An orange for Christmas

[banquo's_bumble_puppy]

Can anyone remember their parents mentioning how special it was to get an orange for Christmas? I always thought this was such a neat story. Now we just take things like that for granted.

[Gillianren]

Since both of my parents grew up in California, no.

[Fazor]

Back in my day, the only Christmas present you got was a whipp'n and a stone to sharpen the log splitt'n axe with! And that was on a good year!

Ok, I'm not that old, and have never split logs in my life. But I felt this thread needed a good, "Back in my day, sonny!" story.

[Jeff Root]

The best-tasting orange I ever ate was also the largest, and the
easiest to peel. It was on Christmas day, and it had been given
to a friend (or her family) in a fruit gift basket. That was 1971.
A long time ago now, but not exactly ancient times. The 747 had
been flying for two years. I wonder how all those desireable
properties were combined into a single orange, and why I haven't
got a comparably delightful orange since then.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[Swift]

Can anyone remember their parents mentioning how special it was to get an orange for Christmas? I always thought this was such a neat story. Now we just take things like that for granted.
Sure, I certainly remember that.

[sarongsong]

Well, that would sure simplify this year's holiday gift-shopping! :)
I think it's the yin-yang thing:...To my plain Northern hut, in outside clouds and snow,
Brought safely for a thousand miles o'er land and tide,
Some three days since on their own soil live-sprouting,
Now here their sweetness through my room unfolding,
A bunch of orange buds by mail from Florida.
---Leaves of Grass

[KaiYeves]

I asked my mom for that last year, but she didn't get me it. I can only have three gifts, so this year, my two will be:
1) The Cosmos DVD set, 2005 updated edition.
2) An orange in my sneaker, just like in Greece when Yiayia (Grandmother) was a girl.

[The Supreme Canuck]

I wish things were still that simple. I always hate getting gifts from my mother - she loves to give, and I always feel guilty. Every year she wants a list (I'm 20 years old), so I've generally settled for asking for utilitarian things (this year I'm going for things like socks and an LSAT prep book).

I still feel bad, though.

[Maksutov]

[edit]2) An orange in my sneaker...Doesn't that make for uncomfortable walking?

[Gillianren]

I wish things were still that simple. I always hate getting gifts from my mother - she loves to give, and I always feel guilty. Every year she wants a list (I'm 20 years old), so I've generally settled for asking for utilitarian things (this year I'm going for things like socks and an LSAT prep book).

I still feel bad, though.

Why do you feel guilty? I love to give people things, too; I may not be able to afford very much, but I take a great deal of pleasure in picking the one perfect gift. (One of my friends is getting Newton's Principia!)

[Paul Beardsley]

Back in my day, the only Christmas present you got was a whipp'n and a stone to sharpen the log splitt'n axe with! And that was on a good year!
You had it easy. In my household, we had to make our own axe.

Serious orange story:

In 1988, when I was 25, my father and I decided to climb Ben Nevis, the highest mountain in the UK. When we were loading up our backpacks, there was an orange on the table of the kitchen we were in. He said, "Shall we take the orange?" I thought about how much space there was left in the packs, and decided it wasn't worth cramming it in, so I said no - we'd probably only want water and savoury things because it would be cold high up.

Hours later, as we were approaching the freezing peak of the mountain, I was going insane with thoughts of that orange. I really, really wanted it. Here I was, over a mile up in the sky, while that delicious orange was lying on the kitchen table so far away. If only I'd said, Yes, let's take it!

Then suddenly my father said, "Oh, I brought that orange after all. Shall we have it now?"

The feeling I had then was indescribable. And the half orange that I ate completely lived up to my expectations.

[sarongsong]

Doesn't that make for uncomfortable walking?Not only that, but there's some strain of 'new math' at play:...I can only have three gifts, so this year, my two will be... http://www.bautforum.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Moose]

(One of my friends is getting Newton's Principia!)

Ooh. Most of my aunts insist upon getting me gifts. (Welcome, but hardly necessary anymore, I'm 34 for goodness sake.) Knowing I'm a bookworm, they're pretty good about sticking to that category at least.

Unfortunately, I tend to get coffee table books (from the front displays of bookstores) that all-too-frequently lean on the wooish side of the scale.

Although one year I got a cat encyclopedia that was pure quality. Nice pics, too. Of course, last year, I got a cat behavior book that advocated "TT" aka therapeutic touch. Rather than wave my hands at my cats to sooth them at the vet, I prefer to actually touch them. They like it better that way too. My folks were at fault for that one, but they don't know how to tell the difference between good and bad.

I sincerely wish it would occur to them that some combination of obscure (in the pop-culture sense), nerdy, significant, and/or historical usually falls well within my "oh hey!" reaction range. Darwin's Origin of Species, for example, would be both thoughtful and spiffy.

I'd set up a wishlist if I thought it'd help.

[KaiYeves]

Doesn't that make for uncomfortable walking?
I was going to leave it under the tree and take it out on Christmas morning.
Not only that, but there's some strain of 'new math' at play:
Darn! I forgot to mention that I hadn't thought of a third thing yet.

[Kaptain K]

I'd set up a wishlist if I thought it'd help.
I tried that once (way back when I was in high school - 60s). In order too avoid getting "The best of Burl Ives" or "Caribbean Treasure Chest", I listed (some) rock albums that I would like to have. I thought that it was implied that they choose from the list, but no! The response was "You want all of that? Do you think we're made of money? I never made another list!

[Moose]

Exactly, Kaptain K. Exactly.

[Van Rijn]

Sometimes I've given oranges from the back yard to relatives as Christmas gifts, though I have to be careful now because of the possibility of transmitting pests.

My backyard oranges are always better than the things in the stores, and they get ripe about this time of year. Sadly, one of the two trees died for unknown reasons a couple years ago. Anyway, the yard oranges always got great reviews from relatives.

This year I wasn't watching a lemon bush (things have been hectic lately), which for unknown reasons went way overboard on lemon production, and fell over. Now I have about two wheelbarrows full of lemons . . .

[Kaptain K]

You know the old saying: When life hands you lemons, make lemonade!

[KaiYeves]

You know the old saying: When life hands you lemons, make lemonade!
And when life gets you down, drink lemonade!
That's what I do.

[ABR.]

Originally Posted by KaiYeves
[edit]2) An orange in my sneaker...

Doesn't that make for uncomfortable walking?

Perhaps they were grown in Dr. Scholl's orchard!

[The Supreme Canuck]

Why do you feel guilty?

I don't know - I just do. I really can't explain it.

[Jeff Root]

Supreme Canuck,

I understand perfectly how you feel. My comment is:
Don't feel that way! Okay, I don't know how to go about
changing one's emotional responses, but do it. All you have to
give back is love. I think it's easier than it sounds.

Twenty years old! What an age!!

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[Jeff Root]

Serious orange story ...

Then suddenly my father said, "Oh, I brought that orange after all.
Shall we have it now?"

The feeling I had then was indescribable.
Why was this dopey story so compelling?? I don't see anything in
the story or in your telling of it that warrants such a reaction, but
you really connected with some part of my brain. Does your stuff
get published? Can I ask for something by Paul Beardsley at
Barnes & Noble, or possibly Uncle Hugo's?

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[Whirlpool]

I've never heard of the Orange Story for Christmas here in my place , I guess it's an american story.

But.. I love oranges !.. and apples and grapes ....

Now I'm hungry :neutral:

[The Supreme Canuck]

Supreme Canuck,

I understand perfectly how you feel. My comment is:
Don't feel that way! Okay, I don't know how to go about
changing one's emotional responses, but do it. All you have to
give back is love. I think it's easier than it sounds.

Twenty years old! What an age!!

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

Oh, I know that it's irrational and stupid, but there it is. I have trouble accepting gifts - from anyone. I really don't know why. And while I've only been around for two decades, my mind is about four times as old. Odd how that works, isn't it?

[Whirlpool]

Oh, I know that it's irrational and stupid, but there it is. I have trouble accepting gifts - from anyone. I really don't know why. And while I've only been around for two decades, my mind is about four times as old. Odd how that works, isn't it?

Maybe you just look at yourself as a person who doesn't deserve to be given a gift. You feel awkward . :think:

Well, everyone mostly feels like that when receiving a gift whether it came from mom or a friend.
You just have to accept it and be glad , besides it is Freely given. :D

You are special!

;)

[sarongsong]

...I don't see anything in the story or in your telling of it that warrants such a reaction, but you really connected with some part of my brain...Highly reminescent of M.F.K. Fisher's passage on tangerines... :)...In the morning...sit in the window peeling tangerines, three or four...Separate each plump little pregnant crescent...You know those white pulpy strings that hold tangerines into their skins? Tear them off. Be careful. Take yesterday's paper...and spread it on top of the radiator...After you have put the pieces of tangerine on the paper on the hot radiator, it is best to forget about them...you go to a long noon dinner...On the radiator the sections of tangerines have grown even plumper, hot and full. You carry them to the window, pull it open, and leave them for a few minutes on the packed snow of the sill. They are ready...and I cannot tell you why they are so magical. Perhaps it is that little shell, thin as one layer of enamel on a Chinese bowl, that crackles so tinnily, so ultimately, under your teeth. Or the rush of cold pulp just after it. Or the perfume. I cannot tell. There must be someone, though, who understands what I mean...
The Art of Eating (http://www.powells.com/biblio?PID=27830&cgi=product&isbn=0020322208)

[Paul Beardsley]

Why was this dopey story so compelling?? I don't see anything in
the story or in your telling of it that warrants such a reaction, but
you really connected with some part of my brain.
Why, thank you sir!

I think it may be the fact that the story is dopey, yet the feeling was real enough.


Does your stuff
get published?
Yes.

Can I ask for something by Paul Beardsley at
Barnes & Noble, or possibly Uncle Hugo's?

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis
Probably not, as most of it is out of print (it's mainly short stories that appeared in a couple of anthologies or magazines from way back) but my novel (http://www.amazon.com/Suns-Caresh-Doctor-Who/dp/0563538589/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196836483&sr=8-1)is still sort-of available. (It really is by me, using my wife's maiden name as a pseudonum. On page 75 an alien speaks in her own language; if you take the first letter of each word she utters, it spells out a message!)

Meanwhile I am working on two original novels, England Dreams and Paradox Rider, but I'm also busy studying for a teaching qualification so they won't be finished any time soon. But I will be teaching creative writing next month.

[Paul Beardsley]

Highly reminescent of M.F.K. Fisher's passage on tangerines... :)

Thanks for the comparison!

[Noclevername]

I've never heard of it, maybe it's regional?

(Both my parents grew up in Rhode Island.)

[Neverfly]

I heard the story, only it was an apple not an orange.

The point of the story is to be grateful. Not pig-headed and selfish.

So it takes a universal tone- with many different versions out there.

At 29 years old, I have 'celebrated' a grand total of 6 christmasses, 2 New Years, my own birthday 4 times, 8 Thanksgivings and 8 Halloweens in my entire life. The majority of these were done in my Very early life; leaving 3 Christmasses, thanksgivings and halloweens prior to age 6. No birthdays as a kid though. Except when I was 12 in a foster home- they tried it once.

I used the birthdays later to make for a lazy day at work.

[The Supreme Canuck]

You are special!

Unique, just like everyone else, right? ;)

[KaiYeves]

I've never heard of the Orange Story for Christmas here in my place , I guess it's an american story.
My grandmother said that it was a common gift in Greece in her youth.
By the way, that was a wonderful story, Paul.
Nothing that ironic has happened to me.
But back in October somebody threw a baked potato down a stairwell in my school and the stairwell smelled like potatoes for the rest of the day.

[Paul Beardsley]

By the way, that was a wonderful story, Paul.
Thank you very much. I am pleasantly surprised at how well it has been received.
Nothing that ironic has happened to me.
But back in October somebody threw a baked potato down a stairwell in my school and the stairwell smelled like potatoes for the rest of the day.
That's quite evocative.

We've got a stone jar with a sealed lid for keeping sugar in. It actually says "Sugar" on it.

For a while we kept coffee in it because we had another sugar container and nothing to keep coffee in. But when we finished the coffee we decided to use it for sugar. We washed it first - really soaked it, several times. And we've kept sugar in it for more than a decade.

Yet every time we open it there's an overpowering smell of coffee.

[jamestox]

It's more than just a story. Oranges are still a token gift in my family - it stems from a time when such things were very rare and exotic in the winter and were regarded as a very special treat in the rural, mountainous areas in my parts.

[Swift]

I found this website (http://www.russianamericancompany.com/info/russianchristmas.htm) about Russian Christmas traditions. They mention the following (note item # 6):
Traditionally, the "Holy Supper" consists of 12 different foods, symbolic of the 12 Apostles. Although there was also some variation in the foods from place to place and village to village, the following is a good summary of what is typically served.

1) Mushroom soup with zaprashka (or Sauerkraut soup)
2) Lenten bread ("pagach")
3) Chopped garlic
4) Honey
5) Baked fish
6) Fresh Oranges, Figs and Dates
7) Nuts
8) Kidney beans (cooked slowly all day) seasoned with shredded potatoes, lots of garlic, salt and pepper to taste
9) Peas
10) Parsley Potatoes (boiled new potatoes with chopped parsley and margarine)
11) Bobal'ki (small biscuits combined with sauerkraut or poppy seed with honey)
12) Red Wine

[Donnie B.]

I don't know - I just do [feel guilty]. I really can't explain it.

This is one of the reasons that I completely fail to understand the appeal of gambling. On those rare occasions when I've tried it, I found nothing rewarding in it. If I lose the bet, well, I lost. If I win it, I feel vaguely guilty, like I've received something without earning it.

I guess I don't have to worry about that addiction, at least.

[The Supreme Canuck]

Funny. Gambling doesn't get the guilt response from me. Probably because I generally lose when I play poker...

[tofu]

I wish things were still that simple.

Same here. If you think back to a time when people couldn't have oranges every day, then getting one for Christmas would have been a real treat, and made them really happy. So here we are, in the modern world - we have everything. We are all basically rich. But there's one thing we've lost, it's not possible for us to experience the kind of happiness that comes from a rare and special treat.

I'm not really complaining here, just pointing this out. There's nothing that anyone can give me, and nothing that I can give to anyone I know, that would be like a once-a-year orange. I can get my nephews a new toy or a new x-box game, and they'll say "thanks uncle tofu" but it's not the same experience for them. They've got lots of toys. I honestly have everything I need. Nobody can buy something for me and have me say, "wow! I've really needed one of those!" If I'm in the mood for an orange, I buy one. If I'm in the mood for ice cream, I get it. There's nothing that's really special, so I can never have that simple experience.

In fact, I would even go so far as to say that the whole idea of gift-giving has lost a lot of its value. If you have a girlfriend, you have to give her something for Christmas, Valentine's day, Mother's day (possibly), her birthday, and your anniversary. So you have to buy potentially very expensive gifts about every two months. These aren't expressions of your love, they're just chores. What's she going to say, "gee, thanks, that's nice, just like the thing you got for me the month before last."

It's a strange consequence of the world we live in. Consumerism and Cynicism. Oh well.

[The Supreme Canuck]

I agree that the "mandatory" gift-giving occasions are basically devoid of meaning. But at other times, gift-giving still has meaning. A friend of mine recently went on a trip to Scotland. When he got back, he gave me a nice pewter flask that he had bought in Edinburgh - I thought that it was a very nice gesture, and was very thoughtful.

And you know what? Now that I think of it, I didn't feel guilty getting that gift. Odd.

[Whirlpool]

Because of these modern times, we forgot to see the value behind the gift and the person who gives it.

We can afford to buy those things that we are receiving , so the essence of it doesn't realize anymore.

A lady like me still prefers receiving flowers (cheap or not), and stuffs made and came from the heart of the giver , it doesn't necessarily to be expensive , but it's the effort that has given that counts.

I still believes in the common quote " It's the thought that counts".

[Whirlpool]

Unique, just like everyone else, right? ;)

Uhh, unique and like everyone else is quite different , I think.

Special, means the person who has given a gift is important and has value to the person who gave the gift.

[Gillianren]

Because of these modern times, we forgot to see the value behind the gift and the person who gives it.

Speak for yourself. I have one friend whose present traditionally costs me under $10; if I spend more than that, I have failed the game. However, his gift usually takes the most thought simply because part of the rules involves a low price. The whole rest of the year, whenever he and I happen to be in a store that sells DVDs together, we'll point out movies that fit the rules for his present. We've actually become closer friends because of a silly gift-giving tradition. I spent more than I'd intended on my best friend's present, but I saw the perfect book for her--and I ended up giving it to her early, because she needed to know that someone knew her well enough and loved her enough to pick that specific book, a biography of one of her favourite historical figures.

Gift-giving can actually be a sign of love in and of itself. I don't buy gifts for my loved ones because I have to. If I could afford to, I'd give them gifts year 'round, because I like giving people things. I don't have to. But when, for example, I saw a copy of Strunk & White in the free shelves at the library, I snagged it for a friend who wants to learn more grammar. I look forward to my friends' birthdays as much as I do my own, because it's fun to pick things out for them.

[Whirlpool]

Speak for yourself. I have one friend whose present traditionally costs me under $10; if I spend more than that, I have failed the game. However, his gift usually takes the most thought simply because part of the rules involves a low price. The whole rest of the year, whenever he and I happen to be in a store that sells DVDs together, we'll point out movies that fit the rules for his present. We've actually become closer friends because of a silly gift-giving tradition. I spent more than I'd intended on my best friend's present, but I saw the perfect book for her--and I ended up giving it to her early, because she needed to know that someone knew her well enough and loved her enough to pick that specific book, a biography of one of her favourite historical figures.

Gift-giving can actually be a sign of love in and of itself. I don't buy gifts for my loved ones because I have to. If I could afford to, I'd give them gifts year 'round, because I like giving people things. I don't have to. But when, for example, I saw a copy of Strunk & White in the free shelves at the library, I snagged it for a friend who wants to learn more grammar. I look forward to my friends' birthdays as much as I do my own, because it's fun to pick things out for them.

I am commenting to Mr. Tofu's post , not only for myself.

And the rest of your post is just what I meant in my post , it's the thought that counts whatever the cost is.

[Neverfly]

yes, I doubt that many can really argue the greed and also the insensitivity involved in the season. People trying to show eachother up- or outdo eachother etc...


Gillianren outlined a classic example of the true value behind the gift. But that doesn't mean that everyone does that- by any means.

[Delvo]

Before this thread, I had never heard of Christmas oranges. But I was familiar with Christmas apples. (And they're normally bigger than regular apples, in addition to being served in winter.)

[Gillianren]

I am commenting to Mr. Tofu's post , not only for myself.

And the rest of your post is just what I meant in my post , it's the thought that counts whatever the cost is.

Perhaps. But you said "we" forget to see the value behind gifts. And it's true that some people do, but not everyone does. It's just as much a platitude as saying that it's always the thought that counts. It's my birthday today, which means I was constantly getting "Christmas and birthday presents." And, frankly, the thought there always seemed to be "you're not important enough for us to distinguish between your birthday and a holiday where we're giving everyone else a present, even though we do for your sisters." There may have been genuine warm feelings behind the thing people gave me, but that thought wasn't enough.

[danscope]

Can anyone remember their parents mentioning how special it was to get an orange for Christmas? I always thought this was such a neat story. Now we just take things like that for granted.

Hi, I come from a family of 13 children. We did fine, as my father was an operating engineer...heavy equipment. At Christmas, we all hung a stocking
from the fire place mantle. It got stuffed, first, with a tangerine , followed by many things.
But the best was the navel oranges! We take two of these and grate the
orange part of the peel of both oranges, add it to a pound of cranberries.
Then slice off the white part and discard. Cut in half, and strip any white strings, then cut up and add to cranberries. 1 cup of sugar , 1/2 cup of orange juice and 3/4 cup of water. Bring this to just a boil and and cook slowly for maybe 10 minutes when the cranberries open . Don't walk away....
this stuff can boil over....so watch it, OK!! Add a cup of coarse chopped walnuts . Cool and serve. Even better next day. Keeps for a week
easily (refrigerated). Makes a great spread on a turkey sandwhich.
Use it in a cranberrie orange muffin.
This is one.....just one good use for an orange.

Best regards, Dan PS: Be carefull, hot sauce will burn, and it can stain clothes so......THINK.

[Noclevername]

Perhaps. But you said "we" forget to see the value behind gifts. And it's true that some people do, but not everyone does. It's just as much a platitude as saying that it's always the thought that counts. It's my birthday today, which means I was constantly getting "Christmas and birthday presents." And, frankly, the thought there always seemed to be "you're not important enough for us to distinguish between your birthday and a holiday where we're giving everyone else a present, even though we do for your sisters." There may have been genuine warm feelings behind the thing people gave me, but that thought wasn't enough.(bold mine)

Did you tell them about how this affected you, or did you assume they knew? I know from personal experiece (all too much) that "the thought" isn't always the thought you think it is, especially if it goes unsaid. If you'd expressed your frustration to the gift-givers about what you thought the one-gift situation meant, you might have gotten a response from those who truly had good intentions.

[The Supreme Canuck]

Uhh, unique and like everyone else is quite different , I think.

Special, means the person who has given a gift is important and has value to the person who gave the gift.

Oh, I know. I was just being a bother. :)

[Gillianren]

(bold mine)

Did you tell them about how this affected you, or did you assume they knew? I know from personal experiece (all too much) that "the thought" isn't always the thought you think it is, especially if it goes unsaid. If you'd expressed your frustration to the gift-givers about what you thought the one-gift situation meant, you might have gotten a response from those who truly had good intentions.

Well, since my Aunt Teresita once actually expressed astonishment that I'd had a birthday, I'd say the sentiment was pretty clear. My mother looked at me at one point and said, "Which one are you?" while filling out my birthday on a form. To be fair, my Grandmother Nelson usually gave me a small present for my sisters' birthdays (one 9 September, the other 10 September), and my Grandmother Dillon usually took me shopping for clothes for a birthday present. But a lot of the rest of the family made a much bigger fuss over my sisters.

[The Supreme Canuck]

My mother looked at me at one point and said, "Which one are you?" while filling out my birthday on a form.

Good God, Gillian.

[Neverfly]

Perhaps. But you said "we" forget to see the value behind gifts. And it's true that some people do, but not everyone does. It's just as much a platitude as saying that it's always the thought that counts. It's my birthday today, which means I was constantly getting "Christmas and birthday presents." And, frankly, the thought there always seemed to be "you're not important enough for us to distinguish between your birthday and a holiday where we're giving everyone else a present, even though we do for your sisters." There may have been genuine warm feelings behind the thing people gave me, but that thought wasn't enough.
Duh, meaning "we as society"...
Somehow even I had enough sense to know that there are some people who put thought into gifts and some people that are greedy and do not.

Part of the thought that counts, incidently, comes from the reciever of a gift as well, to show appreciation.
The Holiday season already slams folks bank accounts pretty hard in a short amount of time- add a few birthdays in there and it can really stress a person out.

[Noclevername]

Duh, meaning "we as society"...


I thought I was an individual.

[Van Rijn]

Before this thread, I had never heard of Christmas oranges. But I was familiar with Christmas apples. (And they're normally bigger than regular apples, in addition to being served in winter.)

I do get a kick out of walking out the back door this time of year and picking a ripe orange off the tree.

[jamestox]

Must be nice.

[Neverfly]

I thought I was an individual.

You know, it's really annoying and rude- Watching someones rather clear statements getting nitpicked to death by the overly sensitive. It detracts from the original statement.

"We" as society do a lot of things that perhaps many individuals are not personally responsible for, such as enforce stereotypes or behave in good ways or bad ways during the holiday season.

Hmmm... use your brain now- we all know who "we" refers to...


You commented in another post that you don't pay attention to strangers (I guess the lady who was chatting away blocking the door also doesn't pay attention to strangers and that's what makes them inconsiderate) and that your behavior depends on your medication cycles. An individual? Or a medication cycle? Now which is it?

[Noclevername]

You know, it's really annoying and rude- Watching someones rather clear statements getting nitpicked to death by the overly sensitive. It detracts from the original statement.

"We" as society do a lot of things that perhaps many individuals are not personally responsible for, such as enforce stereotypes or behave in good ways or bad ways during the holiday season.

Hmmm... use your brain now- we all know who "we" refers to...


You commented in another post that you don't pay attention to strangers (I guess the lady who was chatting away blocking the door also doesn't pay attention to strangers and that's what makes them inconsiderate) and that your behavior depends on your medication cycles. An individual? Or a medication cycle? Now which is it?

Insulting me is not a good way to convince me I'm being "annoying and rude". :mad:

[Neverfly]

Insulting me is not a good way to convince me I'm being "annoying and rude". :mad:

It isn't my job or my responsibility to explain it in a nice way, just to make yu happy and have warm fuzzies about yourself.
I'll just come out and say it.
It's up to you to deal with it.

Just as it's up to Gillianren- considering that it was her posts I was mostly addressing as she seemed to go far out of her way to dissassamble a clearly put thought.

You are both being pretty annoying hacking away at what the "we" referred to in a pretty clear post that we (WE being WE the readers of BAUT) had understood just fine in the first place.
Maybe you're unaware. So I let you know- after the third whack at the post annoyed me enough to do so.

Deal with it.

[Noclevername]

It isn't my job or my responsibility to explain it in a nice way.
I'll just come out and say it.
It's up to you to deal with it.

Just as it's up to Gillianren- considering that it was her posts I was mostly addressing as she seemed to go far out of her way to dissassamble a clearly put thought.

Well then quit complaining about how others express ideas. Courtesy is a two way street, if you don't use it then you have no right to demand it form anyone else.

[Neverfly]

Well then quit complaining about how others express ideas. Courtesy is a two way street, if you don't use it then you have no right to demand it form anyone else.

Uhh isn't that what you are doing? Complaining about how I'm expressing my ideas?:whistle:

Isn't that the annoying thing that made me comment on it (finally) now?

[Noclevername]

Uhh isn't that what you are doing? Complaining about how I'm expressing my ideas?:whistle:

Isn't that the annoying thing that made me comment on it (finally) now?

I was commenting about the idea that you expressed. Big difference.

[Neverfly]

I was commenting about the idea that you expressed. Big difference.

As was I. So done deal. Ideas expressed. Move along now...

[Noclevername]

Move along now...

Sure, soon as I get thet apology for your insults.

[Swift]

A little friendly advice... maybe you should both step away from the keyboard, or at least this thread, for a while.

[Neverfly]

The meaning behind the OP was as clear as the statements made within the thread.

A lot of us, in society, (referred to as "we") have forgotten the values behind the giving and recieving.

The original intent was lost in high priced marketability and folks scrapping with eachother in stores over beanie Babies and such.

This isn't news.

Yes, there are a lot of people that who have not forgotten, of course, and who continue to maintain the cheer that was originally intended.

Something as simple as an orange, which we can take for granted, can mean quite a lot to a person who understands value. That is why these stories exist and are told, passed on generation to generation- included in holiday themes and songs and films...

Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the individual, not society, to choose their own attitude in how they accept what is given or offered them and how to give to others- With dignity and grace.

The holidays of the season are age old- spanning many different religions, with one basic theme. To remind humanity that we are powerful enough to overcome our natural instinctive survival desires in order to reach out and give to others- selflessly.

[Neverfly]

A little friendly advice... maybe you should both step away from the keyboard, or at least this thread, for a while.

Eh, I've already PM'ed him a while ago on it. We seem to scrap fairly regularly, I'm beginning to think it's inevitable.

On a brighter note- it adds some 'bah humbug' to the fruitiness:p

[Noclevername]

Eh, I've already PM'ed him a while ago on it. We seem to scrap fairly regularly, I'm beginning to think it's inevitable.

I hope it's not.

[Whirlpool]

Perhaps. But you said "we" forget to see the value behind gifts. And it's true that some people do, but not everyone does. It's just as much a platitude as saying that it's always the thought that counts. It's my birthday today, which means I was constantly getting "Christmas and birthday presents." And, frankly, the thought there always seemed to be "you're not important enough for us to distinguish between your birthday and a holiday where we're giving everyone else a present, even though we do for your sisters." There may have been genuine warm feelings behind the thing people gave me, but that thought wasn't enough.


Oh ok . How should I address it ? Some, Not All forget to see the value behind the gifts.
Because WE are not perfect. One does have good memory and doesn't mixed up , the other is not; One is sensitive in giving gifts , the other isn't.

WE are all have different attitudes in dealing with this holiday situation and the gift-giving. And sometimes WE or should I say Some , Not All ,tend to be selfish and think of ourselves only.

That it hurts because they mixed-up the Christmas present from birthday present.

And with this hurt , WE or Some , Not All , dissolved the value , didn't recognize the Essence of why the person gave the gift. And in the end the gift is not appreciated.

I, personally, to understand things in my life , I put myself in the person's shoes and look at his viewpoint instead of mine, to see both sides.

[Whirlpool]

I thought I was an individual.

When you pick "word" and took it out from the "original statement", the "word" Loses it's meaning and the original idea, which in accordance to the whole statement.

And it's annoying.


:neutral:

[Noclevername]

When you pick "word" and took it out from the "original statement", the "word" Loses it's meaning and the original idea, which in accordance to the whole statement.

And it's annoying.


No, when I respond to a poster's stated opinion by presenting a different viewpoint, it's a discussion. If having a discussion annoys you, you're in the wrong place.

[Neverfly]

No, when I respond to a poster's stated opinion by presenting a different viewpoint, it's a discussion. If having a discussion annoys you, you're in the wrong place.

Do you have to argue everything?! You always have an argument- always have an excuse.

Wrong. You did NOT offer a different viewpoint or whatever- you used something out of context. You were wrong. Deal With It. Jeez...

[Whirlpool]

No, when I respond to a poster's stated opinion by presenting a different viewpoint, it's a discussion. If having a discussion annoys you, you're in the wrong place.

No. I'm not in a wrong place. You are.

You pick a word from the posters statement , and not the whole thought of the statement , it's annoying. You 're saying you respond by presenting a different viewpoint? So that means you are out of the topic in the first place if you want to start a discussion. Which gives the impression that you are just responding for the sake of "looking to argue" over something that is Out of Context.

[danscope]

Gentlemen, This is a season for putting your ego in your back pocket for awhile, and breathe a little easier in the presence of everyone.....for many good reasons. Smart people, allthough they can often find a reason to examine something, often find a good reason and opportunity to relax.
You may be right in your opinion....even right for yourself....but ....
There reigns a special light this time of year.
May that light shine within , and bring some peace to everyone.

Best regards, Dan

[Neverfly]

May that light shine within , and bring some peace to everyone.

Best regards, Dan

How did you know about my Glowworm/tapeworm hybrid?:shifty:

[sarongsong]

Gentlemen...:wall:
Say, did anyone ever figure out what, if anything, rhymes with orange?

[Noclevername]

Do you have to argue everything?! You always have an argument- always have an excuse. When someone accuses me of something incorrectly, yes, I respond.

Wrong. You did NOT offer a different viewpoint or whatever- you used something out of context. You were wrong. Deal With It. Jeez...

Just because you disagree with what I said does not make it the wrong thing to say. You stated "we as a society" do this, that and the other thing. This is incorrect. Society is a construct created after the fact to excuse individual behaviors. Individual responsibility means not taking the lazy way out and blaming your actions on what "society" does or expects; putting it down to society is just a fancier way of saying "everyone else was doing it too!"

This is not a "nitpick", it is the entire point of my statement. Yes, we all have an instinctive desire to fit in and be accepted, and one manifestation of that is to conform to our peers and try to please those around us by following their traditions and behaviors; this instinct evolved among and meant to function among small peer groups is often extended to "society", a group of mostly unmet random strangers. But instinctive behavior is not set in stone, it can be overcome.

[Gillianren]

Just as it's up to Gillianren- considering that it was her posts I was mostly addressing as she seemed to go far out of her way to dissassamble a clearly put thought.

Ah, but that's just it. I didn't think it was clearly put. I thought, in fact, that it was simplistic and hadn't been thought out well enough. I thought it was something said with the intent of making us think about the person who said it a certain way, not because it was really what the person was thinking. I thought, as I said, that it was a platitude. I have little patience for platitudes, so I went out of my way to force a little thought.

[Neverfly]

Bold mine:

Ah, but that's just it. I didn't think it was clearly put. I thought, in fact, that it was simplistic and hadn't been thought out well enough. I thought it was something said with the intent of making us think about the person who said it a certain way, not because it was really what the person was thinking. I thought, as I said, that it was a platitude. I have little patience for platitudes, so I went out of my way to force a little thought.

This absurdity that I just read is the most degrading, insulting, derogatory and ridiculous statement I have yet seen you make toward a person who is using english as a second language.
In fact, it didn't even make sense.

If I say "We (as people, humans, society) eat meat" then is that a platitude?
Am I trying to make you think of myself a certain way?
Because there are vegans and vegetarians out there?
I guess you can read minds huh?


We eat meat. We are selfish too. As individuals. As society. As people.
Whatever.

My grandmother used to say, "Never argue with a crazy person." She was right.


ETA: I won't respond to any further posts on this topic. It is impossible to talk to either one of you without getting into an argument.

Noclevername, physics is hard. The mathematics involved and the understanding in order to just explain Relativity takes years and years of study.
And that stuff is easy compared to social behavior and psychology.

There is still right from wrong. It isn't always "ok" when two people say two different things. There is no such thing as opinion. Right and wrong still exist. Perhaps at this time WE don't have the mathematics to quantify them in the social order. But they still exist. Your tired, lame excuse of hiding behind diversified opinions is irrelevent and frankly- the main reason why you cannot hold a meaningful discussion- because you always sink into it like a pitbull- you never let go and you think you are never wrong. You need to learn that you are sometimes wrong. No matter how much diversified opinionated psychobabble you try to hide behind.
If you want to whine to me about what I just posted- Respond to your PM's like an adult.

[Whirlpool]

Ah, but that's just it. I didn't think it was clearly put. I thought, in fact, that it was simplistic and hadn't been thought out well enough. I thought it was something said with the intent of making us think about the person who said it a certain way, not because it was really what the person was thinking. I thought, as I said, that it was a platitude. I have little patience for platitudes, so I went out of my way to force a little thought.

There is a common quote here in my country " Many dies with "I thought" statement".

You thought. That is your thinking. And yes Neverfly is right, that is insulting!

Just as I said in my earlier post , to understand things , I put my feet in the person shoes to see both sides. In your case, you just flat out judge that I'm not being realistic.

Thank you very much Gillianren.

[HenrikOlsen]

Ok, this has degenerated to the point where it stops.
Right now.
Thread closed.