this one.
Bus Stalls On Tracks; Hit By Bus (http://www.newsnet5.com/news/18193762/detail.html). http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/konfus/k030.gif

Edit:
And one more version to explain the first comment.
Train Slams Into Stalled Out RTA Bus (http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp?S=9449470#)
The driver of the bus ordered all eight passengers off the bus and started doing jumping jacks on the railroad to get the train's attention to stop.
Ok; interesting way to describe it.
In the mean time the train was already attempting to stop, and blowing it's horn wildly. Now instinct would probably make me do the same thing, but, I think a big bus across the tracks is a much better signal to the engineer.

[sarongsong]

Another head-shaker :(July 9, 2009
An Amtrak passenger train carrying about 170 people struck a car that had skirted a gate at a road crossing near Detroit...killing all five people in the sedan...
AP (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_TRAIN_HITS_CAR?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US)

[NEOWatcher]

Amtrak...It slices, it dices, it always stays sharp. Just look what it can do to a tomato.

Amtrak Train Slices Tomato Trailer In Half (http://www.newsnet5.com/news/20369393/detail.html)


An Amtrak train with 265 passengers sliced a trailer carrying about 1,600 cartons of tomatoes clean in half when the two collided on Tuesday.

It doesn't look too clean from the pictures. It looks quite messy.

No mention of whistles, and no crossing gates.

[NEOWatcher]

Police: Ohio College Student Gets Hit By Train After Drinking (http://www.newsnet5.com/news/20599391/detail.html)
I didn't expect the outcome mentioned by the first sentence.

Police in an Ohio college town said a student who was resting off a night of drinking near train tracks is OK after being hit by a train.

OK? Well; considering the story, yes. So; let's say the train won by a slim margin.

[DonM435]

I wouldn't even want to be involved in a split decision. Or a draw.

[eric_marsh]

Trains win every time? I beg to differ.

http://sugarmegs.org/posternutbag/godzilla1.jpeg

[sarongsong]

One more:August 27, 2009
Firefighters rescue man just before train crashes into truck...it took about five seconds to get him out and at least another four seconds to get off the tracks. About four seconds later, the passenger train plowed into the truck...traveling about 60 mph...
venturacountystar.com (http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2009/aug/27/no-headline---nxxfctrain28/)

[DonM435]

One more:

So? Sounds like they made it with time to spare! :shifty:

[NEOWatcher]

Trains win every time? I beg to differ.
<pic.

How do we know the train didn't win in the end?

So? Sounds like they made it with time to spare! :shifty:
I'm not sure that I like how that story was presented.

It sounds like a "the dickens to safety precautions...lets go NOW!"

I think it would be appropriate to mention what they had to forego to ultimately save the life (no backboard, etc).

[sarongsong]

So? Sounds like they made it with time to spare! :shifty:Right---that was in response to post #83.

[Nowhere Man]

Back on July 9, in Canton Twp., Michigan, a young yahoo in a hurry drove around a stopped car and the crossing gates and positioned his car perfectly (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/10/train-bound-for-chicago-h_n_229339.html). He not only killed himself, but the four other young people in the car. The video from the train clearly shows the car driving in front of the train.

If not for the other four people, I'd say it's evolution in action.

Fred

[NEOWatcher]

Train drags half-naked mooner along tracks (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33284400/ns/world_news-weird_news/)


BERLIN - A German man mooning railway staff in a departing train got his trousers caught in a carriage door and ended up being dragged half naked along the platform, out of the station and onto the tracks.

Something tells me that it ended up with him not insulting anyone.

[LaurelHS]

A guy was just hit by a train in British Columbia (http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091012/bc_chestnut_train_091012/20091012/?hub=BritishColumbiaHome); he was wandering around between two train crossings to collect chestnuts, apparently. :confused:

[Neverfly]

How tragic... I really feel for the family.

[publiusr]

You know what I can't understand is when pedestrians get hit by trains. I have heard, many times over, that when you are on the tracks, you can't hear the train. I grew up three houses down from the RR tracks that intersected our street. Against my mothers rule, we used the tracks as a short cut to the local convenience store and not once did a train ever "sneak up" on me. I am not bashing people that have been injured or killed in this way, just baffled at how it can happen. How do you not hear the most common used referrence to loud noises, coming?

You'd be surprised. I have always spent a lot of time out of doors. Once I worked a job that required me to spend a lot of time near rails. Once, some flatbed cars minus an engine were rolling backwards around a turn down a grade. I heard but very little. More quiet than you might imagine.

[Fazor]

A-HA! Proof that this thread title is wrong! They don't win every time!
Before I link: Quick warning, video is kinda shocking the first time you see it. But it turns out all-good. I promise.

Baby VS Train! (http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/10/16/australia.baby.train.escape/index.html)

Okay, so seeing it for the first time this morning almost made me sick. And not a lot, as far as humans and injury, can do that. But a baby? Who doesn't have a weakness for baby deaths.

... but wait, there was no death! And no major injury! Too bad this kid isn't old enough to go buy a lotto ticket. Amazing.

I find it an interesting film, since no one was hurt, in that it gives me a chance to study people's reactions in the face of certain (but wrong!) tragedy. I mean, gods, I can't imagine being one of those people. Particularly the mother. Hell, if it was me, I might have just willed myself dead right on the spot. How awful.

But wow. Shows that you just never know.

[LaurelHS]

According to a CBC article (http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/10/16/baby-train-stroller-survive-rolls-tracks.html), this accident is a good illustration of why babies in strollers need to be strapped in properly. This baby would probably not have survived if he had fallen out of the stroller.

[HenrikOlsen]

It's a good illustration why stollers should have their locks engaged at all time when not held.

[NEOWatcher]

A-HA! Proof that this thread title is wrong! They don't win every time!
Ok; sometimes there's a tie. But; they don't lose. (In fact I added another in the read it again thread)

... but wait, there was no death! And no major injury! Too bad this kid isn't old enough to go buy a lotto ticket. Amazing.
Even without the train, I thought that the kid came out extremely lucky. That was one heck of a fall.
Pretty good carriage, or good packing by the mom.

[LaurelHS]

Here's another story (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20091110/boston_train_091110/20091110?hub=TopStoriesV2) where the train didn't win.

[Fazor]

The woman, whose name was not made public, suffered some scrapes and was taken to a hospital for evaluation. She told authorities she had been drinking.

After watching the video, I thought maybe she had had a seizure (until I subsequently read the article, of course). Even though the phrase "been drinking" doesn't specify amount, it still sounds like an understatement! Wow.

[NEOWatcher]

... Even though the phrase "been drinking" doesn't specify amount, it still sounds like an understatement! Wow.
Well; that's to balance off the overstatement of "hero".
Was the driver in danger? No; he slammed on the brakes like any other vehicle operator would have, and should have.

Kudos for recognizing a danger, and I don't mind the recognition he's getting, but I don't think "hero" applies. Isn't that why there's an operator? Is he a hero because he wasn't sleeping?

[aurora]

Could be, but I'm thinking more that they are saying "gee, what are tho ...oh cool, a Journey song."

Are you saying we have a short attenti...

oooh, monkeys!